Date   
UPDATE - Pictures and Video posted Kawasaki TA440

skyguynca
 

www.skyguynca.com

See more information along with NEW pictures and Video of the engine running, all were taken on July 26,2020  My website http://www.skyguynca.com Only $1800.00

www.skyguynca.com

I purchased this Kawasaki brand new complete W/electric starter from JBird with the Maginum Redrive with a 3 to 1 ratio. It is still complete, has been started once a month for 5 minutes to keep it clean and running with the seals getting lubricated. So it might have 10 to 15 hrs total run time at idle to just keep the seals good and it lubricated. I am selling the whole unit for $1800 OBO. Email me direct if interested skyguynca@...

Thanks
David M.
San Jose, CA

670 & 277 engine

Rich Gillen
 


I personally have found No Problems running Pump Gas, even with 10% Ethanol on any rubber parts, other than Pump Gas goes Bad in 6 months or less. Regular Fuel Line gets Brittle and Cracks over time. Seen many Sleds burn up from not changing there lines. When I bought my used T-Bird I about 12 Years ago, the In Tank Pickup Fuel Line was Standard Black Rubber Gas Line, and it had Swelled to about 3X at the fitting and was about 3/4 Cracked. It had been sitting for about 5 Years inside a nice Shed, the owner had died from Cancer, and the kid was afraid of Heights. So hadn't flown it. It had about 12 hrs on it since rebuilt. He didn't know much about it or what type of Fuel has dad used, but I assumed his dad was burning 10% ethanol in it. But I have never Tested Standard black rubber fuel line left in Gas for 5+ Years. I wish I had taken a Photo of it. I just replaced everything on the Fuel System with Tygon when I got it.

I usually Winterize all my Garden & Yard Tools at the end of Oct.. Usually with Fresh 91 Gas, with some Seafoam & Staybil. Many of my Yard tools won't even start with the Old Gas in the Middle of April, but they use too 10+ years ago, just to show how bad Pump Gas has become. You can throw it on Cement and it won't even light with a match. Now, I just drain it all and use it in my parts Cleaning Tank which sits out side.

This guy makes Good Rubber parts.

Pump Gas with ethanol 25 hrs used in a 2 Stroke. Many 2 Stroke Oils aren't comparable with Ethanol. So always check your 2 Sroke Oils Spec's.

Rich






1c. 
Re: 670 & 277 engine
From: Michael Quinn
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 05:02:45 PDT

Rich,

Another major problem that is overlooked are the additives that are put into today's pump gas (but not (yet) in av gas). 

In the past - carburetors were able to keep themselves much cleaner than fuel injectors (esp direct injection).  So they all started adding cleaners to the fuel and these cleaners are very harsh on rubber.  I second the Tygon fuel line - but watch out for any gaskets and bungs you might have that are rubber!

M.

Re: 670 & 277 engine

Michael Quinn
 

Rich, 

Another major problem that is overlooked are the additives that are put into today's pump gas (but not (yet) in av gas).  

In the past - carburetors were able to keep themselves much cleaner than fuel injectors (esp direct injection).  So they all started adding cleaners to the fuel and these cleaners are very harsh on rubber.  I second the Tygon fuel line - but watch out for any gaskets and bungs you might have that are rubber!

M.


From: Q-Performance@Q-List.groups.io <Q-Performance@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rich Gillen via groups.io <Armilite@...>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 9:30 PM
To: Q-Performance@Q-List.groups.io <Q-Performance@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-Performance] 670 & 277 engine
 

The 277 is 11.8cr, needs Fresh 91+ Octane!

The only thing Bad about 10% Ethanol Fuel is some Fiberglass Fuel Tanks don't like it, and some Fuel Line will get brittle. Tygon Fuel line is Best and has No problem with Ethanol. On my 5 Sleds I run 10% 91 ethanol for the last 12 Years, I have never change fuel pumps or lines. 4 are Oil Injection one is premix. For a Plane I would change them out every 3 Years, Fuel Line, Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter. If your flying year around you always have fresh Gas in it. If you put it away for the winter months at a time, burn out all the ethanol and put some 100LL in it, maybe enough to start it once a month to get some Oil on the internals. I usually put both Sea Foam and Staybil in the Gas for Winter Storage. If you don't want to start it once a month, using some Fogging Oil.

100LL has a 5 Year Shelf life and no Detonation problems.

86/87 is really only Safe for 9.0cr and Pump Gas goes Bad in 6 Months or less. Pump Gas can drop 2 Points in Octane in as little as 3 Weeks.

You can Blend 86/87 with 100LL for a Higher Octane. Once you mix Oil with Gas it also lowers the Octane. If you need 91 Octane, Blend for 93//94 Octane than if it drops in 3 weeks your still Safe. A Good rule is never Blend Gas for more than you will use per Month.

If you Blend Gas you can find plastic Barrels cheap on Craigslist. 4 weekends in a Month, say 8 days Flying a month, 5 Gallons x 8 = 40 Gallons. Barrels come in many Sizes. I say blend for 94 Octane, that way if it drops 2 Points, you still have 92 octane.

 For say 94 Octane using: 86 Low Octane Gallons 0.43 and 100LL for High Octane Gallons 0.57.

Fuel Blending Calc. A 55 Gallon Drum with a blend of 86/100LL mixed 50/50 = 93 Octane.

For 94 Octane using:

87 Low Octane Gallons

0.46   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

100LL High Octane Gallons

0.54   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

For 94 Octane using:

91 Low Octane Gallons

0.67   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

100LL High Octane Gallons

0.33   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

Today, you have to either adapt a Sled Pipe or make your own. There is Jaws, SLP, Speedwerk, AAen, that makes Tuned pipes, but they don't want anything to do with Airplanes, they sight Liability. There are others I haven't checkd them all. You might get by saying it's for a Mini AirBoat.

Building a Tuned Pipe for a 2 Stroke is basically the same except for Narrow or Wide Power band. Here is a good article on How to Build one.  https://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Tuned-pipe-for-a-2-stroke/

There is Free Smart Phone Software, or Cheap Tuned Pipe Software out there. Bottom Box you want 2.0 for a Wide Band. You need a Cone Program for making Bends.


This guy makes some nice cheap Software also, that I like best. Pipe Designer and has a nice Cone program.

another brand software.

If you have a Salvage Yard close by, you can buy the metal for Pennys on the Dollar or if your a Good Scounger you can find some on Garbage day.

A Digital Indicator like this is nice for measuring your Ports. I paid like $24 for mine.


Some New Idea's is breaking it in half with a Collar held together with Springs.

A Good Rule of Thumb for our max 6500rpm and using 11.5cr, is it takes 7cc to make 1hp. Figure +/- 1.0cr = 1hp. Going from 11.5cr to 9.5cr = -2.0hp. RPM used = Thrust Made. A 277 using an A/B Gear Drive, a 68" (2) blade is the largest you should use, if a (3) Blade 64" is the largest you should use. If you use the Power to Weight Formula, your MTOW lbs converted to KG, then divide your KG by 10 kg = kw needed, then convert kw to HP. Your plane is under Part 103, 254 lbs with a 277, so you have options to do some upgrades if you want, more HD Spars for more MTOW, Tundra Tires, better Suspension, etc. A 277UL Free Air is lighter than a Fan Cooled.

Rich


2b. 
Re: 670 & 277 engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 19:28:47 PDT

 

Rich,
I have the spars for the B model. I also have the 5 gallon tank. Where do I look to get a tuned pipe? If I can cruise at 4000 rpm (I flew one 30 years ago and don't remember), that is one gallon an hour. Is it better to use 91 octane with ethanol or 86 octane ethanol free?

Re: 670 & 277 engine

John Hoxie
 

Thanx Rich,
You're a plethora of info. The 277 will be put on my basic cage with the bungee suspension upgrade. The Zenoah will be put on the cage without suspension & my Kaw 340 is on my float bird. We can't have much fuel stored in the hangar. I'll get 4 gallons 91 octane at gas station in my 5 gal can and have the fuel truck bring 2 gallons 100LL @ $4.99 a gallon (current price).


On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:30 PM, Rich Gillen via groups.io
<Armilite@...> wrote:

The 277 is 11.8cr, needs Fresh 91+ Octane!

The only thing Bad about 10% Ethanol Fuel is some Fiberglass Fuel Tanks don't like it, and some Fuel Line will get brittle. Tygon Fuel line is Best and has No problem with Ethanol. On my 5 Sleds I run 10% 91 ethanol for the last 12 Years, I have never change fuel pumps or lines. 4 are Oil Injection one is premix. For a Plane I would change them out every 3 Years, Fuel Line, Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter. If your flying year around you always have fresh Gas in it. If you put it away for the winter months at a time, burn out all the ethanol and put some 100LL in it, maybe enough to start it once a month to get some Oil on the internals. I usually put both Sea Foam and Staybil in the Gas for Winter Storage. If you don't want to start it once a month, using some Fogging Oil.

100LL has a 5 Year Shelf life and no Detonation problems.

86/87 is really only Safe for 9.0cr and Pump Gas goes Bad in 6 Months or less. Pump Gas can drop 2 Points in Octane in as little as 3 Weeks.

You can Blend 86/87 with 100LL for a Higher Octane. Once you mix Oil with Gas it also lowers the Octane. If you need 91 Octane, Blend for 93//94 Octane than if it drops in 3 weeks your still Safe. A Good rule is never Blend Gas for more than you will use per Month.

If you Blend Gas you can find plastic Barrels cheap on Craigslist. 4 weekends in a Month, say 8 days Flying a month, 5 Gallons x 8 = 40 Gallons. Barrels come in many Sizes. I say blend for 94 Octane, that way if it drops 2 Points, you still have 92 octane.

 For say 94 Octane using: 86 Low Octane Gallons 0.43 and 100LL for High Octane Gallons 0.57.

Fuel Blending Calc. A 55 Gallon Drum with a blend of 86/100LL mixed 50/50 = 93 Octane.

For 94 Octane using:

87 Low Octane Gallons

0.46   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

100LL High Octane Gallons

0.54   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

For 94 Octane using:

91 Low Octane Gallons

0.67   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

100LL High Octane Gallons

0.33   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

Today, you have to either adapt a Sled Pipe or make your own. There is Jaws, SLP, Speedwerk, AAen, that makes Tuned pipes, but they don't want anything to do with Airplanes, they sight Liability. There are others I haven't checkd them all. You might get by saying it's for a Mini AirBoat.

Building a Tuned Pipe for a 2 Stroke is basically the same except for Narrow or Wide Power band. Here is a good article on How to Build one.  https://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Tuned-pipe-for-a-2-stroke/

There is Free Smart Phone Software, or Cheap Tuned Pipe Software out there. Bottom Box you want 2.0 for a Wide Band. You need a Cone Program for making Bends.


This guy makes some nice cheap Software also, that I like best. Pipe Designer and has a nice Cone program.

another brand software.

If you have a Salvage Yard close by, you can buy the metal for Pennys on the Dollar or if your a Good Scounger you can find some on Garbage day.

A Digital Indicator like this is nice for measuring your Ports. I paid like $24 for mine.


Some New Idea's is breaking it in half with a Collar held together with Springs.

A Good Rule of Thumb for our max 6500rpm and using 11.5cr, is it takes 7cc to make 1hp. Figure +/- 1.0cr = 1hp. Going from 11.5cr to 9.5cr = -2.0hp. RPM used = Thrust Made. A 277 using an A/B Gear Drive, a 68" (2) blade is the largest you should use, if a (3) Blade 64" is the largest you should use. If you use the Power to Weight Formula, your MTOW lbs converted to KG, then divide your KG by 10 kg = kw needed, then convert kw to HP. Your plane is under Part 103, 254 lbs with a 277, so you have options to do some upgrades if you want, more HD Spars for more MTOW, Tundra Tires, better Suspension, etc. A 277UL Free Air is lighter than a Fan Cooled.

Rich


2b. 
Re: 670 & 277 engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 19:28:47 PDT

 

Rich,
I have the spars for the B model. I also have the 5 gallon tank. Where do I look to get a tuned pipe? If I can cruise at 4000 rpm (I flew one 30 years ago and don't remember), that is one gallon an hour. Is it better to use 91 octane with ethanol or 86 octane ethanol free?

670 & 277 engine

Rich Gillen
 


The 277 is 11.8cr, needs Fresh 91+ Octane!

The only thing Bad about 10% Ethanol Fuel is some Fiberglass Fuel Tanks don't like it, and some Fuel Line will get brittle. Tygon Fuel line is Best and has No problem with Ethanol. On my 5 Sleds I run 10% 91 ethanol for the last 12 Years, I have never change fuel pumps or lines. 4 are Oil Injection one is premix. For a Plane I would change them out every 3 Years, Fuel Line, Fuel Pump, Fuel Filter. If your flying year around you always have fresh Gas in it. If you put it away for the winter months at a time, burn out all the ethanol and put some 100LL in it, maybe enough to start it once a month to get some Oil on the internals. I usually put both Sea Foam and Staybil in the Gas for Winter Storage. If you don't want to start it once a month, using some Fogging Oil.

100LL has a 5 Year Shelf life and no Detonation problems.

86/87 is really only Safe for 9.0cr and Pump Gas goes Bad in 6 Months or less. Pump Gas can drop 2 Points in Octane in as little as 3 Weeks.

You can Blend 86/87 with 100LL for a Higher Octane. Once you mix Oil with Gas it also lowers the Octane. If you need 91 Octane, Blend for 93//94 Octane than if it drops in 3 weeks your still Safe. A Good rule is never Blend Gas for more than you will use per Month.

If you Blend Gas you can find plastic Barrels cheap on Craigslist. 4 weekends in a Month, say 8 days Flying a month, 5 Gallons x 8 = 40 Gallons. Barrels come in many Sizes. I say blend for 94 Octane, that way if it drops 2 Points, you still have 92 octane.

 For say 94 Octane using: 86 Low Octane Gallons 0.43 and 100LL for High Octane Gallons 0.57.

Fuel Blending Calc. A 55 Gallon Drum with a blend of 86/100LL mixed 50/50 = 93 Octane.

For 94 Octane using:

87 Low Octane Gallons

0.46   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

100LL High Octane Gallons

0.54   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

For 94 Octane using:

91 Low Octane Gallons

0.67   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

100LL High Octane Gallons

0.33   Use this amount in your mixed fuel

Today, you have to either adapt a Sled Pipe or make your own. There is Jaws, SLP, Speedwerk, AAen, that makes Tuned pipes, but they don't want anything to do with Airplanes, they sight Liability. There are others I haven't checkd them all. You might get by saying it's for a Mini AirBoat.

Building a Tuned Pipe for a 2 Stroke is basically the same except for Narrow or Wide Power band. Here is a good article on How to Build one.  https://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Tuned-pipe-for-a-2-stroke/

There is Free Smart Phone Software, or Cheap Tuned Pipe Software out there. Bottom Box you want 2.0 for a Wide Band. You need a Cone Program for making Bends.


This guy makes some nice cheap Software also, that I like best. Pipe Designer and has a nice Cone program.

another brand software.

If you have a Salvage Yard close by, you can buy the metal for Pennys on the Dollar or if your a Good Scounger you can find some on Garbage day.

A Digital Indicator like this is nice for measuring your Ports. I paid like $24 for mine.


Some New Idea's is breaking it in half with a Collar held together with Springs.

A Good Rule of Thumb for our max 6500rpm and using 11.5cr, is it takes 7cc to make 1hp. Figure +/- 1.0cr = 1hp. Going from 11.5cr to 9.5cr = -2.0hp. RPM used = Thrust Made. A 277 using an A/B Gear Drive, a 68" (2) blade is the largest you should use, if a (3) Blade 64" is the largest you should use. If you use the Power to Weight Formula, your MTOW lbs converted to KG, then divide your KG by 10 kg = kw needed, then convert kw to HP. Your plane is under Part 103, 254 lbs with a 277, so you have options to do some upgrades if you want, more HD Spars for more MTOW, Tundra Tires, better Suspension, etc. A 277UL Free Air is lighter than a Fan Cooled.

Rich


2b. 
Re: 670 & 277 engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 19:28:47 PDT

 

Rich,
I have the spars for the B model. I also have the 5 gallon tank. Where do I look to get a tuned pipe? If I can cruise at 4000 rpm (I flew one 30 years ago and don't remember), that is one gallon an hour. Is it better to use 91 octane with ethanol or 86 octane ethanol free?

Re: 670 & 277 engine

John Hoxie
 

Rich,
I have the spars for the B model. I also have the 5 gallon tank. Where do I look to get a tuned pipe? If I can cruise at 4000 rpm (I flew one 30 years ago and don't remember), that is one gallon an hour. Is it better to use 91 octane with ethanol or 86 octane ethanol free?

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Thursday, May 7, 2020, 12:00:18 PM MDT, Rich Gillen via groups.io <armilite@...> wrote:



I found this one using a Zenoah G-25 20 hp Engine. MTOW 380 lbs = 172.3651 kg / 10 kg = 17.23651 kw needed = 23.11454 hp needed. With a 160 lb Empty Weight with the Zenoah G-25 20 hp, your 277 should give you the hp you need and still make Part 103. I would look at upgrading the Spars for more useful load, your going to want 5 Gallons. Wiki says,  Zenoah G-25 Producing 22 hp (16 kW) at 6600 rpm.

That Zenoah G-25 Producing 22hp@6600rpm would have made a nice engine for the Q1. 242cc/7cc = 34.5hp with a Tuned Pipe. Zenoah is a Japanese brand with a rich heritage going back over 100 years. Nowadays, Zenoah belongs to Swedish Husqvarna Group and continues to offer outdoor power products as well as hobby engines.


Cascade Kasperwing I-80


Specifications (180)[edit]

Data from Cliche and the Virtual Ultralight Museum[1][2]

General characteristics

  • Crew: one
  • Length: 10 ft (3.0 m)
  • Wingspan: 35 ft (11 m)
  • Height: 11 ft (3.4 m)
  • Wing area: 180 sq ft (17 m2)
  • Gross weight: 380 lb (172 kg)
  • Empty weight: 160 lb (73 kg)
  • Useful Load:  220 lbs
  • Fuel capacity: 2.5 U.S. gallons (9.5 L; 2.1 imp gal)
  • Powerplant: 1 × Zenoah G-25 single cylinder, two-stroke engine, 20 hp (15 kW)
  • Propellers: 2-bladed wooden

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 45 mph (72 km/h, 39 kn)
  • Cruise speed: 35 mph (56 km/h, 30 kn)
  • Stall speed: 18 mph (29 km/h, 16 kn) (at this speed enters into parachute descent mode)
  • Range: 85 mi (137 km, 74 nmi)
  • Service ceiling: 15,000 ft (4,600 m)
  • g limits: +7/-4
  • Maximum glide ratio: 10:1 at 23 mph (37 km/h)
  • Rate of climb: 800 ft/min (4.1 m/s)
  • ===============================================

Specifications (G-25B-1

General characteristics

  • Type: Single cylinder, two-stroke aircraft engine
  • Bore: 72 mm (2.8 in)
  • Stroke: 59.5 mm (2.3 in)
  • Displacement: 242 cc (14.78 cu in)
  • Length: 11.81 in (300.0 mm)
  • Width: 11.57 in (293.9 mm)
  • Height: 14.84 in (376.9 mm)
  • Dry weight: 51 lb (23.1 kg)

Components

Performance


670 & 277 engine

Rich Gillen
 


I found this one using a Zenoah G-25 20 hp Engine. MTOW 380 lbs = 172.3651 kg / 10 kg = 17.23651 kw needed = 23.11454 hp needed. With a 160 lb Empty Weight with the Zenoah G-25 20 hp, your 277 should give you the hp you need and still make Part 103. I would look at upgrading the Spars for more useful load, your going to want 5 Gallons. Wiki says,  Zenoah G-25 Producing 22 hp (16 kW) at 6600 rpm.

That Zenoah G-25 Producing 22hp@6600rpm would have made a nice engine for the Q1. 242cc/7cc = 34.5hp with a Tuned Pipe. Zenoah is a Japanese brand with a rich heritage going back over 100 years. Nowadays, Zenoah belongs to Swedish Husqvarna Group and continues to offer outdoor power products as well as hobby engines.


Cascade Kasperwing I-80


Specifications (180)[edit]

Data from Cliche and the Virtual Ultralight Museum[1][2]

General characteristics

  • Crew: one
  • Length: 10 ft (3.0 m)
  • Wingspan: 35 ft (11 m)
  • Height: 11 ft (3.4 m)
  • Wing area: 180 sq ft (17 m2)
  • Gross weight: 380 lb (172 kg)
  • Empty weight: 160 lb (73 kg)
  • Useful Load:  220 lbs
  • Fuel capacity: 2.5 U.S. gallons (9.5 L; 2.1 imp gal)
  • Powerplant: 1 × Zenoah G-25 single cylinder, two-stroke engine, 20 hp (15 kW)
  • Propellers: 2-bladed wooden

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 45 mph (72 km/h, 39 kn)
  • Cruise speed: 35 mph (56 km/h, 30 kn)
  • Stall speed: 18 mph (29 km/h, 16 kn) (at this speed enters into parachute descent mode)
  • Range: 85 mi (137 km, 74 nmi)
  • Service ceiling: 15,000 ft (4,600 m)
  • g limits: +7/-4
  • Maximum glide ratio: 10:1 at 23 mph (37 km/h)
  • Rate of climb: 800 ft/min (4.1 m/s)
  • ===============================================

Specifications (G-25B-1

General characteristics

  • Type: Single cylinder, two-stroke aircraft engine
  • Bore: 72 mm (2.8 in)
  • Stroke: 59.5 mm (2.3 in)
  • Displacement: 242 cc (14.78 cu in)
  • Length: 11.81 in (300.0 mm)
  • Width: 11.57 in (293.9 mm)
  • Height: 14.84 in (376.9 mm)
  • Dry weight: 51 lb (23.1 kg)

Components

Performance


670 & 277 Engine

Rich Gillen
 

Is this what you have? Which Model A, B, C? The last model made the 180 C model has a MTOW of 512 lbs = 232.2393 kg / 10 kg = 23.22393 kw needed = 31.1438 hp needed. It was 262 lbs with a Single Carb 503, and carried 7 Gallons, so it didn't make Part 103 with a 503. A purpose built 277UL, 377UL, 447UL or Kawasaki 340, 440, would have been better Engine Choices.

Rotax puts out a Fuel Consumption Graph in there different Manuals. As I showed you at 6000rpm where it actually made Max 25.4hp@6000rpm on the Dyno. It works out to (0.134) for gph for the 277. Each Plane & Pilot Weighs are different and has different Drag.

277UL using Rotax graph. All GPH Approximate's off Graph. Each Engine will be a little different.

6500rpm = 4.1 gph 20.5hp -2.8hp           
6250rpm = ?.? gph 23.3hp -2.1hp
-----------------------------------------------------
6000rpm = 3.4 gph 25.4hp  <--- At 6000rpm is where it made Max 25.4hp. 3.4 / 25.4 = (0.134).
5500rpm = 2.7 gph 23.2hp x 0.134 = 3.1088‬
5000rpm = 2.0 gph 17.9hp x 0.134 = 2.3986 (2.4) gph
4500rpm = 1.4 gph 12.3hp x 0.134 = 1.6482 (1.6) gph
4000rpm = 1.0 gph 10.1hp x 0.134 = 1.3534‬ (1.4) gph.

The Lazair Ultralight flew on 11 hp very Marginally. Was soon upgraded to 18.8hp, and people still wanted more hp. If you run the Lazair Numbers MTOW: 450 lbs = 204.1166 kg / 10 kg = 20.41166‬ kw needed = 27.37249 (27 hp) needed! The Solo 210 15hp each was the ideal setup. Today a pair of these Honda/Clone GX200's 4 Strokes Singles built for 15hp@5000rpm each is the ideal setup.

Stock Rotax 277UL Dyno Numbers with Rotax Exhaust. You will notice it was Avg +2.8hp per each +250rpm. It starts losing Power after 5500rpm. It's probably Rotax's Muffler is too Restrictive. More Prop rpm means more Thrust made. If your 277 Engine kept making +2.8hp per each +250rpm like it should at 6500rpm it would be making around 34hp!

So learn what you can do to make your Engine more efficient. Example: A 377UL is 35hp@6500rpm. The 377F/380F in a Sled is 36hp@7000rpm. A Stock 380HO is 48hp@7000rpm. A stock 380HO with an aftermarket Tuned Pipe Dynoed 57.26hp@7000rpm. It made 52-53hp@6500rpm. A 377F/380F/380HO is 368.4cc/7cc = 52.6hp@6500rpm!

Ecotrons EFI.

Magasquirt EFI Open Source, you can build your own ECU.

Cylinder & Case Porting alone can Gain you 10-15% more Power. This guy is Good and also does the Engine Coatings.

Using Rotax Spec's and if Ported:

277 26hp +10% = 28.6 hp

377 35hp +10% = 38.5 hp

447 40hp +10% = 44.0 hp

503 50hp +10% = 55.0 hp

582 65hp +10% = 71.5 hp

The #1 Single in the World today is the Simonini Victor 1 Super, 400cc, 54hp@6500rpm using 9.5cr, 34mm Carb, with a Tuned Pipe. 70 lbs Complete.  Same Engine just different Bore & Stroke, 362cc = 44hp, 382cc = 48hp. The 400cc/7cc = 57.1hp - 2hp = 55.1hp for the 9.5cr vs 11.5cr is about as Perfect as you can get.





1b. 
Re: 670 & 277 engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 17:12:09 PDT

 

Rich,
thanks for all the info. I didn't realize for Rotax you multiply the hp by .1 to get fuel burn. I'm hoping on my Kasperwing for slow cruise at 4000 RPM. It won't be flying for at least six weeks. Is that true for the 918 and such also?

Re: 670 Cost?

John Hoxie
 

Thanx Rich, Ron.

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Wednesday, May 6, 2020, 12:52:52 PM MDT, Rich Gillen via groups.io <armilite@...> wrote:



I don't know his current Price on his 670 Engine, plus the Accessories you need, like his Tuned Pipe, Water Cooling, Redrive. It Dynoed 92hp@6350rpm.

Ron Davis
faircopters@...
Mobile 239-572-0021
940 9th Street sw
Naples, FL 34117-2215
USA



1d. 
Re: BMW 1200cc engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 15:14:19 PDT

How much $ is Rotax Rick's 670? I was saying Many Revmasters need rebuilds/ upgrades at 300 hours.

Re: 670 & 277 engine

John Hoxie
 

Rich,
thanks for all the info. I didn't realize for Rotax you multiply the hp by .1 to get fuel burn. I'm hoping on my Kasperwing for slow cruise at 4000 RPM. It won't be flying for at least six weeks. Is that true for the 918 and such also?

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Wednesday, May 6, 2020, 12:44:33 PM MDT, Rich Gillen via groups.io <armilite@...> wrote:


I have never heard of a Polaris Piston being used in a 670, do you have a Part Number? I have heard of the 720 (81mm x 70mm) 721.7cc . I have a pair of 720 Cylinders on the shelf that needs (1) New Sleeve, has a hairline crack. There is a guy on eBay selling the 82mm Sleeves and Pistons for the 670. 

NEW NOS Cylinder Sleeves 82.00mm Bore. These select sleeves are used to turn your 670cc into a big bore using these sleeves and running a 82mm-85mm piston. A lot more and impressive power gains. Please remember std bore 670cc uses a 78mm piston, these sleeves are capable of an 85mm piston. These are for the rotax 670cc engine from 1994-1999.

another 670 BB Sleeve on eBay.

Rotax 277 Manual. Green Download Button at top of page.

Ultralight News 277 Info.

277 Info

I READ Once, you can take your HP@rpm x .1 to figure fuel burn, but I think it's a little higher.

670 92hp@6350rpm. ----> 92 x .1 = 9.2 gph

618UL 73.4hp@6750rpm. 73.4 x .1 = 7.34 gph

582UL 65hp@6500rpm     65 x .1 = 6.5 gph

503UL 50hp@6500rpm     50 x .1 = 5.0 gph

447UL 40hp@6500rpm     40 x .1 = 4.0 gph

377UL 35hp@6500rpm     35 x .1 = 3.5 gph

277UL 26hp@6250rpm     26 x .1 = 2.6 gph

Your 277UL is (72mm x 66mm) 268.4cc. They have rated it at 26hp@6250rpm and 28hp@6400rpm with Rotax's Muffler. A Company called R&D Aero in the 90's who built Tuned Pipes, Dynoed the Stock 26hp 277UL and it made max 25.4hp@6000rpm. Here is the comparion Stock vs R&D Aeros Tuned Pipe which is very Mild.

The 277UL/277F uses a Head/Cylinder (4) Bolt Pattern based on a 100mm Bolt Circle. The 503UL/503F uses the same bolt pattern. The 521 to 670 also uses the 100mm Bolt Circle but use (6) Bolts instead of (4). So All of these can be Big Bored to 82mm. Finding a Piston to work is the Hard part. I have attached a Rotax graph chart for fuel use.

277UL using Rotax graph.
6500rpm = 4.1 gph All GPH Approximate's off Graph.
6000rpm = 3.4 gph At 6000rpm is where it made Max 25.4hp. 3.4 / 25.4 = 0.134.
5500rpm = 2.7 gph
5000rpm = 2.0 gph
4500rpm = 1.4 gph
4000rpm = 1.0 gph

If you look at the comparison of the Stock 277UL and 277UL with R&D's Tuned Pipe it made 30.5hp@6250rpm. If you look close at the Stock 277UL you will see where it starts to lose hp after 5500rpm. Is the exhaust to Restrictive or is the Carb to Small, or both!

A 277 Big Bore (82mm x 66mm) 348.6cc!




1c. 
Re: BMW 1200cc engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 15:11:58 PDT

I read that somone put in Polaris pistons in a 670 to make it a 720. Do you have any info on that? Do you have a fuel burn chart comparing the Rotax engines. I have a 277 for one of my ultralights I am restoring. Is there a way to get a manual on that?

670 Cost?

Rich Gillen
 


I don't know his current Price on his 670 Engine, plus the Accessories you need, like his Tuned Pipe, Water Cooling, Redrive. It Dynoed 92hp@6350rpm.

Ron Davis
faircopters@...
Mobile 239-572-0021
940 9th Street sw
Naples, FL 34117-2215
USA



1d. 
Re: BMW 1200cc engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 15:14:19 PDT

How much $ is Rotax Rick's 670? I was saying Many Revmasters need rebuilds/ upgrades at 300 hours.

670 & 277 engine

Rich Gillen
 

I have never heard of a Polaris Piston being used in a 670, do you have a Part Number? I have heard of the 720 (81mm x 70mm) 721.7cc . I have a pair of 720 Cylinders on the shelf that needs (1) New Sleeve, has a hairline crack. There is a guy on eBay selling the 82mm Sleeves and Pistons for the 670. 

NEW NOS Cylinder Sleeves 82.00mm Bore. These select sleeves are used to turn your 670cc into a big bore using these sleeves and running a 82mm-85mm piston. A lot more and impressive power gains. Please remember std bore 670cc uses a 78mm piston, these sleeves are capable of an 85mm piston. These are for the rotax 670cc engine from 1994-1999.

another 670 BB Sleeve on eBay.

Rotax 277 Manual. Green Download Button at top of page.

Ultralight News 277 Info.

277 Info

I READ Once, you can take your HP@rpm x .1 to figure fuel burn, but I think it's a little higher.

670 92hp@6350rpm. ----> 92 x .1 = 9.2 gph

618UL 73.4hp@6750rpm. 73.4 x .1 = 7.34 gph

582UL 65hp@6500rpm     65 x .1 = 6.5 gph

503UL 50hp@6500rpm     50 x .1 = 5.0 gph

447UL 40hp@6500rpm     40 x .1 = 4.0 gph

377UL 35hp@6500rpm     35 x .1 = 3.5 gph

277UL 26hp@6250rpm     26 x .1 = 2.6 gph

Your 277UL is (72mm x 66mm) 268.4cc. They have rated it at 26hp@6250rpm and 28hp@6400rpm with Rotax's Muffler. A Company called R&D Aero in the 90's who built Tuned Pipes, Dynoed the Stock 26hp 277UL and it made max 25.4hp@6000rpm. Here is the comparion Stock vs R&D Aeros Tuned Pipe which is very Mild.

The 277UL/277F uses a Head/Cylinder (4) Bolt Pattern based on a 100mm Bolt Circle. The 503UL/503F uses the same bolt pattern. The 521 to 670 also uses the 100mm Bolt Circle but use (6) Bolts instead of (4). So All of these can be Big Bored to 82mm. Finding a Piston to work is the Hard part. I have attached a Rotax graph chart for fuel use.

277UL using Rotax graph.
6500rpm = 4.1 gph All GPH Approximate's off Graph.
6000rpm = 3.4 gph At 6000rpm is where it made Max 25.4hp. 3.4 / 25.4 = 0.134.
5500rpm = 2.7 gph
5000rpm = 2.0 gph
4500rpm = 1.4 gph
4000rpm = 1.0 gph

If you look at the comparison of the Stock 277UL and 277UL with R&D's Tuned Pipe it made 30.5hp@6250rpm. If you look close at the Stock 277UL you will see where it starts to lose hp after 5500rpm. Is the exhaust to Restrictive or is the Carb to Small, or both!

A 277 Big Bore (82mm x 66mm) 348.6cc!




1c. 
Re: BMW 1200cc engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 15:11:58 PDT

I read that somone put in Polaris pistons in a 670 to make it a 720. Do you have any info on that? Do you have a fuel burn chart comparing the Rotax engines. I have a 277 for one of my ultralights I am restoring. Is there a way to get a manual on that?

Re: BMW 1200cc engine

John Hoxie
 

How much $ is Rotax Rick's 670? I was saying Many Revmasters need rebuilds/ upgrades at 300 hours.


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Rich Gillen via groups.io
<Armilite@...> wrote:

John, the 582UL is rated 65hp@6500rpm, the 618UL was rated 73.4hp@6750rpm. The 670 in a Sled is 115.7hp@7750rpm. Derated for Airplane use there 92-95hp! With Rotax Ricks Exhaust it's 92hp@6350rpm! The 670 is around 9 lbs heavier than than a 582UL. Rotax Rick has a 450hr TBO on his Engines. He totally Rebuilds the Engine with all New parts.

The Rotax 532UL/521 Skidoo, 582UL/580/582/583 Skidoo, 618UL/617 Skidoo, and the 670 are all from the same Family of engines, just different Bores & Strokes used. The 618UL/617 and the 670 have RAVE Valves is all.

Reliability of any Engine is the Person Flying it, Maintaining it, and who Built it. There are 503's and 582's out there with over 1300hrs and still Flying with just a Decarbon every 200 hrs. So who ever told you there shot after 300 hrs is a liar. Rotax's #1 Failure is Detonation. Easy to solve, just always use Fresh 91+ Octane, or better 100LL is best. Most Airports only carry 100LL and Jet Fuel. A 670 is (78mm x 70mm) 669.2cc and can be Big Bored to (82.5mm x 70mm) 748.6cc. At 6500rpm and using 11.5cr with a Good Wide Band Tuned Pipe it takes 7cc to make 1hp. 669.2cc/7cc = 95.6 hp and a 748.6cc/7cc = 106.9 hp. Things rick does to his Engines is use Ceramic Top Coated Pistons and 40:1 Oil, and uses Amsoil Interceptor Oil. With the larger CC if you don't need the extra hp, you can turn it even lower rpm and still make same 92hp!

I would say 85% of all Rotax Engine Failures is attributed to Detonation.
10% from Oil Injection Failure.
5% from People using a Bad 2 Stroke Oil with a Low Flash Point. Not all 2 Stroke Oils Burn Clean either.




1b. 
Re: BMW 1200cc engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 14:00:36 PDT

The 670 with it's lighter weight is appealing. It is de-rated for aircraft use to 61 h.p. though. People fly to a new engine usually because there's some thing(s) about the current engine they're flying or in their project that they don't like (reports after kit purchase). Sometimes there are options $ & time to overcome those unliked things. I don't mind a bigger engine for time to climb but I want assurance there is still endurance - similar range. A heavier engine is a heavier plane, which usually means more fuel consumption. My 2100DQ I don't like magnetos, adjusting valves & most report the case is shot after 300 hours. I see 2 coins - the 2 sides of one coin are reliability & maintenance time the 2nd is performance & efficiency.

Re: BMW 1200cc engine

John Hoxie
 

I read that somone put in Polaris pistons in a 670 to make it a 720. Do you have any info on that? Do you have a fuel burn chart comparing the Rotax engines. I have a 277 for one of my ultralights I am restoring. Is there a way to get a manual on that?


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Rich Gillen via groups.io
<Armilite@...> wrote:

John, the 582UL is rated 65hp@6500rpm, the 618UL was rated 73.4hp@6750rpm. The 670 in a Sled is 115.7hp@7750rpm. Derated for Airplane use there 92-95hp! With Rotax Ricks Exhaust it's 92hp@6350rpm! The 670 is around 9 lbs heavier than than a 582UL. Rotax Rick has a 450hr TBO on his Engines. He totally Rebuilds the Engine with all New parts.

The Rotax 532UL/521 Skidoo, 582UL/580/582/583 Skidoo, 618UL/617 Skidoo, and the 670 are all from the same Family of engines, just different Bores & Strokes used. The 618UL/617 and the 670 have RAVE Valves is all.

Reliability of any Engine is the Person Flying it, Maintaining it, and who Built it. There are 503's and 582's out there with over 1300hrs and still Flying with just a Decarbon every 200 hrs. So who ever told you there shot after 300 hrs is a liar. Rotax's #1 Failure is Detonation. Easy to solve, just always use Fresh 91+ Octane, or better 100LL is best. Most Airports only carry 100LL and Jet Fuel. A 670 is (78mm x 70mm) 669.2cc and can be Big Bored to (82.5mm x 70mm) 748.6cc. At 6500rpm and using 11.5cr with a Good Wide Band Tuned Pipe it takes 7cc to make 1hp. 669.2cc/7cc = 95.6 hp and a 748.6cc/7cc = 106.9 hp. Things rick does to his Engines is use Ceramic Top Coated Pistons and 40:1 Oil, and uses Amsoil Interceptor Oil. With the larger CC if you don't need the extra hp, you can turn it even lower rpm and still make same 92hp!

I would say 85% of all Rotax Engine Failures is attributed to Detonation.
10% from Oil Injection Failure.
5% from People using a Bad 2 Stroke Oil with a Low Flash Point. Not all 2 Stroke Oils Burn Clean either.




1b. 
Re: BMW 1200cc engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 14:00:36 PDT

The 670 with it's lighter weight is appealing. It is de-rated for aircraft use to 61 h.p. though. People fly to a new engine usually because there's some thing(s) about the current engine they're flying or in their project that they don't like (reports after kit purchase). Sometimes there are options $ & time to overcome those unliked things. I don't mind a bigger engine for time to climb but I want assurance there is still endurance - similar range. A heavier engine is a heavier plane, which usually means more fuel consumption. My 2100DQ I don't like magnetos, adjusting valves & most report the case is shot after 300 hours. I see 2 coins - the 2 sides of one coin are reliability & maintenance time the 2nd is performance & efficiency.

BMW 1200cc engine

Rich Gillen
 


For MTOW of 1100 lbs = 498.9516 kg / 10 kg = 49.89516 kw needed = 66.91051 (67 hp) needed! Rotax UL Engines don't really use a Tuned Pipe it's a Tuned Muffler Exhaust. It's like a Mega Phone Open Header with a Muffler.

Like a:
Skidoo 470
462UL is (69.5mm x 61mm) 463.0cc rated 52hp@6500rpm. 463cc/7cc = 66.1hp@6500rpm with a Tuned Pipe!

Skidoo 521
532UL is (72mm x 64mm) 521.3cc, rated 64hp@6500rpm. 521.3cc/7cc = 74.7hp@6500rpm with a Tuned Pipe!

Skidoo 580/582/583
582UL is (76mm x 64mm) 580.9cc, rated 65hp@6500rpm. 580.9cc/7cc = 82.9hp@6500rpm  with a Tuned Pipe!

Skidoo 617
618UL is (76mm x 68mm) 617.2cc, rated 73.4hp@6750rpm. 617.2cc/7cc = 88.1hp@6500rpm  with a Tuned Pipe!

Skidoo 670 is (78mm x 70mm) 669.2cc/7cc = 95.6hp@6500rpm!



1c. 
Re: BMW 1200cc engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 14:02:05 PDT

My Q2 gross weight will hopefully be 1100 lbs with the LS-1 forward wing.

BMW 1200cc engine

Rich Gillen
 


John, the 582UL is rated 65hp@6500rpm, the 618UL was rated 73.4hp@6750rpm. The 670 in a Sled is 115.7hp@7750rpm. Derated for Airplane use there 92-95hp! With Rotax Ricks Exhaust it's 92hp@6350rpm! The 670 is around 9 lbs heavier than than a 582UL. Rotax Rick has a 450hr TBO on his Engines. He totally Rebuilds the Engine with all New parts.

The Rotax 532UL/521 Skidoo, 582UL/580/582/583 Skidoo, 618UL/617 Skidoo, and the 670 are all from the same Family of engines, just different Bores & Strokes used. The 618UL/617 and the 670 have RAVE Valves is all.

Reliability of any Engine is the Person Flying it, Maintaining it, and who Built it. There are 503's and 582's out there with over 1300hrs and still Flying with just a Decarbon every 200 hrs. So who ever told you there shot after 300 hrs is a liar. Rotax's #1 Failure is Detonation. Easy to solve, just always use Fresh 91+ Octane, or better 100LL is best. Most Airports only carry 100LL and Jet Fuel. A 670 is (78mm x 70mm) 669.2cc and can be Big Bored to (82.5mm x 70mm) 748.6cc. At 6500rpm and using 11.5cr with a Good Wide Band Tuned Pipe it takes 7cc to make 1hp. 669.2cc/7cc = 95.6 hp and a 748.6cc/7cc = 106.9 hp. Things rick does to his Engines is use Ceramic Top Coated Pistons and 40:1 Oil, and uses Amsoil Interceptor Oil. With the larger CC if you don't need the extra hp, you can turn it even lower rpm and still make same 92hp!

I would say 85% of all Rotax Engine Failures is attributed to Detonation.
10% from Oil Injection Failure.
5% from People using a Bad 2 Stroke Oil with a Low Flash Point. Not all 2 Stroke Oils Burn Clean either.




1b. 
Re: BMW 1200cc engine
From: John Hoxie
Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 14:00:36 PDT

The 670 with it's lighter weight is appealing. It is de-rated for aircraft use to 61 h.p. though. People fly to a new engine usually because there's some thing(s) about the current engine they're flying or in their project that they don't like (reports after kit purchase). Sometimes there are options $ & time to overcome those unliked things. I don't mind a bigger engine for time to climb but I want assurance there is still endurance - similar range. A heavier engine is a heavier plane, which usually means more fuel consumption. My 2100DQ I don't like magnetos, adjusting valves & most report the case is shot after 300 hours. I see 2 coins - the 2 sides of one coin are reliability & maintenance time the 2nd is performance & efficiency.

Re: BMW 1200cc engine

John Hoxie
 

My Q2 gross weight will hopefully be 1100 lbs with the LS-1 forward wing.


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:00 PM, John Hoxie via groups.io
<hoxdesigns@...> wrote:
The 670 with it's lighter weight is appealing. It is de-rated for aircraft use to 61 h.p. though. People fly to a new engine usually because there's some thing(s) about the current engine they're flying or in their project that they don't like (reports after kit purchase). Sometimes there are options $ & time to overcome those unliked things. I don't mind a bigger engine for time to climb but I want assurance there is still endurance - similar range. A heavier engine is a heavier plane, which usually means more fuel consumption. My 2100DQ I don't like magnetos, adjusting valves & most report the case is shot after 300 hours. I see 2 coins - the 2 sides of one coin are reliability & maintenance time the 2nd is performance & efficiency.


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:24 AM, Rich Gillen via groups.io
<Armilite@...> wrote:

I see you guys always talking about different Engines and Hp, but what's more Important is the Length & Number of Prop Blades used and the rpm you turn them.

Q2

1000 lbs = 453.5924 kg / 10 kg = 45.35924 kw needed = 60.82774 hp needed.

Most People have Upgraded to an O-200 (100hp @ 2750rpm).

So what is the Max Length of Prop that can be used? The Length and Number of Blades and rpm used dictates thrust made!

So is it the added hp, or the Wrong Prop or Reduction Ratio being used or both?

Like a Rotax B Gear Drive is limited to a (2) Blade 68", or (3) Blade 64". It comes in 2.0, 2.24, 2.58 ratios. Industry Standard for 2 Strokes is 6500rpm.

For comparison will use the same 68" Prop Length and Number of Blades (2).

Revmaster 2100-DQ converted auto-engine, 64 hp (47.7 kW) at 3,200 rpm. Direct Drive. Dry weight: ??? lb.
A (2) Blade 68" x 15 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 550.93 lbs needs 64.912 hp.
A (2) Blade 68" x 14 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 550.93 lbs needs 60.584 hp.

O-200 (100hp @ 2750rpm) Direct Drive. Dry weight: 170.18 lb (77.19 kg) dry, without accessories.
A (2) Blade 68" x 37 Pitched for -100rpm = 2650rpm = 402.59 lbs needs 100.020 hp.
A (2) Blade 68" x 36 Pitched for -100rpm = 2650rpm = 402.59 lbs needs 97.317hp.

Rotax Rick 670 (92hp @ 6350rpm). Using a 2.0 Gear Box. 6350rpm/2 = 3175rpm. Dry weight: (119 lb) with electric starter, carburetors, fuel pump, air filters and reduction gear.
A (2) Blade 68" x 22 Pitched for -100rpm = 3075rpm = 542.08 lbs needs 92.919 hp.
A (2) Blade 68" x 21 Pitched for -100rpm = 3075rpm = 542.08 lbs needs 88.696 hp.

A (3) Blade 64" x 20 Pitched for -100rpm = 3075rpm = 595.49 lbs needs 92.795 hp.

So what have we learned. Could we turn all of these Engines for the same Prop 3100rpm, for same Thrust Numbers, Yes. The difference would be hp/Torque made which translates into shorter takeoff distance, and time to reach Altitude.

Revmaster 2100-DQ converted auto-engine, 64 hp (47.7 kW) at 3,200 rpm. Direct Drive. Dry weight: ??? lb.
A (3) Blade 68" x 11 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 771.30 lbs needs 66.643 hp.
A (3) Blade 68" x 10 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 771.30 lbs needs 60.584 hp.

Re: BMW 1200cc engine

John Hoxie
 

The 670 with it's lighter weight is appealing. It is de-rated for aircraft use to 61 h.p. though. People fly to a new engine usually because there's some thing(s) about the current engine they're flying or in their project that they don't like (reports after kit purchase). Sometimes there are options $ & time to overcome those unliked things. I don't mind a bigger engine for time to climb but I want assurance there is still endurance - similar range. A heavier engine is a heavier plane, which usually means more fuel consumption. My 2100DQ I don't like magnetos, adjusting valves & most report the case is shot after 300 hours. I see 2 coins - the 2 sides of one coin are reliability & maintenance time the 2nd is performance & efficiency.


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:24 AM, Rich Gillen via groups.io
<Armilite@...> wrote:

I see you guys always talking about different Engines and Hp, but what's more Important is the Length & Number of Prop Blades used and the rpm you turn them.

Q2

1000 lbs = 453.5924 kg / 10 kg = 45.35924 kw needed = 60.82774 hp needed.

Most People have Upgraded to an O-200 (100hp @ 2750rpm).

So what is the Max Length of Prop that can be used? The Length and Number of Blades and rpm used dictates thrust made!

So is it the added hp, or the Wrong Prop or Reduction Ratio being used or both?

Like a Rotax B Gear Drive is limited to a (2) Blade 68", or (3) Blade 64". It comes in 2.0, 2.24, 2.58 ratios. Industry Standard for 2 Strokes is 6500rpm.

For comparison will use the same 68" Prop Length and Number of Blades (2).

Revmaster 2100-DQ converted auto-engine, 64 hp (47.7 kW) at 3,200 rpm. Direct Drive. Dry weight: ??? lb.
A (2) Blade 68" x 15 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 550.93 lbs needs 64.912 hp.
A (2) Blade 68" x 14 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 550.93 lbs needs 60.584 hp.

O-200 (100hp @ 2750rpm) Direct Drive. Dry weight: 170.18 lb (77.19 kg) dry, without accessories.
A (2) Blade 68" x 37 Pitched for -100rpm = 2650rpm = 402.59 lbs needs 100.020 hp.
A (2) Blade 68" x 36 Pitched for -100rpm = 2650rpm = 402.59 lbs needs 97.317hp.

Rotax Rick 670 (92hp @ 6350rpm). Using a 2.0 Gear Box. 6350rpm/2 = 3175rpm. Dry weight: (119 lb) with electric starter, carburetors, fuel pump, air filters and reduction gear.
A (2) Blade 68" x 22 Pitched for -100rpm = 3075rpm = 542.08 lbs needs 92.919 hp.
A (2) Blade 68" x 21 Pitched for -100rpm = 3075rpm = 542.08 lbs needs 88.696 hp.

A (3) Blade 64" x 20 Pitched for -100rpm = 3075rpm = 595.49 lbs needs 92.795 hp.

So what have we learned. Could we turn all of these Engines for the same Prop 3100rpm, for same Thrust Numbers, Yes. The difference would be hp/Torque made which translates into shorter takeoff distance, and time to reach Altitude.

Revmaster 2100-DQ converted auto-engine, 64 hp (47.7 kW) at 3,200 rpm. Direct Drive. Dry weight: ??? lb.
A (3) Blade 68" x 11 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 771.30 lbs needs 66.643 hp.
A (3) Blade 68" x 10 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 771.30 lbs needs 60.584 hp.

BMW 1200cc engine

Rich Gillen
 


I see you guys always talking about different Engines and Hp, but what's more Important is the Length & Number of Prop Blades used and the rpm you turn them.

Q2

1000 lbs = 453.5924 kg / 10 kg = 45.35924 kw needed = 60.82774 hp needed.

Most People have Upgraded to an O-200 (100hp @ 2750rpm).

So what is the Max Length of Prop that can be used? The Length and Number of Blades and rpm used dictates thrust made!

So is it the added hp, or the Wrong Prop or Reduction Ratio being used or both?

Like a Rotax B Gear Drive is limited to a (2) Blade 68", or (3) Blade 64". It comes in 2.0, 2.24, 2.58 ratios. Industry Standard for 2 Strokes is 6500rpm.

For comparison will use the same 68" Prop Length and Number of Blades (2).

Revmaster 2100-DQ converted auto-engine, 64 hp (47.7 kW) at 3,200 rpm. Direct Drive. Dry weight: ??? lb.
A (2) Blade 68" x 15 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 550.93 lbs needs 64.912 hp.
A (2) Blade 68" x 14 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 550.93 lbs needs 60.584 hp.

O-200 (100hp @ 2750rpm) Direct Drive. Dry weight: 170.18 lb (77.19 kg) dry, without accessories.
A (2) Blade 68" x 37 Pitched for -100rpm = 2650rpm = 402.59 lbs needs 100.020 hp.
A (2) Blade 68" x 36 Pitched for -100rpm = 2650rpm = 402.59 lbs needs 97.317hp.

Rotax Rick 670 (92hp @ 6350rpm). Using a 2.0 Gear Box. 6350rpm/2 = 3175rpm. Dry weight: (119 lb) with electric starter, carburetors, fuel pump, air filters and reduction gear.
A (2) Blade 68" x 22 Pitched for -100rpm = 3075rpm = 542.08 lbs needs 92.919 hp.
A (2) Blade 68" x 21 Pitched for -100rpm = 3075rpm = 542.08 lbs needs 88.696 hp.

A (3) Blade 64" x 20 Pitched for -100rpm = 3075rpm = 595.49 lbs needs 92.795 hp.

So what have we learned. Could we turn all of these Engines for the same Prop 3100rpm, for same Thrust Numbers, Yes. The difference would be hp/Torque made which translates into shorter takeoff distance, and time to reach Altitude.

Revmaster 2100-DQ converted auto-engine, 64 hp (47.7 kW) at 3,200 rpm. Direct Drive. Dry weight: ??? lb.
A (3) Blade 68" x 11 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 771.30 lbs needs 66.643 hp.
A (3) Blade 68" x 10 Pitched for -100rpm = 3100rpm = 771.30 lbs needs 60.584 hp.

Re: BMW 1200cc engine

John Hoxie
 

I went to the site. It is so de-rated for aircraft use, its too low hp for a Q2.

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 02:36:00 PM MDT, Bill Higdon via groups.io <willard561@...> wrote:


Here's a link to discussion about the BMW 1200 as a aircraft engine it started of with a discussion of theR1150 & progressed to the R1200
https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/threads/bmw-r1150.29290/