Re: Rudder balancing


David J. Gall
 

Al,

Read Ryan's question again:

Where is the weight placed when balancing a rudder?
This question is QUITE specific! It also is generic in that it does not
refer to ANY particular kind of airplane, Q1, Q2, Spruce Goose, Gloster
Meteor, etc....

You have NOT addressed this question AT ALL! You have only passed an opinion
that you think that balancing a rudder is a waste of time on a Q200.

As a result of your comments, we heard from Larry and Dave and Sam about
some instances of rudder flutter and their fixes. This is all very
illuminating and is a lively discussion in itself, but Ryan is right, "Your
answer did not offer any help for [him] to fix [his] flawed Q1." That's
because he has already determined that balancing the rudder -- whether you
agree or not -- is the fix he wants to use for the "flaw" he has identified,
right or wrong. He didn't ask to debate whether this is in fact a flaw or
whether balancing the rudder is the appropriate fix. He asked for guidance
on where to place the weight. You offered no such guidance.

Worse, you expose your closed-mindedness on the issue with the following:

By the way, I found nothing of substance in the other posts, in
terms of balancing the rudder, other than James P's post of the link
with a picture.
It scares me to think that an airline captain can't find "substance" in what
has been posted here. What if Sam was reporting on a B757 that "shook the
crap of the aircraft and it scared the crap out of me." You have pooh-poohed
that remark as not rising to the level of "flutter," and you can't find
"substance" in the FAR dealing with flutter that says the manufacturer must
demonstrate FREEDOM FROM FLUTTER at speeds up to 120% of Vne??! I'll bet
that if it happened to you in a B757 you'd be screaming bloody murder and
demanding that the fleet be grounded. If you wouldn't, then I sure as hell
never want to fly with you!

Why get on me for not offering a fix to a non-existant problem?
He isn't. He's getting on you for not answering his question. You seem to be
saying two different things: On the one hand, you say that balancing the
rudder is not the appropriate fix; on the other hand, you say the problem
doesn't exist. Which is it? Does the problem exist and the appropriate fix
is to tension the cables, or does the problem not exist? If the former, you
have offered your opinion but not answered Ryan's question; if the latter,
then you're calling Sam a liar. Either way, nobody asked you for a fix for
flutter, only for an answer to a question on where to place the weight when
balancing a rudder. Geez, lighten up!

On the other planes it sounds like Sam and Larry both have had good
results and neither have resorted to an aerodynamic balance.
You're right, here. And both have apparently shown that the form of rudder
flutter experienced when the cables go slack is not necessarily
catastrophically destructive if stopped promptly. Some of us still see that
as not good enough and would like a more satisfactory, engineered
preventative measure. James already did his that way. So did Lancair,
Glasair, and a whole HOST of other kitplane and certified plane
manufacturers, including Boeing, going back all the way to their first
big-old biplane mail plane!

Now, may we please, pretty please, have your god-ordained permission to
continue our little waste-of-time exercise in the absurd pursuit of a
balanced rudder without your further sniping on the issue? You don't think
its needed: WE GET THAT!!

Good god, give it a rest, Al.


David J. Gall



-----Original Message-----
From: alfranken2001 [mailto:alfranken@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 1:06 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Rudder balancing


Ryan,

Perhaps you should be a little more specific, if you're asking for
help.

I suspect that all of us, that have tried in earnest to answer the
question, will agree on this one...if your goal is to exceed
Vne...you are on your own.

Please forget I (and Bob F. and others) even took the time to try
and give you an answer...I, initially didn't even know you were
refering to the Q1.

I also doubt that you will get much positive feedback in your
statement that it is "flawed", if it was built to specs. It's
probably the best design of the three models.

Good luck and report back, if you can.

I suspect that the rudder may be low on the list of priorites if you
intend on flying "out of the envelope".

By the way, I found nothing of substance in the other posts, in
terms of balancing the rudder, other than James P's post of the link
with a picture.

Why get on me for not offering a fix to a non-existant problem?

On the other planes it sounds like Sam and Larry both have had good
results and neither have resorted to an aerodynamic balance.

Al




"Tri-Q1" <rryan@s...> wrote:

Al,

My question was/is:

Message 14014
Where is the weight placed when balancing a rudder?
Your answer did not offer any help for me to fix my flawed Q1.

Message 14016
When balancing a "Quickie rudder"....forgedaboutit!
I am close to exceeding my approved Vne and asked for help.

Ryan

--- In Q-LIST@..., "alfranken2001" <alfranken@m...>
wrote:
Dave,

I have never said, to "to forget about the possibility of
flutter"

Please be accuate, if you want to chat.

All I said was the "forgedabout" thinking about balancing the
rudder.

Please don't tell me that,you too, have fallen into the flawed
logic
catagory.

Get your plane flying, get it rigged correctly with the cables
and
springs, keep it maintained.

Now I'll move on.

Maybe you'll waste your time balancing your rudder or typing a
reply
to me.

Al


--- In Q-LIST@..., "Dave Ekstrom" <ekstrom@m...>
wrote:
Al
your recommendation for new comers to forget about the
possibility
of flutter has been proven wrong.
Just swallow the pride and move on.

Dave Ekstrom

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