Re: certifying projects without logs


Hi James,

Not sure about FAA rules, but the Australian CASA boys don't care if
we do 1000 hours of work on it, since we may just be slow workers. The
operative rule is "greater than 51% of the manufacturing". The actual
rules state that consecutive homebuilders can claim the prior time
spent by the earlier builders, but only if full documentation is
presented. i.e. 8" x 10" colour glossies with the arrows and the
circles ... in reality they are unlikely to grant maintenance rights
to someone who bought a near-completed project, for obvious reasons.


--- In Q-LIST@..., "James Postma" <james@p...> wrote:
The best info I have on this at this time is that you only have to
show that
it was amateur built to have it certified. You do not have to do
the work,
but you should do some of it to get an airworthiness certificate
with you as
the manufacturer. If you have any of the build history it will be
It would not be economical for a professional to build this airplane.
Usually they sell for less than the cost of completion, so there
should be
no question that it was amateur built. Do you have a bill of sale
from the
previous owner? Does he have a bill of sale? etc.

This info is from talking to the FAA in the Seattle area . Your
mileage may

You may be able to get the repairman's certificate if you do 1,000
hours of
work on it.

James Postma
Q2 Revmaster N145EX
Q200 N8427
Steilacoom, Washington
(253) 584-1182 9:00 to 8:00 PDT
May your header tank be always full and your wings right side up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "fionapple" <fionapple@y...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] certifying projects without logs

I'm worried that I wouldn't be able to certify or inspect a project I
complete if it has no logs to establish that it was built for
recreational purposes.

Let's say I buy a quickie project without logs. The airframe and
avionics are mostly complete, but I spend, say, 1,000 hours on
installing the engine, fitting the controls and building a couple
control surfaces, and checking the avionics. The prior builders are
unavailable, but I believe the panel was started by an avionics shop
and some airframe work and painting was done by another company. When
I look at the FAA documents listed at

I wonder:

(1) Can the plane be certificated (assuming it is airworthy)?
See 14 CFR part 21.191(g), ac20-139, ac20-27F.

Does anyone know about the designated airworthiness representatives
(DAR's) in the LVK/SFO area? Can I submit a prospective form 8000-38
to the local DAR for evaluation?

(2) Can I be certificated as the repairman for purposes of the annual
condition inspection?

This seems to be the applicable FAA document:

The only avenue seems to be (7)(B)(3), proving my ability to perform
condition inspections, since I'd fail (1) & (2). However, AC20-27F
(16)(a) suggests that I would also have to be the primary builder.
Does anyone have experience with getting this certificate without
prior builders' logs?

Thanks in advance...

Quickie Builders Association WEB site

Yahoo! Groups Links

Join to automatically receive all group messages.