1. Where are you getting the rest of your kit?
2. Where are you located?



Sam Hoskins

http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/springfling.html







_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
sean ross
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:58 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Digest Number 1794



Any one have spare tri q plans and ls1 canard plans and templates around.

let me know.

ordering materials soon.

Q-LIST@... wrote:


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "jcrain2@..."
2. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Jim Patillo"
3. Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: britmcman@...
4. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Jim Patillo"
5. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: Mike Dwyer
6. Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Peter Harris"

7. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Peter Harris"

8. N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Kevin Fortin"
9. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Kevin Fortin"
10. Grass strip!!
From: "jcrain2@..."
11. RE: Grass strip!!
From: "Kevin Fortin"
12. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "jcrain2@..."
13. RE: Grass strip!!
From: "jcrain2@..."
14. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: Mark/Pat Pearson/Pound
15. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Kevin Fortin"
16. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Sam Hoskins"
17. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Kevin Fortin"
18. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: OneSkyDog@...
19. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "jcrain2@..."
20. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Kevin Fortin"
21. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: Mark/Pat Pearson/Pound
22. Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: Mike Perry
23. [Fwd: [Dragonflylist] Mountain States Canard Wing Fly-In April 29-31]
From: Sam Kittle
24. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "L Koutz"
25. Re: Q-1 plans and airfoil templates
From: "L Koutz"


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:03:06 GMT
From: "jcrain2@..."
Subject: RE: N275CH First Flight Q200


Kevin,
You are now the "best man for the job". You've got experience!
My hanger mate has been saying for some time now that I should pull a little
power after the wheels come unstuck from the runway to save the engine and
perhaps to keep from a lean situation at full power. I had some surging in
my Q this last weekend on take off. I put the MT propellor on manual and let
it go to 3100 rpm on take off full power. It was surging on take off. I
pulled the power out a little and it cleared up. The fuel filters were just
checked about 15 hours ago. I believe the rpm that I was running was just to
much for the carb to keep up with. Normally I run the MT prop in manual
which lets the rpm go to about 2750 (I can set the adjust in the cockpit).
I do have fuel boost on take off.

I landed and took off from my 1st grass runway this Sun! With the tri-gear
it was a "piece of cake". The take off was very good! I was worried that the
take off would be weak. That is why I set the prop to 3100 rpm. If I had
pulled the rpm back a little or leaned out a little I would not have had the
surge on take off. I am excited about the possibilities! Grass strip! Who'd
a' thunk it!
Bruce


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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:55:10 -0000
From: "Jim Patillo"
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200



Kevin,

Thanks for the input. It will help solve your problem.


Some answers to Jim's questions:

Gascolator: NO ******** Good

Heat sleeve: YES ******* Good.

Fuel line between carb and oil tank: NO******* OK where does th
efuel line come though the firewall? Is it the shortest run possible?

Aux tank: NO. Straight from header to carb.******* Filters clean?

Fuel on board: About 15 gallons*******OK

Fuel vent: Checked before and after flight. Not hard plugged but who
knows if fuel plugged it on this flight******* This can definetely
cause the problem you described. It happened to me once. Loss of
fuel flow is no fun. I had filled the main, header and aux tank and
mistakenly flipped the aux switch ON before takeoff, thus putting
fuel overboard via the vent tube. NOT GOOD! Carb heat on and off
contineously let me get it back to the runway.

Flow check header tank in flight position: Not in flight position
but it did flow like a racehorse with the tail on the ground. (I
rechecked this as soon as I got it back to the hangar.)

Actual flow I don't know.************There is a minimum FAA
requirement. Bob F correct me if I'm wrong but I think its 15%
greater than the fuel burn for the engine at full power. ie, 9.5 x
15% or 10.9 per hour (gravity flow with fuel pump off). The facet
pump should deliver about 30 gph to the carburator. This is
typically checked with the tail off, fuselage on the mains and rear
on the floor. You might want to do this check prior to another
flight.

Carb Ice: Not Likely at 65 F and dew point about 24F (-4 C on ATIS
before flight).********OK

Heat soak: Now I think that is the question. I did 3 fast taxis with
slow taxis back to the start. Typically, I had done fast taxis back
and forth and I had never seen the oil temp up to 190. I chalked the
higher temp up to the slow taxis and thought it would drop when I
got some air through the engine. I just might have been late and
wrong on that call). Please note it is a long way to the runway and
I was sitting a bit waiting for other aircraft to clear before I was
allowed my fast taxis.*********OK since removing my gascolator I've
been in 100+ weather at OSHKOSH and other places taxiing for
extended time and did not have that problem. It only happened to me
with the gascolator.


Where are you located Kevin?

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On

Behalf Of

Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:36 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: N275CH First Flight Q200




Kevin,

Congratulations you're still alive to tell the story. Some have

not

been so lucky.

Do you have a gascolator? Do you have fuel lines running between

the

carb and oil tank? Do you have heat sleeve over the fuel lines? Do
you have an aux tank? How much fuel did you have on board? Are you
sure your ram air to header was free and clear and not blocked by
fuel or some foreign matter? Was the header fuel flowed at the

carb

in flight position (tail off, fuselage on the mains and split line

on

the deck)prior to flight? If so what was the flow in gallons per
hour? Could you have had carb ice? Did you allow the engine to

heat

soak prior to flight?

A lot of 0200 engines are much harder to turn over when they are
hot. What you experienced may be normal especially if your temps

were

very high. Are you around anyone that can verify this condition?

Don't let this mishap deter you. I had a vapor lock at 60 hours
and the engine quit at about 150' off the ground in front of the
tower. I was able to get it around the pattern just as you did
by "pumping the throttle". I discovered the gascolator caused a

vapor

lock, I shit canned it and the rest is history.

Regards,

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Kevin Fortin" wrote:

Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other

firsts as

well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you

can for

your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I

lined up on

the runway, hit the throttle and the takeoff went as much per

plan

as I

could expect. Then after about 10 seconds and at about 100 feet

the

engine

acted like it ran out of gas. Oh shit. I put the nose down,

declared

emergency, and started heading back to the runway which at this

point was

obviously too short for the job at hand. Hoping for a plan B, I

hit

the

throttle, the engine revved up, then slowed again after a few

seconds.

Seeing a connection there I kept pumping the throttle enough to

get

her back

in the air and around the pattern for my "first" landing. Let's

say

the

approach was not textbook but I got her back to the ground

without

any

bounces or anything I could complain about. I let it roll out

for a

bit and

then started braking. This is where the adrenaline of the

situation

got the

better of me. I braked too hard and it started pulling a bit to

the

right.

When I realized how hard I was braking I let off of the brake

(Johnson bar)

then ka-wam, I was headed for the other side of the runway.

Damn, I

was just

thinking I was going to pull the stunt off. Except for the

embarrassment,

all was OK.



Yesterday, and at this point, I am thinking the engine had

gotten

hot enough

that fuel was boiling in the carb.



Today, to try to reproduce the problem, I tied the tail down and

ran the

engine until the oil temp was 190 F, the previous day's takeoff

oil

temp.

This was when I noticed what may the real problem. After

shutting

down, when

I tried to move the prop, it moved with a lot of friction. I

quickly removed

the cowl and the sparkplugs to take away the

compression "resistance" and

found the engine was still hard to turn. Not knowing what to do

I

figured

lunch was in order. When I got back from lunch, and the engine

had

cooled

and it turned as light as I had known it before.



Any ideas of what might cause this "hot" friction? In any case I

bet an

engine teardown is in my future.



Kevin

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:49:29 EDT
From: britmcman@...
Subject: Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

Kevin:

Engines also seize for heat related tight fit conditions. Some of these are
piston diameter to cylinder wall diameter not sufficient, piston ring gap
not
sufficient ( piston ring can grow shut. Further expansion causes the ring to

bind against the cylinder wall and results in an engine seize), and plain
bearings can also seize. Some of these can self heal if temperatures go
down,
others cause damage.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:10:54 -0000
From: "Jim Patillo"
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200



Kevin,

Phil makes a good point. Do you have a newly rebuilt engine?

Brad's 0200 (Tom Moores airplane) has three or four hundered hours
on it and when Brad shuts down, his prop is hard to turn until it
cools.

Jim P.
--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@a... wrote:

Kevin:

Engines also seize for heat related tight fit conditions. Some of

these are

piston diameter to cylinder wall diameter not sufficient, piston

ring gap not

sufficient ( piston ring can grow shut. Further expansion causes

the ring to

bind against the cylinder wall and results in an engine seize),

and plain

bearings can also seize. Some of these can self heal if

temperatures go down,

others cause damage.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:19:57 -0400
From: Mike Dwyer
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

My 0-200A is way hard to turn when it's hot. That's not your problem.

A couple other questions that haven't been asked so far...
Do you have a vented fuel cap? Yes = bad. I blew up a balloon and
attached it to the fuel vent ram air line. It stayed full over night so
I got no leak. May try that, especially if you have 1/4" fuel line, you
need the ram air pressure.

Do you have any restrictions in your fuel line like a GPH sensor?
Standard MA3 SPA carb?
Gravity feed fuel?
Metal fuel line?

If you can do that well under these conditions you'll do great when the
engine is running!
Keep at it!
Mike Q-200 N3QP



Kevin Fortin wrote:

Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other firsts as
well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you can for
your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I lined up on
the runway, hit the throttle and the takeoff went as much per plan as I
could expect. Then after about 10 seconds and at about 100 feet the engine
acted like it ran out of gas. Oh shit. I put the nose down, declared
emergency, and started heading back to the runway which at this point was
obviously too short for the job at hand. Hoping for a plan B, I hit the
throttle, the engine revved up, then slowed again after a few seconds.
Seeing a connection there I kept pumping the throttle enough to get her

back

in the air and around the pattern for my "first" landing. Let's say the
approach was not textbook but I got her back to the ground without any
bounces or anything I could complain about. I let it roll out for a bit and
then started braking. This is where the adrenaline of the situation got the
better of me. I braked too hard and it started pulling a bit to the right.
When I realized how hard I was braking I let off of the brake (Johnson bar)
then ka-wam, I was headed for the other side of the runway. Damn, I was

just

thinking I was going to pull the stunt off. Except for the embarrassment,
all was OK.



Yesterday, and at this point, I am thinking the engine had gotten hot

enough

that fuel was boiling in the carb.



Today, to try to reproduce the problem, I tied the tail down and ran the
engine until the oil temp was 190 F, the previous day's takeoff oil temp.
This was when I noticed what may the real problem. After shutting down,

when

I tried to move the prop, it moved with a lot of friction. I quickly

removed

the cowl and the sparkplugs to take away the compression "resistance" and
found the engine was still hard to turn. Not knowing what to do I figured
lunch was in order. When I got back from lunch, and the engine had cooled
and it turned as light as I had known it before.



Any ideas of what might cause this "hot" friction? In any case I bet an
engine teardown is in my future.



Kevin

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:43:58 +1000
From: "Peter Harris"

Subject: Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

Kevin congratulations on the way you handled the flight and for the positive
attitude to solve the glitch.
I had similar power surge with a gravity fed Revmaster caused by fuel in the
plans built vent. . Under certain conditions at about 90mph on climb fuel
will remain in that particular fuel vent as gravity works against ram air.
The vent is too long and it points down. There will be no sign of the
problem on the ground. I fitted a short vent upward facing and have had no
further problem.
In an 0-200 the effect would cause fuel level variations in the bowl
affecting mixture but power surge has not been reported before.
if fuel plugged it on this flight

Flow check header tank in flight position: Not in flight position but it did
flow like a racehorse with the tail on the ground. (I rechecked this as soon
as I got it back to the hangar.) Actual flow I don't know.>

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:36 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: N275CH First Flight Q200




Kevin,

Congratulations you're still alive to tell the story. Some have not
been so lucky.

Do you have a gascolator? Do you have fuel lines running between the
carb and oil tank? Do you have heat sleeve over the fuel lines? Do
you have an aux tank? How much fuel did you have on board? Are you
sure your ram air to header was free and clear and not blocked by
fuel or some foreign matter? Was the header fuel flowed at the carb
in flight position (tail off, fuselage on the mains and split line on
the deck)prior to flight? If so what was the flow in gallons per
hour? Could you have had carb ice? Did you allow the engine to heat
soak prior to flight?

A lot of 0200 engines are much harder to turn over when they are
hot. What you experienced may be normal especially if your temps were
very high. Are you around anyone that can verify this condition?

Don't let this mishap deter you. I had a vapor lock at 60 hours
and the engine quit at about 150' off the ground in front of the
tower. I was able to get it around the pattern just as you did
by "pumping the throttle". I discovered the gascolator caused a vapor
lock, I shit canned it and the rest is history.

Regards,

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Kevin Fortin" wrote:

Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other

firsts as

well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you

can for

your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I

=== message truncated ===

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