Kevin Fortin - First Flights

Jim Patillo


Are you totally confident you've solved the fuel starvation problem
on your Q. If so what did you do to fix it? Have you "fuel flowed"
the plane with the tail off and the rear of the main fuselage on the
floor. If you haven't done so, you might want to cause that
simulates takeoff attitude.

Have you tied your plane down and ran to full power for a few
minutes so you can see the engine is not stumbling?

Do you have a chase plane, emergency ground crew and flight sylabus
in place for your 40 hour fly off?

When do you plan to get airborne again?

Regards and good luck,

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200 Asphalt advisor
--- In Q-LIST@..., "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@b...>
Kevin have you read all the posts about blocked air vents. That
will cause the starvation you had.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Fortin
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Building philosophy (was Engines)


Just make sure what you do engine-wise is good and solid. I have
about 90
seconds (total time) in my Q200 (N275CH) where fuel starvation
let gravity
get the upper hand. I managed to get it around the pattern and
back on the
ground but, let me tell, you the pucker factor is beyond the
peg. These are
fast little birds that don't appreciate off field landings,
fences, trees,

Kevin Fortin
Nervous and looking forward to trying again.

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On
Behalf Of
Mike Perry
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:06 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Building philosophy (was Engines)

Jim, let me put this a different way:

If you will only use what already has "a gazillion hours of
performance" you will end up with a Cessna-150, a Piper Cherokee
or a
Boeing 747. You won't end up with an experimental aircraft.

When you build an experimental aircraft you can follow standard
and end up with a reasonable and safe aircraft that you can test
in 40
hours and then feel reasonably safe to carry family/friends. Or
you can
try something radically new, in which case 40 hours is only the
beginning. However, none of us can neglect the details that
make us (and
our flying partners) safe as we go along. I think this is MORE
for those of us currently building than for you guys who are
thru the test

I wrote my earlier comments partly because I think alternate
engines can be
safe and effective, but mostly because I think ANY change from
practice needs very careful thought, testing and consultation
experts. That includes electronic ignition.

I agree that making only one change in a functioning
experimental is

Mike Perry

At 03:32 PM 9/12/2005 +0000, Jim Patillo wrote:

>Mike, I just couldn't let you get away without another
statement on
>this subject.
>While I also respect your comments, I deal with reality while
you are
>still in the dreaming stage! My plane flys a lot. Yours
doesn't. In
>fact you don't have a complete and flying Q - do you? You can
>speculate all you want but until you are flying your family and
>friends behind some particular engine, its still speculation on
>part. Let's get real here! What other proven engine outperforms
>0200 in HP and reliability in a Q - NONE! What is the price for
>life? Is it another 3-4K? Thats pretty cheap, wouldn't you say.
>0200's are just engines and subject to failure as well but LOOK
>The e-mails from guys who regualrly fly Q200's make my point
>perfectly and you know what I said is true. I made those
comments for
>new builders who want to fly and not just "dream about it".
I'll say
>it again, experimentation with marginal engines on first
flights is
>So lets clear something else up. I, like several others, have
>mods to my engine type that has a "gazillion hours of proven
>performance on it".
>Note: I did not do either of those mods until I had a safe
>airplane and they were done at different times for full
>One is a larger piston 9:4 to 1, no great shakes here. That mod
>offers up no demons as far as I can tell from my own
experiences and
>from others who have done the same conversion.
>Two, electronic ignition are no big deal when properly
>There are thousands of them flying in airplanes. Mike think
about it,
>would you perfer an ignition that has no moving parts and no
>maintenance to one that has to be inspected often and
>and is subject to mechanical failures?
>I rest my case on this subject.
>Jim Patillo N46JP Q200 "Flying"
>Mike Perry <dmperry1012@c...> wrote:
> > I respect Jim's viewpoint, but I would like to offer some
> > thoughts. To start with, Jim, you aren't flying an engine
with "a
> > gazillion hours of proven performance"; you have higher
>and electronic ignition.
>If you think those aren't significant, re-read
> > Terrance O'Neill's story about turning his Dragonfly into a
> > mis-wiring his LSE Plasma ignition. (Kitplanes, Nov. 2000,
p. 77-
> >
> > I would like to suggest to people considering alternate
>that you
> > read and re-read what is written by the experts. Read what
>say about
> > durability, modifications, longevity. (I'm sure I can get
> > out of a VW -- with an engine life expectancy measured in
>minutes.) Some
> > of the limits are not obvious if you come from an auto
> > background (eg: maximum compression ratios and continuous
> >
> > Some of these engines are safe ONLY if installed EXACTLY as
> > recommended. For example, you cannot use a prop extension
and you
>must use
> > a light-weight prop with VW, Corvair and Jabiru engines.
All three
> > had broken crankshafts when used with heavier props or prop
> >
> > If you have a "great idea" please check with an expert, such
> > Bennett for VWs or William Wynne for Corvairs, or find
someone with
>a lot
> > of hours on the same setup. Then ask yourself, "is 40 hours
> > enough to feel safe carrying passengers with this setup?" (4
> > engines have broken crankshafts. They averaged 60 hours of
> > time. All had prop extensions.)
> >
> > The best idea: Build and install the engine and accessories
> > recommended by the experts. And that's true whether you
start with
> > "Certified" engine or an auto conversion. Then go fly.
> >
> > Mike Perry
> > (0 hours on Q-200. Lots of hours rebuilding VWs)
> >
> >
> >
> > At 05:04 PM 9/9/2005 +0000, Jim Patillo wrote:
> >
> > >Fella's,
> > >
> > >I hope you take this message the way its intended cause I
> > >are all experimental in this business.
> > >
> > >I don't know much but alls' I know is; "anyone who
willingly puts
> > >his or his family/friends butts on the line to fly with any
> > >except one that is approved for airplane flight with a
> > >hours of proven performance may or could be considered
nuts". What
> > >am I missing here? Many have gone before you and with their
> > >proven what works and what doesn't. Why tempt fate anymore
than you
> > >have to? At best anything you install on one of these
planes is in
> > >failure mode the second it is installed. If you fly it long
> > >it will fail. Why provoke the evil gremlins of flight.
> > >
> > >New guys seriously consider sticking with proven engines.
Trust me,
> > >you will have way to many other things happening during
your first
> > >flights to throw a failed engine into the frey.
> > >
> > >The 0200 may be old and expensive but you can damn near
> > >it and it still works. If its got gas, air and spark it
will run.
> > >
> > >A couple of years ago I had a seal fail on one of the push
> > >and ran the engine out of oil quickly about 40 miles from my
> > >airport. I started to make a forced landing in the central
> > >California but with minimal RPM and oil pressure limped
back to
> > >When I pulled off the runway, the engine quit. I thought
for sure
> > >it was fried. After cutting the filter apart and finding no
> > >changed the 15W-50 oil and filter still expecting the
worst. I
> > >started the engine but to my suprise it worked as if
nothing had
> > >happened. I did a compression check and all cylinders were
fine. It
> > >now has several hundred hours since the failure and still
> > >strong. Look at the history of the Q200. The engine that
has worked
> > >sucessfully over the years is the 0200.
> > >
> > >The Jabiru 3300 appears to be a good option for this bird
> > >there's little docummented performance or longevity numbers
to back
> > >it up at this point. Time will tell.
> > >
> > >You can spend 8-12K for a pumped up modernized 0200 or 11-
12K for
> > >the new Jabiru 6. Which one is for you? The other options
may be
> > >cheaper but how much is your life worth?
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Jim Patillo N46JP Q200 - Technical ground & asphalt advisor
> > >LVK-"More flying Q200's than any place on earth".
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >

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