-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Ron Triano
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:22 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Taxiing before first flight. (long editorial)


Allen, whichever rudder/tailwheel system you choose to use you can get the
same results if you want to change the angle of the tailwheel.

Just think of the tailwheel as a gear with a chain to another gear. Small
to
big or big to small, If you want less movement at the tailwheel just move
the attach holes on the tailwheel bellcrank closer to the center. In other
words, big rudder bellcrank small tailwheel bellcrank will let the
tailwheel
travel less. I presently am flying my Sonerai which also is very twitchy.
But the difference between the two is the Sonerai tail is lifted shortly
after power applied and you are steering with the rudder only. Most take
the
Q off in 3 point attitude. The main point I am trying to get across is to
study each system, many work just fine. I never like being a Sheep and
following the whole pack. These are Experimental aircraft, so try things
only after much study and don't be shy to say I was wrong.

Ron Triano

South Lake Tahoe, CA

The Sonerai is finished and flying

finishing the Q200

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:15 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Taxiing before first flight. (long editorial)

Allan,

Reread my comment. I didn't like the idea of loosing control and not
being able to get back to center line way before I installed the
brakes. This was obviously the opinion of a lot of others as well and
today you see the results. QAC designed a pretty rudimentary airplane.
Cheap was a word that was in their vocabulary.

Further as David pointed out, we discovered a long time ago that
keeping the tailwheel straight as possible on take off or landing was
a must in a Q. If you could prevent twitchyness you had much better
control. Tailwheel/rudder differential via the bellcrank with internal
springs to the tail wheel to absorb side loads and Air Products
locking tail wheel did the trick. The new locking/swiveling tailwheel
has a 6" bellcrank and the stock rudder has a 3" bellcrank. We simply
installed an additional 6" bellcrank behind the FS120 bulkhead. The
tailwheel cables attach to the internal bellcrank at 6" (same width as
tailwheel bell crank) via springs and the rudder cables attached to
the internal bellcrank at 3-4" (same as rudder bellcrank) from rudder
to internal bellcrank. Thus a desensitized tailwheel/rudder with
proportionally more rudder travel for a given tail wheel input.

Hope this clears it up and why the bellcrank/tailwheel combo is a
valuable asset on this airplane. Add Gall Alignment and toe brake mod
and you have a stable airplane.

Regards,
Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Allan
Farr" <afarr@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that Jim. When you say that you found the single pull
lever unacceptable, do you mean from experience or just the thought of
it? I'm not getting at anything, I'm just interested because QAC
obviously thought the opposite.
> Regards
> Allan F
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Patillo
> To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Sent: Friday, 20 October 2006 15:22
> Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Taxiing before first flight. (long editorial)
>
>
>
> Allan,
>
> I bought my Quickie Kit in October 1981 from the factory. It had a
> single pull lever that when applied set both brakes. I found this to
> be totally unacceptable in any kind of crosswind. I did not like the
> idea but toyed with dual finger brakes not near as close to fininshing
> as Bob Malachek, Sam Hoskins, Paul Fisher and Tom Moore. So I delayed
> finishing the brakes knowing some how I was going to install toe
> brakes. Then I met Bob Farnam and he showed me the fix. Bob had
> already designed and installed toe brakes so I basically copied his
> set up. Our toe brake pedal geometry varied a little but both planes
> handled basically the same....................tame. I didn't do
> David's alignment becaue the plane was already a "pussycat" . I know
> for a fact from Sam and others that the alignment worked wonders on
> many planes.
>
> Later Brad Olson, Jeff Rudledge and Mark Summers installed toe brakes
> with small variations but basically the same. I can say............
> tame my good buddy Sam because it's so.
>
> Now should we collabrate and make a Q that can kick Klaus' ass?
>
> Regards,
>
> JP
>
> --- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Allan
Farr" <afarr@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jim. I understand that originally the Q2 had differential brakes,
> & that QAC changed it to a single pull lever. Was their reasoning
> faulty in your opinion?
> > Regards
> > Allan Farr
> > Q2
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jim Patillo
> > To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > Sent: Friday, 20 October 2006 11:28
> > Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Taxiing before first flight. (long editorial)
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > I hear you loud and clear and it's not that we had a better idea or
> > that I'm pontificating. The entire tail dragger world had a better
> > idea. Why don't you see finger brakes on all those tail draggers?
> > Why do you think finger brakes even came into existance in the Q
> > world? It was because we realized a single pull hand brake was not
> > the answer and we needed dual differentiating brakes. A finger
brake
> > modification is a hell of a lot easier than installing toe
brakes so
> > many of us (Texas contingent)did finger brakes and got use to it.
> >
> > I'm simply stating what I saw and did. As you point out, you do
need
> > three hands to perform this operation safely. Problem is I haven't
> > run across any three handed pilots lately.
> >
> > If people want to do things different, thats their perogative. As I
> > said before, the post was not to denigrate or pupu Wes's idea or
> > approach but to help prevent crashes before or during first
flights.
> > He was really creative in comming up with a unique differential
> > finger brake, problem is it doesn't work and its almost counter
> > intuitive. The control is to seensitive when moving the stick left
> > to right or visa versa. Having taxied his plane, it just takes so
> > much more to deal with than toe brakes. He can prove this out
really
> > easy. Leave the plane like it is and go fly!
> >
> > I know Paul and Sam have finger brakes and have lots of proven
hours
> > on them, fine. P.S. They are also really good Q pilots. Has either
> > one of them ever had to repair their planes due to a mishap on the
> > runway/taxiway or are their planes totally tame?
> >
> > Many people on this list know what I'm talking about but just don't
> > care to express it.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > JP
> >
> > --- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com,
"Dave
Richardson" <dave@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You know Jim, it is easy to get so wrapped up in the "I've got a
> > better
> > > idea" mode that all other solutions become just noise. It sounds
> > like
> > > Wes came up with a neat adaptation of the original single pull
> > lever.
> > > Your practical experience shows, though, he would really need
three
> > > hands to make it work safely. I hope Wes listens to you and
> > realizes
> > > you are not just pontificating. Have you let him taxi your plane
> > to
> > > show him what he could be experiencing as compared to what his is
> > > getting out of his design? I'll bet he spent far more time coming
> > up
> > > with his solutions and implementing them than it would take to
> > install
> > > the proven six pack.
> > >
> > > I had something similar happen to me with my reflexor prior to
> > first
> > > flight when a major flaw in my design was pointed out. Rather than
> > > argue my position, I ripped out the whole mechanisim I worked
> > pretty
> > > hard on designing and implementing and installed a Falkner
> > reflexor in a
> > > fraction of the time. I have a much safer reflexor as a result
> > and that
> > > is what really counts.
> > >
> > > To Wes and other guys like Wes, why waste your time, energy and
> > $'s on
> > > something that has already been solved and proven to be
> > successful? Do
> > > what works and go fly your plane.
> > >
> > > Dave Richardson
> > > Tri-Q2 N825DR 84 hrs.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jim Patillo
> > > Sent: Thu 10/19/2006 2:33 PM
> > > To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [Q-LIST] Taxiing before first flight. (long editorial)
> > >
> > >
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