Re: [Dragonflylist] RE: [Q-Performance] Quickie as LSA
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Rick Hole
Be careful you get your regulations straight before trusting what someone
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(including myself) tells you. I believe you will find that ELSA does NOT give you design modification rights as does Experimental Amateur... Anyway this whole discussion is off topic for Q-List. We simply fly too fast to qualify flying one under the LSA rule (not Sport eligible), and there is no possibility of certifying one outside the Experimental Amateur Home-built category. ELSA is not possible, it only can be done as a kit-build duplicate of an SLSA aircraft. As to modifying a Quickie/Q2 to meet the stall and Vno speeds required, you no longer have a Quickie/Q2. Performance list is a good place to explore that possibility. Realize that you would be in uncharted territory and basically designing an airplane from scratch. Make sure you know what you are doing and are prepared for unexpected adverse characteristics. Not for the beginner or faint-of-heart. It's a bit like building a Ferrari but putting in a transmission with only 1st and 2nd gear... Rick -----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Edward Lysogorski Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:43 PM To: dragonflylist@...; q-list@... Subject: [Q-LIST] RE: [Dragonflylist] RE: [Q-Performance] Quickie as LSA This ELSA thing can be very confusing. We were taught at the September 2009, 120 hour course by RAINBOW AVIATION, in OSHKOSH, that after the expiration of the transition dead line for fat ultralights, there will still exist one (1) way to build an ELSA. The requirement is that a manufacturer that has an approved SLSA can market it in kit form and the 'homebuilt kit' must be an exact replica of the original SLSA. Seems like there is no 51% rule or builders log to deal with. Once the ELSA airworthiness is issued, (that very afternoon) you can change anything you wish because it is an experimental and anybody, including your 12 year old child, can work on or make changes to an Experimental (ELSA or Amature Built). For example, you can take off an approved Rotax engine, and replace it with a Harly Davidson engine if you think you can get the results you are looking for. For those of you that just gasped in disbelief about the ability to modify, check it out with Rainbow Aviation. The annual condition inspection is a whole different matter. With the ELSA airworthiness you will not be able to get a builders certificate because those are available only for 'Experimental Amature Built Aircraft'; However, as an "owner" of an ELSA you can perform your own annual condition inspection if you take the 16 hour inspection course; and the big benifit is that a subsequent "ELSA owner" can perform the condition inspections as well if the new 'owner' takes the 16 hour course. That may increase the resale value of your aircraft considerably over an Experimental Amature Built. Vans Aircraft offers an ELSA kit,. Any manufacture that chooses to offer an ELSA kit can do it if they have one (1) factory built SLSA that meets the ASTM standards and they are offering a kit to build an exact replica of that SLSA aircraft and the completed aircraft is an exact replica. By now, other manufacturers may be offering a 10%, 50%, or a 95% kit. I'd expect people to get into the buisiness of building ELSA aircraft for others. You can even buy a complete flying SLSA built by any manucturer and convert the airworthiness to ELSA if you choose to do so, that would probably lower the resale value, however; if you were to buy a SLSA wreck, converting the airworthiness to ELSA might be a very good option. See http://www.kitplanes.com/magazine/sport_pilot/8873-1.phtml for Vans approach to marketing. The punch line is that an ELSA would seem everybit as flexible for modification purposes (after the airworthiness is issued) as an Experimental Amature Built. The regulatory befuddlement of it all is that two planes that are exactly the same can have different paperwork. Given the option (even if I could prove 51% to get a builders certificate) I'd much prefer an ELSA airworthiness to an Experimental Amature Built Airworthiness for the purpose of improving the resale value. Edward Lysogorski, 6822 Dixie Highway, Bridgeport, Michigan 48722 Phone/FAX (989) 777-9070 To: Q-Performance@... CC: Q-LIST@...; Dragonflylist@... From: panzera@... Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:41:37 -0700 Subject: [Dragonflylist] RE: [Q-Performance] Quickie as LSA I was wondering if thier has been any work done on adapting the Quickie toThis might be splitting hairs here, but it's a pet peeve so please forgive my rant in advance. There is no way that the Q or any other homebuilt will ever be a "light sport aircraft." It will always be an experimental, amateur-built. If someone was to take the time to build and fly a prototype that is 100% compliant with the ASTM consensus standards (jumping through all the bureaucracy to document it properly), and then offer a kit that contains 100% of the parts it takes to build an exact replica of that plane, and the builder went by the plans 100% all the way down to the exact placement in the panel of the exact specified instruments (it could be painted a different color if the prototype was painted but you could not install a Dynon if steam gauges are specified), then that builder can register his plane in the E-LSA category. Note that the E-LSA kit does NOT need to meet the 51% rule. The "kit" could literally consist of the "builder" uncrating it and installing the propeller... but I digress. If you as the builder of a variant of a Dragonfly or Quickie (or any plane for that matter), were able to prove that it meets the performance parameters of an LSA (max 2 seats, 1320 gross weight, fixed gear and prop, cruise speed limit of 120 knots, 52 mph stall speed, etc.) then any sport pilot may legally fly this experimental, amateur-built aircraft. It is NOT however an LSA by any measure. It is an experimental, amateur-built aircraft that is "sport pilot eligible." Pat _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID283 26::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 ------------------------------------ Quickie Builders Association WEB site http://www.quickiebuilders.org Yahoo! Groups Links |
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