Re: What ever happened to the new Q2/Q200 kits

Larry Severson

I have a fuselage that is assembled/with canopy cutout and assembled that I will song.


Larry Severson

18242 Peters Ct

Fountain Valley, CA  92708

(714) 968-9852


From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 7:15 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: What ever happened to the new Q2/Q200 kits



Sorry Richard!  You're getting a lot of info that  you didn't ask for.  What ever you do....Blessings!


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Armilite@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: What ever happened to the new Q2/Q200 kits
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 09:02:53 -0400



So Richard, what did these New Q2/Q200 Kits Cost? Hasn't this been an on going 3-5 year project already?


People can't Buy, what they can't See, Touch, Read About, or Test Fly, or Test Ride in! Do You, just walk into a place and hand someone, $20,000, $30,000, $40,000+ without doing most of the above mentioned? To Sell things in this World, you need a Good Web Page, Product to Show People, Show Magazine Writers, Display at Big Air Shows, and have Product on a Show Room Floor/Airport.


Most, All Composite Airplanes take a long time to build, 2000 to 3500hrs on average, account most Companies don't make Molds to cut down the build time. Today, you have more Machines than ever to make more Parts Faster, CNC ROUTERS, CNC PLASMA/LASER/WATER JET. Some machines are Cheap $4000 to $8000, some are not, but you probably don't need the expensive ones any way. A CNC 4' x 4' Plasma($4000), and a 4' x 8' CNC Router($8000), is probably all you would need if you bought New stuff, used would be cheaper. There is many small job/welding shops looking for work to Fab the metal pieces also. When the average workers wage today is $8-$16 in most places, you don't have to do it all yourself.


There is 225 Countries, 8 Billion People in this Big World, and you can't sell as many small (Q1), and (Q2) 1-2 Seat Aircraft, that you can produce in a year? How long to make (1) Kit?


Good Marketing, is the Mother of all Evils, for Small, and Large Companies.


Almost, every Old Dog on here has preached, "Build it by the Plans" for 30 years. When they started building theirs many many years ago, most of them were a lot thinner, then they are now. Young People are bigger today also. With kids today, 3D Modeling AR15 Recievers, and many other different parts at home on their Desktop, and then 3D printing them out. You may have to, Think out side of the Box a little today. They have 3d Printed a House, Colt 1911 Pistol, etc. Both of these Planes should have been 3D modeled, and Scaled up, many years ago, to fit more People. 3D CAD has been around for almost 30 years now. Someone here on QBA did all the Metal parts into CAD, many years ago, so some of the work was already done.


Yes, the Quickey(Q1) came with a lousy Engine(Onan 22hp), but that was probably 30+ years ago. So did the Q2 with a VW(65hp). Many People, upgraded fast to the O-200(100hp). You have had many choices to upgrade that Onan. The Rotax 277UL(26hp) came out in 1983, and the 377UL(35hp), 447UL(40hp), 503UL(50hp) came soon after.


They are both still nifty, and attention grabbing aircraft. In 35 years there has been a whole lot of new Engine's, Metal's, Material's, Technology, more Paint Colors available, more Electronic's, than ever before to pick from.


You just need Someone, who can Think out side of the Box, make the few Upgrades needed, do some Good Marketing, and have an Engine lined up for each Airframe, and have the Finacing lined up for the potenial buyers! But you have to also, Price your Product right. Trouble is, Everyone today, wants to be a Millionaire over night these days. You also need to cut the Build Time down to 500hrs, or even less, so Molds are needed. I could have bought a used CNC, 5 Axis, Gantry Router, 5' x 15' for $7000 off ebay, almost 8-9 years ago. A used 5 Axis CNC Mill for $8000 with Tool Changer, a used CNC Tube Bender for $12,000. I don't remember what Height the gantry was now, but it was high, like 32".


For the Q2, you still have the O-200(100hp) still made, New $23,000 retail, or Rotax/Hirth Engines. For the Q1 you still have the Rotax 582UL(65hp) made $5000 for engine, or the Hirth Engines. Hirth's 28hp with Electric Start, is $3800. There is many used Rotax 277UL(26hp), 377UL(35hp), 447UL(40hp), 503UL(50hp), around also, that could be Zero Timed/Rebuilt.


Some People have a Degree in Management, some in Mold Making, some in CNC Machining, some in 3D CAD Modeling, some in Accounting, some in Welding, some in Mech., or Electrical Engineering, and some in Marketing, but very few People have a Degree in everything needed to run a Business like this. Most don't have the financing needed either. Having Good ole Common Sense, plays a lot into a Business also.


Many Airplane Designers/Inventors/Engineers forget, Planes are made for hauling People & Bags. Size it/Power it, accordingly. You don't design it for only 20-30% of the Market, which is already small. Out of the 8 Billion People on this planet, how many even have a Pilot's License? Probably less than .00001%


When you have People today, who can Think Out Side of the Box, who can reproduce a 1969 Camaro for: "The convertible bodies will sell for around $12,000 as bare shells with doors and a decklid but without a front clip. Due to the cost of the roof stamping, the hardtops available early in 2005 will be a few thousand more. That's big coin, but have you tried to buy and repair a real Camaro lately? Also, compare it to the $10,500 Brookville steel '32 Ford roadster or the $22,500 steel Dearborn Deuce coupe and it seems like a bargain."


Any good Kitplane Marketed, and Priced right, can sell also.


Just My Opinion, from observing/visiting many different Kitplane/Kit Car Manufactures in the last 35+ years.


Rich Gillen


Tue Aug 4, 2015 4:25 pm (PDT) . Posted by:



The reason no one has seen any new Q kits is due to the fact that up till this week Fast Little Airplanes has been a part time shop and all development has been out of my pocket. We did try to work with an investor once and by the time that relationship was over I almost ended up completely folding and closing the doors. We can make the original Q2 shells and we do make all the metal parts. Fact is we can offer a new kit of the original bird but in the research that was done we found that the cost to produce the old style kit to be more then folks would be willing to pay for an airplane that was 2 place and averaged 2000 hours to build. Now F.L.A.P.'s is a full time shop and we are pressing forward with the NXQ-1 and 2 plus still offer all the parts and support for the original Q's.

Fast Little Airplanes LLC



Re: What ever happened to the new Q2/Q200 kits= recap


Tue Aug 4, 2015 6:38 pm (PDT) . Posted by:



OK OK OK Let me weigh in.

I started the QBA with a partner some 40 years ago. He finished but never flew his Q-1. I finished and flew mine and the FAA blessed it.
Here are a few things I believe:
The days of the Q1 and Q2 are over. They were nifty and attention grabbing aircraft. The QAC sold a pile of those kits but the majority of them were never finished or flown. I would bet against anybody who thinks he can resurrect that kit and make money doing it. I have a Masters degree in management and have actually managed and marketed aircraft parts. There is no longer a profitable market for this aircraft... but we live in the USA and can spend our money as we choose.
In 40 years of organizing and attending Q specific events there are only a few of these craft regularly flying. Can somebody find for me 100 that were finished and still flying?
My Q1 never did what I hoped it would. Lousy engine. Half or more Q2's had to change engines and gear. The cockpits are not comfy for 2. Baggage capacity is poor. Where are they all now? Yes there are a few builders who have persisted and enjoyed their planes but how many projects have been abandoned? Too many guys have lost big gobs of money. The time has passed. Some of our very successful builders are moving on to aluminum.
It would surprise the hell out of me if FLAP or anybody has a big fat handful of orders with deposit $$$ attached. Too many newbies out there like to flap their gums but won't put up any $$$. Remember this is 40 years talking. Builders-to- be are notoriously cheap.
Newbies should not be awash in the dream world but should carefully consider the available facts.

While I seem to be negative I am only trying to analyze 40 years of facts. Somebody prove me wrong.
They are beautiful, they are fast but their time has passed. Move on.


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