Re: Resin volume placed on foam


smeshno1@...
 

 Yes.. and with caul sheet and/or tooling surfaces this is especially true. Saves lots of TIME..but not a lot in weight. 

 Of course, in a production setting time reduction is a major part of the path to profits. Big difference in mission of the projects. Our project out in our shop is not demanding a profit margin for the stockholders.  I personally have no problems with anyone using all the up to date techniques if one wishes to do so..if the structure is good..no problem. God knows we have (and STILL have) plenty of failures in mass production in parts...even with the most fancy dancy methods and toys money can buy!.   Not me.. I'm not looking to save 10 pounds over all and spend oodles of time and greenbacks to get them. I had to do that as a job over 30 years..chasing time and methods all over the place for a few pounds or minutes saving.  

 I'm interested in adding safety and access using the existing methods and structure as much as possible.

Vern       


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:56 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
From memory the Cozy girls said “you won’t save any weight with their vacuum bagging.  It just made smooth uniform pieces that didn’t need much filler”.  That’s from about 10+ years ago so I can’t “etch that in stone”.
Bruce 


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:01 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

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