Re: Elevator Trim Springy Thingy Really Needed?

Frankenbird Vern

 Mr Mod himself (me) is staying with the known aerodynamics. I also have a GU airfoil and even though I do not 
plan to add an autopilot, the trim system and reflexor are "in stone" along with vortex generators.   

 I also agree with the others to read all the archives now. Once you get your repair completed Robert DO take the time to 
"deep dive" because this machine is unlike others, as you will discover when you taxi up to the pumps on the ramp!! You 
have a lot of history to catch up on.. and its' damn good reading too I might add. 

 Not rolling out resumes..but I know John Roncz, Burt and Dick Rutan, and Jeanna.  I was on the R&D team of Starship 1
at Beech in the early 1980's and spoke with John several times. I was building my Cozy at the time and asked a lot about the Q bird. 
One of our co-horts was building a Q1 at the time. John Bingham also was in the conversations. At the time I had only flown a 
Q1 once in Little Rock. Long-eze on several  Xcountrys from Wichita where I was born.  Roncz admitted the aerodynamic issues with 
the GU to us, having already experienced rain and bug lift degrading. Its not "bad" per se..but DOES need the generators to be safe.
 Due to Flight Testing of NC2 and NC3 Starship ended up having fences on the main wing and vortex generators on the canard in production, which you can clearly see in this photo op shot.   


 Take a bit of a break from re construction and just take a few days to injest what experiences are offered free to you. You might even find Sam in a few of those photos.  :-)     

From: <> on behalf of Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 12:25 AM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Elevator Trim Springy Thingy Really Needed?
I couldn’t agree with David and Jay more. We’ve been watching this scenario play out over 
40 +years. Sadly, several people died thinking they knew better than the advise they were given. 
Everybody wants a fast and pretty plane but prudence is your best friend. After all it’s your but in the seat. 
We didn’t have internet, just a bunch of dedicated guys trying to get those Q birds in the air and we learned from each other. Pioneers like
Sam H., Paul F. Bruce C. Bob Malacek and others before them helped pave the way. Some wouldn’t listen and paid for it. 
Like for example, when the guy from New Jersey crashed John Findley’s 
Quickie at Albuquerque International and then tried to blame Jon for it. He flew there with another guy to fly it back to NJ. 

Like David said, read the archives……... everything you can get your hands on. Not being critical but all the info you are asking about has already been answered multiple times. 

N46JP - Q200

From: <> on behalf of David J. Gall <David@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 7:22:11 PM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Elevator Trim Springy Thingy Really Needed?



You’re asking for a Masters’ level dissertation on pitch stability and control, all of which has been hashed over numerous times on these pages. Please read the archives.


Long story short: follow the plans and the QAC factory plans change notices. We don’t need any Q-pilots (you!) killed because they thought they could do it “better” without understanding what it is that they’re doing. If you’re flying without sparrow strainers (or their aerodynamic equivalent) you’re doing it wrong. If you’re installing an autopilot servo with the expectation that the servo can hold a bias force thereby permitting you to eliminate the spring, you’re doing it wrong. If you’re installing an autopilot without first having hand-flown the full flight envelope and adjusted the trim spring and sparrow strainers (both with and without using the reflexor), you’re doing it wrong.



David J. Gall


From: <> On Behalf Of Robert Schmid
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 6:04 PM
Subject: [Q-List] Elevator Trim Springy Thingy Really Needed?


Humor me please, with a little bit of patience as I have only flown a Quickie once ... With a 2 axis autopilot and a reflexor, do I need the elevator trim spring setup at all?

I am asking for a few reasons ...

  • I didn't really like the elevator pressure the springs created, I like light stick pressure like my RV4
  • How much back pressure does the elevator need in climb? Too much for the autopilot servo?
  • I have heard from a few that you solely trim your pitch with the reflexor in cruise alone.
  • And lastly, one less piece of equipment I need to install and maintain is appealing but ...

What do I know? Knowing you, I expect a lively conversation so GO :-)
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.

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