You need to move out here, Jerry ;-)

Cheers,

Jay 

On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:27 PM, Jerry Marstall <jerrylm1986@...> wrote:



  Even if I was still planning to be at FOD, it wouldn’t have happened.  Weather!!!  Can’t get out and wouldn’t have be able to get back.  There is always next year.  Everybody, get your shots.

Jerry

Flax is inferior to highly-crystalline cellulose fiber for exactly the reasons mentioned below. Highly-crystalline cellulose fiber is nearly equivalent to E-glass in all respects except weight -- glass is much heavier -- and in sanding -- glass is itchier. Highly-crystalline cellulose fiber is mechanically derived from what would otherwise be wastes generated in lumber processing industries and is marketed worldwide under the trade name BioMid by Gordon Shank consulting. The roving is used as twine (you know it must be inexpensive!) in the hydroponics industry so availability will persist for a long time for numerous reasons. BioMid is available woven into cloth in the US from Absecon Mills and in Europe from FRP Services & Co (France).



-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rob de Bie
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:04 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q1 Canard and wing foam cut

Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites some 15 years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no suitable sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties.
Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15 years ago.

I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded reasonable to me.

Rob

On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
> Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to
> which I am adding a tiny turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed
> since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine weight is around
> 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1
> because I don’t need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust
> line and to isolate the prop loads from the mystery metal Chinese
> crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have
> replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for stiffness.
>
> Bob
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io
> <http://groups.io> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>     What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
>     decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
>     There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
>     introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.
>
>     Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
>     rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of
>     carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese
>     suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated
>     the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.
>
>

Nice site, decent data. But most applications look mostly cosmetic and/or low loaded. I think you
are pioneering with the material, make really sure that you are safe! Like with those hot/wet
specimens to check long-term resin adhesion. Should I look up that article to give you some guidance?

Rob


On 16 Sep 2021 20:27, Robert Cringely wrote:
> It seems to be working fine for me: https://lingrove.com/ekoa-prepregs
> <https://lingrove.com/ekoa-prepregs>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 11:04 AM Rob de Bie <robdebie@... <mailto:robdebie@...>> wrote:
>
>     Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites
>     some 15
>     years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no
>     suitable
>     sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to
>     degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties.
>     Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15
>     years ago.
>
>     I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test
>     specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded
>     reasonable to me.
>
>     Rob
>
>     On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
>      > Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny
>      > turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection.
>     Engine
>      > weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I
>     don’t
>      > need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the
>      > mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have
>      > replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax
>      > fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat
>     added for
>      > stiffness.
>      >
>      > Bob
>      >
>      > On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <http://groups.io> <http://groups.io
>     <http://groups.io>> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>
>      > <mailto:aol.com@groups.io <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
>      >     decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
>      >     There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
>      >     introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.
>      >
>      >     Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
>      >     rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical
>     source of
>      >     carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The
>     Chinese
>      >     suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have
>     indicated
>      >     the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.
>      >
>      >
>
>
>
>
>
>

   If you are building a Quickie with the LS1 canard, you may want to
check out Waddlow. He has a process of building without using the carbon
spars.  Also check out Dragonfly airplanes, they have carbon fiber, but
nothing is premade and expensive.

You may  want to use the original layup for the GU and add carbon uni to
compensate for the thickness.  The calculations would have to be done by
someone much smarter than me.

  Maybe Terry can jump in on how he built his LS.  It is well proven to
work.----------  Take care---------------  Chris


--
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Bob, when you mentioned flax fibers I peaked my ears! I've worked a bit with flax composites some 15
years ago. Is the material mature enough to use in an aircraft? I remember problems like no suitable
sizings being available to optimize fiber-resin adhesion, moisture content during curing leading to
degraded resin adhesion & quality, and moisture absorption during use leading to lower properties.
Sounded to me like it would a lot more development before it would be safe to fly. But it was 15
years ago.

I also remember reading in an eighties issue of 'Homebuilt aircraft' magazine that hot-wet test
specimens could be good indicator of the longer-term quality of the fiber-resin adhesion. Sounded
reasonable to me.

Rob

On 16 Sep 2021 17:39, Robert Cringely wrote:
> Thanks! I’m using a no-name 680cc aluminum air-cooled V2 diesel to which I am adding a tiny
> turbocharger and intercooler. What’s changed since you looked is probably direct injection. Engine
> weight is around 50kg. I’m adding a belt drive from Ace Redrives in India. It’s 1:1 because I don’t
> need a slower prop but I do need to raise the thrust line and to isolate the prop loads from the
> mystery metal Chinese crankshaft. I’m probably a year from flying, by which time I will have
> replaced most of the airframe with vacuum-bagged pre-preg. It’s not carbon or glass — it’s flax
> fiber, which fits right between e-glass and s-glass in performance, with a little Coremat added for
> stiffness.
>
> Bob
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:16 AM Hot Wings via groups.io <http://groups.io> <bd5er=aol.com@groups.io
> <mailto:aol.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>     What diesel engine are you considering?  I looked at the V-twin Chinese diesels more than a
>     decade ago and discarded the idea as not practical.
>     There are some interesting marine 2 stroke diesel development projects nearing market
>     introduction that may provide some of us with a 100LL option.
>
>     Look up Alan Thayer (sp) in the archives.  He had an LS-1 canard designed using Graphlite
>     rods.Attached is a *.ZIP file of some of his work.  Graphlite is no longer a practical source of
>     carbon rods for us as they are quite unwilling to sell rolled lengths of material.  The Chinese
>     suppliers are willing and at a considerable savings in cost.  Preliminary tests have indicated
>     the quality/strength is as good as the US sourced material.
>
>