Date   

Re: First flight crash!

JMasal@...
 

In a message dated 9/22/04 5:30:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
patillo@... writes:


These kinds of adventures
are what has gotten this plane such a bad rap. It's not the airplane
guys! It's not the airplane!
On my next flight to London what I want up in the cockpit is a captain who
figgers "Geeze, the plane aint quite as it should be, but dammit it's such a
beautiful night out for flying."
As you may remember, there is already one dead sumbitch in Maryland who
refused help from a concerned Q2 builder because he knew all he needed to know.
What pis_es me off is that these events add to the negative "lore" about the
plane that boneheads circulate in EAA chapters throughout America. It's not the
plane but the ego behind the stick.
I appreciate you and many more who offer up their planes and time for
orientation rides in the hope of short-circuiting some of this crap.

j.


Re: Q2 kit vs Q200

Tri-Q1 <rryan@...>
 

Group,

Does anyone on this group have a set of Q-200 LS-1 plans and
templates in like new condition for sale?

Ryan
--- In Q-LIST@..., "David J. Gall" <David@G...> wrote:
David,

You can go either way. The Q200 is a modified Q2. Some people
upgraded
during or after building a Q2, some bought the Q200 from the
outset. You'll
need the plans and the carbon spars for the Q200, though. New spars
are
available from Peter Harris. Plans, especially the LS(1) canard
templates,
could be a problem.


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: dmrusselljr [mailto:davdebrussell@c...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:57 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Q2 kit vs Q200


I am considering building a Q200. Is it reasonable to
purchase a Q2 kit and make the needed modifications to make a
Q200 or should I keep looking for a Q200 kit? Thanks for your
input. David


Re: Not needed Cheng Shin Tires and tubes

iveshive
 

How about you pay the shipping ? - Or better yet - How about you
fly over to NC and pick me up and take me to the fly-in ?
Tom Ives


Re: Not needed Cheng Shin Tires and tubes

Jim Patillo <patillo@...>
 

How cheap. patillo@...
--- In Q-LIST@..., "iveshive" <iveshive@y...> wrote:
I have four new unused cheng shin 4.00-5 4 ply tires w/tubes. Any
of
you taildragger guys need them ?
Tom Ives


Not needed Cheng Shin Tires and tubes

iveshive
 

I have four new unused cheng shin 4.00-5 4 ply tires w/tubes. Any of
you taildragger guys need them ?
Tom Ives


Re: Q2 kit vs Q200

David J. Gall
 

David,

You can go either way. The Q200 is a modified Q2. Some people upgraded
during or after building a Q2, some bought the Q200 from the outset. You'll
need the plans and the carbon spars for the Q200, though. New spars are
available from Peter Harris. Plans, especially the LS(1) canard templates,
could be a problem.


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: dmrusselljr [mailto:davdebrussell@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:57 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Q2 kit vs Q200


I am considering building a Q200. Is it reasonable to
purchase a Q2 kit and make the needed modifications to make a
Q200 or should I keep looking for a Q200 kit? Thanks for your
input. David


Re: o200 pistons

iveshive
 

--
I just fired up my 0-200 for the first time yesterday - I used the c-
85 piston's ( balanced everything)- Had the tops chamfered for
clearance - also ported and polished the intakes and cylinders - then
sent them off to somewhere in Colorado for Computer flow matching.
Added electronic ignition. The engine was done 4 years ago and has
sat waiting for me - but I still have all my correspondence involved
in my decision making process - the different way's to go and the
places to have the work done. I believe some time in the archives
might get the same results - but I would be glad to make copies of (
about 10 pages) and mail them to you. I think it even discuss the
percentage of increase with each option. - Can't remember - but be
glad to dig them up for you !
Tom Ives






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Re: removing canard and tail

Larry Severson
 

Thank you for the suggestion on how to deal with the tail.

What about the wing, it is cockamainy too?
I do not think so based on:
Plane in the trailer and the elevator root measured at 29 inches to the floor on both sides (nose is slightly down in the trailer), the wing roots had a 1 inch difference in height above the floor. This measurement was on 2 points 36 inches apart. The difference matched the direction of cant in the fuselage. I need to get out my books to calculate the number of degrees of rotation; but off the top, the numbers looked pretty good for an eye balled 3-4 degrees error in fuselage mounting.

An additional factor is that the book had the builder checking the wing level with a water gage and the builder religiously checked off every step. Unfortunately, there was no such check for the fuselage in the manual. The obvious solution was not obvious to the exacting builder of this plane. The final installation will use the water gage verification this time.

Beautiful plane wrongly built. I guess there really is something to either building it yourself, or insisting that it be flying before buying.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: o200 pistons Compression ratio??

Bartholomew Hanson Fisher
 

what about Variable Compression ratio??

Thanks Bart

Quoting Jim Patillo <patillo@...>:







If you just want to insert the pistons without having to rebore the

rods(i,e,;Klaus set up)use Lycon higher compression pistons and

rings. An easy bolt on for added power. Ken is in Visalia CA @ 1-550-

651-1070.



Jim Patillo Q200 N46JP



--- In Q-LIST@..., fisherb@u... wrote:

>

> Hey guys I got all new cylinders for my o200 any recommendations

on pistons

> looking for more power.

>

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Re: o200 pistons

Sickler, Terry L <terry.l.sickler@...>
 

Yep Pablo,
I am told that C-85 pistons, machined with a clearance chamfer at the top will jack-up your compression nicely. ~T~

-----Original Message-----
From: fisherb@... [mailto:fisherb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 4:35 PM
To: Q-LIST@...; dmrusselljr
Cc: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] o200 pistons



Hey guys I got all new cylinders for my o200 any recommendations on pistons looking for more power.







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Re: removing canard and tail

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

For the vertical fin: Best solution is to go after the tail with a powered
hack saw. It will take you about 15 minutes. Just cut around the vertical
fin, then pull it out. This will leave you with a hole in the tail. You
can fill the cavity with foam, then glass over for the repair to the tail
cone. Reinsert the old vertical fin or build a new one.



For the canard, do the same. Use a Sawsall with the longest blade you can
find. You have the right approach, as far as hoisting the fuselage up, that
should work ok.



What about the wing, it is cockamainy too?



Sam







_____

From: larry severson [mailto:larry2@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:57 PM
To: q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] removing canard and tail



I would appreciate suggestions on removing the canard.
It looks like the best way is to remove the failing material with a wood
chisel and then separating the canard from the fuselage with a hacksaw
blade.
Is there a better way?

I plan to lift the front, engine on, with an engine hoist and supporting
the aft with a saw horse. Then I can redo the elevator controls and mount
the wheel pant on the left canard tip. Finally, I will be lowering the
fuselage back on the canard, paying attention to proper rigging.
Any other suggestions?

The tail was mounted vertically in the mis-rigged fuselage, so it will be
canted 3-4 degrees to the left when the fuselage is re-rigged.
Given that it is dropped into a bed of flox during the initial
installation, does anyone have a suggestion on the best way to break it
loose and reinstall it?

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...



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Re: First flight crash!

Larry Severson
 

Jim P:

I even
flew Larry in my plane and completed several manuevers including
pitch bucks, approaches, pattern work and landings.
Yes you did, and I appreciated it.

He tried doing a
pitch buck twice and put us in a POI both times.
Absolutely, because I did not have a clear picture of what a pitch buck was. After the fly-in, I got time in a Dragonfly with a go around, 3 touch and goes, and a full stop. During this flight I was taught to identify a pitch buck. It was far more subtle than I was led to believe, and you did not identify the onset.

These kinds of adventures
are what has gotten this plane such a bad rap. It's not the airplane
guys! It's not the airplane!
When the fuselage is mis-rigged by several degrees, it is the manufacture, but not the design. The plane looked so well made that no one noticed the mis-rigging until I was trying to figure out what could have gone wrong. Once the problem was identified, everyone saw it. Until then no one did.

I am willing to help anyone but when they refuse to listen I'm done
helping that individual.
A failure in communication is not ignoring the help. In fact, I had planned to put in all of the suggested changes, but the weather was so nice that I thought I would go fly. The plane will not fly again until the differential brakes, speed brake, and reflexor on a control arm are installed. Now that I have to drop the canard, I will be changing from finger brakes to toe brakes also.

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


removing canard and tail

Larry Severson
 

I would appreciate suggestions on removing the canard.
It looks like the best way is to remove the failing material with a wood chisel and then separating the canard from the fuselage with a hacksaw blade.
Is there a better way?

I plan to lift the front, engine on, with an engine hoist and supporting the aft with a saw horse. Then I can redo the elevator controls and mount the wheel pant on the left canard tip. Finally, I will be lowering the fuselage back on the canard, paying attention to proper rigging.
Any other suggestions?

The tail was mounted vertically in the mis-rigged fuselage, so it will be canted 3-4 degrees to the left when the fuselage is re-rigged.
Given that it is dropped into a bed of flox during the initial installation, does anyone have a suggestion on the best way to break it loose and reinstall it?

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: o200 pistons

Jim Patillo <patillo@...>
 

If you just want to insert the pistons without having to rebore the
rods(i,e,;Klaus set up)use Lycon higher compression pistons and
rings. An easy bolt on for added power. Ken is in Visalia CA @ 1-550-
651-1070.

Jim Patillo Q200 N46JP

--- In Q-LIST@..., fisherb@u... wrote:

Hey guys I got all new cylinders for my o200 any recommendations
on pistons
looking for more power.







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http://www.quickiebuilders.org















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Service.


o200 pistons

Bartholomew Hanson Fisher
 

Hey guys I got all new cylinders for my o200 any recommendations on pistons
looking for more power.







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Re: ] transporting Q buying a trailer

britmcman99
 

I know that you have gone to a lot of trouble trying to justify leaving the
engine on the aircraft. It is one way to go, but I would suggest pulling the
engine. This will probably simplify things in the long run. It will also
spare subjecting your motor mounts and fuselage from some avoidable stress
that may occur during transport. The aircraft was designed to fly. It was not
designed to be moved about on the back of a truck. There are so many ways to
rig a plane for transport and you may do it just right, but I would go for
seperating the heaviest part from the lighter mass.

Good Luck.

Phil Lankford
N870BM


First flight crash!

Jim Patillo <patillo@...>
 

Jim,

Once again you are correct! I don't want to tear Larry up here but in
my opinion he was really unprepared for his first flight. Several of
us talked with him only to find he had the answer for everything. "I
must say he has larger than normal balls".

I personally had conversations with him regarding his plane and
abilities. To which he replied; he had several thousand hours, was a
retired 47 captain (I think)and this was nooooo big deal. I warned
him to progress slowly and to make sure he and his plane were ready
for flight and that this little bird could sneak upon him. I even
flew Larry in my plane and completed several manuevers including
pitch bucks, approaches, pattern work and landings. He tried doing a
pitch buck twice and put us in a POI both times. I came back and told
Farnam it was just a matter of time. I truly hope he got something
out of the first foray but don't think so. These kinds of adventures
are what has gotten this plane such a bad rap. It's not the airplane
guys! It's not the airplane!

I am willing to help anyone but when they refuse to listen I'm done
helping that individual.

Best Regards
Jim Patillo N46JP Q200 525 hours in type

--- In Q-LIST@..., JMasal@a... wrote:
In a message dated 9/21/04 6:37:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
larry2@s... writes:


and a small rudder (QAC designs) created
the crunch as the plane left the RW.
More likely a lack of piloting ability than a lack of rudder.



Re: aft section and other problems

Larry Severson
 

At 01:57 PM 9/22/2004 +0000, you wrote:
Was this meant to be a high speed taxi?
No. I made 13 high speed taxi attempts, the last 8 at 62 MPH, all successful and in control. This was a first flight attempt where accelleration was great until about 64MPH. At that point, there was a noticeable drop in power. Since I had used up quite a bit of runway making a slow power application, I decided to abort. As I pulled the power back, the plane made a hop into the air, bounced before settling onto the runway centerline. At that point, the plane swerved to the right. The mis-rigging of the plane made me put in left aileron to keep wings level during the airborne phases. On touchdown, this translated to adverse yaw driving the plane right. I did not have differential braking and failed to immediately put in the required right aileron to solve the drift. Result - THUMP!

How lomg is your runway?
4600 feet.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: aft section and other problems

Larry Severson
 

More likely a lack of piloting ability than a lack of rudder.
The FAA FSDO disagrees with you. Lack of independent brakes was the final straw. But the primary cause was a fuselage installed with a 4 degree cant to the right and a wing canard not in parallel. Attempts to level wings during the short lift off caused adverse yaw on the ground with the throttle closed.

I will be re-rigging the fuselage to correct the problem. I will also have to take off the tail and fix it, since it was vertical to the ground with the mis-rigged fuselage.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: Sullivan Change-of-Plan

HawkiDoug <hawkidoug@...>
 

Sorry to hear you can't make it Jon! Let me know when you can venture away
from home and we'll do the Mason City IA hook up. Do me a favor & take a
nice photo of your Q and a close up of the Subar - Sonic graphic and email
them to me so I can display them on my web site.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Finley" <jon@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 4:29 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Sullivan Change-of-Plan


Hi all,

I'm afraid there has been a change of plan for my trip to Sullivan. Had
resigned myself to driving a few weeks ago due to lack of flight time
but now something new has come up and I won't be driving down either.

To those that were going to get their prop balanced, I am terribly
sorry. Swing thru Minneapolis on your way home and I'll take care of
it.

Hope everyone has a blast!

Sorry Jeff...

Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 465 Hrs. TT
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/Q2Subaru




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