Date   

Laughlin Parking

Kelly Poor <poorkelly@...>
 

Did anyone find out if we would be able to taxi down to the river and park in the same area as last year?

Kelly


Re: Laughlin next week!

rondefly@...
 

I will be driving my new Toyota Prius there and staying at the Flamingo
also, see you at the dinner.

Ron T

Ron & Carolyn Triano Q-200 N4710P

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
britmcman@...
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:45 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Laughlin next week!

I will be coming in with my darling wife Cherie on Saturday morning (the
30th) to Laughlin. We will be staying the night at the Flamingo Hotel.
What does
the attendance roster look like thus far?



Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM Q-200






Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





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Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

James, I believe that every gravity feed installation should fit free flow in-line pump and a bipass with check valve makes it foolproof (if the check valve is installed right). And every Q should fit a header vent as well.
Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: James Postma
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems


A bypass line with a check valve is an even better idea. I have one.

James Postma

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems


>
> Dick as well as fitting a short up - facing vent I have an electric in -
> line fuel pump. It is important to choose a pump that will free flow when
> switched off.I am using FuelFlow brand which is good for up to 32 gal/hr
> and 5 psi.It cost AUD80 and is good for peace of mind.
> Peter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rbarbour27@...
> To: Q-LIST@...
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
>
>
> Sam - I was on that flight with Art Jewett in Springfield, MO. As I
> remember
> it, while Art was fueling his plane he was talking to the fuel truck
> driver
> and got distracted. He realized he was running a little late so he just
> handed
> the fuel truck driver the hose and quickly latched the gas access door.
> I
> climbed in and off we went. We were at about 100 feet altitude and the
> engine
> just seemed to lose RPM. Art radioed a MAYDAY and the tower operator
> sounded
> the alarm. Art told the tower he was going to do a 180 and land
> downwind. We
> finally made it back to the airport and the tower operator radioed that
> he was
> about 30 seconds from ordering a "foaming of the runway". We taxied back
> to
> the hangar and began, removed the cowl and started looking for any cause
> for
> the problem. Finally, Art opened the gas door and the cap for this
> filler tube
> was laying right along side the opened gas tube. Events like this sure
> take
> one's mind off "hanky-panky." Just thought I'd share that event with the
> brothers that illustrates what can happen when you lose ram air pressure
> in the
> fuel system.
>
> Dick Barbour
> Rogers, AR.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/
>
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>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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http://www.quickiebuilders.org





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Laughlin next week!

Jim Patillo
 

Laughlin Update,

Well it looks like Jennifer and I may be the only Q comming from the
Bay Area next week! Unbeleivable with all these Q's at Livermore and
that we can't muster up anything better.

Mark is out because of continuing stainless exhaust breakage, lack
of time and break in on new cylinders.

Brad is out because he removed his engine a couple of weeks ago to
install rebuilt mags, starter, alternator and stainless exhaust and
things haven't gone according to plan. He's ran out of time.

Jeff is out because of a prop and cowling strike at Mammoth on
Sunday. However Jeff is pretty creative and fast at making a come
back as we have seen in the past.

Bob is out because of a lack of current medical. Alan Thayer is
Bob's only hope if he gets current in the next few days.

That leaves me and its still a week away! I will be flying to my
second home Saturday for a fly in at Calaveras County Airport in the
Sierra foothills.

After that we'll be focusing in Laughlin. Good luck to everyone
attending.

Jim P.


Re: Laughlin next week!

britmcman99
 

I will be coming in with my darling wife Cherie on Saturday morning (the
30th) to Laughlin. We will be staying the night at the Flamingo Hotel. What does
the attendance roster look like thus far?



Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM Q-200


Re: Grass strip!!

DDD <log@...>
 

What size front tire do you have. This is very good news for me also.
Thanks Darrell Daniels

----- Original Message -----
From: <jcrain2@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Grass strip!!




I landed N96BJ on a 2500' grass strip on Sunday with plenty of runway
remaining. Only minimal braking required. I actually had to add power to
get to the end where the EAA meeting was held. During the take off roll I
had plenty of runway still under me after I was in the air. I am excited
that it did so well! I feel like I have lots more options now.
The tri gear conversion was a big factor in the landing and take off.
Directional control problems are non-existent. I don't have to worry about
the tail breaking on rough terrain or bouncing to an out of control
situation. I do have the large nose gear so it will not break like the
earlier ones.
I just can't say enough about the tri gear. I know I am slower than Jim
and Sammy and lots of other Q200s but that just means I will get there maybe
10 minutes later on a cross country leg.

Bruce

___________________________________________________________________
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Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems

French <LJFrench@...>
 

Kevin,
This does sound exactly like what typically happens with a vent problem. I have voiced my opinions on this in the past and you can refer to them in the archives and I'm not the type to beat a dead horse here. I personally was not happy with a fuel system where you had to always ensure the fuel cap was sealed tight.
One interesting note from my manometer testing of the vent system is that the "vacuum" level generated at my fuel fill cap is highest in high angles of attack - worst case being at the point of pitch buck. I can go fly without the fuel cap and the only time my ram vent is overtaken by the "vacuum" on the fuel filler neck is if I fly for a brief time near stall speed.

LF



Sam and gang,

I have to admit, thinking that I scared the hell out of myself because I
didn't tighten the gas cap properly is a bit annoying but at this point,
this line of thinking is making the most sense. If you or anyone has a way
to test this I would appreciate it.

Also, any opinions on a boost pump to give a bit more margin would be
appreciated.

I still may have some engine problems that I want to get to, but I feel sure
that my excitement was fuel related.

Note....I really don't want to do a repeat performance. I'm sure the tower
would appreciate it too.

Kevin

Kevin,

This phenomena of the low pressure air leaking into the fuel system is well
documented. In fact, that was my first thought when I read your e-mail.
Naturally all the gascolator foes come out of the woodwork, but if you have
a leaky gas cap you will have trouble.

It happened to me, to Art Jewett, and to others. I made a mention of it on
my modifications page: http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/modifications.html

Sam

http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/springfling.html







_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Kevin Fortin
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 7:58 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems




Paul and gang,

Aside from the engine friction issue, Paul, you may have something here with
the fuel cap. Mine is not vented, but, after the fact, I found that it was
not tightened particularly well. After my "flight" (I use that term loosely
here) I removed it by pulling up on it and only with moderate force. It
definitely could have leaked some "pressurized air" from the forward facing
vent through a less than sealed cap.

Are you (or anyone else) saying that the venturi effect of the air rushing
by the gas cap cover could be enough of a vacuum to overcome the gravity
feed of the system? If this venturi "vacuum" is enough, it absolutely could
be the source of my fuel problem. Let's face it, a pressure "head" of a 1
1/2 feet or so doesn't take too much to overcome.

This "venturi" effect also explains why it would quit so soon after takeoff.

I still have some issues with general engine heating, but that is a separate
problem. I will address that in a bit.

Thanks again to you and everyone. I REALLY want this one fixed before my
next aerial adventure. The challenge of flying is the reason we do it, but
that was a bit extreme.

Kevin



-----Original Message-----
From: Fisher Paul A. [mailto:FisherPaulA@...]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:48 AM
To: kfortin@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200

Kevin,
Congratulations on your first flight experience! One other thing that
has not been mentioned so far on the list is improper fuel venting. The
fuel vent typically points into the wind to positively pressurize the
fuel system. People have had the symptoms you described on take off
when they forget to put the fuel cap on because the tank doesn't have
sufficient pressure to keep the carburetor fed.

If you blow in your fuel vent (don't blow too hard!). After a few
seconds you should be able to still feel the pressure. If it all leaks
out, then you have a problem.

There are certainly way smarter people on the list than me on engines,
but personally I think your "friction" issue was a by product of your
problem, not the cause.

Just my $0.02!

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200, N17PF ~1160 hours
Taylor Ridge, Illinois, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of Kevin Fortin
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 22:34
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200


Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other firsts
as
well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you can for
your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I lined up
on the runway, hit the throttle and the takeoff went as much per plan as
I could expect. Then after about 10 seconds and at about 100 feet the
engine acted like it ran out of gas. Oh shit. I put the nose down,
declared emergency, and started heading back to the runway which at this
point was obviously too short for the job at hand. Hoping for a plan B,
I hit the throttle, the engine revved up, then slowed again after a few
seconds.
Seeing a connection there I kept pumping the throttle enough to get her
back in the air and around the pattern for my "first" landing. Let's say
the approach was not textbook but I got her back to the ground without
any bounces or anything I could complain about. I let it roll out for a
bit and then started braking. This is where the adrenaline of the
situation got the better of me. I braked too hard and it started pulling
a bit to the right.
When I realized how hard I was braking I let off of the brake (Johnson
bar) then ka-wam, I was headed for the other side of the runway. Damn, I
was just thinking I was going to pull the stunt off. Except for the
embarrassment, all was OK.



Yesterday, and at this point, I am thinking the engine had gotten hot
enough that fuel was boiling in the carb.



Today, to try to reproduce the problem, I tied the tail down and ran the
engine until the oil temp was 190 F, the previous day's takeoff oil
temp.
This was when I noticed what may the real problem. After shutting down,
when I tried to move the prop, it moved with a lot of friction. I
quickly removed the cowl and the sparkplugs to take away the compression
"resistance" and found the engine was still hard to turn. Not knowing
what to do I figured lunch was in order. When I got back from lunch, and
the engine had cooled and it turned as light as I had known it before.



Any ideas of what might cause this "hot" friction? In any case I bet an
engine teardown is in my future.



Kevin











Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links











Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org






_____

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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...
<mailto:Q-LIST-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>

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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.







Quickie Builders Association WEB site
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Yahoo! Groups Links










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http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: Grass strip!!

Bruce Crain
 

Darrell,
I have the tire that came with the kit. I think it is 4". But as you know the nose gear leg is the bigger part that I mentioned. The grass slowed me down after landing which was a big help. I was solo so keep that in mind. Maybe someday I will load to gross somehow with sand bags and see what happens.
How is your tri gear going?
Bruce

-- "DDD" <log@...> wrote:


What size front tire do you have. This is very good news for me also.
Thanks Darrell Daniels

----- Original Message -----
From: <jcrain2@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Grass strip!!




I landed N96BJ on a 2500' grass strip on Sunday with plenty of runway
remaining. Only minimal braking required. I actually had to add power to
get to the end where the EAA meeting was held. During the take off roll I
had plenty of runway still under me after I was in the air. I am excited
that it did so well! I feel like I have lots more options now.
The tri gear conversion was a big factor in the landing and take off.
Directional control problems are non-existent. I don't have to worry about
the tail breaking on rough terrain or bouncing to an out of control
situation. I do have the large nose gear so it will not break like the
earlier ones.
I just can't say enough about the tri gear. I know I am slower than Jim
and Sammy and lots of other Q200s but that just means I will get there maybe
10 minutes later on a cross country leg.

Bruce

___________________________________________________________________
Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links






___________________________________________________________________
Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!


Re: Digest Number 1794

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

1. Where are you getting the rest of your kit?
2. Where are you located?



Sam Hoskins

http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/springfling.html







_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
sean ross
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:58 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Digest Number 1794



Any one have spare tri q plans and ls1 canard plans and templates around.

let me know.

ordering materials soon.

Q-LIST@... wrote:


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "jcrain2@..."
2. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Jim Patillo"
3. Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: britmcman@...
4. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Jim Patillo"
5. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: Mike Dwyer
6. Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Peter Harris"

7. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Peter Harris"

8. N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Kevin Fortin"
9. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Kevin Fortin"
10. Grass strip!!
From: "jcrain2@..."
11. RE: Grass strip!!
From: "Kevin Fortin"
12. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "jcrain2@..."
13. RE: Grass strip!!
From: "jcrain2@..."
14. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: Mark/Pat Pearson/Pound
15. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Kevin Fortin"
16. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Sam Hoskins"
17. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Kevin Fortin"
18. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: OneSkyDog@...
19. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "jcrain2@..."
20. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Kevin Fortin"
21. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: Mark/Pat Pearson/Pound
22. Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: Mike Perry
23. [Fwd: [Dragonflylist] Mountain States Canard Wing Fly-In April 29-31]
From: Sam Kittle
24. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "L Koutz"
25. Re: Q-1 plans and airfoil templates
From: "L Koutz"


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:03:06 GMT
From: "jcrain2@..."
Subject: RE: N275CH First Flight Q200


Kevin,
You are now the "best man for the job". You've got experience!
My hanger mate has been saying for some time now that I should pull a little
power after the wheels come unstuck from the runway to save the engine and
perhaps to keep from a lean situation at full power. I had some surging in
my Q this last weekend on take off. I put the MT propellor on manual and let
it go to 3100 rpm on take off full power. It was surging on take off. I
pulled the power out a little and it cleared up. The fuel filters were just
checked about 15 hours ago. I believe the rpm that I was running was just to
much for the carb to keep up with. Normally I run the MT prop in manual
which lets the rpm go to about 2750 (I can set the adjust in the cockpit).
I do have fuel boost on take off.

I landed and took off from my 1st grass runway this Sun! With the tri-gear
it was a "piece of cake". The take off was very good! I was worried that the
take off would be weak. That is why I set the prop to 3100 rpm. If I had
pulled the rpm back a little or leaned out a little I would not have had the
surge on take off. I am excited about the possibilities! Grass strip! Who'd
a' thunk it!
Bruce


___________________________________________________________________
Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:55:10 -0000
From: "Jim Patillo"
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200



Kevin,

Thanks for the input. It will help solve your problem.


Some answers to Jim's questions:

Gascolator: NO ******** Good

Heat sleeve: YES ******* Good.

Fuel line between carb and oil tank: NO******* OK where does th
efuel line come though the firewall? Is it the shortest run possible?

Aux tank: NO. Straight from header to carb.******* Filters clean?

Fuel on board: About 15 gallons*******OK

Fuel vent: Checked before and after flight. Not hard plugged but who
knows if fuel plugged it on this flight******* This can definetely
cause the problem you described. It happened to me once. Loss of
fuel flow is no fun. I had filled the main, header and aux tank and
mistakenly flipped the aux switch ON before takeoff, thus putting
fuel overboard via the vent tube. NOT GOOD! Carb heat on and off
contineously let me get it back to the runway.

Flow check header tank in flight position: Not in flight position
but it did flow like a racehorse with the tail on the ground. (I
rechecked this as soon as I got it back to the hangar.)

Actual flow I don't know.************There is a minimum FAA
requirement. Bob F correct me if I'm wrong but I think its 15%
greater than the fuel burn for the engine at full power. ie, 9.5 x
15% or 10.9 per hour (gravity flow with fuel pump off). The facet
pump should deliver about 30 gph to the carburator. This is
typically checked with the tail off, fuselage on the mains and rear
on the floor. You might want to do this check prior to another
flight.

Carb Ice: Not Likely at 65 F and dew point about 24F (-4 C on ATIS
before flight).********OK

Heat soak: Now I think that is the question. I did 3 fast taxis with
slow taxis back to the start. Typically, I had done fast taxis back
and forth and I had never seen the oil temp up to 190. I chalked the
higher temp up to the slow taxis and thought it would drop when I
got some air through the engine. I just might have been late and
wrong on that call). Please note it is a long way to the runway and
I was sitting a bit waiting for other aircraft to clear before I was
allowed my fast taxis.*********OK since removing my gascolator I've
been in 100+ weather at OSHKOSH and other places taxiing for
extended time and did not have that problem. It only happened to me
with the gascolator.


Where are you located Kevin?

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On
Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:36 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: N275CH First Flight Q200




Kevin,

Congratulations you're still alive to tell the story. Some have
not
been so lucky.

Do you have a gascolator? Do you have fuel lines running between
the
carb and oil tank? Do you have heat sleeve over the fuel lines? Do
you have an aux tank? How much fuel did you have on board? Are you
sure your ram air to header was free and clear and not blocked by
fuel or some foreign matter? Was the header fuel flowed at the
carb
in flight position (tail off, fuselage on the mains and split line
on
the deck)prior to flight? If so what was the flow in gallons per
hour? Could you have had carb ice? Did you allow the engine to
heat
soak prior to flight?

A lot of 0200 engines are much harder to turn over when they are
hot. What you experienced may be normal especially if your temps
were
very high. Are you around anyone that can verify this condition?

Don't let this mishap deter you. I had a vapor lock at 60 hours
and the engine quit at about 150' off the ground in front of the
tower. I was able to get it around the pattern just as you did
by "pumping the throttle". I discovered the gascolator caused a
vapor
lock, I shit canned it and the rest is history.

Regards,

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Kevin Fortin" wrote:
Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other
firsts as
well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you
can for
your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I
lined up on
the runway, hit the throttle and the takeoff went as much per
plan
as I
could expect. Then after about 10 seconds and at about 100 feet
the
engine
acted like it ran out of gas. Oh shit. I put the nose down,
declared
emergency, and started heading back to the runway which at this
point was
obviously too short for the job at hand. Hoping for a plan B, I
hit
the
throttle, the engine revved up, then slowed again after a few
seconds.
Seeing a connection there I kept pumping the throttle enough to
get
her back
in the air and around the pattern for my "first" landing. Let's
say
the
approach was not textbook but I got her back to the ground
without
any
bounces or anything I could complain about. I let it roll out
for a
bit and
then started braking. This is where the adrenaline of the
situation
got the
better of me. I braked too hard and it started pulling a bit to
the
right.
When I realized how hard I was braking I let off of the brake
(Johnson bar)
then ka-wam, I was headed for the other side of the runway.
Damn, I
was just
thinking I was going to pull the stunt off. Except for the
embarrassment,
all was OK.



Yesterday, and at this point, I am thinking the engine had
gotten
hot enough
that fuel was boiling in the carb.



Today, to try to reproduce the problem, I tied the tail down and
ran the
engine until the oil temp was 190 F, the previous day's takeoff
oil
temp.
This was when I noticed what may the real problem. After
shutting
down, when
I tried to move the prop, it moved with a lot of friction. I
quickly removed
the cowl and the sparkplugs to take away the
compression "resistance" and
found the engine was still hard to turn. Not knowing what to do
I
figured
lunch was in order. When I got back from lunch, and the engine
had
cooled
and it turned as light as I had known it before.



Any ideas of what might cause this "hot" friction? In any case I
bet an
engine teardown is in my future.



Kevin












Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:49:29 EDT
From: britmcman@...
Subject: Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

Kevin:

Engines also seize for heat related tight fit conditions. Some of these are
piston diameter to cylinder wall diameter not sufficient, piston ring gap
not
sufficient ( piston ring can grow shut. Further expansion causes the ring to

bind against the cylinder wall and results in an engine seize), and plain
bearings can also seize. Some of these can self heal if temperatures go
down,
others cause damage.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:10:54 -0000
From: "Jim Patillo"
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200



Kevin,

Phil makes a good point. Do you have a newly rebuilt engine?

Brad's 0200 (Tom Moores airplane) has three or four hundered hours
on it and when Brad shuts down, his prop is hard to turn until it
cools.

Jim P.
--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@a... wrote:
Kevin:

Engines also seize for heat related tight fit conditions. Some of
these are
piston diameter to cylinder wall diameter not sufficient, piston
ring gap not
sufficient ( piston ring can grow shut. Further expansion causes
the ring to
bind against the cylinder wall and results in an engine seize),
and plain
bearings can also seize. Some of these can self heal if
temperatures go down,
others cause damage.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:19:57 -0400
From: Mike Dwyer
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

My 0-200A is way hard to turn when it's hot. That's not your problem.

A couple other questions that haven't been asked so far...
Do you have a vented fuel cap? Yes = bad. I blew up a balloon and
attached it to the fuel vent ram air line. It stayed full over night so
I got no leak. May try that, especially if you have 1/4" fuel line, you
need the ram air pressure.

Do you have any restrictions in your fuel line like a GPH sensor?
Standard MA3 SPA carb?
Gravity feed fuel?
Metal fuel line?

If you can do that well under these conditions you'll do great when the
engine is running!
Keep at it!
Mike Q-200 N3QP



Kevin Fortin wrote:

Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other firsts as
well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you can for
your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I lined up on
the runway, hit the throttle and the takeoff went as much per plan as I
could expect. Then after about 10 seconds and at about 100 feet the engine
acted like it ran out of gas. Oh shit. I put the nose down, declared
emergency, and started heading back to the runway which at this point was
obviously too short for the job at hand. Hoping for a plan B, I hit the
throttle, the engine revved up, then slowed again after a few seconds.
Seeing a connection there I kept pumping the throttle enough to get her
back
in the air and around the pattern for my "first" landing. Let's say the
approach was not textbook but I got her back to the ground without any
bounces or anything I could complain about. I let it roll out for a bit and
then started braking. This is where the adrenaline of the situation got the
better of me. I braked too hard and it started pulling a bit to the right.
When I realized how hard I was braking I let off of the brake (Johnson bar)
then ka-wam, I was headed for the other side of the runway. Damn, I was
just
thinking I was going to pull the stunt off. Except for the embarrassment,
all was OK.



Yesterday, and at this point, I am thinking the engine had gotten hot
enough
that fuel was boiling in the carb.



Today, to try to reproduce the problem, I tied the tail down and ran the
engine until the oil temp was 190 F, the previous day's takeoff oil temp.
This was when I noticed what may the real problem. After shutting down,
when
I tried to move the prop, it moved with a lot of friction. I quickly
removed
the cowl and the sparkplugs to take away the compression "resistance" and
found the engine was still hard to turn. Not knowing what to do I figured
lunch was in order. When I got back from lunch, and the engine had cooled
and it turned as light as I had known it before.



Any ideas of what might cause this "hot" friction? In any case I bet an
engine teardown is in my future.



Kevin





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:43:58 +1000
From: "Peter Harris"

Subject: Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

Kevin congratulations on the way you handled the flight and for the positive
attitude to solve the glitch.
I had similar power surge with a gravity fed Revmaster caused by fuel in the
plans built vent. . Under certain conditions at about 90mph on climb fuel
will remain in that particular fuel vent as gravity works against ram air.
The vent is too long and it points down. There will be no sign of the
problem on the ground. I fitted a short vent upward facing and have had no
further problem.
In an 0-200 the effect would cause fuel level variations in the bowl
affecting mixture but power surge has not been reported before.
if fuel plugged it on this flight

Flow check header tank in flight position: Not in flight position but it did
flow like a racehorse with the tail on the ground. (I rechecked this as soon
as I got it back to the hangar.) Actual flow I don't know.>

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:36 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: N275CH First Flight Q200




Kevin,

Congratulations you're still alive to tell the story. Some have not
been so lucky.

Do you have a gascolator? Do you have fuel lines running between the
carb and oil tank? Do you have heat sleeve over the fuel lines? Do
you have an aux tank? How much fuel did you have on board? Are you
sure your ram air to header was free and clear and not blocked by
fuel or some foreign matter? Was the header fuel flowed at the carb
in flight position (tail off, fuselage on the mains and split line on
the deck)prior to flight? If so what was the flow in gallons per
hour? Could you have had carb ice? Did you allow the engine to heat
soak prior to flight?

A lot of 0200 engines are much harder to turn over when they are
hot. What you experienced may be normal especially if your temps were
very high. Are you around anyone that can verify this condition?

Don't let this mishap deter you. I had a vapor lock at 60 hours
and the engine quit at about 150' off the ground in front of the
tower. I was able to get it around the pattern just as you did
by "pumping the throttle". I discovered the gascolator caused a vapor
lock, I shit canned it and the rest is history.

Regards,

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Kevin Fortin" wrote:
Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other
firsts as
well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you
can for
your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I
=== message truncated ===

---------------------------------
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http://www.quickiebuilders.org






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Re: Digest Number 1794

sean ross <coconutcowboy2002@...>
 

Any one have spare tri q plans and ls1 canard plans and templates around.

let me know.

ordering materials soon.

Q-LIST@... wrote:


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "jcrain2@..."
2. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Jim Patillo"
3. Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: britmcman@...
4. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Jim Patillo"
5. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: Mike Dwyer
6. Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Peter Harris"

7. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Peter Harris"

8. N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Kevin Fortin"
9. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Kevin Fortin"
10. Grass strip!!
From: "jcrain2@..."
11. RE: Grass strip!!
From: "Kevin Fortin"
12. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "jcrain2@..."
13. RE: Grass strip!!
From: "jcrain2@..."
14. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: Mark/Pat Pearson/Pound
15. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Kevin Fortin"
16. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Sam Hoskins"
17. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Kevin Fortin"
18. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: OneSkyDog@...
19. RE: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "jcrain2@..."
20. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Kevin Fortin"
21. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: Mark/Pat Pearson/Pound
22. Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: Mike Perry
23. [Fwd: [Dragonflylist] Mountain States Canard Wing Fly-In April 29-31]
From: Sam Kittle
24. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "L Koutz"
25. Re: Q-1 plans and airfoil templates
From: "L Koutz"


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:03:06 GMT
From: "jcrain2@..."
Subject: RE: N275CH First Flight Q200


Kevin,
You are now the "best man for the job". You've got experience!
My hanger mate has been saying for some time now that I should pull a little power after the wheels come unstuck from the runway to save the engine and perhaps to keep from a lean situation at full power. I had some surging in my Q this last weekend on take off. I put the MT propellor on manual and let it go to 3100 rpm on take off full power. It was surging on take off. I pulled the power out a little and it cleared up. The fuel filters were just checked about 15 hours ago. I believe the rpm that I was running was just to much for the carb to keep up with. Normally I run the MT prop in manual which lets the rpm go to about 2750 (I can set the adjust in the cockpit).
I do have fuel boost on take off.

I landed and took off from my 1st grass runway this Sun! With the tri-gear it was a "piece of cake". The take off was very good! I was worried that the take off would be weak. That is why I set the prop to 3100 rpm. If I had pulled the rpm back a little or leaned out a little I would not have had the surge on take off. I am excited about the possibilities! Grass strip! Who'd a' thunk it!
Bruce


___________________________________________________________________
Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:55:10 -0000
From: "Jim Patillo"
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200



Kevin,

Thanks for the input. It will help solve your problem.


Some answers to Jim's questions:

Gascolator: NO ******** Good

Heat sleeve: YES ******* Good.

Fuel line between carb and oil tank: NO******* OK where does th
efuel line come though the firewall? Is it the shortest run possible?

Aux tank: NO. Straight from header to carb.******* Filters clean?

Fuel on board: About 15 gallons*******OK

Fuel vent: Checked before and after flight. Not hard plugged but who
knows if fuel plugged it on this flight******* This can definetely
cause the problem you described. It happened to me once. Loss of
fuel flow is no fun. I had filled the main, header and aux tank and
mistakenly flipped the aux switch ON before takeoff, thus putting
fuel overboard via the vent tube. NOT GOOD! Carb heat on and off
contineously let me get it back to the runway.

Flow check header tank in flight position: Not in flight position
but it did flow like a racehorse with the tail on the ground. (I
rechecked this as soon as I got it back to the hangar.)

Actual flow I don't know.************There is a minimum FAA
requirement. Bob F correct me if I'm wrong but I think its 15%
greater than the fuel burn for the engine at full power. ie, 9.5 x
15% or 10.9 per hour (gravity flow with fuel pump off). The facet
pump should deliver about 30 gph to the carburator. This is
typically checked with the tail off, fuselage on the mains and rear
on the floor. You might want to do this check prior to another
flight.

Carb Ice: Not Likely at 65 F and dew point about 24F (-4 C on ATIS
before flight).********OK

Heat soak: Now I think that is the question. I did 3 fast taxis with
slow taxis back to the start. Typically, I had done fast taxis back
and forth and I had never seen the oil temp up to 190. I chalked the
higher temp up to the slow taxis and thought it would drop when I
got some air through the engine. I just might have been late and
wrong on that call). Please note it is a long way to the runway and
I was sitting a bit waiting for other aircraft to clear before I was
allowed my fast taxis.*********OK since removing my gascolator I've
been in 100+ weather at OSHKOSH and other places taxiing for
extended time and did not have that problem. It only happened to me
with the gascolator.


Where are you located Kevin?

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On
Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:36 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: N275CH First Flight Q200




Kevin,

Congratulations you're still alive to tell the story. Some have
not
been so lucky.

Do you have a gascolator? Do you have fuel lines running between
the
carb and oil tank? Do you have heat sleeve over the fuel lines? Do
you have an aux tank? How much fuel did you have on board? Are you
sure your ram air to header was free and clear and not blocked by
fuel or some foreign matter? Was the header fuel flowed at the
carb
in flight position (tail off, fuselage on the mains and split line
on
the deck)prior to flight? If so what was the flow in gallons per
hour? Could you have had carb ice? Did you allow the engine to
heat
soak prior to flight?

A lot of 0200 engines are much harder to turn over when they are
hot. What you experienced may be normal especially if your temps
were
very high. Are you around anyone that can verify this condition?

Don't let this mishap deter you. I had a vapor lock at 60 hours
and the engine quit at about 150' off the ground in front of the
tower. I was able to get it around the pattern just as you did
by "pumping the throttle". I discovered the gascolator caused a
vapor
lock, I shit canned it and the rest is history.

Regards,

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Kevin Fortin" wrote:
Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other
firsts as
well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you
can for
your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I
lined up on
the runway, hit the throttle and the takeoff went as much per
plan
as I
could expect. Then after about 10 seconds and at about 100 feet
the
engine
acted like it ran out of gas. Oh shit. I put the nose down,
declared
emergency, and started heading back to the runway which at this
point was
obviously too short for the job at hand. Hoping for a plan B, I
hit
the
throttle, the engine revved up, then slowed again after a few
seconds.
Seeing a connection there I kept pumping the throttle enough to
get
her back
in the air and around the pattern for my "first" landing. Let's
say
the
approach was not textbook but I got her back to the ground
without
any
bounces or anything I could complain about. I let it roll out
for a
bit and
then started braking. This is where the adrenaline of the
situation
got the
better of me. I braked too hard and it started pulling a bit to
the
right.
When I realized how hard I was braking I let off of the brake
(Johnson bar)
then ka-wam, I was headed for the other side of the runway.
Damn, I
was just
thinking I was going to pull the stunt off. Except for the
embarrassment,
all was OK.



Yesterday, and at this point, I am thinking the engine had
gotten
hot enough
that fuel was boiling in the carb.



Today, to try to reproduce the problem, I tied the tail down and
ran the
engine until the oil temp was 190 F, the previous day's takeoff
oil
temp.
This was when I noticed what may the real problem. After
shutting
down, when
I tried to move the prop, it moved with a lot of friction. I
quickly removed
the cowl and the sparkplugs to take away the
compression "resistance" and
found the engine was still hard to turn. Not knowing what to do
I
figured
lunch was in order. When I got back from lunch, and the engine
had
cooled
and it turned as light as I had known it before.



Any ideas of what might cause this "hot" friction? In any case I
bet an
engine teardown is in my future.



Kevin












Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:49:29 EDT
From: britmcman@...
Subject: Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

Kevin:

Engines also seize for heat related tight fit conditions. Some of these are
piston diameter to cylinder wall diameter not sufficient, piston ring gap not
sufficient ( piston ring can grow shut. Further expansion causes the ring to
bind against the cylinder wall and results in an engine seize), and plain
bearings can also seize. Some of these can self heal if temperatures go down,
others cause damage.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:10:54 -0000
From: "Jim Patillo"
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200



Kevin,

Phil makes a good point. Do you have a newly rebuilt engine?

Brad's 0200 (Tom Moores airplane) has three or four hundered hours
on it and when Brad shuts down, his prop is hard to turn until it
cools.

Jim P.
--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@a... wrote:
Kevin:

Engines also seize for heat related tight fit conditions. Some of
these are
piston diameter to cylinder wall diameter not sufficient, piston
ring gap not
sufficient ( piston ring can grow shut. Further expansion causes
the ring to
bind against the cylinder wall and results in an engine seize),
and plain
bearings can also seize. Some of these can self heal if
temperatures go down,
others cause damage.

Cheers,

Phil Lankford
N870BM






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:19:57 -0400
From: Mike Dwyer
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

My 0-200A is way hard to turn when it's hot. That's not your problem.

A couple other questions that haven't been asked so far...
Do you have a vented fuel cap? Yes = bad. I blew up a balloon and
attached it to the fuel vent ram air line. It stayed full over night so
I got no leak. May try that, especially if you have 1/4" fuel line, you
need the ram air pressure.

Do you have any restrictions in your fuel line like a GPH sensor?
Standard MA3 SPA carb?
Gravity feed fuel?
Metal fuel line?

If you can do that well under these conditions you'll do great when the
engine is running!
Keep at it!
Mike Q-200 N3QP



Kevin Fortin wrote:

Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other firsts as
well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you can for
your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I lined up on
the runway, hit the throttle and the takeoff went as much per plan as I
could expect. Then after about 10 seconds and at about 100 feet the engine
acted like it ran out of gas. Oh shit. I put the nose down, declared
emergency, and started heading back to the runway which at this point was
obviously too short for the job at hand. Hoping for a plan B, I hit the
throttle, the engine revved up, then slowed again after a few seconds.
Seeing a connection there I kept pumping the throttle enough to get her back
in the air and around the pattern for my "first" landing. Let's say the
approach was not textbook but I got her back to the ground without any
bounces or anything I could complain about. I let it roll out for a bit and
then started braking. This is where the adrenaline of the situation got the
better of me. I braked too hard and it started pulling a bit to the right.
When I realized how hard I was braking I let off of the brake (Johnson bar)
then ka-wam, I was headed for the other side of the runway. Damn, I was just
thinking I was going to pull the stunt off. Except for the embarrassment,
all was OK.



Yesterday, and at this point, I am thinking the engine had gotten hot enough
that fuel was boiling in the carb.



Today, to try to reproduce the problem, I tied the tail down and ran the
engine until the oil temp was 190 F, the previous day's takeoff oil temp.
This was when I noticed what may the real problem. After shutting down, when
I tried to move the prop, it moved with a lot of friction. I quickly removed
the cowl and the sparkplugs to take away the compression "resistance" and
found the engine was still hard to turn. Not knowing what to do I figured
lunch was in order. When I got back from lunch, and the engine had cooled
and it turned as light as I had known it before.



Any ideas of what might cause this "hot" friction? In any case I bet an
engine teardown is in my future.



Kevin





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:43:58 +1000
From: "Peter Harris"

Subject: Re: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

Kevin congratulations on the way you handled the flight and for the positive attitude to solve the glitch.
I had similar power surge with a gravity fed Revmaster caused by fuel in the plans built vent. . Under certain conditions at about 90mph on climb fuel will remain in that particular fuel vent as gravity works against ram air. The vent is too long and it points down. There will be no sign of the problem on the ground. I fitted a short vent upward facing and have had no further problem.
In an 0-200 the effect would cause fuel level variations in the bowl affecting mixture but power surge has not been reported before.
if fuel plugged it on this flight

Flow check header tank in flight position: Not in flight position but it did
flow like a racehorse with the tail on the ground. (I rechecked this as soon
as I got it back to the hangar.) Actual flow I don't know.>

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:36 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: N275CH First Flight Q200




Kevin,

Congratulations you're still alive to tell the story. Some have not
been so lucky.

Do you have a gascolator? Do you have fuel lines running between the
carb and oil tank? Do you have heat sleeve over the fuel lines? Do
you have an aux tank? How much fuel did you have on board? Are you
sure your ram air to header was free and clear and not blocked by
fuel or some foreign matter? Was the header fuel flowed at the carb
in flight position (tail off, fuselage on the mains and split line on
the deck)prior to flight? If so what was the flow in gallons per
hour? Could you have had carb ice? Did you allow the engine to heat
soak prior to flight?

A lot of 0200 engines are much harder to turn over when they are
hot. What you experienced may be normal especially if your temps were
very high. Are you around anyone that can verify this condition?

Don't let this mishap deter you. I had a vapor lock at 60 hours
and the engine quit at about 150' off the ground in front of the
tower. I was able to get it around the pattern just as you did
by "pumping the throttle". I discovered the gascolator caused a vapor
lock, I shit canned it and the rest is history.

Regards,

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Kevin Fortin" wrote:
Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other
firsts as
well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you
can for
your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I
=== message truncated ===

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!


Re: Digest Number 1795

sean ross <coconutcowboy2002@...>
 

Looking for Tri Q plans and Super Q plans and LS1 canard template drawings.

I am ordering my materials next week.

I am building an o200 with hi comp c-85 pistons and run premium or 100LL in the engine.

Anyone know of any source for the roller rocker and roller cam and lifters and alloy hollow push rods for the 0200 that used to be sold to experimental airplane builders ?.

how about bigger valves with swirl polished heads , bigger stems undercut just back of the valve and a 5 angle valve job.

Any cams out there from any 4 cylinder continental engine that will give me more power ?

one from a c series or 0240 fuel injected engine maybe ?

any idea's from a cam regrinder and have the parko lubrized ?

I plan to use a light speed enginering ignition and a backup slick mag if it is still available.

Q-LIST@... wrote:


There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200
From: "Jim Patillo"
2. Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: rbarbour27@...
3. RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems
From: "Sam Hoskins"


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 04:45:41 -0000
From: "Jim Patillo"
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200



Thanks Mike,

Kevin, I knew someone had the fuel flow info and Mike Dwyer is right
about checking the fuel system for leaks. A blown up baloon on the
vent tube works well to detect leaks.

Jim P


--- In Q-LIST@..., Mike Perry wrote:
Jim: The fuel flow requirement for gravity feed systems is 150%
greater
than "Takeoff fuel consumption of the engine." (FAR 23.995) (my
source is
old, may be renumbered, but I doubt the requirement changed)

Kevin: I suggest you get Tony Bingelis' Book, "Firewall Forward"
and read
the section on fuel systems, esp. the chapter "Fuel Flow Test."
Tony talks
about why you need to do the test in the max climb attitude, as
well as
describing details of how to do the test.

The fuel pressure in all Q2/Q200s is pretty low -- with the header
tank
fuel low the pressure may be less than 0.5 psi. Any restriction to
flow
will be more dramatic with low pressure.

Peter Harris and others have commented on the effects of pressure
changes
in the tank, due to fuel vent, fuel cap or other problems.

Mike Perry

At 04:55 PM 4/18/2005 +0000, Kevin and Jim Patillo wrote:


[snip]



Flow check header tank in flight position: Not in flight position
but it did flow like a racehorse with the tail on the ground. (I
rechecked this as soon as I got it back to the hangar.)

Actual flow I don't know.************There is a minimum FAA
requirement. Bob F correct me if I'm wrong but I think its 15%
greater than the fuel burn for the engine at full power. ie, 9.5 x
15% or 10.9 per hour (gravity flow with fuel pump off). The facet
pump should deliver about 30 gph to the carburator. This is
typically checked with the tail off, fuselage on the mains and rear
on the floor. You might want to do this check prior to another
flight.






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:51:11 EDT
From: rbarbour27@...
Subject: Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems

Sam - I was on that flight with Art Jewett in Springfield, MO. As I remember
it, while Art was fueling his plane he was talking to the fuel truck driver
and got distracted. He realized he was running a little late so he just handed
the fuel truck driver the hose and quickly latched the gas access door. I
climbed in and off we went. We were at about 100 feet altitude and the engine
just seemed to lose RPM. Art radioed a MAYDAY and the tower operator sounded
the alarm. Art told the tower he was going to do a 180 and land downwind. We
finally made it back to the airport and the tower operator radioed that he was
about 30 seconds from ordering a "foaming of the runway". We taxied back to
the hangar and began, removed the cowl and started looking for any cause for
the problem. Finally, Art opened the gas door and the cap for this filler tube
was laying right along side the opened gas tube. Events like this sure take
one's mind off "hanky-panky." Just thought I'd share that event with the
brothers that illustrates what can happen when you lose ram air pressure in the
fuel system.

Dick Barbour
Rogers, AR.






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 05:48:46 -0500
From: "Sam Hoskins"
Subject: RE: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems

Kevin,

You can expect your vent system to have very minor leaks. It would not be
expected to hold pressure over a long period of time. However, you want to
ensure there is more air entering the vent system than there is air leaving
it. Here is how I test mine, crude, but effective.

Crawl under the aircraft and wipe your ram-air vent clean with a towel. Put
your mouth over the tube and blow hard. You will be surprised at the volume
needed to pressurize the system. Quickly put your finger over the vent
tube, hold for 5 or 10 seconds, then release.

When you let go, you should feel air rushing back out of the vent. If you
do, you are ok.

Now, simulate the leak condition that you had and do the experiment again to
check the difference.

Good Luck,

Sam

http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/springfling.html







_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
rbarbour27@...
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:51 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems



Sam - I was on that flight with Art Jewett in Springfield, MO. As I
remember
it, while Art was fueling his plane he was talking to the fuel truck driver
and got distracted. He realized he was running a little late so he just
handed
the fuel truck driver the hose and quickly latched the gas access door. I
climbed in and off we went. We were at about 100 feet altitude and the
engine
just seemed to lose RPM. Art radioed a MAYDAY and the tower operator
sounded
the alarm. Art told the tower he was going to do a 180 and land downwind.
We
finally made it back to the airport and the tower operator radioed that he
was
about 30 seconds from ordering a "foaming of the runway". We taxied back to

the hangar and began, removed the cowl and started looking for any cause for

the problem. Finally, Art opened the gas door and the cap for this filler
tube
was laying right along side the opened gas tube. Events like this sure take

one's mind off "hanky-panky." Just thought I'd share that event with the
brothers that illustrates what can happen when you lose ram air pressure in
the
fuel system.

Dick Barbour
Rogers, AR.






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Re: Q-1 plans and airfoil templates

HawkiDoug <hawkidoug@...>
 

David's CD is the one I was refering to that you can get to from the QBA web site. Go to Resouces/Plans/QuickieSource.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Snow" <1flashq@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST]Q-1 plans and airfoil templates



I believe David Gall is collecting data and is or will be offering downloads or CD.

Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: L Koutz
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST]Q-1 plans and airfoil templates


I have a friend looking for Q-1 plans and templates. Isn't someone selling a CD of this?

Larry


Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.







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Re: Q-1 plans and airfoil templates

Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>
 

I believe David Gall is collecting data and is or will be offering downloads or CD.

Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: L Koutz
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST]Q-1 plans and airfoil templates


I have a friend looking for Q-1 plans and templates. Isn't someone selling a CD of this?

Larry


Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Re: Q-1 plans and airfoil templates

Webcave
 

I have a set. email me for details.
Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: L Koutz <koutzl@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:02:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST]Q-1 plans and airfoil templates



I have a friend looking for Q-1 plans and templates. Isn't someone selling a CD
of this?

Larry



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: [Q-LIST) Q-1 Templates

L Koutz <koutzl@...>
 

Anyone have Q-1 Templates willing to loan or sell. I have a friend who wants to know.

Larry


Re: N275CH First Flight Q200

Jim Patillo
 

Kevin,

After thinking about it, I mis-stated what happened when my vent line
was full of fuel, loosing ram pressure and using the carb heat.

When I had the problem with the fuel vent line full of gas because of
acidently turning on the aux switch with full main header and aux, I
PULLED THE CARB HEAT ON AND THE ENGINE WOULD RUN. WHEN I PUSHED THE
CARB HEAT OFF THE ENGINE WOULD QUIT. Sorry for the confusion. I think
the carb heat was acting as a choke or something to get the fuel to
flow to the carb. I don't know what else the carb heat on would have
done.

Jim P.



--- In Q-LIST@..., "Kevin Fortin" <kfortin@p...> wrote:
Jim,

Thanks for your response. Answers to your questions below:

Question "3" The feed line is about 9" to 10" and looks like it is
best path
or damn close to it. I don't think you could shorten it more than 1
inch if
you had to.

Quetsion "4" Filters clean (also new)

Question "6" What does the carb heat have to do with fuel?
Obviously
something I don't understand here.


Re: N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems

Sickler, Terry L <terry.l.sickler@...>
 

Kevin,
Have you checked the routing of your fuel lines? Are they covered with
Fire Sleeve firewall forward? What type of pump are you using to provide
fuel transfer? Do you leave it on? Do you have a gascolator installed? I
will come by to see you, look over what you have and discuss this, if
you would like. You do realize that your motor has Venolia high
compression racing pistons I it... Right? What type of fuel are you
burning? ~T~

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of Kevin Fortin
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 6:58 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200 potential cap problems




Paul and gang,

Aside from the engine friction issue, Paul, you may have something here
with the fuel cap. Mine is not vented, but, after the fact, I found that
it was not tightened particularly well. After my "flight" (I use that
term loosely
here) I removed it by pulling up on it and only with moderate force. It
definitely could have leaked some "pressurized air" from the forward
facing vent through a less than sealed cap.

Are you (or anyone else) saying that the venturi effect of the air
rushing by the gas cap cover could be enough of a vacuum to overcome the
gravity feed of the system? If this venturi "vacuum" is enough, it
absolutely could be the source of my fuel problem. Let's face it, a
pressure "head" of a 1 1/2 feet or so doesn't take too much to overcome.

This "venturi" effect also explains why it would quit so soon after
takeoff.

I still have some issues with general engine heating, but that is a
separate problem. I will address that in a bit.

Thanks again to you and everyone. I REALLY want this one fixed before my
next aerial adventure. The challenge of flying is the reason we do it,
but that was a bit extreme.

Kevin



-----Original Message-----
From: Fisher Paul A. [mailto:FisherPaulA@...]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:48 AM
To: kfortin@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200

Kevin,
Congratulations on your first flight experience! One other thing that
has not been mentioned so far on the list is improper fuel venting. The
fuel vent typically points into the wind to positively pressurize the
fuel system. People have had the symptoms you described on take off
when they forget to put the fuel cap on because the tank doesn't have
sufficient pressure to keep the carburetor fed.

If you blow in your fuel vent (don't blow too hard!). After a few
seconds you should be able to still feel the pressure. If it all leaks
out, then you have a problem.

There are certainly way smarter people on the list than me on engines,
but personally I think your "friction" issue was a by product of your
problem, not the cause.

Just my $0.02!

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200, N17PF ~1160 hours
Taylor Ridge, Illinois, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf
Of Kevin Fortin
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 22:34
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] N275CH First Flight Q200


Hey guys,



Got N275CH off the ground for the first time and got a few other firsts
as
well:



First engine malfunction



First declared emergency



First time in the dirt (mud)



All this took 60 or so seconds.



The good news is only the airplane and the pilot got muddy.



In a nutshell, I did three fast taxis, felt about as good as you can for
your first shot into the air, then decided to give her a go. I lined up
on the runway, hit the throttle and the takeoff went as much per plan as
I could expect. Then after about 10 seconds and at about 100 feet the
engine acted like it ran out of gas. Oh shit. I put the nose down,
declared emergency, and started heading back to the runway which at this
point was obviously too short for the job at hand. Hoping for a plan B,
I hit the throttle, the engine revved up, then slowed again after a few
seconds. Seeing a connection there I kept pumping the throttle enough to
get her back in the air and around the pattern for my "first" landing.
Let's say the approach was not textbook but I got her back to the ground
without any bounces or anything I could complain about. I let it roll
out for a bit and then started braking. This is where the adrenaline of
the situation got the better of me. I braked too hard and it started
pulling a bit to the right. When I realized how hard I was braking I let
off of the brake (Johnson
bar) then ka-wam, I was headed for the other side of the runway. Damn, I
was just thinking I was going to pull the stunt off. Except for the
embarrassment, all was OK.



Yesterday, and at this point, I am thinking the engine had gotten hot
enough that fuel was boiling in the carb.



Today, to try to reproduce the problem, I tied the tail down and ran the
engine until the oil temp was 190 F, the previous day's takeoff oil
temp. This was when I noticed what may the real problem. After shutting
down, when I tried to move the prop, it moved with a lot of friction. I
quickly removed the cowl and the sparkplugs to take away the compression
"resistance" and found the engine was still hard to turn. Not knowing
what to do I figured lunch was in order. When I got back from lunch, and
the engine had cooled and it turned as light as I had known it before.



Any ideas of what might cause this "hot" friction? In any case I bet an
engine teardown is in my future.



Kevin











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Re: Tandem Wing Spring Fling - Who's Coming?

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

We will be there. Plan on flying the Musketeer.
Jerry & Nancy

Sam Hoskins wrote:

Can you believe it? It's just a few weeks till the second annual Tandem Wing Spring Fling! Read all about it here:
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/springfling.html

I'm trying to get an idea of the magnitude of this event. Please let me know if you planning to attend, or even if you MIGHT make it.

My plane is back in the air (but further work has stalled, as my folks are a little under the weather). You can take a look at my new wheelpants and tell me if you think it was worth the effort.

And remember, the Slick magneto and MA3-SPA carb seminars will be very informative.

Hope to see you there!

Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com









Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: Q-1 plans and airfoil templates

HawkiDoug <hawkidoug@...>
 

Larry, go to the QBA web site and go to Resources and Plans. There is a link to the CD for sale.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: "L Koutz" <koutzl@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST]Q-1 plans and airfoil templates



I have a friend looking for Q-1 plans and templates. Isn't someone selling a CD of this?

Larry



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Tandem Wing Spring Fling - Who's Coming?

Keith L WeL Welsh <welshq1@...>
 

Hi Sam:

I plan to be there as well. Just not sure of the exact plan yet.
Hopin fer good wx.

Keith Welsh

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:03:04 -0000 "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@...>
writes:



Can you believe it? It's just a few weeks till the second annual
Tandem Wing Spring Fling! Read all about it here:
http://home.mchsi.com/~shoskins/springfling.html

I'm trying to get an idea of the magnitude of this event. Please
let
me know if you planning to attend, or even if you MIGHT make it.

My plane is back in the air (but further work has stalled, as my
folks are a little under the weather). You can take a look at my
new
wheelpants and tell me if you think it was worth the effort.

And remember, the Slick magneto and MA3-SPA carb seminars will be
very informative.

Hope to see you there!

Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com








------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~-->
Help save the life of a child. Support St. Jude Children's Research
Hospital's
'Thanks & Giving.'
http://us.click.yahoo.com/6iY7fA/5WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/SyTolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->


Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links