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Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

Ron <rondefly@...>
 

Jay, I think Bob will come up with the right answer with the knowledge from
the business he is in, However, my two cents tells me I think you have a
good idea, Just think of all the sealed auto/ etc. bearings there are out
there in everyday service. I think something sealed would be much better
than the original setup but will wait to see what Bob will say. Either way,
I am not going to change another thing on mine unless it is an emergency. I
really want to get this thing flying. Getting so close I can taste it.



Ron Triano



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jay R. Scheevel
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:05 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] RE: Elevator and Aileron Bushings



Bob F, Thanks for your 2 cents. I have an additional question, since I
have not yet installed my outboard bushings. Do you think it would be
wise to go with a sealed bearing instead, or would that invite
corrosion?

Jay Scheevel -- Tri-Q, still building



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Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

Jay R. Scheevel <scheevel@...>
 

Bob F, Thanks for your 2 cents. I have an additional question, since I
have not yet installed my outboard bushings. Do you think it would be
wise to go with a sealed bearing instead, or would that invite
corrosion?

Jay Scheevel -- Tri-Q, still building


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

damiantwinsport@...
 

Jim, thanks for bring that up .Steel on steel is no Bueno! An Amco 45 bushing would be better or St. Gobain makes some very unique and Low Friction co effeceint linear bearings/ bushings.

Regards,
Damian Gregory N8427 Q200

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 18:41:27 -0000
Subject: [Q-LIST] Elevator and Aileron Bushings


Guys,

I've brought this subject up before but this time I intend to fix it.

I'm doing my condition inspection now and found the elevators and
ailerons have a lot of play at the outside hinge points. You can push
up and down and definitely feel play. I further inspected the other
Q's on the field and found they all have almost the same amount of
play.

Has anyone determined if the bushing is at fault or is it the AN3
pivot point that is wearing, ot both? If so what did you do to fix
it? If it was the steel bushing, what is the new part number to
replace it? Did it solve the problem?

Should people now building consider a better solution? Seems to me
that steel on steel is not the answer!

Regards,

JP

P.S. I tried a cell phone with the new Thirty 3G's and it works
perfectly. Very clear on transmission and reception.






Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


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Re: tail wheel

jeffs912ex@...
 

Damian,

Aviation Products Inc. have the tailwheel assembly you request. I'm not sure
which model is preferred. I don't think they have a web site. I just got a
catalog from them by calling 805 646 6042.

Jeff


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...>
 

A few points about bushings in general. The original bushings, at least in
my airplane, are aluminum, running on a steel (AN3 or AN4) shaft. Aluminum
on steel is a good bushing, as long as it's lubricated. Honda has used such
a bushing arrangement in their motorcycle camshafts. The softer aluminum is
sacrificial, though if lubricated, it lasts a long time. Solid bronze also
works, but Oilite bronze is not the right application. Oilite is porous,
with oil in the spaces between bronze particles. They are designed for
relatively high speed continuous rotation, where the heat causes the oil to
sweat out and the rotation provides pumping to provide a pressurized surface
to float the shaft. It doesn't work that way for slow reciprocating motion
like in control surfaces. Bushings depend upon clearance from 0.001 MINIMUM
to about 0.004 to allow distribution of the lubricant. Measure the play in
your bushings with a dial indicator to see if it more than 0.004 inch. If
it's less than that, don't worry about it. Ideally, the shaft should be
harder than the AN bolts, but the loads are relatively low. Corrosion
resistance is provided by lubrication in our applications. If you want more
resistance, chrome plate or nickel plate the shaft. Also, making overly long
bushings is not recommended, mostly because of alignment problems in a long
rigidly mounted bushing. Bushings are typically no longer than the diameter
of the shaft - occasionally as much as 1.5 x the diameter. Do not use steel
on steel, as it leads to galling and possible seizing. Clearance which is
too small or lack of lubrication will lead to seizing also. Bottom line, I
think the original bushings are properly designed, but have to be kept
lubricated. If you don't want to lubricate, consider using bushings which
are used in agricultural machinery. They are usually plastic lined and self
lubricating.

My 2 cents.

Bob F.
N200QK
EAA Flight Advisor

ALso 45 years experience as a Mech. Engineer and PE, most in machine design.

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:41 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Elevator and Aileron Bushings


Guys,

I've brought this subject up before but this time I intend to fix it.

I'm doing my condition inspection now and found the elevators and
ailerons have a lot of play at the outside hinge points. You can push
up and down and definitely feel play. I further inspected the other
Q's on the field and found they all have almost the same amount of
play.

Has anyone determined if the bushing is at fault or is it the AN3
pivot point that is wearing, ot both? If so what did you do to fix
it? If it was the steel bushing, what is the new part number to
replace it? Did it solve the problem?

Should people now building consider a better solution? Seems to me
that steel on steel is not the answer!

Regards,

JP

P.S. I tried a cell phone with the new Thirty 3G's and it works
perfectly. Very clear on transmission and reception.





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





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Aviation maintenance schools
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Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

Jim Patillo
 

Earnest,

Are those bushings steel, aluminum or bronze,oilite? Do we use two
differenet sizes on the elevator and aileron, I thought they were all
the same size?

Thanks again JP

--- In Q-LIST@..., MartinErni@a... wrote:

Jim,
Look on page 83. I think I used FB46-02 and FF303-01. It's been
a while
but I may have had to drill larger holes.
Earnest




Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

Jim Patillo
 

Thanks,

Did you have to drill out or cut down anything?
JP


--- In Q-LIST@..., MartinErni@a... wrote:

Jim,
Look on page 83. I think I used FB46-02 and FF303-01. It's been
a while
but I may have had to drill larger holes.
Earnest


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

MartinErni@...
 

In a message dated 12/27/2005 1:27:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bfarnam@... writes:

Oilite bronze is not the right application. Oilite is porous,
with oil in the spaces between bronze particles


How is oilite likely to fail? (fracture-wear-seize)


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

MartinErni@...
 

Thanks for the info Bob.
Earnest


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

MartinErni@...
 

Jim,
They are bronze. Seems like I did drill the receptacle for them but
can't remember for sure. I checked the plans and you are correct they are all
1/4.. I looked for an invoice to double check but could not find one.
Earnest


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

MartinErni@...
 

Jim,
Look on page 83. I think I used FB46-02 and FF303-01. It's been a while
but I may have had to drill larger holes.
Earnest


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

Jim Patillo
 

Earnest,

I looked in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. Do you recall the model
number of the bushing?

JP
--- In Q-LIST@..., MartinErni@a... wrote:


In a message dated 12/26/2005 1:44:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
logistics_engineering@m... writes:

Has anyone determined if the bushing is at fault or is it the AN3
pivot point that is wearing, ot both? If so what did you do to fix
it? If it was the steel bushing, what is the new part number to
replace it? Did it solve the problem?



Jim,
I replaced mine with oilite bearings of the same profile from
A/S and
they took out the play. The original bearing was alum and the
pivot was steel.
Earnest


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

French <LJFrench@...>
 

Jim,
When inspecting mine a couple years ago, I noticed that corrosion was a problem on some of them. It causes wear to increase, but in one case it caused the bushing to bind on the pivot pin causing the bushing to turn in the torque tube.
I machined some long bushings out of oilite bronze to increase the wear surface and hopefuly avoid any wear on the pivot pin. Did all the outboard bushings and the top rudder bushing as well. Have not had any problems for two years now.
LF

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Dugas" <davedq2@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Elevator and Aileron Bushings


Jim,
My outboard elevator pivots were actually loose, probably due to a bit of corrossion causing them to turn and eventually loosen. The whole stud was moving around. I removed the elevators and tightened the lock nut that was exposed. You may have to hold the pivot with pliers if it wants to turn when tightening the nut. It also could have been caused by the plywood shrinking up a bit over the years. I also used a thicker grease before I reassembled, hoping that it would keep working longer. My center bushings and hinge pin were fine, and I greased them too. Dave Dugas

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Guys,

I've brought this subject up before but this time I intend to fix it.

I'm doing my condition inspection now and found the elevators and
ailerons have a lot of play at the outside hinge points. You can push
up and down and definitely feel play. I further inspected the other
Q's on the field and found they all have almost the same amount of
play.

Has anyone determined if the bushing is at fault or is it the AN3
pivot point that is wearing, ot both? If so what did you do to fix
it? If it was the steel bushing, what is the new part number to
replace it? Did it solve the problem?

Should people now building consider a better solution? Seems to me
that steel on steel is not the answer!

Regards,

JP

P.S. I tried a cell phone with the new Thirty 3G's and it works
perfectly. Very clear on transmission and reception.



Q2(00) Parts for Sale

Jerry Jerome <jjflyboy@...>
 

I have a Q2 I am parting out after a landing accident over a year ago that
broke the canard and shortened the prop. Of special interest may be the set
of QAC supplied carbon fiber spars I have that I was, at one time, planning
on using to build the LS1. I also have control system parts like the
bushings, pins, and mid span pivots used on the elevators. See my ad at
http://home.comcast.net/~jjflyboy/Q2PartsforSale.html Since the accident I
became disillusioned with the design and am now in the process of completing
an RV3 which has already flown but has had some extensive work done to it
including both of Vans spar modifications. With a 160 HP O-320, it should
be the most fun you can have with your clothes on :-)


Happy New Year,

Jerry Jerome


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

Dave Dugas
 

Jim,
My outboard elevator pivots were actually loose, probably due to a bit of corrossion causing them to turn and eventually loosen. The whole stud was moving around. I removed the elevators and tightened the lock nut that was exposed. You may have to hold the pivot with pliers if it wants to turn when tightening the nut. It also could have been caused by the plywood shrinking up a bit over the years. I also used a thicker grease before I reassembled, hoping that it would keep working longer. My center bushings and hinge pin were fine, and I greased them too. Dave Dugas

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Guys,

I've brought this subject up before but this time I intend to fix it.

I'm doing my condition inspection now and found the elevators and
ailerons have a lot of play at the outside hinge points. You can push
up and down and definitely feel play. I further inspected the other
Q's on the field and found they all have almost the same amount of
play.

Has anyone determined if the bushing is at fault or is it the AN3
pivot point that is wearing, ot both? If so what did you do to fix
it? If it was the steel bushing, what is the new part number to
replace it? Did it solve the problem?

Should people now building consider a better solution? Seems to me
that steel on steel is not the answer!

Regards,

JP

P.S. I tried a cell phone with the new Thirty 3G's and it works
perfectly. Very clear on transmission and reception.





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





SPONSORED LINKS
Aviation maintenance Aviation maintenance training Aviation maintenance schools Aviation maintenance schools Aviation Aviation art

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Elevator and Aileron Bushings

Jim Patillo
 

Guys,

I've brought this subject up before but this time I intend to fix it.

I'm doing my condition inspection now and found the elevators and
ailerons have a lot of play at the outside hinge points. You can push
up and down and definitely feel play. I further inspected the other
Q's on the field and found they all have almost the same amount of
play.

Has anyone determined if the bushing is at fault or is it the AN3
pivot point that is wearing, ot both? If so what did you do to fix
it? If it was the steel bushing, what is the new part number to
replace it? Did it solve the problem?

Should people now building consider a better solution? Seems to me
that steel on steel is not the answer!

Regards,

JP

P.S. I tried a cell phone with the new Thirty 3G's and it works
perfectly. Very clear on transmission and reception.


Re: Elevator and Aileron Bushings

MartinErni@...
 

In a message dated 12/26/2005 1:44:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

Has anyone determined if the bushing is at fault or is it the AN3
pivot point that is wearing, ot both? If so what did you do to fix
it? If it was the steel bushing, what is the new part number to
replace it? Did it solve the problem?



Jim,
I replaced mine with oilite bearings of the same profile from A/S and
they took out the play. The original bearing was alum and the pivot was steel.
Earnest


Re: Headsets

French <LJFrench@...>
 

Jim and all,
Good discussion here for me as well. I will get Lightspeed to exchange mine .... sounds like they don't have mine up to spec yet.
LF

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Patillo" <logistics_engineering@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 6:53 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Headsets



Thanks guys for all the input re; the headsets. You made my decision
easier!
Merry Christmas to all!

Jim P.


--- In Q-LIST@..., Dave Dugas <davedq2@y...> wrote:

Jim,
I've got the Thirty Gs and have had them for2 years. They are
very comfortable even with glasses on, because of the soft earcups, I
guess. You'll love em...don't lend them out, you might not get them
back! Merry Christmas. Dave D

Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@m...> wrote:
I've used Lightspeed 25XL headsets for a while and am about to
purchase
a couple new Thirty G's. Anyone got any experience with them?

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org





SPONSORED LINKS
Aviation maintenance Aviation maintenance training
Aviation maintenance schools Aviation maintenance schools
Aviation Aviation art

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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Re: Q-Talk

David Posey <dlposey-atlanta@...>
 

Jerry Marstall wrote:

Hey Gang, how about a standing ovation for Doug for the outstanding job he has done with the newsletter over the last year.
Q-talk is the builders bible, and we need to show reverence and appreciation to the man who keeps those scriptures coming.
Thanks Doug!!!!!!!!!!!!






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Great job Doug.
Thanks,
David Posey


Two fatal today

Jim Patillo
 

Weather was close to minimums today. Fortunately no one we knew!

LIVERMORE - Two people died in the crash of a small plane Friday
afternoon near Livermore, police said.
The plane, which is registered to Medic Air out of Santa Barbara, went
down in the Altamont Pass about seven miles east of the Livermore
Municipal Airport, said Paul Turk, spokesman for the Federal Aviation
Adminstration.
The flight originated out of Santa Barbara.
The crash occurred around 3:20 p.m. as the plane, a Beech 36 Bonanza,
was attempting to land in Livermore. The single-engine aircraft seats
four to six.