The Carroll Smiley - famous TV presenter? http://www.carolsmillie.tv/

Jim,

At the risk of starting a firestorm, I believe if this aircraft had a
gascolator he may not have had a problem. Here is what a drop of fuel goes
through to get to my engine:

Main tank > glass filter > facet pump > header tank > gascolator > last
chance carburetor inlet filter > carb.



The glass filter is visible to me and when I turn on the header pump I can
visually check fuel flow. I replace it during my annual condition
inspection.



Also, there is a gray plastic snap-on lock which is available for these
filters. It attaches to the outside of the filter and prevents the filter
from unscrewing itself.



What was clogging the filter? Was it clogged from the inside or outside?
If it was goo, rather than particulate matter, he may still have problems.



See you at OSH?



Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:08 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Alert! Alert!



Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo

Put Carroll Smiley down for 3 total.

Aloha guys
What about the use of 2 filters?
The fuel line could have an "Y" conection for use of 2 independent filters and another "Y" inverted connection to go bake to fuel line.
In case one is plugged the extra remains working.
Castro

In case one is plugged

I agree Mike. I always change my fuel filter at annual. I
specifically used cheap automotive filters ($2-3 each), so I wouldn't
be tempted to try to extend their life. I'm sure the fancy glass ones
look pretty, but are you willing to throw it away every year?

After removing the filter, I always break it open to inspect the paper
element. So far I haven't had any problems. They haven't been
plugged up, nor have they fallen apart. I HAVE found little bits in
the filter, so I know the filter is doing its job. I only use 100LL,
so I don't know what problem people are having with Avgas.

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200 N17PF - ~1200 hours

As a longtime homebuilder, A&P, and DAR, I echo what Jim Patillo says about checking/replacing fuel filters often. It would be nice (sorta) if the automotive/motorcycle/ultralight fuel filters had an internal bypass to allow fuel to flow if they were plugged, but I've not been able to find any that have that feature. Without that, the only way to know the filter is open is to check it or replace it frequently.

When I certificate existing an "ultralight-type vehicles" that has already been flown for some time and are being certificated as experimental light-sport aircraft (ELSA), I insist that the owner replace the fuel filter (since they are cheap anyway). In my ELSA repairman courses, I also recommend the owner do the same thing at each annual, or more frequently.

Of course, when a plugged filter is encountered, the other question is, "Why is it plugged?" Is there contamination in the tank that needs to be cleaned out? Is some sealant material becoming dislodged? Is the fiberglass disentegrating? It bears examining the plugged filter to try and find out.

A couple of other things regarding filters bear mentioning:
a.. There have been reports that some paper-element automotive filters do not stand up well to aviation fuel. Unfortunately I cannot narrow down that statement any further.
b.. I have seen the cylindrical glass filters installed upside down (so the flow is in the wrong direction). If that is the case, the filter element can come loose inside the glass cylinder and block the output port (which is really the input).
Take it for what it's worth--free advice!!

Mike Huffman

On 14-Jul-06, at 11:07 AM, Jim Patillo wrote:
Add on to Group I have had one gradually block off in my DRAGONFLY I
lost power and made Emergancy landing. When I looked at filter it
looked like new from outside .it din't look blocked but it was.These
are very dangerous filters
Reg Clarke /Q2 N624JC

Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo

In a message dated 7/14/2006 11:27:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:



Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

Don't check them, Chuck them in the trash. If you need a see thru filter use
a Fram G3 but not in the engine compartment. They have about 30 times more
filter surface area. Those custom car filters have taken down more than one
airplane.

Regards,

One Sky Dog

Reg,
Any filter is dangerous if not changed regularly.
Earnest

This is an enjoyable look at a lot places to go and see in the good ol USA.
Make sure your speakers are working.





http://objflicks.com/mybeautifulamerica.htm

Bob Farnam
N200QK

Group,

Anyone using those small see thru glass fuel filters should check them
right away and do so on a regular basis. The filters are small and can
plug rather easily. Last week I had to fly over and help a pilot that
had an engine failure over central California and had to dead stick
from the plane from 6,500' to a landing at Modesto, CA. No damage to
either the pilot or plane.

The only reason I'm bringing this up now is because if I didn't say
anything and it happened to someone else I would feel terrible. The
engine started surging near the border in Norther California and
finally quiting near Modesto, CA. He had looked at the filters within
two hours before.

When I saw the lack of fuel flow at the carburator, my first
suggestion was to pull the filters and verify. Sure enough the filters
looked clean but you could barely blow through them. Once replaced the
plane flew on to its destination.

Its these small things that can mess upo your day, HEADS UP!

Regards,
JIm Patillo

Mike,
The internal shaft of these glass filters should be drilled and a cotter
pin installed to prevent it from working loose.
Earnest

Just one more reminder to let me know if you will be attending the Hotdog roast Friday July 28th at 6 pm at my campsite. I have been keeping track so if you have responded, no need to respond again. Anyone who has not responded, please do so soon.

Come to the Forum at 4pm and I'll confirm where my campsite is. I should be near where I was last year which was near 17th and Cottonwood in Camp Scholler.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

Contact Tim on the Dragonfly site at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dragonflylist/?yguid=34311202
He's selling his engine and putting an 0200 in.

Jim Patillo

--- In Q-LIST@..., <raoborg@...> wrote:

Tks Jim, there is a guy in Torrance with a revmaster 2100D,with all

accessories and low hours, is on ebay and I was thinking about it but
I would like one of our members to take a look and report.I will try
to get in touch with that fellow. Thank you Raoul

--- logistics_engineering@... wrote:

From: "Jim Patillo" <logistics_engineering@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Quickie escape & misc
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:24:36 -0000

Raoul,

We are in Livermore, CA several hundred miles north. However Tim
Iverson has his Dragonfly at Torrance and is pretty active.

Jim Patillo

Jim Patillo --- In Q-LIST@..., <raoborg@> wrote:

Hi Jim. How far are you from Torrance? Raoul

--- logistics_engineering@ wrote:

From: "Jim Patillo" <logistics_engineering@>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Quickie escape & misc
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:19:00 -0000

Anything excessive is cause for concern, weight, twist, angle,

wing

incidence, two much filler, excessive fuel lines and pumps, and on
and on. The question in these conversations has always been what

is

excessive and by whose standards. QAC in all their infinate wisdon
gave you the basics to build the airplane. Their plans as everyone
knows, left a lot to be desired.
The rest comes from people who fly these planes and their real

world

experiences. You can listen to whom ever you choose. Just

remember,

when you take your first few flights who you listened to.

Jim Patillo





--- In Q-LIST@..., "Ron" <rondefly@> wrote:

Allen, you will find a varied answer to you questions on this

list, concider

all and make your best decision.
1) I remember building my dragonfly and someone came up with a

quick release

canopy hinge and all it was was a cable hooked to the pins that

could be

released by just pulling on the cable, I'm sure several

improvments can be

made but the basic idea is there if you want.
2) I am not into MM but the best wing and canard are true to

their

design, I

think one lower than the other may not be to much of a concern

and may

balance out in high speed taxi testing, I would be real

concerned

about

excessive twist.
3) Gravity feed works well and I would get rid of it, I used -6

lines and

used the same fuel line as the race cars do, it is stainless

wrapped and has

a great fire rateing. Many have the clear fuel level working in

the cockpit,

I went with electronic level sender.
enjoy


Ron Triano `°º¤ø, ‹(•¿•)›

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10

.html

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11

.html

_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On

Behalf Of

Allan Farr
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:12 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Quickie escape & misc



Hi. Some dumb questions :(
1. As most will know, the hinge on the side-hinged canopy is

bolted to the

longeron with 4 bolts. In order to enable a quick escape in an

emergency

(inverted on the runway/trickling fuel etc), could the bolts be

replaced

with some that have drilled shanks, and the nuts be replaced

with

washers

held in place by lock-pins? Afterall, the hinge itself has one

long pin

holding it together.
2. The starboard tip of my canard is 15mm higher than the port

tip, and the

starboard tip of the main wing is 20mm lower than the port tip,

should I be

concerned?
3. Regarding getting rid of the manual fuel pump - isn't the

possibility of

it leaking greater than the possibility of ever needing it?

Wouldn't it be a

good idea to get rid of all unnecessary fuel lines within the

cockpit

(including the header tank sight gauge)?
Allan F
Q2

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

Tks Jim, there is a guy in Torrance with a revmaster 2100D,with all accessories and low hours, is on ebay and I was thinking about it but I would like one of our members to take a look and report.I will try to get in touch with that fellow. Thank you Raoul

--- logistics_engineering@... wrote:

From: "Jim Patillo" <logistics_engineering@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Quickie escape & misc
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:24:36 -0000

Raoul,

We are in Livermore, CA several hundred miles north. However Tim
Iverson has his Dragonfly at Torrance and is pretty active.

Jim Patillo

Jim Patillo --- In Q-LIST@..., <raoborg@...> wrote:

Hi Jim. How far are you from Torrance? Raoul

--- logistics_engineering@... wrote:

From: "Jim Patillo" <logistics_engineering@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Quickie escape & misc
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:19:00 -0000

Anything excessive is cause for concern, weight, twist, angle,

wing

incidence, two much filler, excessive fuel lines and pumps, and on
and on. The question in these conversations has always been what

is

excessive and by whose standards. QAC in all their infinate wisdon
gave you the basics to build the airplane. Their plans as everyone
knows, left a lot to be desired.
The rest comes from people who fly these planes and their real

world

experiences. You can listen to whom ever you choose. Just

remember,

when you take your first few flights who you listened to.

Jim Patillo





--- In Q-LIST@..., "Ron" <rondefly@> wrote:

Allen, you will find a varied answer to you questions on this

list, concider

all and make your best decision.
1) I remember building my dragonfly and someone came up with a

quick release

canopy hinge and all it was was a cable hooked to the pins that

could be

released by just pulling on the cable, I'm sure several

improvments can be

made but the basic idea is there if you want.
2) I am not into MM but the best wing and canard are true to

their

design, I

think one lower than the other may not be to much of a concern

and may

balance out in high speed taxi testing, I would be real

concerned

about

excessive twist.
3) Gravity feed works well and I would get rid of it, I used -6

lines and

used the same fuel line as the race cars do, it is stainless

wrapped and has

a great fire rateing. Many have the clear fuel level working in

the cockpit,

I went with electronic level sender.
enjoy


Ron Triano `°º¤ø, ‹(•¿•)›

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10

.html

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11

.html

_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On

Behalf Of

Allan Farr
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:12 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Quickie escape & misc



Hi. Some dumb questions :(
1. As most will know, the hinge on the side-hinged canopy is

bolted to the

longeron with 4 bolts. In order to enable a quick escape in an

emergency

(inverted on the runway/trickling fuel etc), could the bolts be

replaced

with some that have drilled shanks, and the nuts be replaced

with

washers

held in place by lock-pins? Afterall, the hinge itself has one

long pin

holding it together.
2. The starboard tip of my canard is 15mm higher than the port

tip, and the

starboard tip of the main wing is 20mm lower than the port tip,

should I be

concerned?
3. Regarding getting rid of the manual fuel pump - isn't the

possibility of

it leaking greater than the possibility of ever needing it?

Wouldn't it be a

good idea to get rid of all unnecessary fuel lines within the

cockpit

(including the header tank sight gauge)?
Allan F
Q2

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

Chris,

Is that without header fuel and oil? If so its gonna get worse!

Jim Patillo
--- In Q-LIST@..., "chris rayner" <chris-rayner@...>
wrote:

Larry, I did receive your Excel file Tuesday. I have been

compiling a similar sheet for my own craft so it was pretty useful
thanks. I did find that my Q is 0.5" nose heavy (outside forward
limit) when at the lightest likely weight, but that is another
matter which I'll have to think about.

Chris Rayner.
----- Original Message -----
From: larry severson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Weight and balance


At 04:47 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote:

>Larry,
>
>I don't think you can send attachments to this website. You

have to

>e-mail the recepient directly.

I know that. I had thought that I had replaced the group name

with

his, but didn't.

Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well there you go!

Raoul,

We are in Livermore, CA several hundred miles north. However Tim
Iverson has his Dragonfly at Torrance and is pretty active.

Jim Patillo

Jim Patillo --- In Q-LIST@..., <raoborg@...> wrote:

Hi Jim. How far are you from Torrance? Raoul

--- logistics_engineering@... wrote:

From: "Jim Patillo" <logistics_engineering@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Quickie escape & misc
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:19:00 -0000

Anything excessive is cause for concern, weight, twist, angle,

wing

incidence, two much filler, excessive fuel lines and pumps, and on
and on. The question in these conversations has always been what

is

excessive and by whose standards. QAC in all their infinate wisdon
gave you the basics to build the airplane. Their plans as everyone
knows, left a lot to be desired.
The rest comes from people who fly these planes and their real

world

experiences. You can listen to whom ever you choose. Just

remember,

when you take your first few flights who you listened to.

Jim Patillo





--- In Q-LIST@..., "Ron" <rondefly@> wrote:

Allen, you will find a varied answer to you questions on this

list, concider

all and make your best decision.
1) I remember building my dragonfly and someone came up with a

quick release

canopy hinge and all it was was a cable hooked to the pins that

could be

released by just pulling on the cable, I'm sure several

improvments can be

made but the basic idea is there if you want.
2) I am not into MM but the best wing and canard are true to

their

design, I

think one lower than the other may not be to much of a concern

and may

balance out in high speed taxi testing, I would be real

concerned

about

excessive twist.
3) Gravity feed works well and I would get rid of it, I used -6

lines and

used the same fuel line as the race cars do, it is stainless

wrapped and has

a great fire rateing. Many have the clear fuel level working in

the cockpit,

I went with electronic level sender.
enjoy


Ron Triano `°º¤ø, ‹(•¿•)›

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10

.html

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11

.html

_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On

Behalf Of

Allan Farr
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:12 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Quickie escape & misc



Hi. Some dumb questions :(
1. As most will know, the hinge on the side-hinged canopy is

bolted to the

longeron with 4 bolts. In order to enable a quick escape in an

emergency

(inverted on the runway/trickling fuel etc), could the bolts be

replaced

with some that have drilled shanks, and the nuts be replaced

with

washers

held in place by lock-pins? Afterall, the hinge itself has one

long pin

holding it together.
2. The starboard tip of my canard is 15mm higher than the port

tip, and the

starboard tip of the main wing is 20mm lower than the port tip,

should I be

concerned?
3. Regarding getting rid of the manual fuel pump - isn't the

possibility of

it leaking greater than the possibility of ever needing it?

Wouldn't it be a

good idea to get rid of all unnecessary fuel lines within the

cockpit

(including the header tank sight gauge)?
Allan F
Q2

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

Larry, I did receive your Excel file Tuesday. I have been compiling a similar sheet for my own craft so it was pretty useful thanks. I did find that my Q is 0.5" nose heavy (outside forward limit) when at the lightest likely weight, but that is another matter which I'll have to think about.
Chris Rayner.

Hi Jim. How far are you from Torrance? Raoul

--- logistics_engineering@... wrote:

From: "Jim Patillo" <logistics_engineering@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Quickie escape & misc
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:19:00 -0000

Anything excessive is cause for concern, weight, twist, angle, wing
incidence, two much filler, excessive fuel lines and pumps, and on
and on. The question in these conversations has always been what is
excessive and by whose standards. QAC in all their infinate wisdon
gave you the basics to build the airplane. Their plans as everyone
knows, left a lot to be desired.
The rest comes from people who fly these planes and their real world
experiences. You can listen to whom ever you choose. Just remember,
when you take your first few flights who you listened to.

Jim Patillo





--- In Q-LIST@..., "Ron" <rondefly@...> wrote:

Allen, you will find a varied answer to you questions on this

list, concider

all and make your best decision.
1) I remember building my dragonfly and someone came up with a

quick release

canopy hinge and all it was was a cable hooked to the pins that

could be

released by just pulling on the cable, I'm sure several

improvments can be

made but the basic idea is there if you want.
2) I am not into MM but the best wing and canard are true to their

design, I

think one lower than the other may not be to much of a concern

and may

balance out in high speed taxi testing, I would be real concerned

about

excessive twist.
3) Gravity feed works well and I would get rid of it, I used -6

lines and

used the same fuel line as the race cars do, it is stainless

wrapped and has

a great fire rateing. Many have the clear fuel level working in

the cockpit,

I went with electronic level sender.
enjoy


Ron Triano `°º¤ø, ‹(•¿•)›

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10
.html

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11
.html

_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On

Behalf Of

Allan Farr
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:12 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Quickie escape & misc



Hi. Some dumb questions :(
1. As most will know, the hinge on the side-hinged canopy is

bolted to the

longeron with 4 bolts. In order to enable a quick escape in an

emergency

(inverted on the runway/trickling fuel etc), could the bolts be

replaced

with some that have drilled shanks, and the nuts be replaced with

washers

held in place by lock-pins? Afterall, the hinge itself has one

long pin

holding it together.
2. The starboard tip of my canard is 15mm higher than the port

tip, and the

starboard tip of the main wing is 20mm lower than the port tip,

should I be

concerned?
3. Regarding getting rid of the manual fuel pump - isn't the

possibility of

it leaking greater than the possibility of ever needing it?

Wouldn't it be a

good idea to get rid of all unnecessary fuel lines within the

cockpit

(including the header tank sight gauge)?
Allan F
Q2

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.