Date   

Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

Dave Richardson <dave@...>
 

You're right Doug. There is a plane called an Eagle 150. If you are on
AvWeb this link should work



http://www.avweb.com/news/newacft/182746-1.html



We saw this plane as Sun 'n Fun several years ago. They had some neat
ideas on the plane including engine cooling air outlets that spill out
in the low pressure area over the top of the canard (like a Quicke)
instead of under the bottom of the fuselage. If I recall correctly,
they added several aerodynamic tricks to the wings to "let" it stall
more like a Cessna 150 than a canard aircraft. They had some triangular
shapes on the leading edge of the main wing as well as some fences
outboard. Interesting planes. Q1 pilot Nate Peck was doing demo rides
for the company when we saw it back then.



Dave



_____

From: Doug Humble [mailto:hawkidoug@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 10:24 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin
headroom.



Please don't take offense Chris - but I think the "flogging" was before
you acknowledge you wanted to make significant changes to the Quickie
design. This list isn't meant for those kind of discussions. I'm not
sure the Performance list is either, but I don't belong. We are
basically here to help those building the Q2/Q200 in its current form.
The successful builders and fliers here try to steer the new people away
from drastic design changes and that is sometimes considered "flogging".
The intent is to keep everyone safe and, on a more shellfish level, keep
our birds reputation from going down the toilet.

It seems to me that there is a design with three flying surfaces out
there, but I can not remember what it is called. I'll keep searching
until I find it for you.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 8:36 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin
headroom.

Here is what has me all fired about about a stabilizer and elevator
on the Tail:

Quote:

Hi Chris,

Here is quick summary of what I know about adding a T tail to a
tandem Wing airplane:

1. DO NOT add anything other than a sub foot span sized T tail to
your Project unless you are a structural engineer or you have a
structural engineer direct your modification effort by calculating
how much reinforcement the tail cone and vertical fin will need for
a given size H. Stab.

2. The T tail opens up the performance envelope of a tandem wing
plane. They cruise faster by 5-10% and land slower by about the
same margin. The glide slope angle is much more controllable and
approach speed is much more manageable with an elevator on an aft
stabilizer driving the pitch control. As a side benefit, you don't
need elevators on the front wing any more once elevators are
installed on a medium sized H. Stab. so you can add flaps to both
wings. This reduces the stall speed yet further and turns the
planes into STOL capable performers.

3. The elevator on the T tail can work on conjunction with the
canard Elevators if you don't want to modify the standard dragonfly
control system beyond adding an elevator to a T tail stabilizer. I
found in my X plane simulation of a Q200+ 5' span T tail H. Stab.
that reducing the canard elevator throw to about 20%of normal and
using the elevator on the T tail for most of the pitch control made
a much easier flying plane than an unmodified Q200 for the same
reason above: slow flight was much more controllable and speed
management was much better.

It was possible to slow the plane down in a 2g steep turn and have a
steeper glide slope than without the T tail. Stalls are more
predictable and flare can be much deeper without the pitch buck
or "nodding" that canard planes do when at minimum speed. No
smashing nose first into the runway when coming in too slow.

4. The X plane simulation T tail Q200 had snappier handling than
the Unmodified Q200 and was much more fun to fly around. The normal
Q200 feels a lot like a C172 or Boeing 737. the T tail Q200 feels
more like an Extra 300.

5. I gave up my plans to build a Q200 and have since designed my
own T Tail Q200 variant. Once I finish my mechanical engineering
degree I will conduct a series of structural analyses and design the
airframe. The aerodynamic characteristics of the X plane model of
this design will be proven with a 1/3
scale radio controlled model.

------------------

--- In Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Darrell Daniels" <log@...> wrote:

Chris,
I was thinking one goy on the group had a T Tail and took the
tail off.
Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher" <qdf_files@...>
To: < Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:29 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin
headroom.


David,

Thanks for responding... I, if I am being told accurate
information
is that the performance envelope of the Q are opened up with a T-
Tail allowing slower approach speeds if the a stabilizer with an
elevator is added to the top of the tail which is five to six
feet
long becoming a tri-foil aircraft... if you wan't to call it
that.

I wanted to look into deleting the elevators off the canard, if
this
can be done. I don't care if the airplane becomes something else
if
the performance is improved by as much as 10%.

Due to the public floggings of opinion which come about from
someone
even suggesting a radical change to these airplanes I want to
keep
discussion off list, if you would be willing to do so. I have
been
referred to you for some other questions I had too.

I have a DF, but the way I see it, except for the length of the
wings they are the same airplane, essentially and this mod, if it
works as well as claimed by someone who did a study on the T-
Tail,
would apply to either aircraft. This group is much more active
than
the DFly group so I passed the question here about this
possibility
plus I wanted to look into the idea of flapperons, but not my
main
thrust of interest, mainly the T Tail and perhaps a raised
canopy so
I don't hit my head on the top.

Christopher

-- In Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"David J. Gall" <David@> wrote:

What was the project?


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 5:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher
cabin headroom.

That's the same thing an engineer told me on another project
which suceeded.

Christopher

Tht--- In Q-LIST@...
<mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> , oneskydog@ wrote:


In a message dated 9/13/2006 8:12:52 AM Mountain Daylight
Time,
qdf_files@ writes:

I'm pretty dedicated
towards doing something different from a regular Q or DF
with
my
project even if it takes me ten years to finish it. I want
to
put
a
T-Tail on it as the sole elevator and perhaps look into
flapperons
for both wings.



.
DOA RIP

Regards,

One Sky Dog





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org <http://www.quickiebuilders.org>


Yahoo! Groups Links










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the tires with air??

chris rayner <chris-rayner@...>
 

Ritz, I pondered about it awhile. I then drilled a hole about 3/4" diameter directly under the axle and carefully aligned with the valve. I couldn't use my car foot pump as the connector is not the right shape, so I use a bicycle pump with the flexible extension and screw it on by rotating the pump. You may have to lock the end of the flex hose to allow this - I used a little flox to stop the end turning on its own. It works fine though. Just my arms get the exercise instead of my legs - and I need to sit down to pump.... instead of afterwards like with my car tyres.
Chris Rayner

----- Original Message -----
From: q2blueskies
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 2:11 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the tires with air??


Hello evryone in the Q Group....
My Q2 is finally home, in the work shop and ready to work on...
I am embarrassed to ask?..
Ok...Am I missing somen? (smile)....
How do you fill the tires with air...
Twice we have moved my Q2 to get where it is... and twice, no one with
me, has been able get to the valve, even see the valve stem, for the
simple task of filing the tires up?.. So I turn to you for help?..
Thanking you in advance..
RITZ


Re: First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the tires with air??

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

I have a hole in the wheelpant where I can stick a stem extension in and fill the tire without removing it. The only trick is drilling the whole in the right location. Good luck.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: shoskins@...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 9:02 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the tires with air??


Ritz,
Learn how to pull the wheel. It's pretty easy, check the plans under the wheel
assembly area. I have not found a suitable extension that will allow filling
from the outside. Maybe Patillio or Farnum bave come up with a better
soultion, but it escapes me. I have to add air a couple times a year.
I find that whenever I fill the tire with air, on my workbench, I have to
firmly backup the stem with a screwdriver or other tool, to keep it from moving.
BTW, I now inflate to 50 psi.
Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL


Heavy Duty Nose Gear

kr2flyer1986
 

Getting close on my triQ-200.
Need to find a heavy duty nose gear!
Any suggestion.
Bob Clark
Ankeny Iowa



---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.


Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

Please don't take offense Chris - but I think the "flogging" was before you acknowledge you wanted to make significant changes to the Quickie design. This list isn't meant for those kind of discussions. I'm not sure the Performance list is either, but I don't belong. We are basically here to help those building the Q2/Q200 in its current form. The successful builders and fliers here try to steer the new people away from drastic design changes and that is sometimes considered "flogging". The intent is to keep everyone safe and, on a more shellfish level, keep our birds reputation from going down the toilet.

It seems to me that there is a design with three flying surfaces out there, but I can not remember what it is called. I'll keep searching until I find it for you.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 8:36 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.


Here is what has me all fired about about a stabilizer and elevator
on the Tail:

Quote:

Hi Chris,

Here is quick summary of what I know about adding a T tail to a
tandem Wing airplane:

1. DO NOT add anything other than a sub foot span sized T tail to
your Project unless you are a structural engineer or you have a
structural engineer direct your modification effort by calculating
how much reinforcement the tail cone and vertical fin will need for
a given size H. Stab.

2. The T tail opens up the performance envelope of a tandem wing
plane. They cruise faster by 5-10% and land slower by about the
same margin. The glide slope angle is much more controllable and
approach speed is much more manageable with an elevator on an aft
stabilizer driving the pitch control. As a side benefit, you don't
need elevators on the front wing any more once elevators are
installed on a medium sized H. Stab. so you can add flaps to both
wings. This reduces the stall speed yet further and turns the
planes into STOL capable performers.

3. The elevator on the T tail can work on conjunction with the
canard Elevators if you don't want to modify the standard dragonfly
control system beyond adding an elevator to a T tail stabilizer. I
found in my X plane simulation of a Q200+ 5' span T tail H. Stab.
that reducing the canard elevator throw to about 20%of normal and
using the elevator on the T tail for most of the pitch control made
a much easier flying plane than an unmodified Q200 for the same
reason above: slow flight was much more controllable and speed
management was much better.

It was possible to slow the plane down in a 2g steep turn and have a
steeper glide slope than without the T tail. Stalls are more
predictable and flare can be much deeper without the pitch buck
or "nodding" that canard planes do when at minimum speed. No
smashing nose first into the runway when coming in too slow.

4. The X plane simulation T tail Q200 had snappier handling than
the Unmodified Q200 and was much more fun to fly around. The normal
Q200 feels a lot like a C172 or Boeing 737. the T tail Q200 feels
more like an Extra 300.

5. I gave up my plans to build a Q200 and have since designed my
own T Tail Q200 variant. Once I finish my mechanical engineering
degree I will conduct a series of structural analyses and design the
airframe. The aerodynamic characteristics of the X plane model of
this design will be proven with a 1/3
scale radio controlled model.

------------------

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Darrell Daniels" <log@...> wrote:
>
> Chris,
> I was thinking one goy on the group had a T Tail and took the
tail off.
> Darrell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher" <qdf_files@...>
> To: <Q-LIST@...>
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:29 AM
> Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin
headroom.
>
>
> > David,
> >
> > Thanks for responding... I, if I am being told accurate
information
> > is that the performance envelope of the Q are opened up with a T-
> > Tail allowing slower approach speeds if the a stabilizer with an
> > elevator is added to the top of the tail which is five to six
feet
> > long becoming a tri-foil aircraft... if you wan't to call it
that.
> >
> > I wanted to look into deleting the elevators off the canard, if
this
> > can be done. I don't care if the airplane becomes something else
if
> > the performance is improved by as much as 10%.
> >
> > Due to the public floggings of opinion which come about from
someone
> > even suggesting a radical change to these airplanes I want to
keep
> > discussion off list, if you would be willing to do so. I have
been
> > referred to you for some other questions I had too.
> >
> > I have a DF, but the way I see it, except for the length of the
> > wings they are the same airplane, essentially and this mod, if it
> > works as well as claimed by someone who did a study on the T-
Tail,
> > would apply to either aircraft. This group is much more active
than
> > the DFly group so I passed the question here about this
possibility
> > plus I wanted to look into the idea of flapperons, but not my
main
> > thrust of interest, mainly the T Tail and perhaps a raised
canopy so
> > I don't hit my head on the top.
> >
> > Christopher
> >
> > -- In Q-LIST@..., "David J. Gall" <David@> wrote:
> >>
> >> What was the project?
> >>
> >>
> >> David J. Gall
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
> >> > On Behalf Of Christopher
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 5:44 PM
> >> > To: Q-LIST@...
> >> > Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher
> >> > cabin headroom.
> >> >
> >> > That's the same thing an engineer told me on another project
> >> > which suceeded.
> >> >
> >> > Christopher
> >> >
> >> > Tht--- In Q-LIST@..., oneskydog@ wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > In a message dated 9/13/2006 8:12:52 AM Mountain Daylight
> > Time,
> >> > > qdf_files@ writes:
> >> > >
> >> > > I'm pretty dedicated
> >> > > towards doing something different from a regular Q or DF
with
> > my
> >> > > project even if it takes me ten years to finish it. I want
to
> > put
> >> > a
> >> > > T-Tail on it as the sole elevator and perhaps look into
> >> > flapperons
> >> > > for both wings.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
> >> > >
> >> > > DOA RIP
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards,
> >> > >
> >> > > One Sky Dog
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> > http://www.quickiebuilders.org
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


Re: First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the tires with air??

shoskins@...
 

Ritz,
Learn how to pull the wheel. It's pretty easy, check the plans under the wheel
assembly area. I have not found a suitable extension that will allow filling
from the outside. Maybe Patillio or Farnum bave come up with a better
soultion, but it escapes me. I have to add air a couple times a year.
I find that whenever I fill the tire with air, on my workbench, I have to
firmly backup the stem with a screwdriver or other tool, to keep it from moving.
BTW, I now inflate to 50 psi.
Sam Hoskins
Murphysboro, IL


Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

Christopher <qdf_files@...>
 

Here is what has me all fired about about a stabilizer and elevator
on the Tail:

Quote:

Hi Chris,

Here is quick summary of what I know about adding a T tail to a
tandem Wing airplane:

1. DO NOT add anything other than a sub foot span sized T tail to
your Project unless you are a structural engineer or you have a
structural engineer direct your modification effort by calculating
how much reinforcement the tail cone and vertical fin will need for
a given size H. Stab.

2. The T tail opens up the performance envelope of a tandem wing
plane. They cruise faster by 5-10% and land slower by about the
same margin. The glide slope angle is much more controllable and
approach speed is much more manageable with an elevator on an aft
stabilizer driving the pitch control. As a side benefit, you don't
need elevators on the front wing any more once elevators are
installed on a medium sized H. Stab. so you can add flaps to both
wings. This reduces the stall speed yet further and turns the
planes into STOL capable performers.

3. The elevator on the T tail can work on conjunction with the
canard Elevators if you don't want to modify the standard dragonfly
control system beyond adding an elevator to a T tail stabilizer. I
found in my X plane simulation of a Q200+ 5' span T tail H. Stab.
that reducing the canard elevator throw to about 20%of normal and
using the elevator on the T tail for most of the pitch control made
a much easier flying plane than an unmodified Q200 for the same
reason above: slow flight was much more controllable and speed
management was much better.

It was possible to slow the plane down in a 2g steep turn and have a
steeper glide slope than without the T tail. Stalls are more
predictable and flare can be much deeper without the pitch buck
or "nodding" that canard planes do when at minimum speed. No
smashing nose first into the runway when coming in too slow.

4. The X plane simulation T tail Q200 had snappier handling than
the Unmodified Q200 and was much more fun to fly around. The normal
Q200 feels a lot like a C172 or Boeing 737. the T tail Q200 feels
more like an Extra 300.


5. I gave up my plans to build a Q200 and have since designed my
own T Tail Q200 variant. Once I finish my mechanical engineering
degree I will conduct a series of structural analyses and design the
airframe. The aerodynamic characteristics of the X plane model of
this design will be proven with a 1/3
scale radio controlled model.


------------------


--- In Q-LIST@..., "Darrell Daniels" <log@...> wrote:

Chris,
I was thinking one goy on the group had a T Tail and took the
tail off.
Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher" <qdf_files@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:29 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin
headroom.


David,

Thanks for responding... I, if I am being told accurate
information
is that the performance envelope of the Q are opened up with a T-
Tail allowing slower approach speeds if the a stabilizer with an
elevator is added to the top of the tail which is five to six
feet
long becoming a tri-foil aircraft... if you wan't to call it
that.

I wanted to look into deleting the elevators off the canard, if
this
can be done. I don't care if the airplane becomes something else
if
the performance is improved by as much as 10%.

Due to the public floggings of opinion which come about from
someone
even suggesting a radical change to these airplanes I want to
keep
discussion off list, if you would be willing to do so. I have
been
referred to you for some other questions I had too.

I have a DF, but the way I see it, except for the length of the
wings they are the same airplane, essentially and this mod, if it
works as well as claimed by someone who did a study on the T-
Tail,
would apply to either aircraft. This group is much more active
than
the DFly group so I passed the question here about this
possibility
plus I wanted to look into the idea of flapperons, but not my
main
thrust of interest, mainly the T Tail and perhaps a raised
canopy so
I don't hit my head on the top.

Christopher

-- In Q-LIST@..., "David J. Gall" <David@> wrote:

What was the project?


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 5:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher
cabin headroom.

That's the same thing an engineer told me on another project
which suceeded.

Christopher

Tht--- In Q-LIST@..., oneskydog@ wrote:


In a message dated 9/13/2006 8:12:52 AM Mountain Daylight
Time,
qdf_files@ writes:

I'm pretty dedicated
towards doing something different from a regular Q or DF
with
my
project even if it takes me ten years to finish it. I want
to
put
a
T-Tail on it as the sole elevator and perhaps look into
flapperons
for both wings.



.
DOA RIP

Regards,

One Sky Dog





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links











Re: Fuel Tanks

Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

No , you are fine Ron, I looked at the archives and I saw a balloon was used but I did not look very long at the post. I was fighting with work comp yesterday I still cannot walk without aid and the adjuster wanted to know why I could not do some Ironwork. Thanks for the information I really do appreciate it. Darrell Daniels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Triano" <rondefly@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


Darrell, Hope I did not sound rude, did not mean it that way. A manometer is
a very sensitive gauge operating on pressure or vacumn theory. A balloon is
also a pressure test but the only way you know you have a leak is if it
deflates. You can't measure nothing except that it is deflated. With the
manometer you would know how much of a leak you have instantly. I made my
manometer with left over tubing and misc. fittings I had in the shop. If you
type in manometer while in Google you will find several sites describing how
to build one.



Ron



Sonerai and Q200


<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 3:50 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



Ron,
You could just ask me, I took a really quick look at the archives
after your 1st post and gathered manometer test was a pressure test.
Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption if so please tell me or I can order a
back issue of quickie builders #109.
I have always called a pressure test a pressure test.I do want to thank
everyone who replied and as I stated I learned a lot from this string.
I joined this list because I do not know everything and need help.
Thanks again Darrell Daniels Tri Q Rebuild
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Triano" <rondefly@rtriano. <mailto:rondefly%40rtriano.com> com>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I guess Darrell doesn't know what a manometer is.



Ron



Sonerai taxi testing


<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:02 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



Thanks Bob,
The leak test is what I was thinking I needed to do. What got me
started on this again was I asked why I could not run auto fuel in a VW
engine and one of the answers was that someone heard that auto fuel would
penetrate the epoxy. I am actual glad for this as I have learned a lot
from
this thread . My thanks Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Farnam" <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

If nothing extra was done by the original builder, there is some chance
that
it will leak. If you can't find out what was done during construction,
then
I guess my next step would be to do a long term leakdown test. This can
be
done by sealing up all of the openings except the supply line to the
pump.
Then put an inflated balloon on the supply line and let it sit for 24
hours
to see if any volume is lost. Check all the seal points with soapy water.
If
it is tight, go fly. If not, cut some holes and at least paint on more
epoxy
inside. Unfortunately, the internal baffles mean that you will have to
cut
holes into each section between the baffles. Hope that it passes the
leakdown test. Understand that a tiny amount of leakage into the fuse
foam
won't hurt the foam, which is fuelproof. Only the Styrafoam in the wings
is
at risk of dissolving. I recommend against any sealant except epoxy. I
have
heard (but don't know firsthand) that some of the elastomer sealants are
attacked by auto fuel. Others on this list may know about that.
Incidentally, EZ-Poxy is supposed to be the modern equivalent of
Safe-T-Poxy. My 7.5 gallon aux. tank is made of EZ-Poxy and is fine after
about 7 years.

Good luck!

Bob F.
N200QK
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com]On
Behalf
Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:00 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I did not build my airplane so what would be your recommendation Would
you
just put the auto fuel in and fly or cut some holes in the top of the
tank
and seal it with something. Thanks Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for
more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a
trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the
tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is
no
sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I
have
seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes.
Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and
recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another
layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy.
Done
properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.

Bob F.
N200QK


----- Original Message ----
From: Darrell Daniels <log@... <mailto:log%40nemr.net>
<mailto:log%40nemr.net> >
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane .
I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which
is
not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want
to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any
other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q
rebuild







Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickieb
<http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links

















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org>
uilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links

















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links
















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links











Re: First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the tires with air??

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

I would just drill a hole where it is large enough to fill with air. Mine is
about 1". After you drill it scrape out some of the foam and replace with
flox.



Ron



Sonerai flying and Q200 gettin there


<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
q2blueskies
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:12 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the
tires with air??



Hello evryone in the Q Group....
My Q2 is finally home, in the work shop and ready to work on...
I am embarrassed to ask?..
Ok...Am I missing somen? (smile)....
How do you fill the tires with air...
Twice we have moved my Q2 to get where it is... and twice, no one with
me, has been able get to the valve, even see the valve stem, for the
simple task of filing the tires up?.. So I turn to you for help?..
Thanking you in advance..
RITZ


Re: Fuel Tanks

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

Darrell, Hope I did not sound rude, did not mean it that way. A manometer is
a very sensitive gauge operating on pressure or vacumn theory. A balloon is
also a pressure test but the only way you know you have a leak is if it
deflates. You can't measure nothing except that it is deflated. With the
manometer you would know how much of a leak you have instantly. I made my
manometer with left over tubing and misc. fittings I had in the shop. If you
type in manometer while in Google you will find several sites describing how
to build one.



Ron



Sonerai and Q200


<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 3:50 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



Ron,
You could just ask me, I took a really quick look at the archives
after your 1st post and gathered manometer test was a pressure test.
Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption if so please tell me or I can order a
back issue of quickie builders #109.
I have always called a pressure test a pressure test.I do want to thank
everyone who replied and as I stated I learned a lot from this string.
I joined this list because I do not know everything and need help.
Thanks again Darrell Daniels Tri Q Rebuild
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Triano" <rondefly@rtriano. <mailto:rondefly%40rtriano.com> com>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I guess Darrell doesn't know what a manometer is.



Ron



Sonerai taxi testing


<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:02 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



Thanks Bob,
The leak test is what I was thinking I needed to do. What got me
started on this again was I asked why I could not run auto fuel in a VW
engine and one of the answers was that someone heard that auto fuel would
penetrate the epoxy. I am actual glad for this as I have learned a lot
from
this thread . My thanks Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Farnam" <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

If nothing extra was done by the original builder, there is some chance
that
it will leak. If you can't find out what was done during construction,
then
I guess my next step would be to do a long term leakdown test. This can
be
done by sealing up all of the openings except the supply line to the
pump.
Then put an inflated balloon on the supply line and let it sit for 24
hours
to see if any volume is lost. Check all the seal points with soapy water.
If
it is tight, go fly. If not, cut some holes and at least paint on more
epoxy
inside. Unfortunately, the internal baffles mean that you will have to
cut
holes into each section between the baffles. Hope that it passes the
leakdown test. Understand that a tiny amount of leakage into the fuse
foam
won't hurt the foam, which is fuelproof. Only the Styrafoam in the wings
is
at risk of dissolving. I recommend against any sealant except epoxy. I
have
heard (but don't know firsthand) that some of the elastomer sealants are
attacked by auto fuel. Others on this list may know about that.
Incidentally, EZ-Poxy is supposed to be the modern equivalent of
Safe-T-Poxy. My 7.5 gallon aux. tank is made of EZ-Poxy and is fine after
about 7 years.

Good luck!

Bob F.
N200QK
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com]On
Behalf
Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:00 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I did not build my airplane so what would be your recommendation Would
you
just put the auto fuel in and fly or cut some holes in the top of the
tank
and seal it with something. Thanks Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for
more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a
trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the
tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is
no
sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I
have
seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes.
Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and
recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another
layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy.
Done
properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.

Bob F.
N200QK


----- Original Message ----
From: Darrell Daniels <log@... <mailto:log%40nemr.net>
<mailto:log%40nemr.net> >
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane .
I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which
is
not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want
to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any
other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q
rebuild








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickieb
<http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org>
uilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links


















Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickieb <http://www.quickiebuilders.org> uilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links










Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

Chris,
I was thinking one goy on the group had a T Tail and took the tail off. Darrell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher" <qdf_files@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:29 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.


David,

Thanks for responding... I, if I am being told accurate information
is that the performance envelope of the Q are opened up with a T-
Tail allowing slower approach speeds if the a stabilizer with an
elevator is added to the top of the tail which is five to six feet
long becoming a tri-foil aircraft... if you wan't to call it that.

I wanted to look into deleting the elevators off the canard, if this
can be done. I don't care if the airplane becomes something else if
the performance is improved by as much as 10%.

Due to the public floggings of opinion which come about from someone
even suggesting a radical change to these airplanes I want to keep
discussion off list, if you would be willing to do so. I have been
referred to you for some other questions I had too.

I have a DF, but the way I see it, except for the length of the
wings they are the same airplane, essentially and this mod, if it
works as well as claimed by someone who did a study on the T-Tail,
would apply to either aircraft. This group is much more active than
the DFly group so I passed the question here about this possibility
plus I wanted to look into the idea of flapperons, but not my main
thrust of interest, mainly the T Tail and perhaps a raised canopy so
I don't hit my head on the top.

Christopher

-- In Q-LIST@..., "David J. Gall" <David@...> wrote:

What was the project?


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 5:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher
cabin headroom.

That's the same thing an engineer told me on another project
which suceeded.

Christopher

Tht--- In Q-LIST@..., oneskydog@ wrote:


In a message dated 9/13/2006 8:12:52 AM Mountain Daylight
Time,
qdf_files@ writes:

I'm pretty dedicated
towards doing something different from a regular Q or DF with
my
project even if it takes me ten years to finish it. I want to
put
a
T-Tail on it as the sole elevator and perhaps look into
flapperons
for both wings.



.
DOA RIP

Regards,

One Sky Dog





Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links











Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

Christopher <qdf_files@...>
 

David,

Thanks for responding... I, if I am being told accurate information
is that the performance envelope of the Q are opened up with a T-
Tail allowing slower approach speeds if the a stabilizer with an
elevator is added to the top of the tail which is five to six feet
long becoming a tri-foil aircraft... if you wan't to call it that.

I wanted to look into deleting the elevators off the canard, if this
can be done. I don't care if the airplane becomes something else if
the performance is improved by as much as 10%.

Due to the public floggings of opinion which come about from someone
even suggesting a radical change to these airplanes I want to keep
discussion off list, if you would be willing to do so. I have been
referred to you for some other questions I had too.

I have a DF, but the way I see it, except for the length of the
wings they are the same airplane, essentially and this mod, if it
works as well as claimed by someone who did a study on the T-Tail,
would apply to either aircraft. This group is much more active than
the DFly group so I passed the question here about this possibility
plus I wanted to look into the idea of flapperons, but not my main
thrust of interest, mainly the T Tail and perhaps a raised canopy so
I don't hit my head on the top.

Christopher

-- In Q-LIST@..., "David J. Gall" <David@...> wrote:

What was the project?


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 5:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher
cabin headroom.

That's the same thing an engineer told me on another project
which suceeded.

Christopher

Tht--- In Q-LIST@..., oneskydog@ wrote:


In a message dated 9/13/2006 8:12:52 AM Mountain Daylight
Time,
qdf_files@ writes:

I'm pretty dedicated
towards doing something different from a regular Q or DF with
my
project even if it takes me ten years to finish it. I want to
put
a
T-Tail on it as the sole elevator and perhaps look into
flapperons
for both wings.



.
DOA RIP

Regards,

One Sky Dog


Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

David J. Gall
 

What was the project?


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 5:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher
cabin headroom.

That's the same thing an engineer told me on another project
which suceeded.

Christopher

Tht--- In Q-LIST@..., oneskydog@... wrote:


In a message dated 9/13/2006 8:12:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
qdf_files@... writes:

I'm pretty dedicated
towards doing something different from a regular Q or DF with my
project even if it takes me ten years to finish it. I want to put
a
T-Tail on it as the sole elevator and perhaps look into
flapperons
for both wings.



.
DOA RIP

Regards,

One Sky Dog


Re: First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the tires with air??

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Ritz you can buy a valve extension which screws onto the stem and extends to
the rim where you refit the valve itself. Tip :remember to rebalance the
wheels.

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Dave Dugas
Sent: Thursday, 14 September 2006 12:12 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the
tires with air??



Hi RITZ

I hate to tell you this but if you can't see the valves you've got to remove
the wheel. Mine's the same way Dave D

q2blueskies <q2blueskies@ <mailto:q2blueskies%40yahoo.com> yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello evryone in the Q Group....
My Q2 is finally home, in the work shop and ready to work on...
I am embarrassed to ask?..
Ok...Am I missing somen? (smile)....
How do you fill the tires with air...
Twice we have moved my Q2 to get where it is... and twice, no one with
me, has been able get to the valve, even see the valve stem, for the
simple task of filing the tires up?.. So I turn to you for help?..
Thanking you in advance..
RITZ


---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.


Re: First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the tires with air??

Dave Dugas
 

Hi RITZ

I hate to tell you this but if you can't see the valves you've got to remove the wheel. Mine's the same way Dave D

q2blueskies <q2blueskies@...> wrote:
Hello evryone in the Q Group....
My Q2 is finally home, in the work shop and ready to work on...
I am embarrassed to ask?..
Ok...Am I missing somen? (smile)....
How do you fill the tires with air...
Twice we have moved my Q2 to get where it is... and twice, no one with
me, has been able get to the valve, even see the valve stem, for the
simple task of filing the tires up?.. So I turn to you for help?..
Thanking you in advance..
RITZ






---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.


Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

Tri-Q1 <rryan@...>
 

If you have a T-tail with an elevator it will just be another Bi-wing
airplane.

Ryan

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Christopher" <qdf_files@...> wrote:
I'm pretty dedicated
towards doing something different from a regular Q or DF with my
project even if it takes me ten years to finish it. I want to put a
T-Tail on it as the sole elevator and perhaps look into flapperons
for both wings.


First Post from RITZ ......Yikes...How do you fill the tires with air??

q2blueskies <q2blueskies@...>
 

Hello evryone in the Q Group....
My Q2 is finally home, in the work shop and ready to work on...
I am embarrassed to ask?..
Ok...Am I missing somen? (smile)....
How do you fill the tires with air...
Twice we have moved my Q2 to get where it is... and twice, no one with
me, has been able get to the valve, even see the valve stem, for the
simple task of filing the tires up?.. So I turn to you for help?..
Thanking you in advance..
RITZ


Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

Christopher <qdf_files@...>
 

That's the same thing an engineer told me on another project which
suceeded.

Christopher

Tht--- In Q-LIST@..., oneskydog@... wrote:


In a message dated 9/13/2006 8:12:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
qdf_files@... writes:

I'm pretty dedicated
towards doing something different from a regular Q or DF with my
project even if it takes me ten years to finish it. I want to put
a
T-Tail on it as the sole elevator and perhaps look into
flapperons
for both wings.



.
DOA RIP

Regards,

One Sky Dog




Re: Q2 --> Q200 ANSWER to RUSS MEYERRIECK'S question

David J. Gall
 

Russ,

You already found in paragraph 4 of the LS(1) addendum where they say the canard cores from B.L. 0 to B.L. 15 are cut into two pieces instead of one. Read the sentence immediately BEFORE that sentence. You will see that it says: "From B.L. 15 to B.L. 100, the hotwire block sizes are exactly the same as called out in the Q2 construction plans."

Yes, we all skip blindly past the words on the page on occasion! :)

Hope this is what you were looking for,


David J. Gall
PS If you have a set of the original, uncut LS1 hotwire templates (not copies), I'd sure like a chance to digitize them then return them to you....

----- Original Message -----
From: Russ <datachomper@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Q2 --> Q200 ATTENTION RUSS MEYERRIECKS and DANNY CREECH
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 14:39:35 -0000


Guys,
Please allow me to appologize. I must not be communicating my
question very well and I'm sorry.

I understand that the Q-200 uses the LS1 airfoil and a carbon spar
for the canard to fix the bug/rain problem with the GU airfoil and to
add extra support for the heavier 0-200 engine. So, here I am with the
LS1 templates in hand and ready to cut my foam cores. I pour through
all the documents that I've collected on the Q2/200 trying to find any
specific instructions for cutting out the "LS1" cores and I find none.
I've looked through the Q2 Manual, the LS1 Addendum, and Q200 Plans
section II (and I did a fruitless search in this yahoo group). The
closest thing I could find was in the beginning of the "LS1" Addendum
where they say the canard cores from BL0 to BL15 are cut into two
pieces instead of one. So I'm *assuming* I should cut the LS1
BL15-BL100 cores the same way as the GU cores would be cut. (I'm NOT
cutting GU airfoils).

Again, I appologize. Assumptions make me uneasy, especially
considering the magnitude of the project. All I wanted to do was
double check that I wasn't missing anything before I cut into my
expensive foam. I didn't mean for it to turn into a big ordeal.

Russ Meyerriecks
Huntsville, AL


Re: Fuel Tanks

Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

Ron,
You could just ask me, I took a really quick look at the archives after your 1st post and gathered manometer test was a pressure test. Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption if so please tell me or I can order a back issue of quickie builders #109.
I have always called a pressure test a pressure test.I do want to thank everyone who replied and as I stated I learned a lot from this string.
I joined this list because I do not know everything and need help. Thanks again Darrell Daniels Tri Q Rebuild

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Triano" <rondefly@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I guess Darrell doesn't know what a manometer is.



Ron



Sonerai taxi testing


<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:02 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks



Thanks Bob,
The leak test is what I was thinking I needed to do. What got me
started on this again was I asked why I could not run auto fuel in a VW
engine and one of the answers was that someone heard that auto fuel would
penetrate the epoxy. I am actual glad for this as I have learned a lot from
this thread . My thanks Darrell Daniels Tri Q rebuild
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Farnam" <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

If nothing extra was done by the original builder, there is some chance
that
it will leak. If you can't find out what was done during construction,
then
I guess my next step would be to do a long term leakdown test. This can be
done by sealing up all of the openings except the supply line to the pump.
Then put an inflated balloon on the supply line and let it sit for 24
hours
to see if any volume is lost. Check all the seal points with soapy water.
If
it is tight, go fly. If not, cut some holes and at least paint on more
epoxy
inside. Unfortunately, the internal baffles mean that you will have to cut
holes into each section between the baffles. Hope that it passes the
leakdown test. Understand that a tiny amount of leakage into the fuse foam
won't hurt the foam, which is fuelproof. Only the Styrafoam in the wings
is
at risk of dissolving. I recommend against any sealant except epoxy. I
have
heard (but don't know firsthand) that some of the elastomer sealants are
attacked by auto fuel. Others on this list may know about that.
Incidentally, EZ-Poxy is supposed to be the modern equivalent of
Safe-T-Poxy. My 7.5 gallon aux. tank is made of EZ-Poxy and is fine after
about 7 years.

Good luck!

Bob F.
N200QK
-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com]On Behalf
Of
Darrell Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:00 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks


I did not build my airplane so what would be your recommendation Would
you
just put the auto fuel in and fly or cut some holes in the top of the
tank
and seal it with something. Thanks Darrell
----- Original Message -----
From: <bfarnam@pacbell. <mailto:bfarnam%40pacbell.net> net>
To: <Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

Here's one more data point for you Darrell. My Q200 has been flying for
more than 8 years using auto gas when I am at home and 100LL away on a
trip. My tanks are made of Safe-T-Poxy. I have also had a sample of the
tank material soaking in auto gas with MTBE for about 7 years. There is
no
sign of softening or other problem. The main source of leakage that I
have
seen is into the fuselage layup which typically had a lot of pinholes.
Those can be sealed several ways during construction. Either sand and
recoat with a fairly heavy layer of epoxy, or some have added another
layer of glass. Mine is sealed with just an extra coating of epoxy.
Done
properly, the epoxy tanks won't leak.

Bob F.
N200QK


----- Original Message ----
From: Darrell Daniels <log@... <mailto:log%40nemr.net> >
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:19:03 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fuel Tanks

I have been searching the archives as I am still not satisfied with the
idea
that fuel can leak through you tank and into the foam of you airplane .
I
also wan to burn auto fuel . After all of my reading it seems the only
people who have actually done anything is using a slosh coating which
is
not
really practical it a Q but it seems to be the only option is you want
to
burn car gas or rid of the possible fuel leak.
The one exception is in the Archive Sam in one entry said something
about using a fuel resistant epoxy but you could not get to all of the
places to sand to easily recoat the entire inside of the tank. Any
other
ideas or am I making much to do for nothing Darrell Daniels Tri Q
rebuild







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