Date   

Re: TW Fly-in Sept 22-24 Emp

JMasal@...
 

I'm trying to avoid getting a car. I'm pretty sure I can get a ride from KCI
with Sam Kittle to Emp. I wonder if I could get back up to the KC area with
you after the event?... even if its not until Monday. (No, can be a correct
answer by-the-way).

j.


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Jim Patillo
 

Phil,

Mark is kind of quit. He's off working at Homeland Security in DC as
of last week. You may never see those pictures in the files. Should of
taken pictures when you were here. I said he claims 4 mph, I didn't
say he was getting it! We'll verify next time we fly together.
Although when he says something you can usually count on it.

With his fuel injected pumped up 0200 and this new mod he does have a
fast plane. Mark's made many inovations in drag reduction on his
plane, like cutting the kidney tank in half and keeping the engine
cowling flush with the bottom of fuselage, his own design for VG's on
the GU canard and this latest one. All these things make for a slick
plane.

Regards,
JIm Patillo N46JP Q200


--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@... wrote:

Golly Jim! Is Mark another 4 mph faster? Are there any pictures of
Mark's
VG set-up in the files yet? Great work, Mark!

Cheers,

Phil


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Pictures

Jim Patillo
 

Pat,

Is there any way to relocate my pictures in the files floder to my
album in Photo's. Can you do that as the monitor?

Thanks,
Jim P.


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Larry Severson
 

Golly Jim! Is Mark another 4 mph faster? Are there any pictures of Mark's
VG set-up in the files yet? Great work, Mark!
Any join of surfaces greater than 45 degrees should be contoured (beer can fillet) for minimum drag. I have not seen (noticed) any that have such a fillet below the main wing on Qs.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

Larry Severson
 

At 06:48 AM 9/15/2006, you wrote:

It is and it limits knowledge exchange.
Not really. With 2/3 subgroups, one can get any info wanted without being bothered with extraneous, to them, e-mails.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

David J. Gall
 

Jim,

That's some good-looking airflow you've got in that wing/fuselage
intersection!


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 9:28 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1


All,

A few weeks ago Mark Summers from Livermore (Q200 with GU
canard) did an oil flow test and found the canard - fuselage
intersection on his plane to be real draggy. The flow lines
were all over the place. He installed a vortex generator on
the GU (at the 40% of cord area) about
1 1/2" from the fuselage and about 3" of dimpled tape up the
side of the fuselage on both sides. He claims about a 4 mph
increase in speed as a result. He repeated the flow test and
found the area cleaned up significantly and the air was now
staying attached.

For a long time now we have been told by people like John
Ronz that this area was suspect. Many of us thought of
reworking the area for drag reduction.

As one always looking for speed I did the oil flow test on my Q200
-LS1 canard this weekend and found a totally different
situation. The air flow in that area of my plane stays
attached. Take a look in the photos section to the left
titled Jim Patillo. AS soon as I landed I looked at the flow
and the lines were straight. (Note these pictures were taken
about 10 minutes after landng and were starting to droop
because fo gravity).. It appears the LS1 also cleaned up
that area for air flow. The only thing I noticed was that at
the sparrow strainer, the flow was not attached fully in that
area. Don't know if that is significant or not. Any opinions?

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200


Re: I need help from you guys

David J. Gall
 

Jim,

When you read the posts on yahoogroups, the website (yahoo) truncates email
addresses. When you have the posts delivered to you as email, you get all
the info. Try this: His address is 1flashq_at_ameritech.net. See below.


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:31 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: I need help from you guys


Joseph,

Its not coming across. Look at your post. My email is
logistics_engineering@...
--- In Q-LIST@..., "Joseph Snow" <1flashq@...> wrote:

Jim,

Thanks for your reply. My address is: 1flashq@...

Joseph Snow


-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Joseph Snow
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:09 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: I need help from you guys

Jim,

Thanks for your reply. My address is: 1flashq@...

Joseph Snow


-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Joseph Snow
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:09 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: I need help from you guys

Jim,

Thanks for your reply. My address is: 1flashq_at_ameritech.net

Joseph Snow


Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Jim Patillo
 

All,

A few weeks ago Mark Summers from Livermore (Q200 with GU canard) did
an oil flow test and found the canard - fuselage intersection on his
plane to be real draggy. The flow lines were all over the place. He
installed a vortex generator on the GU (at the 40% of cord area) about
1 1/2" from the fuselage and about 3" of dimpled tape up the side of
the fuselage on both sides. He claims about a 4 mph increase in speed
as a result. He repeated the flow test and found the area cleaned up
significantly and the air was now staying attached.

For a long time now we have been told by people like John Ronz that
this area was suspect. Many of us thought of reworking the area for
drag reduction.

As one always looking for speed I did the oil flow test on my Q200
-LS1 canard this weekend and found a totally different situation. The
air flow in that area of my plane stays attached. Take a look in the
photos section to the left titled Jim Patillo. AS soon as I landed I
looked at the flow and the lines were straight. (Note these pictures
were taken about 10 minutes after landng and were starting to droop
because fo gravity).. It appears the LS1 also cleaned up that area
for air flow. The only thing I noticed was that at the sparrow
strainer, the flow was not attached fully in that area. Don't know if
that is significant or not. Any opinions?

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200


Re: Oil Tank

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

Sam, I don' have the photos on this computer, will post to the engine group
sometime tomorrow when I have my laptop up and running.



Ron Triano



Sonerai IIs done and flying

Q200, Back working on it, soon to be flying

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Sam Hoskins
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:23 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Oil Tank



Ron,

That is a pretty interesting oil sump. What is their reason for doing all
that? I would assume that it is to eliminate the drag from the fat kidney
tank hanging below the fuselage.

I would hope that you wouldn't take that on, just to accommodate your
exhaust. It should be the other way around.

I would appreciate it if you also posted those photos on the Q-200 Engine
group. http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-200_Engine_Group>
yahoo.com/group/Q-200_Engine_Group

Sam

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Ron Triano
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 5:49 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Oil Tank

Get new idea's from the formula 1 racers every year. Been wondering what to
do to make space for my 4 in one exhaust as the oil tank was in the way. I
will put up on the Q list photos section under rondefly 3 new photos.

Ron

Ron Triano

Sonerai is there and Q200 not far behind

<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.
<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html


Re: Oil Tank

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

Sam, Your assumption is correct, to get rid of the low hanging kidney tank.
I will come up with what kind of tank I have to make when I build it. Don't
think it will be the same shape as they used due to the mounts I have. But
the idea will be the same, it will have the same capacity and not sure but
probably will make it from Carbon Fiber. I am looking into what would help
dispurse the heat best. Will make the bottom part from 3/8 aluminum with
the -8 supply in the center and two returns on each side. Probably will dish
out the bottom to help the oil flow to the return tubes. This will give me
room for the type of exhaust I am installing. I will be using the augmenter
type to help pull the cooling air out, I already have my bottom cowl shaped
for it.



Ron Triano



Sonerai IIs done and flying

Q200, Back working on it, soon to be flying

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Sam Hoskins
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:23 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Oil Tank



Ron,

That is a pretty interesting oil sump. What is their reason for doing all
that? I would assume that it is to eliminate the drag from the fat kidney
tank hanging below the fuselage.

I would hope that you wouldn't take that on, just to accommodate your
exhaust. It should be the other way around.

I would appreciate it if you also posted those photos on the Q-200 Engine
group. http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-200_Engine_Group>
yahoo.com/group/Q-200_Engine_Group

Sam

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Ron Triano
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 5:49 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Oil Tank

Get new idea's from the formula 1 racers every year. Been wondering what to
do to make space for my 4 in one exhaust as the oil tank was in the way. I
will put up on the Q list photos section under rondefly 3 new photos.

Ron

Ron Triano

Sonerai is there and Q200 not far behind

<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.
<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html


Re: Oil Tank

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

Ron,

That is a pretty interesting oil sump. What is their reason for doing all
that? I would assume that it is to eliminate the drag from the fat kidney
tank hanging below the fuselage.

I would hope that you wouldn't take that on, just to accommodate your
exhaust. It should be the other way around.

I would appreciate it if you also posted those photos on the Q-200 Engine
group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-200_Engine_Group

Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Ron Triano
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 5:49 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Oil Tank



Get new idea's from the formula 1 racers every year. Been wondering what to
do to make space for my 4 in one exhaust as the oil tank was in the way. I
will put up on the Q list photos section under rondefly 3 new photos.

Ron

Ron Triano

Sonerai is there and Q200 not far behind

<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html


Re: I need help from you guys

Jim Patillo
 

Joseph,

Its not coming across. Look at your post. My email is
logistics_engineering@...

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Joseph Snow" <1flashq@...> wrote:

Jim,

Thanks for your reply. My address is: 1flashq@...

Joseph Snow

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: I need help from you guys

Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Jim,

Thanks for your reply. My address is: 1flashq@...

Joseph Snow


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

britmcman99
 

Golly Jim! Is Mark another 4 mph faster? Are there any pictures of Mark's
VG set-up in the files yet? Great work, Mark!

Cheers,

Phil


Barry

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

As I was viewing the formula 1s in their hangar at Stead. I ran across Barry
from Livermore doing the same.



Ron



Ron Triano



Sonerai is there and Q200 not far behind


<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html


Nead help from all you "old salts" and experts on the q2/q200

fifty101fifty <fifty101fifty@...>
 

I have a few in depth questions on the design of our beloved
aircraft. I am asking them in pure engineering terms so please make
no reference to the constructions plans jargon i.e "level line". OK
here goes…
pertaining to the q2/q200
Does any one know …?

What the angle of incidence is of both the wing and canard?

What the wash out is of both the wing and canard?

Where the CG is in reference to the wings ¼ cord at the root ? (I
understand it will be forward of the leading edge.)

What the distance between the leading and trailing edges of the
canard and wing? (at the root both x "extended cord line" and y
axis )

What the anhedral angle (unloaded) is for the canard and the
dihedral of the wing?

What the washout is of both the canard and wing tips?

And last but not least… does any one know and/or have copies of the
original fuse, wing and virt stab (or airfoil) templates? I can find
everything on the canard, but info on the wing and vertical stab is
scarce.

For a little FYI….im creating the aircraft in cad and will be
running it through my wind tunnel programs. Ill be publishing all
the info on here so if we all pull together on this I think we will
benefit when deciding on power plants and better understanding
climb/glide profiles, L/D max and aerodynamic efficiency mods.
Hope to hear from you all soon.


Air flow at canard and fuselage tests

Jim Patillo
 

Shortly I'll be downloading pictures of my canard and the tests I did
thisweekend. It's interesting!

Jim Patillo


Re: I need help from you guys

Jim Patillo
 

Joseph,

I just got back into town and saw several posts from you. Give your
full e-mail address in the reply and we can talk. We'll be here in
December and you are welcome to stop by.

Jim Patillo
--- In Q-LIST@..., "Joseph Snow" <1flashq@...> wrote:

Thanks Jon, I lifted address from the most recent e-mails to the
Q-list by doing a search as suggested. No replies however.

Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Finley
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] I need help from you guys


The QBA website lists phone numbers for Jim, Bob, & Alan. I don't
know if
they are current but that's where I would start.

http://quickiebuilders.org/Qbuild/qBuildList.asp

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On
Behalf Of
Joseph Snow
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:40 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] I need help from you guys

Does anyone out there know how to contact any of the California
Q-builders?
I'm not having much luch. I am going to California and would like
to see
their projects and get their advice on mine.

Joseph Snow
1flashq@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Oil Tank

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

Get new idea's from the formula 1 racers every year. Been wondering what to
do to make space for my 4 in one exhaust as the oil tank was in the way. I
will put up on the Q list photos section under rondefly 3 new photos.



Ron



Ron Triano



Sonerai is there and Q200 not far behind


<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html


Re: I need help from you guys

Joseph Snow <1flashq@...>
 

Thanks Jon, I lifted address from the most recent e-mails to the Q-list by doing a search as suggested. No replies however.

Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Finley
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] I need help from you guys


The QBA website lists phone numbers for Jim, Bob, & Alan. I don't know if
they are current but that's where I would start.

http://quickiebuilders.org/Qbuild/qBuildList.asp

Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]On Behalf Of
Joseph Snow
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:40 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] I need help from you guys

Does anyone out there know how to contact any of the California Q-builders?
I'm not having much luch. I am going to California and would like to see
their projects and get their advice on mine.

Joseph Snow
1flashq@...