Date   

Re: How wasteful can you get?

Larry Severson
 

At 04:25 PM 9/18/2006, you wrote:

that's what happens when you have to much money and morons running your "business" with a uniform ....
I seriously doubt that the morons making the decisions were uniformed personnel.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: How wasteful can you get?

Jason Muscat <fifty101fifty@...>
 

that's what happens when you have to much money and morons running your "business" with a uniform ....

Allan Farr <afarr@...> wrote: Has anyone seen this? http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/719-full.html#193218
I find it sickening.
Allan F.
Q2








---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

britmcman99
 

Jim:

I took careful note of Mark's VG arrangement, but saw no VGs in close
proximity to the upper aft inboard canard region. The implication was that there
were some special placements of VGs in that area to keep the air attached.

I too have a very streamlined oil tank. It even has a place to store the
carburetor.;)

Phil


How wasteful can you get?

Allan Farr <afarr@...>
 

Has anyone seen this? http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/719-full.html#193218
I find it sickening.
Allan F.
Q2


Re: Flight reports

Jim Patillo
 

Kevin,

Howdy dude! Flying around the San Joaquin Valley I've had my plane
loaded with bugs (heavy all over canard and wings) and noticed no
change. Don't think that caused your problem but who knows.

Jim P.

Thanks for the Sho Bloom. Its starting to work wonders on my horses!

--- In Q-LIST@..., Boddicker <trumanst@...> wrote:

7 Sept 06
Again worked on descents. TO from 35 was fine. I think the tires
have a
higher profile than the old ones. I need more ground speed to TO
than before
I changed the tires. At first I thought it was my complacency, but
now have
enough TO¹s to think that the ground angle of attack has changed
for the
worse. Nothing dangerous, just different. The engine has started
to loosen
up some also. I now get 2550RPM on TO roll and 2450 to 2500 in
climb. 360°
descents, 100 MPH at idle, the first 180 ° was down 1000¹ the next
180° was
down 700¹. For a total for 1700¹ descent in the full turn. Thought
it was
odd to have different rates in the same test. Next test was 2000¹
descent at
idle, with 110MPH. Glide was 3.5 miles.
Return to the airport for landing, uneventful.

14 Sept 06
Continued the descent tests. TO from 17 with a 10 MPH headwind
felt better
than the calm wind TO¹s I have been doing. Climb to 5000¹, without
leveling
off part way up to cool the engine, was fine. The temps were
normal for this
plane. First descent yielded a glide of 2.5 miles, engine at idle,
down
2000¹, @ 115 mph. Next try was engine idle, down 1000¹ @ 120 mph,
1mile.
Flew around some at 5000¹. Had a strange experience. To maintain
altitude, I
had to have the nose high. More so than I have ever noticed. The
plane did
not want to trim very well either. Back to the pattern for
landing. Decided
to try to slow my approach to 90 mph for final. Short final found
me very
low, and almost in the corn. Had I continued I don¹t think I would
have made
the runway. Went around. Next approach was at 100 mph. More like
normal. At
least normal to me. Did a T&G. Next landing was at 100 mph on
final as well.
Decent landing. When I got back to the hanger I had a huge amount
of bugs on
the plane. More so than I have ever seen. I talked with Terry C.
about the
possibility that the bugs could have spoiled some of the lift on
the wings.
He said that his LS1 has not had a bug problem, but any
contamination on the
wings will decrease performance. I cleaned them off, and will know
the next
flight if they were the cause. If I don¹t gather them on TO.

Kevin Boddicker
Luana, Iowa
Tri Q200 N7868B 31.4 hours
Flying!!!!


Re: How wasteful can you get?

One Sky Dog
 

In a message dated 9/18/2006 5:31:27 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
fifty101fifty@... writes:




that's what happens when you have to much money and morons running your
"business" with a uniform ....

Allan Farr <_afarr@... (mailto:afarr@...) > wrote: Has anyone
seen this?
_http://www.avweb.http://www.ahttp://wwhttp://www.ahttp://wwwhttp:/_ (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/719-full.html#193218)
I find it sickening.
Allan F.
Q2






Same thing that happened to a lot of military birds. Like the Northrop
flying wings and hundreds of P 51's

It is not unique to the military Beach is buying back and cutting up all the
Starships they can.

Regards,

Charlie


Re: Flight reports

jerry kennedy <jerrykennedy2001@...>
 

--- Boddicker <trumanst@...> wrote:

7 Sept 06
Again worked on descents. TO from 35 was fine. I
think the tires have a
higher profile than the old ones. I need more ground
speed to TO than before
I changed the tires. At first I thought it was my
complacency, but now have
enough TOs to think that the ground angle of attack
has changed for the
worse. Nothing dangerous, just different. The engine
has started to loosen
up some also. I now get 2550RPM on TO roll and 2450
to 2500 in climb. 360
descents, 100 MPH at idle, the first 180 was down
1000 the next 180 was
down 700. For a total for 1700 descent in the full
turn. Thought it was
odd to have different rates in the same test. Next
test was 2000 descent at
idle, with 110MPH. Glide was 3.5 miles.
Return to the airport for landing, uneventful.

14 Sept 06
Continued the descent tests. TO from 17 with a 10
MPH headwind felt better
than the calm wind TOs I have been doing. Climb to
5000, without leveling
off part way up to cool the engine, was fine. The
temps were normal for this
plane. First descent yielded a glide of 2.5 miles,
engine at idle, down
2000, @ 115 mph. Next try was engine idle, down
1000 @ 120 mph, 1mile.
Flew around some at 5000. Had a strange experience.
To maintain altitude, I
had to have the nose high. More so than I have ever
noticed. The plane did
not want to trim very well either. Back to the
pattern for landing. Decided
to try to slow my approach to 90 mph for final.
Short final found me very
low, and almost in the corn. Had I continued I dont
think I would have made
the runway. Went around. Next approach was at 100
mph. More like normal. At
least normal to me. Did a T&G. Next landing was at
100 mph on final as well.
Decent landing. When I got back to the hanger I had
a huge amount of bugs on
the plane. More so than I have ever seen. I talked
with Terry C. about the
possibility that the bugs could have spoiled some of
the lift on the wings.
He said that his LS1 has not had a bug problem, but
any contamination on the
wings will decrease performance. I cleaned them off,
and will know the next
flight if they were the cause. If I dont gather
them on TO.

Kevin Boddicker
Luana, Iowa
Tri Q200 N7868B 31.4 hours
Flying!!!!

WAY TO GO KEVIN
Are you going to make it to the fly-in with your
plane.
Jerry

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Larry Severson
 

That sounds good Larry but did you look at the actual facts with the
pix of my canard flow test this weekend.
No, I need to do it.

That may shoot your theory
all to hell. The main wing is next. What are you doing to promote
the species?
Everything I can.

Are you in the air still?
Well. I haven't flown since 6/6 because of an apparent engine overtemp situation. After spending time building a bigger plenum, I found that the problem was in my engine monitoring system. I was going to fly Thursday, but low ceilings and drizzle killed that. Tomorrow, I hope. I need to fly a lot. SOON!


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Flight reports

Boddicker <trumanst@...>
 

7 Sept 06
Again worked on descents. TO from 35 was fine. I think the tires have a
higher profile than the old ones. I need more ground speed to TO than before
I changed the tires. At first I thought it was my complacency, but now have
enough TO¹s to think that the ground angle of attack has changed for the
worse. Nothing dangerous, just different. The engine has started to loosen
up some also. I now get 2550RPM on TO roll and 2450 to 2500 in climb. 360°
descents, 100 MPH at idle, the first 180 ° was down 1000¹ the next 180° was
down 700¹. For a total for 1700¹ descent in the full turn. Thought it was
odd to have different rates in the same test. Next test was 2000¹ descent at
idle, with 110MPH. Glide was 3.5 miles.
Return to the airport for landing, uneventful.

14 Sept 06
Continued the descent tests. TO from 17 with a 10 MPH headwind felt better
than the calm wind TO¹s I have been doing. Climb to 5000¹, without leveling
off part way up to cool the engine, was fine. The temps were normal for this
plane. First descent yielded a glide of 2.5 miles, engine at idle, down
2000¹, @ 115 mph. Next try was engine idle, down 1000¹ @ 120 mph, 1mile.
Flew around some at 5000¹. Had a strange experience. To maintain altitude, I
had to have the nose high. More so than I have ever noticed. The plane did
not want to trim very well either. Back to the pattern for landing. Decided
to try to slow my approach to 90 mph for final. Short final found me very
low, and almost in the corn. Had I continued I don¹t think I would have made
the runway. Went around. Next approach was at 100 mph. More like normal. At
least normal to me. Did a T&G. Next landing was at 100 mph on final as well.
Decent landing. When I got back to the hanger I had a huge amount of bugs on
the plane. More so than I have ever seen. I talked with Terry C. about the
possibility that the bugs could have spoiled some of the lift on the wings.
He said that his LS1 has not had a bug problem, but any contamination on the
wings will decrease performance. I cleaned them off, and will know the next
flight if they were the cause. If I don¹t gather them on TO.

Kevin Boddicker
Luana, Iowa
Tri Q200 N7868B 31.4 hours
Flying!!!!


Re: TW Fly-in Sept 22-24 Emporia, KS Update 09-17-06 incl directions...

JMasal@...
 

In a message dated 9/17/2006 9:19:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
spudspornitz@... writes:

You last minute Louie's, you are
more than welcome to attend, right up to the last moment, if you are
coming, just let me know as I have to give the caterer a number
Thursday morning. No will got hungry!



No will got hungry!!!!

Yu shore yew aint oneuhdem undocumented Spanishers?? Hee heee heeee


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Jim Patillo
 

That sounds good Larry but did you look at the actual facts with the
pix of my canard flow test this weekend. That may shoot your theory
all to hell. The main wing is next. What are you doing to promote
the species? Are you in the air still?

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200


--- In Q-LIST@..., larry severson <larry2@...> wrote:


Golly Jim! Is Mark another 4 mph faster? Are there any pictures
of Mark's
VG set-up in the files yet? Great work, Mark!
Any join of surfaces greater than 45 degrees should be contoured
(beer can fillet) for minimum drag. I have not seen (noticed) any
that have such a fillet below the main wing on Qs.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: TW Fly-in Sept 22-24 Emp

JMasal@...
 

I'm trying to avoid getting a car. I'm pretty sure I can get a ride from KCI
with Sam Kittle to Emp. I wonder if I could get back up to the KC area with
you after the event?... even if its not until Monday. (No, can be a correct
answer by-the-way).

j.


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Jim Patillo
 

Phil,

Mark is kind of quit. He's off working at Homeland Security in DC as
of last week. You may never see those pictures in the files. Should of
taken pictures when you were here. I said he claims 4 mph, I didn't
say he was getting it! We'll verify next time we fly together.
Although when he says something you can usually count on it.

With his fuel injected pumped up 0200 and this new mod he does have a
fast plane. Mark's made many inovations in drag reduction on his
plane, like cutting the kidney tank in half and keeping the engine
cowling flush with the bottom of fuselage, his own design for VG's on
the GU canard and this latest one. All these things make for a slick
plane.

Regards,
JIm Patillo N46JP Q200


--- In Q-LIST@..., britmcman@... wrote:

Golly Jim! Is Mark another 4 mph faster? Are there any pictures of
Mark's
VG set-up in the files yet? Great work, Mark!

Cheers,

Phil


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Pictures

Jim Patillo
 

Pat,

Is there any way to relocate my pictures in the files floder to my
album in Photo's. Can you do that as the monitor?

Thanks,
Jim P.


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Larry Severson
 

Golly Jim! Is Mark another 4 mph faster? Are there any pictures of Mark's
VG set-up in the files yet? Great work, Mark!
Any join of surfaces greater than 45 degrees should be contoured (beer can fillet) for minimum drag. I have not seen (noticed) any that have such a fillet below the main wing on Qs.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: Larger fuel tank under seat + higher cabin headroom.

Larry Severson
 

At 06:48 AM 9/15/2006, you wrote:

It is and it limits knowledge exchange.
Not really. With 2/3 subgroups, one can get any info wanted without being bothered with extraneous, to them, e-mails.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

David J. Gall
 

Jim,

That's some good-looking airflow you've got in that wing/fuselage
intersection!


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 9:28 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1


All,

A few weeks ago Mark Summers from Livermore (Q200 with GU
canard) did an oil flow test and found the canard - fuselage
intersection on his plane to be real draggy. The flow lines
were all over the place. He installed a vortex generator on
the GU (at the 40% of cord area) about
1 1/2" from the fuselage and about 3" of dimpled tape up the
side of the fuselage on both sides. He claims about a 4 mph
increase in speed as a result. He repeated the flow test and
found the area cleaned up significantly and the air was now
staying attached.

For a long time now we have been told by people like John
Ronz that this area was suspect. Many of us thought of
reworking the area for drag reduction.

As one always looking for speed I did the oil flow test on my Q200
-LS1 canard this weekend and found a totally different
situation. The air flow in that area of my plane stays
attached. Take a look in the photos section to the left
titled Jim Patillo. AS soon as I landed I looked at the flow
and the lines were straight. (Note these pictures were taken
about 10 minutes after landng and were starting to droop
because fo gravity).. It appears the LS1 also cleaned up
that area for air flow. The only thing I noticed was that at
the sparrow strainer, the flow was not attached fully in that
area. Don't know if that is significant or not. Any opinions?

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200


Re: I need help from you guys

David J. Gall
 

Jim,

When you read the posts on yahoogroups, the website (yahoo) truncates email
addresses. When you have the posts delivered to you as email, you get all
the info. Try this: His address is 1flashq_at_ameritech.net. See below.


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:31 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: I need help from you guys


Joseph,

Its not coming across. Look at your post. My email is
logistics_engineering@...
--- In Q-LIST@..., "Joseph Snow" <1flashq@...> wrote:

Jim,

Thanks for your reply. My address is: 1flashq@...

Joseph Snow


-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Joseph Snow
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:09 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: I need help from you guys

Jim,

Thanks for your reply. My address is: 1flashq@...

Joseph Snow


-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Joseph Snow
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:09 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: I need help from you guys

Jim,

Thanks for your reply. My address is: 1flashq_at_ameritech.net

Joseph Snow


Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Jim Patillo
 

All,

A few weeks ago Mark Summers from Livermore (Q200 with GU canard) did
an oil flow test and found the canard - fuselage intersection on his
plane to be real draggy. The flow lines were all over the place. He
installed a vortex generator on the GU (at the 40% of cord area) about
1 1/2" from the fuselage and about 3" of dimpled tape up the side of
the fuselage on both sides. He claims about a 4 mph increase in speed
as a result. He repeated the flow test and found the area cleaned up
significantly and the air was now staying attached.

For a long time now we have been told by people like John Ronz that
this area was suspect. Many of us thought of reworking the area for
drag reduction.

As one always looking for speed I did the oil flow test on my Q200
-LS1 canard this weekend and found a totally different situation. The
air flow in that area of my plane stays attached. Take a look in the
photos section to the left titled Jim Patillo. AS soon as I landed I
looked at the flow and the lines were straight. (Note these pictures
were taken about 10 minutes after landng and were starting to droop
because fo gravity).. It appears the LS1 also cleaned up that area
for air flow. The only thing I noticed was that at the sparrow
strainer, the flow was not attached fully in that area. Don't know if
that is significant or not. Any opinions?

Jim Patillo N46JP Q200


Re: Oil Tank

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

Sam, I don' have the photos on this computer, will post to the engine group
sometime tomorrow when I have my laptop up and running.



Ron Triano



Sonerai IIs done and flying

Q200, Back working on it, soon to be flying

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Sam Hoskins
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:23 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Oil Tank



Ron,

That is a pretty interesting oil sump. What is their reason for doing all
that? I would assume that it is to eliminate the drag from the fat kidney
tank hanging below the fuselage.

I would hope that you wouldn't take that on, just to accommodate your
exhaust. It should be the other way around.

I would appreciate it if you also posted those photos on the Q-200 Engine
group. http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-200_Engine_Group>
yahoo.com/group/Q-200_Engine_Group

Sam

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Ron Triano
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 5:49 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Oil Tank

Get new idea's from the formula 1 racers every year. Been wondering what to
do to make space for my 4 in one exhaust as the oil tank was in the way. I
will put up on the Q list photos section under rondefly 3 new photos.

Ron

Ron Triano

Sonerai is there and Q200 not far behind

<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.
<http://bld01.
<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html