Date   

Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Dave Richardson <dave@...>
 

Hi Peter,


Very nice Jab installation. Those are an excellent alternative. Just
wish the price were a little more affordable.



You can just see what I was talking about in the upper right photo shown
on this web site





_____

From: Peter Harris [mailto:peterjfharris@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:31 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1



Dave, I made gills for cooling the Norton and have kept them for the
Jabiru
3300 installation. I was not aware of Burt's work. I cut "D" shaped
panels
from the rear side cowl one each side and glassed the "D" reversed
inside
the cowl to make inverted "gills". I think they produce no drag and
located
in this low pressure area they work well. But I have retained the shroud
and
tunnel underneath. When the shroud is closed I get a cruise CHT of
239degF
when ambient is about 77degF. These gills show up in the pics file for
VHONQ
Oskar.

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Dave Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 1:19 AM
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Hi Jim,

I had similar results in some "unscheduled" oil flow tests on my Tri-Q2
with an LS1. The specific point I saw was the arched clean area about
4-5 inches above the canard / fuselage intersection. I always wondered
what the air was doing right in the contour between the canard and
fuselage. Some had suggested that it was compressing the air there
which would cause drag and less of a V shape and more of an L shape
there would help. That is a compound low pressure area from the canard
shape as well as the fuselage shape. In fact, it is low enough to suck
loose oil from inside the cowling (hence my "tests"). You know I think
Burt and co. really had it right on the Quickie by putting the major
cowling exit air out over the canard through those gills. On the Q2/xx
we try to dump the cooling air out into a high pressure area under the
fuselage and we have these two nice low pressure areas. I'm sure there
are other considerations, though. The Eagle 150 uses this area for
their cooling air exit.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the photos.

Dave Richardson

Tri-Q2 825DR 69 hrs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

Sam, are you talking about the small fillet at the wing root junction. Other
than a different paint job each of the 3 years I don't see any change to
anything in that area I have several photos of all the NXTs each year.



Ron



Sonerai flying and Q200 gettin there


<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Sam Hoskins
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:56 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1



Take a look at the wing/fuselage junction on these racers. Pay particular
attention to photos of Nemesis and to Lee Behel, in the Lancair Legacy. I'm
going to do something like that with my Q-200 - someday.

http://www.airventu <http://www.airventure.de/reno05engl_03.htm>
re.de/reno05engl_03.htm

Sam

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:35 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Phil,

Mark is kind of quit. He's off working at Homeland Security in DC as
of last week. You may never see those pictures in the files. Should of
taken pictures when you were here. I said he claims 4 mph, I didn't
say he was getting it! We'll verify next time we fly together.
Although when he says something you can usually count on it.

With his fuel injected pumped up 0200 and this new mod he does have a
fast plane. Mark's made many inovations in drag reduction on his
plane, like cutting the kidney tank in half and keeping the engine
cowling flush with the bottom of fuselage, his own design for VG's on
the GU canard and this latest one. All these things make for a slick
plane.

Regards,
JIm Patillo N46JP Q200

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com,
britmcman@... wrote:

Golly Jim! Is Mark another 4 mph faster? Are there any pictures of
Mark's
VG set-up in the files yet? Great work, Mark!

Cheers,

Phil




Delamination

Allan Farr <afarr@...>
 

Has anyone else had problems with delamination of the fuse/tank floor? I have the tank out inorder to build a new leak-proof one (separate & removable), and the closer I look at the floor, the more problems I find. There is some unevenness (rippling) of the floor - how could this happen, isn't it factory built? Also a couple of areas where the inner glass has delaminated from the foam. I have removed most of the delaminated glass, and some of the foam which was contaminated with something that smelt like ether, but I wonder if patches are good enough or if I should redo the whole floor. As it is, I intend to clean up the areas concerned and reglass with a 3" overlap (& re-foam where it was removed).
Allan F
Q2


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Dave, I made gills for cooling the Norton and have kept them for the Jabiru
3300 installation. I was not aware of Burt's work. I cut "D" shaped panels
from the rear side cowl one each side and glassed the "D" reversed inside
the cowl to make inverted "gills". I think they produce no drag and located
in this low pressure area they work well. But I have retained the shroud and
tunnel underneath. When the shroud is closed I get a cruise CHT of 239degF
when ambient is about 77degF. These gills show up in the pics file for VHONQ
Oskar.

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Dave Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 1:19 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1



Hi Jim,

I had similar results in some "unscheduled" oil flow tests on my Tri-Q2
with an LS1. The specific point I saw was the arched clean area about
4-5 inches above the canard / fuselage intersection. I always wondered
what the air was doing right in the contour between the canard and
fuselage. Some had suggested that it was compressing the air there
which would cause drag and less of a V shape and more of an L shape
there would help. That is a compound low pressure area from the canard
shape as well as the fuselage shape. In fact, it is low enough to suck
loose oil from inside the cowling (hence my "tests"). You know I think
Burt and co. really had it right on the Quickie by putting the major
cowling exit air out over the canard through those gills. On the Q2/xx
we try to dump the cooling air out into a high pressure area under the
fuselage and we have these two nice low pressure areas. I'm sure there
are other considerations, though. The Eagle 150 uses this area for
their cooling air exit.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the photos.

Dave Richardson

Tri-Q2 825DR 69 hrs.


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Some great shots. Time to unload that canard Sam. Where's Jeff Quinn ??

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Sam Hoskins
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 10:56 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1



Take a look at the wing/fuselage junction on these racers. Pay particular
attention to photos of Nemesis and to Lee Behel, in the Lancair Legacy. I'm
going to do something like that with my Q-200 - someday.

http://www.airventu <http://www.airventure.de/reno05engl_03.htm>
re.de/reno05engl_03.htm

Sam

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:35 PM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Phil,

Mark is kind of quit. He's off working at Homeland Security in DC as
of last week. You may never see those pictures in the files. Should of
taken pictures when you were here. I said he claims 4 mph, I didn't
say he was getting it! We'll verify next time we fly together.
Although when he says something you can usually count on it.

With his fuel injected pumped up 0200 and this new mod he does have a
fast plane. Mark's made many inovations in drag reduction on his
plane, like cutting the kidney tank in half and keeping the engine
cowling flush with the bottom of fuselage, his own design for VG's on
the GU canard and this latest one. All these things make for a slick
plane.

Regards,
JIm Patillo N46JP Q200

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com,
britmcman@... wrote:

Golly Jim! Is Mark another 4 mph faster? Are there any pictures of
Mark's
VG set-up in the files yet? Great work, Mark!

Cheers,

Phil




Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

Take a look at the wing/fuselage junction on these racers. Pay particular
attention to photos of Nemesis and to Lee Behel, in the Lancair Legacy. I'm
going to do something like that with my Q-200 - someday.

http://www.airventure.de/reno05engl_03.htm

Sam



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:35 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1




Phil,

Mark is kind of quit. He's off working at Homeland Security in DC as
of last week. You may never see those pictures in the files. Should of
taken pictures when you were here. I said he claims 4 mph, I didn't
say he was getting it! We'll verify next time we fly together.
Although when he says something you can usually count on it.

With his fuel injected pumped up 0200 and this new mod he does have a
fast plane. Mark's made many inovations in drag reduction on his
plane, like cutting the kidney tank in half and keeping the engine
cowling flush with the bottom of fuselage, his own design for VG's on
the GU canard and this latest one. All these things make for a slick
plane.

Regards,
JIm Patillo N46JP Q200

--- In Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com,
britmcman@... wrote:

Golly Jim! Is Mark another 4 mph faster? Are there any pictures of
Mark's
VG set-up in the files yet? Great work, Mark!

Cheers,

Phil




Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
 

Pat I was refering to moving my pictures now in the files section to
the photo section.
10-4.

I've tried, no joy.

No I haven't noticed a spiral slipstream.
Cool.

Pat


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Jim Patillo
 

Pat I was refering to moving my pictures now in the files section to
the photo section.

No I haven't noticed a spiral slipstream.

Thanks Jim

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@...> wrote:

This is the kind of stuff I'd do on a regular basis if only I had a
plane to
fly and experiment with. :(

Good job Jim.

But on a slightly different topic...

We've all heard that the "left turning tendency" is partly due to the
"spiral slipstream" but I've never seen any physical evidence of
this on any
of the planes I rent, like bugs on the left side of the vertical
stab or oil
from the belly making its way up the left side of the fuselage and
onto the
vertical stab and/or rudder.

With your new oil flow tests, are there any signs of the "spiral
slipstream"
in the oil on your plane?

Thanks!

Pat


That sounds good Larry but did you look at the actual facts with the
pix of my canard flow test this weekend. That may shoot your theory
all to hell. The main wing is next. What are you doing to promote
the species? Are you in the air still?


Re: Owner of N813S

Webcave
 

Use the following for N number checks.

_http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.asp_
(http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.asp)

That's where I found the listing.

Jack


Re: Owner of N813S

Webcave
 

N813S is Deregistered

Deregistered Aircraft 1 of 1

Aircraft Description
Serial Number 2087 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name MYERS
GORDON Certificate Issue Date 05/20/1992 Model Q-2 Mode S Code
52613021 Year Manufacturer 1988 Cancel Date 11/21/2002 Reason for
Cancellation Destroyed Exported To


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

One Sky Dog
 

In a message dated 9/19/2006 8:37:15 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

I took careful note of Mark's VG arrangement, but saw no VGs in close
proximity to the upper aft inboard canard region. The implication
was that there
were some special placements of VGs in that area to keep the air
attached.



Ronce says 50% chord for the GU and it is true.

I believe that the GU has a standing separation bubble that forms from the
root and travels out along the hingeline of the elevator. How far out and how
well it develops depends a lot on how the wing was cut and finished, the root
fairing, and the bugs and rain on the leading edge.

I used a wide spacing on my VG's on a Dragonfly 4" between each VG, not
pairs but each one. I have flown in light to moderate rain and they work great. I
do not seek out Cat5 stuff to see if they work in strong rain.

I can see that one VG vortex close to the fuse might disrupt the formation
of the separation bubble. Kinda like sticking your finger in the side of the
vortex in the drain.

Regards,

One Sky Dog


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
 

This is the kind of stuff I'd do on a regular basis if only I had a plane to
fly and experiment with. :(

Good job Jim.

But on a slightly different topic...

We've all heard that the "left turning tendency" is partly due to the
"spiral slipstream" but I've never seen any physical evidence of this on any
of the planes I rent, like bugs on the left side of the vertical stab or oil
from the belly making its way up the left side of the fuselage and onto the
vertical stab and/or rudder.

With your new oil flow tests, are there any signs of the "spiral slipstream"
in the oil on your plane?

Thanks!

Pat

That sounds good Larry but did you look at the actual facts with the
pix of my canard flow test this weekend. That may shoot your theory
all to hell. The main wing is next. What are you doing to promote
the species? Are you in the air still?


Re: Pictures

Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
 

It looks like you did it already.

If you need any more help let me know.

Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Jim Patillo
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:22 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Pictures

Pat,

Is there any way to relocate my pictures in the files floder to my
album in Photo's. Can you do that as the monitor?

Thanks,
Jim P.






Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

Larry Severson
 

Some had suggested that it was compressing the air there
which would cause drag and less of a V shape and more of an L shape
there would help.
Actually, best is a fillet with "beer can" rounding for min drag.


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
larry2@...


Free CAD Program

Bob Farnam <bfarnam@...>
 

For anyone who wants a powerful 2D CAD program free, take a look at this
site.
http://www.deskeng.com/News/Headlines/UGS'-Solid-Edge-2D-Design-Now-Availabl
e-at-No-Cost-200609181273.html
SolidEdge is a leading 3D CAD program, and this is a leader to get people
into their camp.

Bob F.


Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage intersection LS1

David J. Gall
 

You
know I think Burt and co. really had it right on the Quickie
by putting the major cowling exit air out over the canard
through those gills. On the Q2/xx we try to dump the cooling
air out into a high pressure area under the fuselage and we
have these two nice low pressure areas.
Agreed. Check the files section under "Side Cooling" for the late Larry
Koutz' excellent work mapping the low pressure area on his Q200.


David J. Gall


-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Dave Richardson
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:19 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Air Flow at canard - fuselage
intersection LS1

Hi Jim,



I had similar results in some "unscheduled" oil flow tests on
my Tri-Q2 with an LS1. The specific point I saw was the
arched clean area about
4-5 inches above the canard / fuselage intersection. I
always wondered what the air was doing right in the contour
between the canard and fuselage. Some had suggested that it
was compressing the air there which would cause drag and less
of a V shape and more of an L shape there would help. That
is a compound low pressure area from the canard shape as well
as the fuselage shape. In fact, it is low enough to suck
loose oil from inside the cowling (hence my "tests"). You
know I think Burt and co. really had it right on the Quickie
by putting the major cowling exit air out over the canard
through those gills. On the Q2/xx we try to dump the cooling
air out into a high pressure area under the fuselage and we
have these two nice low pressure areas. I'm sure there are
other considerations, though. The Eagle 150 uses this area
for their cooling air exit.



Anyway, thanks for sharing the photos.



Dave Richardson

Tri-Q2 825DR 69 hrs.



Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links









Re: Owner of N813S

Steve <sham@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Creech
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:23 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Owner of N813S


Anyone know who owns N813S? It's a Q2 wich I almost bought back in 1999. It was based around Van Nyse, CA (Los Angles Area).

I ran a N number check on it on Landings.com and it didn't have a record of the aircraft.

Thanks,
Danny Creech


Re: Owner of N813S

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

If you go to the FAA site it states it was destroyed and de-registered. Also
gives the name of the person it was registered to prior to the
de-registration.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.asp



Ron T



Sonerai flying and Q200 gettin there


<http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html>
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page11.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Danny Creech
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:23 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Owner of N813S



Anyone know who owns N813S? It's a Q2 wich I almost bought back in 1999. It
was based around Van Nyse, CA (Los Angles Area).

I ran a N number check on it on Landings.com and it didn't have a record of
the aircraft.

Thanks,
Danny Creech


Re: Owner of N813S

Patrick Panzera <panzera@...>
 

Anyone know who owns N813S? It's a Q2 wich I almost bought back in 1999.
It was based around Van Nyse, CA (Los Angles Area).

I ran a N number check on it on Landings.com and it didn't have a record
of the aircraft.


Owner of N813S

Danny Creech <dannycreech@...>
 

Anyone know who owns N813S? It's a Q2 wich I almost bought back in 1999. It was based around Van Nyse, CA (Los Angles Area).

I ran a N number check on it on Landings.com and it didn't have a record of the aircraft.

Thanks,
Danny Creech