Date   

Re: Flight characteristics questions

David J. Gall
 

Michel,

Yes.

There is no undercamber on the GU elevator so the aero forces involved are
not large. However, the system does rely on the up-spring to hold the
trailing edge of the elevetor down in flight.

Early on in the pages of QuickTalk there were a couple of reports of trim
system failures ("modified hackwaw blade" failures) in the original Quickie.
The ensuing requirement for holding continuous back pressure was reported,
as well as the fatigue level of doing so for as little as ten minutes. (I'm
not going to look up the exact issue number.)

I'm not planning to re-engineer or suggest that anyone else re-engineer the
system on the GU canard, but be aware that it is a potential problem.

IF<< I were to reengineer the system, I think I'd merely "reflex" the
trailing edge of the elevator ever so slightly, as John Roncz did for the
Roncz 1145MS replacement canard airfoil for the Long-EZ.

IF<< I thought it was a problem of sufficient magnitude and was trying to
retrofit the existing GU elevator, I think I'd add sparrow strainers, though
they would not need to be angled nearly so severely as on the LS(1)
elevator. Of course, exact size and placement aft of the trailing edge would
be a matter of trial and error, and balancing the elevators against flutter
with the additional mass of the sparrow strainers aft of the hinge line is
an additional concern.

Like I said, I'm not planning to re-engineer or suggest that anyone else
re-engineer the system on the GU canard, but be aware that it is a potential
problem in the event of a control system and/or trim system mechanical
failure.


David J. Gall

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Michel Moreau
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:43 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions

David,

Does this apply to GU as well as LS1? I don't see a "slight
undercamber" on my GU elevator.
Thanks for such a clear explanation of the phenomenon.

MM

----- Original Message -----
From: "David J. Gall" <David@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions


Sam,

I think you're thinking backwards here. The described
behavior indicates
sparrow strainers that are too small, not too large; or not
angled enough
(trailing edge up) instead of too steeply.

Without sparrow strainers, when the airplane inadvertently
goes faster
than
its trimmed airspeed, the slight undercamber of the LS(1)
elevator causes
aerodynamic force that pushes the trailing edge of the
elevator up. This
lets the airplane's nose come down and allows the airplane
to accelerate
to
a yet-higher speed. NOT GOOD!

The sole purpose of sparrow strainers is to REVERSE this
pattern. When the
nose inadvertently drops and the speed builds, the sparrow
strainers
should
push the trailing edge of the elevator down so as to raise
the nose of the
airplane, thus slowing it back down. Conversely, when the
airplane slows
down (due to an inadvertent climb) the decreasing dynamic
pressure on the
sparrow strainers lets them allow the trailing edge of the
elevators to
come
up (usually in response to a down-spring in the trim
system), lowering the
nose and restoring the airplane to it's original airspeed.

This is speed stability. It is closely associated with
pitch stability,
but
is not the same thing. Burt Rutan devoted several issues of
his Canard
Pusher newsletter to describing it, discussing it, and
reporting on the
requirements for it in his several homebuilders' designs.

Another clue to incorrect speed stability is light or
"sensitive" pitch
control, as reported in Mr. Q2fun's item #1. True, pitch
sensitivity is
also
a function of CG position, but given two otherwise
identical airplanes
with
the same CG location, the one with greater speed stability will have
less-sensitive pitch feel. That's because the greater
aerodynamic forces
of
the larger or more effective (larger/correct deflection
angle) sparrow
strainers will cause the elevator stick force to be greater
for any given
deflection of the elevators away from their trim position.
It's kind of
like
using a larger paddle on a canoe, you just have to pull
harder to get it
to
move through the water.

A more effective sparrow strainer will also need to be met
with greater
tension in the pitch down-spring of the spring-type pitch
trim system at
higher airspeeds. If the down spring of the trim system is
only lightly
loaded at cruise speed or if the up-spring is loaded and
the down spring
is
slack at cruise speed (heaven forbid!) then there is a real
problem and a
potentially dangerous situation.

What happens if the up-spring is loaded at cruise? If the
nose drops, the
aerodynamic forces get stronger while the spring force
stays the same, so
the aerodynamic forces "win." The up-spring was resisting
the aero forces
that want to make the airplane dive, but those forces now
win and the
airplane dives. Conversely, if the down-spring is loaded at
cruise, then a
nose drop again means larger aero forces, but those forces
(from the
sparrow
strainers) act to RAISE the nose, not lower it further.
Raising the nose
restores the airplane to level flight.

Rutan advised his builders that his airplane designs should be
AERODYNAMICALLY trimmed to a low-cruise airspeed when flown
hands-off and
with the pitch trim system disconnected. His rationale is that if a
crucial
part or connection in the pitch control system should fail
thereby leaving
an elevator completely disconnected from the trim system
and the control
system, it does not automatically kill the pilot. I do NOT advise
disconnecting the trim system in a Q2 or Q200 or even a
Quickie because of
the risks involved, but you can certainly look at your trim
springs and
simulate a disconnect by moving the trim control to make
them as equally
slack as possible. By this method one might be able to get
a relative idea
of what the sparrow strainers are doing and what the airplane's
aerodynamic
trim speed is.

In summary, I think there is a dangerous situation being
described by Mr.
Q2fun and I hope he gets his sparrow strainers and trim
system looked at
by
one of the "old heads" on this list to see if it is rigged
right or if
there's something amiss. I'll wager that the up-spring is
doing a lot of
work at cruise speeds and just loses the battle against
aero forces at
speeds above 150 mph. Not good -- not safe!

Just my worry-wart two cents worth,


David J. Gall
BSAE
Sacramento, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 5:02 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions

1. I think pitch sensitivity is normal, especially with aft
CG and at high
(8,000+ft) altitude.

2. My plane does the same. The rudder doesn't control bank,
the ailerons do.

2. This sounds a little odd. Maybe the sparrow strainers
are too big or have too steep of an angle. It could also be
that your canard needs to be adjusted up a degree or so.
Maybe try installing adjustable sparrow strainers first.
That would be an easy experiment.

Sam Hoskins Q-200 1,600+ hrs.

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of q2fun
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:28 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions



Hi All,

I have some questions about the flight characteristics of the Q-2.
Pitch sensitivity. With an after c/g my Q2 seams pitch sensitive.
My Q2 has the LS1 canard, Revmaster 65hp, tail dragger. Is it
normal to get more pitch sensitive the more aft the C/G gets?

Rudder to control bank. My rudder does not do anything for bank.
If the wing is down 5 degrees and you use the rudder to bring
it up, all that happens is the plane will yaw and the bank
may even get steeper. Is that a normal characteristic of the
Q design?

With an increase in airspeed above 150 mph indicated the
airplane wants to pitch down and farther increase
airspeed/pitch down harder. Is this normal? Sparrow strainers
to small for this airspeed? I have the standard pitch trim system.

I have been flying my Q since April and now have 62 hours in
it. It is a joy to blast around the pattern and it is even a
joy to put gas in it after a long cross county. It is just a
little too slow in cruise 130 kts.

Thank You All.
Tim Bryant
KUNV
N86TB


Re: Locations

britmcman99
 

Mail them via USPS. That should tie them up for a while.

Phil


Re: Flight characteristics questions

michel & hélène moreau
 

David,

Does this apply to GU as well as LS1? I don't see a "slight undercamber" on my GU elevator.
Thanks for such a clear explanation of the phenomenon.

MM

----- Original Message -----
From: "David J. Gall" <David@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions


Sam,

I think you're thinking backwards here. The described behavior indicates
sparrow strainers that are too small, not too large; or not angled enough
(trailing edge up) instead of too steeply.

Without sparrow strainers, when the airplane inadvertently goes faster than
its trimmed airspeed, the slight undercamber of the LS(1) elevator causes
aerodynamic force that pushes the trailing edge of the elevator up. This
lets the airplane's nose come down and allows the airplane to accelerate to
a yet-higher speed. NOT GOOD!

The sole purpose of sparrow strainers is to REVERSE this pattern. When the
nose inadvertently drops and the speed builds, the sparrow strainers should
push the trailing edge of the elevator down so as to raise the nose of the
airplane, thus slowing it back down. Conversely, when the airplane slows
down (due to an inadvertent climb) the decreasing dynamic pressure on the
sparrow strainers lets them allow the trailing edge of the elevators to come
up (usually in response to a down-spring in the trim system), lowering the
nose and restoring the airplane to it's original airspeed.

This is speed stability. It is closely associated with pitch stability, but
is not the same thing. Burt Rutan devoted several issues of his Canard
Pusher newsletter to describing it, discussing it, and reporting on the
requirements for it in his several homebuilders' designs.

Another clue to incorrect speed stability is light or "sensitive" pitch
control, as reported in Mr. Q2fun's item #1. True, pitch sensitivity is also
a function of CG position, but given two otherwise identical airplanes with
the same CG location, the one with greater speed stability will have
less-sensitive pitch feel. That's because the greater aerodynamic forces of
the larger or more effective (larger/correct deflection angle) sparrow
strainers will cause the elevator stick force to be greater for any given
deflection of the elevators away from their trim position. It's kind of like
using a larger paddle on a canoe, you just have to pull harder to get it to
move through the water.

A more effective sparrow strainer will also need to be met with greater
tension in the pitch down-spring of the spring-type pitch trim system at
higher airspeeds. If the down spring of the trim system is only lightly
loaded at cruise speed or if the up-spring is loaded and the down spring is
slack at cruise speed (heaven forbid!) then there is a real problem and a
potentially dangerous situation.

What happens if the up-spring is loaded at cruise? If the nose drops, the
aerodynamic forces get stronger while the spring force stays the same, so
the aerodynamic forces "win." The up-spring was resisting the aero forces
that want to make the airplane dive, but those forces now win and the
airplane dives. Conversely, if the down-spring is loaded at cruise, then a
nose drop again means larger aero forces, but those forces (from the sparrow
strainers) act to RAISE the nose, not lower it further. Raising the nose
restores the airplane to level flight.

Rutan advised his builders that his airplane designs should be
AERODYNAMICALLY trimmed to a low-cruise airspeed when flown hands-off and
with the pitch trim system disconnected. His rationale is that if a crucial
part or connection in the pitch control system should fail thereby leaving
an elevator completely disconnected from the trim system and the control
system, it does not automatically kill the pilot. I do NOT advise
disconnecting the trim system in a Q2 or Q200 or even a Quickie because of
the risks involved, but you can certainly look at your trim springs and
simulate a disconnect by moving the trim control to make them as equally
slack as possible. By this method one might be able to get a relative idea
of what the sparrow strainers are doing and what the airplane's aerodynamic
trim speed is.

In summary, I think there is a dangerous situation being described by Mr.
Q2fun and I hope he gets his sparrow strainers and trim system looked at by
one of the "old heads" on this list to see if it is rigged right or if
there's something amiss. I'll wager that the up-spring is doing a lot of
work at cruise speeds and just loses the battle against aero forces at
speeds above 150 mph. Not good -- not safe!

Just my worry-wart two cents worth,


David J. Gall
BSAE
Sacramento, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 5:02 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions

1. I think pitch sensitivity is normal, especially with aft
CG and at high
(8,000+ft) altitude.

2. My plane does the same. The rudder doesn't control bank,
the ailerons do.

2. This sounds a little odd. Maybe the sparrow strainers
are too big or have too steep of an angle. It could also be
that your canard needs to be adjusted up a degree or so.
Maybe try installing adjustable sparrow strainers first.
That would be an easy experiment.

Sam Hoskins Q-200 1,600+ hrs.

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of q2fun
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:28 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions



Hi All,

I have some questions about the flight characteristics of the Q-2.
Pitch sensitivity. With an after c/g my Q2 seams pitch sensitive.
My Q2 has the LS1 canard, Revmaster 65hp, tail dragger. Is it
normal to get more pitch sensitive the more aft the C/G gets?

Rudder to control bank. My rudder does not do anything for bank.
If the wing is down 5 degrees and you use the rudder to bring
it up, all that happens is the plane will yaw and the bank
may even get steeper. Is that a normal characteristic of the
Q design?

With an increase in airspeed above 150 mph indicated the
airplane wants to pitch down and farther increase
airspeed/pitch down harder. Is this normal? Sparrow strainers
to small for this airspeed? I have the standard pitch trim system.

I have been flying my Q since April and now have 62 hours in
it. It is a joy to blast around the pattern and it is even a
joy to put gas in it after a long cross county. It is just a
little too slow in cruise 130 kts.

Thank You All.
Tim Bryant
KUNV
N86TB








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links






Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Locations

Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

I agree with you Darrell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark A. Pearson" <wlkabout@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Locations


Since you mentioned taxation. There is an answer. It eliminates the IRS, income taxation and functionally (and really) untaxes everyone below the poverty line. It is called the Fair Tax (it is H.R. 25;S. 25). While I won't use this forum to get on my soapbox, I recommend everyone check out www.fairtax.org.

And now we return to our regular programming.

Mark A. Pearson
(Possibly) the longest Q1 builder.
----- Original Message -----
From: jcrain2@...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Locations


Tee Hee,
That's what Jimmy Hoffa Sr. would have done! Although the preferred
method was "cement overshoes" wasn't it? They do seem to be out of
touch with us "low lifers" that actually make the money and pay them
for "taxation without representation".
Bruce


Bruce, why don't you just shoot them?

Ron Triano

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Sonerai there and Q200 gettin there

__________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!








Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: Locations

Darrell Daniels <log@...>
 

My brother works for the wonderful UPS company, I think they need some Jimmy shootings in the management of the good old UPS Darrell

----- Original Message -----
From: <jcrain2@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Locations


Tee Hee,
That's what Jimmy Hoffa Sr. would have done! Although the preferred
method was "cement overshoes" wasn't it? They do seem to be out of
touch with us "low lifers" that actually make the money and pay them
for "taxation without representation".
Bruce


Bruce, why don't you just shoot them?

Ron Triano

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Sonerai there and Q200 gettin there






________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!




Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: Locations

Mark A. Pearson <wlkabout@...>
 

Since you mentioned taxation. There is an answer. It eliminates the IRS, income taxation and functionally (and really) untaxes everyone below the poverty line. It is called the Fair Tax (it is H.R. 25;S. 25). While I won't use this forum to get on my soapbox, I recommend everyone check out www.fairtax.org.

And now we return to our regular programming.

Mark A. Pearson
(Possibly) the longest Q1 builder.

----- Original Message -----
From: jcrain2@...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: Locations


Tee Hee,
That's what Jimmy Hoffa Sr. would have done! Although the preferred
method was "cement overshoes" wasn't it? They do seem to be out of
touch with us "low lifers" that actually make the money and pay them
for "taxation without representation".
Bruce


Bruce, why don't you just shoot them?

Ron Triano

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Sonerai there and Q200 gettin there

__________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!


Headset

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

Does anyone have a headset they would like to part with? I need a better set
that will cut out some of the noise from the prop and engine. Not quite
ready to part with 600 + for a real nice set yet. Let me know what you have
and how much you need to get for it at rondefly@....



Thanks



Ron Triano

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Sonerai flying, Q200 getting there


Re: Locations

Bruce Crain
 

Tee Hee,
That's what Jimmy Hoffa Sr. would have done! Although the preferred
method was "cement overshoes" wasn't it? They do seem to be out of
touch with us "low lifers" that actually make the money and pay them
for "taxation without representation".
Bruce


Bruce, why don't you just shoot them?

Ron Triano

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Sonerai there and Q200 gettin there






________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!


Re: Locations

Ron Triano <rondefly@...>
 

Bruce, why don't you just shoot them?



Ron Triano

South Lake Tahoe, CA



Sonerai there and Q200 gettin there

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
jcrain2@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:31 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Locations



Sorry guys,
I will be unable to attend Oshkosh again this year. I have been at UPS
for almost 25 years and been bumped by higher seniority drivers again.
Several have been there for 32,33 34 years because Jimmy Haffa has
stolen our retirement so they cannot retire. Thus they take up much of
the summer months vacations especially during July.

Bruce Crain
N96BJ

__________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno. <http://www.juno.com/value> com/value to sign up
today!


Re: Locations

Bruce Crain
 

Sorry guys,
I will be unable to attend Oshkosh again this year. I have been at UPS
for almost 25 years and been bumped by higher seniority drivers again.
Several have been there for 32,33 34 years because Jimmy Haffa has
stolen our retirement so they cannot retire. Thus they take up much of
the summer months vacations especially during July.

Bruce Crain
N96BJ





________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!


Re: Flight characteristics questions

David J. Gall
 

Sam,

I think you're thinking backwards here. The described behavior indicates
sparrow strainers that are too small, not too large; or not angled enough
(trailing edge up) instead of too steeply.

Without sparrow strainers, when the airplane inadvertently goes faster than
its trimmed airspeed, the slight undercamber of the LS(1) elevator causes
aerodynamic force that pushes the trailing edge of the elevator up. This
lets the airplane's nose come down and allows the airplane to accelerate to
a yet-higher speed. NOT GOOD!

The sole purpose of sparrow strainers is to REVERSE this pattern. When the
nose inadvertently drops and the speed builds, the sparrow strainers should
push the trailing edge of the elevator down so as to raise the nose of the
airplane, thus slowing it back down. Conversely, when the airplane slows
down (due to an inadvertent climb) the decreasing dynamic pressure on the
sparrow strainers lets them allow the trailing edge of the elevators to come
up (usually in response to a down-spring in the trim system), lowering the
nose and restoring the airplane to it's original airspeed.

This is speed stability. It is closely associated with pitch stability, but
is not the same thing. Burt Rutan devoted several issues of his Canard
Pusher newsletter to describing it, discussing it, and reporting on the
requirements for it in his several homebuilders' designs.

Another clue to incorrect speed stability is light or "sensitive" pitch
control, as reported in Mr. Q2fun's item #1. True, pitch sensitivity is also
a function of CG position, but given two otherwise identical airplanes with
the same CG location, the one with greater speed stability will have
less-sensitive pitch feel. That's because the greater aerodynamic forces of
the larger or more effective (larger/correct deflection angle) sparrow
strainers will cause the elevator stick force to be greater for any given
deflection of the elevators away from their trim position. It's kind of like
using a larger paddle on a canoe, you just have to pull harder to get it to
move through the water.

A more effective sparrow strainer will also need to be met with greater
tension in the pitch down-spring of the spring-type pitch trim system at
higher airspeeds. If the down spring of the trim system is only lightly
loaded at cruise speed or if the up-spring is loaded and the down spring is
slack at cruise speed (heaven forbid!) then there is a real problem and a
potentially dangerous situation.

What happens if the up-spring is loaded at cruise? If the nose drops, the
aerodynamic forces get stronger while the spring force stays the same, so
the aerodynamic forces "win." The up-spring was resisting the aero forces
that want to make the airplane dive, but those forces now win and the
airplane dives. Conversely, if the down-spring is loaded at cruise, then a
nose drop again means larger aero forces, but those forces (from the sparrow
strainers) act to RAISE the nose, not lower it further. Raising the nose
restores the airplane to level flight.

Rutan advised his builders that his airplane designs should be
AERODYNAMICALLY trimmed to a low-cruise airspeed when flown hands-off and
with the pitch trim system disconnected. His rationale is that if a crucial
part or connection in the pitch control system should fail thereby leaving
an elevator completely disconnected from the trim system and the control
system, it does not automatically kill the pilot. I do NOT advise
disconnecting the trim system in a Q2 or Q200 or even a Quickie because of
the risks involved, but you can certainly look at your trim springs and
simulate a disconnect by moving the trim control to make them as equally
slack as possible. By this method one might be able to get a relative idea
of what the sparrow strainers are doing and what the airplane's aerodynamic
trim speed is.

In summary, I think there is a dangerous situation being described by Mr.
Q2fun and I hope he gets his sparrow strainers and trim system looked at by
one of the "old heads" on this list to see if it is rigged right or if
there's something amiss. I'll wager that the up-spring is doing a lot of
work at cruise speeds and just loses the battle against aero forces at
speeds above 150 mph. Not good -- not safe!

Just my worry-wart two cents worth,


David J. Gall
BSAE
Sacramento, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 5:02 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions

1. I think pitch sensitivity is normal, especially with aft
CG and at high
(8,000+ft) altitude.

2. My plane does the same. The rudder doesn't control bank,
the ailerons do.

2. This sounds a little odd. Maybe the sparrow strainers
are too big or have too steep of an angle. It could also be
that your canard needs to be adjusted up a degree or so.
Maybe try installing adjustable sparrow strainers first.
That would be an easy experiment.

Sam Hoskins Q-200 1,600+ hrs.

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
On Behalf Of q2fun
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:28 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions



Hi All,

I have some questions about the flight characteristics of the Q-2.
Pitch sensitivity. With an after c/g my Q2 seams pitch sensitive.
My Q2 has the LS1 canard, Revmaster 65hp, tail dragger. Is it
normal to get more pitch sensitive the more aft the C/G gets?

Rudder to control bank. My rudder does not do anything for bank.
If the wing is down 5 degrees and you use the rudder to bring
it up, all that happens is the plane will yaw and the bank
may even get steeper. Is that a normal characteristic of the
Q design?

With an increase in airspeed above 150 mph indicated the
airplane wants to pitch down and farther increase
airspeed/pitch down harder. Is this normal? Sparrow strainers
to small for this airspeed? I have the standard pitch trim system.

I have been flying my Q since April and now have 62 hours in
it. It is a joy to blast around the pattern and it is even a
joy to put gas in it after a long cross county. It is just a
little too slow in cruise 130 kts.

Thank You All.
Tim Bryant
KUNV
N86TB









Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: posa carb manual

Terry Adams
 

The overhaul charge at 800 hrs for the Ellison is just slightly less than the replacement cost.
I am using an AeroCarb, easy to tune and maintain.

Terry

----- Original Message -----
From: oneskydog@...
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] posa carb manual



In a message dated 10/16/2006 7:25:19 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rebeccaandtad_simpson@... writes:

Does anyone have a manual for adjusting a POSA carb ?

Thanks,
Tad

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IMHO
Step 1. Deposit in recycle bin.
Step 2. Replace with Revflow or Ellison

Regards

One Sky Dog


Re: posa carb manual

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

Go to the QBA web site under Resources and Posa Carbs.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: rebeccaandtad_simpson
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 8:23 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] posa carb manual


Does anyone have a manual for adjusting a POSA carb ?

Thanks,
Tad


Aviation related policy poll

Mark A. Pearson <wlkabout@...>
 

Guys:
Vote.com is asking whether restricitons should be increased for small plane flights in/near cities. Right now "yes" is winning (2/3rds to 1/3rd).

Mark


posa carb manual

REBECCA SIMPSON
 

Does anyone have a manual for adjusting a POSA carb ?

Thanks,
Tad


Re: Flight characteristics questions

Jim Patillo
 

TIM, FIRST CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR 62 HOURS FLIGHT TIME IN A Q.
YOU'VE JOINED A UNIQUE CLUB.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "q2fun" <q2fun@...> wrote:

Hi All,

I have some questions about the flight characteristics of the Q-
2.
Pitch sensitivity. With an after c/g my Q2 seams pitch
sensitive.
My Q2 has the LS1 canard, Revmaster 65hp, tail dragger. Is it
normal to get more pitch sensitive the more aft the C/G gets?
ABSOLUTELY! FAR AFT CG IS NOT A GOOD PLACE TO BE IN THIS PLANE.

Rudder to control bank. My rudder does not do anything for bank.
If the wing is down 5 degrees and you use the rudder to bring it
up,
all that happens is the plane will yaw and the bank may even get
steeper. Is that a normal characteristic of the Q design?
MAYBE. IN LEVEL FLIGHT, PUSHING THE RUDDER WILL DEFINATELY YAW THE
TAIL BUT I HAVEN'T NOTICE THE BANK INCREASING. IN SLIGHT BANKS MINE
WILL RECOVER USING THE RUDDER ONLY. I THINK THE SMALL RUDDER ON
THESE PLANES DOES A GOOD JOB BUT RECOVERING FROM A BANK SOLELY USING
RUDDER .......NOT SO GOOD. I WILL CHECK IT OUT WHEN I FLY AGAIN.

With an increase in airspeed above 150 mph indicated the airplane
wants to pitch down and farther increase airspeed/pitch down
harder. Is this normal? Sparrow strainers to small for this
airspeed? I have the standard pitch trim system.
I CRUISED MY Q200 (LS1)SATURDAY FROM 130 TO 185K AND DID NOT NOTICE
ANY TUCKING OR PITCHING. I ALSO HAVE A STANDARD TRIM SYSTEM. MAYBE
YOUR STRAINERS ARE INSTALLED INCORRECT.

I have been flying my Q since April and now have 62 hours in it.
It
is a joy to blast around the pattern and it is even a joy to put
gas
in it after a long cross county. It is just a little too slow in
cruise 130 kts.
YOU CAN FIX THAT! TIM WE SEE 160-165K CRUISE STANDARD WITH PUMPED
0200'S (TAIL DRAGGER VERSION). JUST COSTS A LITTLE $$$$$$$.

REGARDS,
JIM PATILLO

Thank You All.
Tim Bryant
KUNV
N86TB


Re: Flight characteristics questions

Sam Hoskins <shoskins@...>
 

1. I think pitch sensitivity is normal, especially with aft CG and at high
(8,000+ft) altitude.

2. My plane does the same. The rudder doesn't control bank, the ailerons
do.

2. This sounds a little odd. Maybe the sparrow strainers are too big or
have too steep of an angle. It could also be that your canard needs to be
adjusted up a degree or so. Maybe try installing adjustable sparrow
strainers first. That would be an easy experiment.

Sam Hoskins Q-200 1,600+ hrs.

Murphysboro, IL



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
q2fun
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:28 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Flight characteristics questions



Hi All,

I have some questions about the flight characteristics of the Q-2.
Pitch sensitivity. With an after c/g my Q2 seams pitch sensitive.
My Q2 has the LS1 canard, Revmaster 65hp, tail dragger. Is it
normal to get more pitch sensitive the more aft the C/G gets?

Rudder to control bank. My rudder does not do anything for bank.
If the wing is down 5 degrees and you use the rudder to bring it up,
all that happens is the plane will yaw and the bank may even get
steeper. Is that a normal characteristic of the Q design?

With an increase in airspeed above 150 mph indicated the airplane
wants to pitch down and farther increase airspeed/pitch down
harder. Is this normal? Sparrow strainers to small for this
airspeed? I have the standard pitch trim system.

I have been flying my Q since April and now have 62 hours in it. It
is a joy to blast around the pattern and it is even a joy to put gas
in it after a long cross county. It is just a little too slow in
cruise 130 kts.

Thank You All.
Tim Bryant
KUNV
N86TB


Re: Need help in Jacksonville Fla.

Peter Harris <peterjfharris@...>
 

Gus that should read "when you refit the wheel pants do the Gall alignment"

Peter



_____

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
Peter Harris
Sent: Tuesday, 17 October 2006 7:19 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Need help in Jacksonville Fla.



Gus I would suggest that you remove both of the wheel pants and carefully
locate the ends of the spars (assuming it is an LS1) then measure to locate
the centre. When you refit the spars use the Gall alignment method. If it is
not an LS1 I would start again and make one.

Peter

_____

From: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of
phoil_phreak
Sent: Monday, 16 October 2006 10:49 AM
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: [Q-LIST] Need help in Jacksonville Fla.

Greetings Everyone,
My friend Jack has aquired a Q2 that had a bit of a hard landing and
cracked the canard. A new canard had been mostly fabricated when the
old owner lost interest in the plane and sold it. We are faced with a
canard that has no discernible center point and a lack of trust in the
absolute placement of portions of the old wheel pants for use as
measuring points. The plane was stripped when we received it, however
we believe that we have all the bits and pieces. We are hoping to find
someone in the Northeast Fla. area that can lend some insight and
guidance to two newbies. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Gus Raiford


Flight characteristics questions

q2fun
 

Hi All,

I have some questions about the flight characteristics of the Q-2.
Pitch sensitivity. With an after c/g my Q2 seams pitch sensitive.
My Q2 has the LS1 canard, Revmaster 65hp, tail dragger. Is it
normal to get more pitch sensitive the more aft the C/G gets?

Rudder to control bank. My rudder does not do anything for bank.
If the wing is down 5 degrees and you use the rudder to bring it up,
all that happens is the plane will yaw and the bank may even get
steeper. Is that a normal characteristic of the Q design?

With an increase in airspeed above 150 mph indicated the airplane
wants to pitch down and farther increase airspeed/pitch down
harder. Is this normal? Sparrow strainers to small for this
airspeed? I have the standard pitch trim system.

I have been flying my Q since April and now have 62 hours in it. It
is a joy to blast around the pattern and it is even a joy to put gas
in it after a long cross county. It is just a little too slow in
cruise 130 kts.

Thank You All.
Tim Bryant
KUNV
N86TB


Re: posa carb manual

One Sky Dog
 

In a message dated 10/16/2006 7:25:19 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
rebeccaandtad_simpson@... writes:




Does anyone have a manual for adjusting a POSA carb ?

Thanks,
Tad






IMHO
Step 1. Deposit in recycle bin.
Step 2. Replace with Revflow or Ellison

Regards

One Sky Dog