Date   

Re: Vortex Generator spacing templates

Michael Quinn
 

I would draw a ruler and put "registration marks" on the page with your drawing or paint program (or cad before you output it to jpg, tiff, or whatever). I put a border around the page with inches (or cm) on at least 2 sides (for vertical and horizontal comparisons). I have done this with paint even and then print it out - test it, then check the size of the VG against the real thing - then check your registration marks that you drew on it (to see if they were exact to a physical ruler) - then you would be able to share the giff, tiff, or jpg - the person recieving it would be able to see if their printout was accurate by the registration marks on the printout and their own ruler (if incorrect they could scale the printout up or down until they got a printout that matched their ruler). I hope this helps!



M.



To: Q-LIST@...
From: wypaul2001@...
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 11:03:41 +0000
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Vortex Generator spacing templates





The reason for not providing the jpg is that it will not print to the proper size. There are several free readers available and then check the measurement, it should be 10 1/8" overall. I will change the files and add this measurement this evening. If all else fails contact me with a fax number and I will fax you a copy if you have the GU canard.

Paul

--- In Q-LIST@..., "HAROLD DIRKS" <hardot7776@...> wrote:

Paul,

How about converting these files to jpg format so those of us without CAD software can see them?


----- Original Message -----
From: Paul S<mailto:wypaul2001@...>
To: Q-LIST@...<mailto:Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:47 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Vortex Generator spacing templates


I have downloaded a couple of vortex generator templates for the GU canard. One with wide spacing and one with narrow spacing. I am using the wide spacing suggested by Keith Welsh that uses about 1/2 as many generators and it is doing the job very good.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/files/VG%20Templates/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/files/VG%20Templates/>

Paul














_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/


Re: Made it home finally

Fisher Paul A. <fisherpaula@...>
 

I look forward to your report Jay. Hopefully it will inspire others (Alan) to finish their airplanes too.

Glad you made it home safely.

- Paul

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 22:44
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Made it home finally



... snip...

For now it looks pretty interesting.I'll keep you posted.

Cheers,

Jay


Re: Vortex Generator spacing templates

Paul Spackman
 

The reason for not providing the jpg is that it will not print to the proper size. There are several free readers available and then check the measurement, it should be 10 1/8" overall. I will change the files and add this measurement this evening. If all else fails contact me with a fax number and I will fax you a copy if you have the GU canard.

Paul

--- In Q-LIST@..., "HAROLD DIRKS" <hardot7776@...> wrote:

Paul,

How about converting these files to jpg format so those of us without CAD software can see them?


----- Original Message -----
From: Paul S<mailto:wypaul2001@...>
To: Q-LIST@...<mailto:Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:47 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Vortex Generator spacing templates


I have downloaded a couple of vortex generator templates for the GU canard. One with wide spacing and one with narrow spacing. I am using the wide spacing suggested by Keith Welsh that uses about 1/2 as many generators and it is doing the job very good.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/files/VG%20Templates/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/files/VG%20Templates/>

Paul







Fuelventure at Copperstate

ERacerVinn@...
 

Our fuel efficiency contest at COPPERSTATE is moving ahead. Due to the
time limitation of weighing aircraft, entries will be limited to 25
airplanes. If you want to compete, please send me an e-mail to reserve your slot in
the competition.

Thanks,

For more info:

_www.fuelventure.org_ (http://www.fuelventure.org)

Thanks,
Bruce Vinnola
ERacer N5ZW
Q1 plans


Made it home finally

Jay Scheevel <scheevel@...>
 

Hi guys,



I finally made it home today, and none too soon because it is my wife's
birthday. Spent two days weathered in at Canon City (west of Pueblo), but
did enjoy it because I got to hang out at the airport with some interesting
guys and I always bring my work along on my computer, so I actually got some
work done. I could have done without the two additional days of hotel,
though.



Thanks many times over to Doug for putting up such a great show and to all
of you guys who work so hard to bring your beautiful planes out to this
event. Your enthusiasm really inspires me (and Alan too).



During my layover in Canon City, I did a little reduction of the some of the
data that I gathered (with some help from everyone on all of your planes). I
will assemble a complete technical report, and will send a short advance
newsletter report to Doug, if he will let me know when he needs it to get it
into the next newsletter. I want to thank all the people who let me paw
over your plane. I also want to stress that, since all of the Q's I
measured are successfully flying and the pilots are not afraid to take them
cross country in challenging conditions, we must conclude that the
population of data I have gathered is a reasonable demonstration of
acceptable, minimum demonstrated ranges of airworthy tolerances. Just a few
early highlights: I gave up measuring all BL's on both sides after doing
several airplanes, in order for me to use the limited time to add more
aircraft to the sample, but the ones that I did measure (left versus right)
tell me that we can successfully fly with as much as 1 degree of incidence
difference between left and right wings. Of course this means a roll
tendency, but that can be successfully handled with rig and trim after the
fact. As far as wing to canard relative incidences, I do not have absolute
numbers, but it looks like the variation of relative incidences is almost 6
degrees. This is to say that if you hold the canard angle of incidence as
constant, then the range of incidences of the wings that I measured varies
by as much as 6 degrees from aircraft to aircraft. This is a much larger
range than I expected and once again indicates that a successfully flying Q
can has a large tolerance for relative angle of attack. I will be able to
comment more on this in a full article and hopefully correlate the numbers
with performance. I did not get a chance to measure Bruce Crain's (wing or
canard), Jon Finley's (wing or canard), Dave Dugas' (wing or canard) or Paul
Spackman's (canard), so there is plenty more to do. I will try to bring my
device to each fly-in and gather more data. For now it looks pretty
interesting.I'll keep you posted.



Cheers,

Jay


Re: Still out here!!!

Bruce Crain
 

CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR!
Sorry Jerry I couldn't resist. At least you had your entourage in place for plan B! That girl's gotta' love ya drivin' all that way and takin' such good care of you. Nice pick!
Bruce and Joanne

____________________________________________________________
Health Insurance Deals
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Re: Still

JMasal@...
 

Got to thinkin about Thayer (who really should have been tarred and
feathered) and his email tag which is: millenniumflyer. I believe he should be
compelled to change it to 3rdmillenniumflyer. Surely he could get it done by
then.

j.


Re: Home safe in KORE

Dave Dugas
 

So,Kevin is the one I should thank........thanks Kevin.  Really it gave all of us a chance to check everything out.  Great to see everyone.  
 
Dave Dugas

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...> wrote:


From: Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Home safe in KORE
To: Q-LIST@...
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:25 AM


 



Great to hear you are back at home safely Dave. As a host, it is a thrill to have guys travel from all over to make the event. I'm actually glad that Kevin Boddicker broke the hangar door so we could visit with you a bit longer before you depart for home.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove. net
Omaha NE
N25974
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Dugas
To: Q-LIST@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:26 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Home safe in KORE

Rod and I landed at 4 pm local after a one stop flight from Findlay OH. Great flying for the most part...rain the last half hour. The landing at KORE was almost my last one ,as the winds were gusting from every direction including up and down. First try ended with a go-around, second try was intended to be another go-around but a moderate slam to the runway and chop of the throttle, and thankfully it stayed straight with no damage. Trip finished. The Revmaster performed perfectly and the Tru-Trak auto pilot got a real good workout and never complained once. Doug, thanks for a good time. I just wished I could have been there longer.

Dave Dugas



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Vortex Generator spacing templates

rick_nordgarden
 

--- In Q-LIST@..., "HAROLD DIRKS" <hardot7776@...> wrote:

Paul,

How about converting these files to jpg format so those of us without CAD software can see them?
SolidWorks offers a FREE viewer that shows you .dwg and .dxf files. Prints 'em out full-scale, too...

http://www.edrawingsviewer.com/pages/programs/download/

Rick Nordgarden
Council Bluffs IA
Dragonfly MkIIH under construction


Re: Vortex Generator spacing templates

HAROLD DIRKS
 

Paul,

How about converting these files to jpg format so those of us without CAD software can see them?

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul S<mailto:wypaul2001@...>
To: Q-LIST@...<mailto:Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:47 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Vortex Generator spacing templates


I have downloaded a couple of vortex generator templates for the GU canard. One with wide spacing and one with narrow spacing. I am using the wide spacing suggested by Keith Welsh that uses about 1/2 as many generators and it is doing the job very good.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/files/VG%20Templates/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/files/VG%20Templates/>

Paul


Still out here!!!

jnmarstall@...
 

Nancy just drove up to elizabethton TN to get me. Wx stopped me for 2 days only 50 miles from home
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


Vortex Generator spacing templates

Paul Spackman
 

I have downloaded a couple of vortex generator templates for the GU canard. One with wide spacing and one with narrow spacing. I am using the wide spacing suggested by Keith Welsh that uses about 1/2 as many generators and it is doing the job very good.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/files/VG%20Templates/

Paul


Re: Revmaster R-2100D Turbo high altitude Expereince?

Mike Dwyer <mdwyer@...>
 

Hey Bruce,
I saw a Dragonfly on the ramp in Santa Fe a few days ago. He's based there so call Sierra Aviation and see if you can get in contact with the owner. Dragonflys and Q2's are somewhat similar.
Mike Q200 N3QP
http://www.warnerair.com/q200


bin.echo wrote:

Bruce,

Is that at Gross weight? What altitude were you able to achieve on your normally aspirated R-2100? (The high compression version) What clime rate are we talking about on take off from the high altitude air ports?

Keep in mind I'm asking about an R-2100 on a Q2. It has VGs but that still might not be enough to make up for the GU canard compared to the Q200.

Having owned one, a local pilot was very dubious about the ability of the R-2100 at to cut it at 6000 MSL + But perhaps there was something wrong with eh configuration of his engine? I'm trying to collect as many data points as I can here.

-Aaron
(Investigating Q2 ownership in Albuquerque)


--- In Q-LIST@..., "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...> wrote:


My TriQ200 has been through Gallup, NM Winslow, AZ. Belin, NM and did just fine. It did better before I rebuilt the engine and lost the high compression pistons.
Bruce


ROTAX ENGINE ADAPTER PLATE???

Rich Gillen
 

Hello John:

I value your opinion greatly. Right now I have a T-Bird I with a 503(52hp)
dual carb engine and need more HP (65-75HP) for my big butt. But I'm also
looking at the Q200 airframe for the future. The only difference between
the 582UL engine and the 583 snowmobile engine is the dual plugs & ignition
and the carbs as I understand it. They just back down the RPM's for UL use.

"These German guys were adapting a Rotax gearbox to a "Our "new" engine, a
Rotax 670. It's from a '98 or '99 Ski-doo Summit X 670. It's a "HO" (High
Output), rated 128HP at 8.000 RPM."

If you was to back the RPM's down to MAX 7000 for takeoff you would still
have maybe 105+HP. All for an $850 B/$1200 E gearbox and a $650 used
snowmobile engine. A rebuild kit is cheap on ebay $249. I would use the new
Hypertec teflon coated pistons. The one guy just welded a boss on the case. I
think I would have used steel inserts for added strenght. Another option
would be to use some high strength epoxy glue and make and investment casting
out of wax for the boss he added.

Rich
Ames, IA
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
Off the net:
Rotax 670 conversion
Very informative images. We need to cooperate to help those that want to
modify these power plants. A good pipe for the 582 would be a great idea.
Electronic fuel injection is even a better idea. Both of these would be
greater. We could have some great resources if we could work out a way to build
a few of these engines and test run them to work out the bugs. I am retired
and may try and build some engines after I have proven what I have. I am
not there as yet, but getting close.

Andreas, I am curious as to why you did not just modify the case as in the
photos I just made below. I just this morning finished putting this one
together to utilize with EFI. It seems so much simpler to machine the case
than it would to make the adapter (which looks really good. The only things I
have to do to make the conversion is cut 17mm off the crankshaft, and have
a larger taper machined to the "C" box flywheel adapter in order to fit
the shaft.








Bob, Thanks for your pictures. We discussed also your solution. There was
fear that welding at the crankcase possibly produce tensions in the
material. To be sure, we decided for the adapter plate. Maybe Germans tends to
overengineered solutions ;-)

Regarding the fuel mixture preparation we are using Mikuni BN38 carbs and
the Rans rotary valve adapter plate, simply because we had them. As the
first tests shows us, this setup works fine without any changes in jetting.

Also because we had it, we are using a WarpDrive prop. But because we
don't trust the plastic 2-blade hub, we converted it to a 3-blade, using an
existent 3-blade aluminum hub. Prop diameter is 66" or 1,68m.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------

These German guys used an adapter plate.


582 (left) and 670.

============================================================================
============================

Rotax 582 UL DCDI 65HP
Blue cylinder head, model 99
* 2-stroke engine specially developed for recreational aircraft
* 2 cylinders, liquid cooled
* Rotary valve intake
* Dual capacitor discharge Ignition (DCDI)
* Dual Bing carburetors
* Mikuni pulse driven diaphragm fuel pump
* Recoil or electric starter
* Available with various exhaust system configurations
* Available with engine-mounted radiator kits
* Operates on automotive fuel with a minimum of 87 octane rating
(Canadian standards) and super 2-stroke oil of API-TC classification,
automatically provided by _oil injection_
(http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_oil_injection.htm) , or premixed with a 50:1 ratio
* Time Between Overhauls (TBO): 300 hours

Performance
Maximum power 65HP / 48KW @6500 RPM Maximum torque 55.3ft-lb / 75NM @6000
RPM Maximum RPM 6800 RPM
Combustion chambers
Bore 2.99" / 76.0mm Stroke 2.25" / 64.0mm Displacement 35.44cu.in. /
580.7cm³ Compression ratio Theoretical: 11.5
Effective: 5.75
Weight
Engine with carburetor(s) 64.4lbs / 29.2Kg Exhaust system 11.2lbs / 5.1Kg
Air filter 0.7lbs / 0.3Kg Dual radiator kit 6.0lbs / 2.7Kg No gearbox, no
electric starter 82.2lbs / 37.3Kg B gearbox,
no electric starter 92.1lbs / 41.8Kg B gearbox,
electric starter 102.9lbs / 46.7Kg C gearbox,
no electric starter 99.8lbs / 45.3Kg C gearbox,
electric starter 110.6lbs / 50.2Kg E gearbox 106.9lbs / 48.5Kg



3a. Re: ROTAX ENGINE ADAPTER PLATE???
Posted by: "Jon Finley" jon@... jonfinley2001
Date: Mon Oct 5, 2009 8:52 am ((PDT))

Hi Rich,

Is this for use a Q1?

Chris Barber (Capt. Nitro) installed a Rotax 583 in his Q1 years ago using
a
Rotax gearbox so I assume what you are asking has been done but I do not
know any details.

Chris's plane was a rocket ship. I'm working from very old memory but it
seems like it burned a ton of gas (as you would expect) and was not
reliable. He had many, many "adventures" with it. If you are building a
pattern airplane and/or your hair is usually on fire, you would probably
enjoy any of those engines. Otherwise; one of the aviation "specific"
two-strokes would be a much better choice (503, IMO a 582 is overkill on a
Q1). I would rate just about any four-stroke engine as choice that is many
orders of magnitude better than any two-stroke choice (assuming "normal"
general aviation aircraft use).

FYI: I have ~250 hours behind a Rotax 503 in a Q1 and ~250 hours behind a
1835cc VW in a Q1.

Jon Finley
N314JF - Q2 - Subaru EJ-22
http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Home safe in KORE

Doug Humble <hawkidoug@...>
 

Great to hear you are back at home safely Dave. As a host, it is a thrill to have guys travel from all over to make the event. I'm actually glad that Kevin Boddicker broke the hangar door so we could visit with you a bit longer before you depart for home.

Doug "Hawkeye" Humble
A Sign Above www.asignabove.net
Omaha NE
N25974

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Dugas
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:26 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Home safe in KORE


Rod and I landed at 4 pm local after a one stop flight from Findlay OH. Great flying for the most part...rain the last half hour. The landing at KORE was almost my last one ,as the winds were gusting from every direction including up and down. First try ended with a go-around, second try was intended to be another go-around but a moderate slam to the runway and chop of the throttle, and thankfully it stayed straight with no damage. Trip finished. The Revmaster performed perfectly and the Tru-Trak auto pilot got a real good workout and never complained once. Doug, thanks for a good time. I just wished I could have been there longer.

Dave Dugas


Finley Trip Report

jon@...
 

Hi all,

A short report of my trip to the Beatrice FOD (E98-HQG-BIE)....

The Q performed perfectly the whole flight. As has been reported already, the winds were an issue for the whole weekend. Going out, I cruised at 9,500' MSL, had about a 20 kt tailwind, and saw about 140 kts ground speed the whole way. I arrived over Beatrice at 10,500, dropped thru a broken cloud layer directly over the airport, and performed spectacular descent and fly-by. After landing, the sole person at the airport, Jay Scheeval, came out to greet me and let me know that everyone else had went to lunch.... I hope you enjoyed my arrival Jay or it was all a waste.... ;-)

The first leg of the return was not terribly rough but there was a significant wind from the south-est which kept my attention and forced me to ride right rudder to try and keep the thing straight. The second leg of the return was where the REAL excitement was. A very low ceiling caused some scud running thru the south-west section of Kansas and Oklahoma. After getting into the clear around Clayton, NM, the winds/turbulence got BAD. I throttled back the entire way across New Mexico to keep from having the wings ripped off my Q. This leg was the first time that I can remember ever getting airsick (stomach just felt bad, nothing "messy"). Arriving at home base I was greeted with some nice wind right down the runway (guessing 20 kts).

I put some photos on my website under Jon's Stuff - Trips - 2009 Field of Dreams Fly-In (watch for line wrap):
[http://www.finleyweb.net/JonsStuff/Trips/2009FieldofDreamsFlyIn/tabid/235/Default.aspx] http://www.finleyweb.net/JonsStuff/Trips/2009FieldofDreamsFlyIn/tabid/235/Default.aspx

Totally flying time was 10.1 hours and 1345 statute miles averaging 133 mph (including the fuel stops and one short flight (four tenths) at the event). The first three legs were 1002 sm which consumed 42.5 gals over 7.2 hrs; averaging 5.9 gph and 23.5 statute miles per gallon. For this trip, I had an EGT sensor hooked up and ran 1400 to 1450 degrees for most of the trip (rich of peak). This is richer than I have flown previous trips using just an oxygen sensor (hence the lower mpg).

So, once again, Q's (and Subaru's!!) work fantastically well - I love mine!!

Jon Finley
N314JF - Q2 Subaru EJ-22
[http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx] http://www.finleyweb.net/Q2Subaru.aspx


Johnson's are home

jon@...
 

Bob and Charlie left my place this morning at about 10:30am and I just received a call from Bob that they had just arrived home in Ogden.

Jon


Re: Home safe in KORE

jnmarstall@...
 

Glad you made it home safely. You will have to teach me how fly x/c and actually get there and back. It was great seeing you again
Jerry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Dugas <davedq2@...>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:26:05
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: [Q-LIST] Home safe in KORE

Rod and I landed at 4 pm local after a one stop flight from Findlay OH. Great flying for the most part...rain the last half hour. The landing at KORE was almost my last one ,as the winds were gusting from every direction including up and down. First try ended with a go-around, second try was intended to be another go-around but a moderate slam to the runway and chop of the throttle, and thankfully it stayed straight with no damage. Trip finished. The Revmaster performed perfectly and the Tru-Trak auto pilot got a real good workout and never complained once. Doug, thanks for a good time. I just wished I could have been there longer.

Dave Dugas


Home safe in KORE

Dave Dugas
 

Rod and I landed at 4 pm local after a one stop flight from Findlay OH.  Great flying for the most part...rain the last half hour.  The landing at KORE was almost my last one ,as the winds were gusting from every direction including up and down.  First try ended with a go-around, second try was intended to be another go-around but a moderate slam to the runway and chop of the throttle, and thankfully it stayed straight with no damage.  Trip finished.  The Revmaster performed perfectly and the Tru-Trak auto pilot got a real good workout and never complained once.  Doug, thanks for a good time.  I just wished I could have been there longer.
 
Dave Dugas


Not home yet

jnmarstall@...
 

Wx, I just love wx. within 60 miles of home. Wx at AVL 900 ovcst drizzle. No obstacle for you tail draggers but I,m a wimp. Don't want to scratch my plaque.
may tomorrow be cavu. Jerry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry