Date   

Re: UV damage

Richard Thomson
 

Mike Dwyer wrote;


"As for your paint theory try a different thought. No idea if this is right or not. I understand fiberglass resins outgass for their entire life. If you seal over it with a super non-porus sealant then when it outgasses it will blow the paint off. My theory is use cheap paint cause we're all going to be repainting in 15 years! My paint bubbled right off as you described. "

Well, I can't argue against your logic either Mike. But if it were steel it wouldnt rust unless air gets to it, so is it the same with Epoxy. Then that leads to other questions like does it still gas if air is excluded when it's heated and cooled ? If you heat epoxy but exclude UV will it still gas ? Or does a damp surface contribute and what about flexing ? How does that factor ? Is there any info on these ?

Thanks for your explanation for the loading, I now see what you mean. If you want a trampoline, get a Tri Q !!


Richard Thomson

TriQ200

UK.


Re: UV damage

Larry Severson
 

On 7/18/2011 11:31 AM, oneskydog@... wrote:

5mm (~.200 inches) are you lucid?
[0.1969 to be precise) Passed lab testing with top grade test equipment
( by a technical college) exposing painted epoxy part to heat, rain, and
UV equivalent to 10 years outdoors on a Florida ramp. This is with
specific paint produced by PTI ( a mil spec aircraft paint company). The
paint was applied to a specially prepared mold, and the fiberglass was
then vacuum infused to the finish in a test program. The result was an
extremely light weight simulated wing skin that demonstrated 95%
reflectivity. Work is on going to demonstrate both how thin the paint
can safely be done, and to create a usable full scale airfoil that comes
out of the mold pre painted that matches the best current paint job. We
expect to be ready by Spring 2012.


One Sky Dog
--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852


Re: UV damage

One Sky Dog
 

5mm (~.200 inches) are you lucid?

One Sky Dog

In a message dated 7/17/2011 6:51:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
larry2@... writes:

Does anyone know if there is a decent way to inspect for UV damage once
primer and finish is applied?

UV damaged fiberglass is milky. One could pick an exposed area and sand
down to the fiberglass. Not good, but better than risking flying a plane
UV damaged.

I know...there shouldn't be any damage through the paint and primer,
but...well, I think most of us still store our composite planes indoors
just in case.

Do you really know what the UV status of that hangered plane? How good
was the original paint job? Tests that I have seen show that it takes
about 5mm of UV protecting paint over the whole surface. But time of
exposure and amount of UV encountered (10 years in Florida weather)
needs to be significant with the 5mm protection.

I am working with PTI and a local technical college to establish optimum
paint requirements. PTI produces mil spec paints, and is available at
Aircraft Spruce,

--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Wing Shear Web Cut

Frontier
 

Turns out Terry called me and answered my questions.
I made the cut w/o any problems tonight.
Thanks Terry!

Joe Galletti

On Jul 14, 2011, at 1:42 PM, j.galletti@... wrote:

I have been idle on building my Q-1 for much too long, as Terry Crouch can attest to.
I have a small problem with making the cut on the main wing Shear Web. The place where the pieces of foam block ended up BEFORE hot wiring these cores is very, very close to the shear web cut line. I was going to allow the slight imperfection on the one core, which did not have the core pieces (for the one inboard core) microed & make the other core with the same "imperfection" but...when setting up the other core, which IS bonded, that cut line is right where there is micro present.
I have the core ready to cut w/hot wire cutter, but now worry that cutter will catch on and not cut the micro!
Not sure what to do now. I am tempted to just bond the second core and cut by hand with a saw, not a hot wire cutter and get the Sear Web in the right place, as it should be.
Anyone ever hot wire micro?
Any suggestions are highly appreciated!

Joe Galletti
S-L-O-W-L-Y building Q-1 in Dayton, OH

Sent from my iPhone


Re: UV damage

Mike Dwyer
 

Hi Richard,

For the standard Q's (not Tri-Q)... If I remember my calculations of 20 years ago, when a wing develops 1G of lift it is doing so with the lift distribution over the entire wing surface. If you lift a plane by only the wing tips that is basically equivalent to a distributed 2G load. If you have 2 wings and lift the plane with only one of them (the canard) then you have the equivalent of 4G on that one wing. If you bounce up and down a bit while getting in the plane (we all do) then the loaded G equivalent is probably more like 6G on the canard. Nobody use the Q as a trampolene please!



The Q200 canard I heard was good for 30G and the main wing 15G,,, tho never tested anywhere near this. The most the plane can pull in flight is about 4G, but I suppose a fast updraft could put more load on the plane?



No correctly built airplane has ever come apart in flight to my knowledge. I say it that way because one main wing broke after an incorrect repair job.



UV to my knowlege doesn't penetrate very far, kinda breaks down the first molecule it hits.



As for your paint theory try a different thought. No idea if this is right or not. I understand fiberglass resins outgass for their entire life. If you seal over it with a super non-porus sealant then when it outgasses it will blow the paint off. My theory is use cheap paint cause we're all going to be repainting in 15 years! My paint bubbled right off as you described. Darn, I got 15 years on the first paint job and now have 11 on the second. Don't tell me that I'll have to do it again in 4 more years! see: http://www.warnerair.com/q200/re1.html



Mike Q200 N3QP



________________________________

To: Q-LIST@...
From: richard@...
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 20:49:24 +0100
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: UV damage



Hi Mike.

Can you explain your statement

I calculated that the Q200 canard has the equivalent of 4G on it when
loaded to gross on the ground, plus it is supported by the wing tips. ?

It's a few years since I have played with Aero loads, but to have G do
you not need to have movement or acceleration ? So at Design gross
weight is it not still 1G loading ?

Do we know what Burt and successors originally stressed the spars to
take ( on the Long eze he said it was 17 G ) ?

Also has there been any main wing or Canard failures in flight ? I only
remember 1 problem which was elevator mount failure wasn't it ?

How much damage is caused to the spar caps when the outer layers are
not or become no longer painted ?
Can the UV penetrate the outer plies to that depth and damage the spar
? What testing has been done to prove this ?

Not a problem for you hot climate boys, but from my experience I noted
that the old style UV layer will unfortuanately absorb moisture if
there are any pinhloes in the paint layer, which softens it and then it
sheers under the outer paint layer, the paint can then be locally
stripped in sheets, yet under the remaing black the weave surface is
just like new with no damp or UV damage.
That's why I have used good quality 2 pack epoxy primer and 2 pack
polyurathne top coat to refinish, as it's specification states it is a
UV barrier and its protected from virtually everything including salt
water.

Richard Thomson

TriQ200
Getting closer every week.

UK





Re: UV damage

Richard Thomson
 

Hi Mike.

Can you explain your statement

I calculated that the Q200 canard has the equivalent of 4G on it when loaded to gross on the ground, plus it is supported by the wing tips. ?

It's a few years since I have played with Aero loads, but to have G do you not need to have movement or acceleration ? So at Design gross weight is it not still 1G loading ?

Do we know what Burt and successors originally stressed the spars to take ( on the Long eze he said it was 17 G ) ?



Also has there been any main wing or Canard failures in flight ? I only remember 1 problem which was elevator mount failure wasn't it ?

How much damage is caused to the spar caps when the outer layers are not or become no longer painted ?
Can the UV penetrate the outer plies to that depth and damage the spar ? What testing has been done to prove this ?

Not a problem for you hot climate boys, but from my experience I noted that the old style UV layer will unfortuanately absorb moisture if there are any pinhloes in the paint layer, which softens it and then it sheers under the outer paint layer, the paint can then be locally stripped in sheets, yet under the remaing black the weave surface is just like new with no damp or UV damage.
That's why I have used good quality 2 pack epoxy primer and 2 pack polyurathne top coat to refinish, as it's specification states it is a UV barrier and its protected from virtually everything including salt water.

Richard Thomson

TriQ200
Getting closer every week.

UK


Cool aviation web sites

Mike Dwyer
 

Ran across these web sites and thought you may find them interesting.



E6B Online http://www.csgnetwork.com/e6bcalc.html



Free Charts http://skyvector.com/



TFR map http://airspace.nifc.gov/



Notam Lookup https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/



Special Use Airspace http://sua.faa.gov



Weather Underground - Aviation http://www.wunderground.com/Aviation_Maps/Flight_Rules/FL100-12.html#a_topad



enjoy,

Mike Q200 N3QP


Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

Rick Hole
 

I wonder if the paper filter issue in Canada is related to water freezing in the filter.


Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...>
 

Hi Jim,
 
I use these from Aircraft Spruce p/n 05-01030 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php
They only come in 1/4 barb ends though.  So if you need larger barb ends, I've found these Scat Billet fuel filters with sinthered bronze elements p/n C15-35184A
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C15%2D35184A
Probably also available from your friendly NAPA store.
 
I had also been using paper element fram filters for years and years on my Q2, but three years ago I had to go through a complete Transport Canada inspection and failed because of the paper element filter.  The inspector explained the water retention reason to me and I had to change them out for sinthered element filters.
 
Rene

--- On Fri, 7/15/11, Jim P <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:


From: Jim P <logistics_engineering@...>
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Friday, July 15, 2011, 2:43 AM


 



Rene,

What fuel filters are you using?

Jim P

--- In Q-LIST@..., Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,
 
I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for aviation use.
 
Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters.  They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the fuel flow once water contaminated.  I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds, but never say never.
 
The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters.  I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:
 
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php
 
Rene
Q2 C-GTCA 
 
 


--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...> wrote:


From: oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM


 



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah


In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally fine.


Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

Jim Patillo
 

Rene,

What fuel filters are you using?

Jim P

--- In Q-LIST@..., Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,
 
I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for aviation use.
 
Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters.  They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the fuel flow once water contaminated.  I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds, but never say never.
 
The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters.  I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:
 
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php
 
Rene
Q2 C-GTCA 
 
 


--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...> wrote:


From: oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM


 



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah


In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally fine.


Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

One Sky Dog
 

I have poured water through an old one but I did not mix gas with the water
to see if it would separate or clog the filter. I thought straight water
test would be ok.

I am sure I do not know everything Transport Canada knows.

I know I used them for 500 hours no water no clogging.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/14/2011 1:52:22 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
britmcman@... writes:

Poor Jim! Paper filters and all. This is a pretty good point you make if
true. It is wise to follow the advise of the high hours guys.

Based on Larry B's recent advice I have been adding a few Viagra Pills to
each fill up to improve climb-out performance.

So. Shall we recommend or condemn paper element fuel filters based on this
data point?

Phil Lankford


On Jul 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a
heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for
aviation use.

Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters.
They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the
fuel flow once water contaminated. I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds,
but never say never.

The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters.
I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php

Rene
Q2 C-GTCA



--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...> wrote:

From: oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska
in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of
getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just
mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the
glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because
they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had
landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the
point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header
to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger
and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally
fine.

Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

L.J. French <LJFrench@...>
 

Because it looks nice blended with the blue dye in the fuel.
LJ

Short & simple from my mobile

On Jul 14, 2011, at 8:35 PM, "Chick Masoner" <chick@...> wrote:

Why would you us Pig Fat with red dye in you system?



Chick



From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
L.J. French
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:11 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters





I think this is all great feedback and good stuff to consider, but on the
lighter side I agree with Phil that Larry's recommendation should not only
help you get up faster, but maybe it will help clear out foreign matter in
the lines also. So I think I will so start adding some along with my Marvel
Mystery oil. Should be a good combination.

LJ

Short & simple from my mobile

On Jul 14, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Phil Lankford <britmcman@...
<mailto:britmcman%40aol.com> > wrote:

Poor Jim! Paper filters and all. This is a pretty good point you make if
true. It is wise to follow the advise of the high hours guys.

Based on Larry B's recent advice I have been adding a few Viagra Pills to
each fill up to improve climb-out performance.

So. Shall we recommend or condemn paper element fuel filters based on this
data point?

Phil Lankford


On Jul 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...
<mailto:q2robertson%40yahoo.ca> > wrote:

Hi Guys,

I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a
heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for
aviation use.

Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters.
They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the fuel
flow once water contaminated. I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds, but
never say never.

The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters.
I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php

Rene
Q2 C-GTCA



--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@... <mailto:oneskydog%40aol.com>
<oneskydog@... <mailto:oneskydog%40aol.com> > wrote:

From: oneskydog@... <mailto:oneskydog%40aol.com> <oneskydog@...
<mailto:oneskydog%40aol.com> >
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska
in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... <mailto:logistics_engineering%40msn.com>
writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just
mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the
glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because
they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the
point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header
to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger
and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally
fine.

Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links










------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links










------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

Chick Masoner <chick@...>
 

Why would you us Pig Fat with red dye in you system?



Chick



From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of
L.J. French
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:11 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters





I think this is all great feedback and good stuff to consider, but on the
lighter side I agree with Phil that Larry's recommendation should not only
help you get up faster, but maybe it will help clear out foreign matter in
the lines also. So I think I will so start adding some along with my Marvel
Mystery oil. Should be a good combination.

LJ

Short & simple from my mobile

On Jul 14, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Phil Lankford <britmcman@...
<mailto:britmcman%40aol.com> > wrote:

Poor Jim! Paper filters and all. This is a pretty good point you make if
true. It is wise to follow the advise of the high hours guys.

Based on Larry B's recent advice I have been adding a few Viagra Pills to
each fill up to improve climb-out performance.

So. Shall we recommend or condemn paper element fuel filters based on this
data point?

Phil Lankford


On Jul 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...
<mailto:q2robertson%40yahoo.ca> > wrote:

Hi Guys,

I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a
heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for
aviation use.

Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters.
They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the fuel
flow once water contaminated. I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds, but
never say never.

The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters.
I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php

Rene
Q2 C-GTCA



--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@... <mailto:oneskydog%40aol.com>
<oneskydog@... <mailto:oneskydog%40aol.com> > wrote:

From: oneskydog@... <mailto:oneskydog%40aol.com> <oneskydog@...
<mailto:oneskydog%40aol.com> >
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska
in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... <mailto:logistics_engineering%40msn.com>
writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just
mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the
glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because
they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the
point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header
to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger
and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally
fine.

Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links










------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Gram G3 Filters

Fisher Paul A. <fisherpaula@...>
 

I've been using Fram paper filters for 21 years - haven't had a problem. My filter is between the main tank and the header, so a plugged filter will keep the header from filling, but not make the engine stop... at least not in the short term!

But I think Rene's comments do warrant some testing.

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200 N17PF ~1400 hours

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of jnmarstall@...
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 18:30
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Gram G3 Filters



One yr. Worked fine
Jerry

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----
From: Jim P <logistics_engineering@...<mailto:logistics_engineering%40msn.com>>
To: Q-LIST@...<mailto:Q-LIST%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2011 22:37:43 GMT+00:00
Subject: [Q-LIST] Gram G3 Filters

Anyone using G3's for a long time? If so, can you provide some data, so we
can put this one to bed?

Regards,
Jim P


Re: Gram G3 Filters

jnmarstall@bellsouth.net <jnmarstall@...>
 

One yr. Worked fine
Jerry

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----
From: Jim P <logistics_engineering@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2011 22:37:43 GMT+00:00
Subject: [Q-LIST] Gram G3 Filters


Anyone using G3's for a long time? If so, can you provide some data, so we
can put this one to bed?

Regards,
Jim P


Gram G3 Filters

Jim Patillo
 

Anyone using G3's for a long time? If so, can you provide some data, so we can put this one to bed?

Regards,
Jim P


Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

Jim Patillo
 

Poor Phil,

At least I have a flying airplane on a regular basis!

Jim

--- In Q-LIST@..., Phil Lankford <britmcman@...> wrote:

Poor Jim! Paper filters and all. This is a pretty good point you make if true. It is wise to follow the advise of the high hours guys.

Based on Larry B's recent advice I have been adding a few Viagra Pills to each fill up to improve climb-out performance.

So. Shall we recommend or condemn paper element fuel filters based on this data point?

Phil Lankford


On Jul 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for aviation use.

Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters. They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the fuel flow once water contaminated. I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds, but never say never.

The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters. I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php

Rene
Q2 C-GTCA



--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...> wrote:

From: oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally fine.

Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

L.J. French <LJFrench@...>
 

I think this is all great feedback and good stuff to consider, but on the lighter side I agree with Phil that Larry's recommendation should not only help you get up faster, but maybe it will help clear out foreign matter in the lines also. So I think I will so start adding some along with my Marvel Mystery oil. Should be a good combination.

LJ

Short & simple from my mobile

On Jul 14, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Phil Lankford <britmcman@...> wrote:

Poor Jim! Paper filters and all. This is a pretty good point you make if true. It is wise to follow the advise of the high hours guys.

Based on Larry B's recent advice I have been adding a few Viagra Pills to each fill up to improve climb-out performance.

So. Shall we recommend or condemn paper element fuel filters based on this data point?

Phil Lankford


On Jul 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for aviation use.

Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters. They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the fuel flow once water contaminated. I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds, but never say never.

The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters. I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php

Rene
Q2 C-GTCA



--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...> wrote:

From: oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally fine.

Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

Mike Dwyer
 

Sounds like a worthy test. I'm ready to remove my old paper filter. Will do a flow test without and with water added. With all good science experiments, some others should also report results. Mike Q200 N3QP.



Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Phil Lankford
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:51 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

Poor Jim! Paper filters and all. This is a pretty good point you make if true. It is wise to follow the advise of the high hours guys.

Based on Larry B's recent advice I have been adding a few Viagra Pills to each fill up to improve climb-out performance.

So. Shall we recommend or condemn paper element fuel filters based on this data point?

Phil Lankford


On Jul 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for aviation use.

Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters. They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the fuel flow once water contaminated. I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds, but never say never.

The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters. I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php

Rene
Q2 C-GTCA



--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...> wrote:

From: oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally fine.

Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

britmcman99
 

Poor Jim! Paper filters and all. This is a pretty good point you make if true. It is wise to follow the advise of the high hours guys.

Based on Larry B's recent advice I have been adding a few Viagra Pills to each fill up to improve climb-out performance.

So. Shall we recommend or condemn paper element fuel filters based on this data point?

Phil Lankford


On Jul 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for aviation use.

Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters. They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the fuel flow once water contaminated. I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds, but never say never.

The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters. I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php

Rene
Q2 C-GTCA



--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...> wrote:

From: oneskydog@... <oneskydog@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally fine.

Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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