Date   

Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

Jim Patillo
 

Thanks Rene

--- In Q-LIST@..., Rene Robertson <q2robertson@...> wrote:

Hi Jim,
 
I use these from Aircraft Spruce p/n 05-01030 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php
They only come in 1/4 barb ends though.  So if you need larger barb ends, I've found these Scat Billet fuel filters with sinthered bronze elements p/n C15-35184A
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C15%2D35184A
Probably also available from your friendly NAPA store.
 
I had also been using paper element fram filters for years and years on my Q2, but three years ago I had to go through a complete Transport Canada inspection and failed because of the paper element filter.  The inspector explained the water retention reason to me and I had to change them out for sinthered element filters.
 
Rene

--- On Fri, 7/15/11, Jim P <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:


From: Jim P <logistics_engineering@...>
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Friday, July 15, 2011, 2:43 AM


 



Rene,

What fuel filters are you using?

Jim P

--- In Q-LIST@..., Rene Robertson <q2robertson@> wrote:

Hi Guys,
 
I don't know if the Fram G3 filter is a paper element filter, but just a heads up about paper element filters, they are illegal here in Canda for aviation use.
 
Transport Canada will not pass any aircraft with paper element filters.  They have been proven to hold any water in the fuel and then block the fuel flow once water contaminated.  I know this is unlikely in our Q-birds, but never say never.
 
The filters that are recommended are sinthered bronze element filters.  I've been using these clear sinthered element filters:
 
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fuelfilter.php
 
Rene
Q2 C-GTCA 
 
 


--- On Wed, 7/13/11, oneskydog@ <oneskydog@> wrote:


From: oneskydog@ <oneskydog@>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters
To: Q-LIST@...
Received: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 7:40 PM


 



Jim,

Glad to hear you got rid of the hot rod glass filters. The ratio is 30
square inches to 1 on filter area with the G3.

Good to see you again and you are on the ride list. I am going to Alaska in
8 days for 3 weeks so once again progress stops.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah


In a message dated 7/13/2011 5:09:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@ writes:

Good Afternoon Charlie,

I took your advise and finally bought Fram G3 fuel filters to replace my
existing 1" glass ones. They were $3.50 ea. at Walmart.

Over the years, the glass filters worked fine for me but it makes sense
that with 6 times more filter area, I have 6 times less chance of getting
them plugged up. For anyone still using glass filters, I would just mention
that even though the filter appears to be clean when viewed thru the glass,
you have to be very careful and check them on a regular basis because they
can and will plug up.

Case in point: a few years ago I was called by Tim Iverson who had landed
and was stuck with his Dragonfly in Modesto, CA. He had flown back from
Oregon and was having engine surges all the way down the coast, to the point
he was getting very nervous. We took his glass fuel filter apart (header to
carb)and found it was totally plugged (I plugged one end with my finger and
blew into the other, nothing came out, even though it looked totally fine.


Thanks again for the reminder and adding to my safety level.

Regards,

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

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Re: UV problem - the real answer

Mike Perry
 

Thanks for that correction -- Makes way better sense.

Mike

On 7/19/2011 1:19 PM, larry severson wrote:

The dry film thickness of the paint that did not allow UV to discolor
the epoxy was 5 mils (0.005 inches) thick. We need to do a more
controlled test to make sure of this number, but it looks like if you
have 5 mils of white paint over the epoxy composite you will be safe for
many years. If you put a black tint in it it is even better, and a red
tint works well also.
Bud.

So the answer is .005 inch is the answer, not 5mm. I heard mils as mm,
but I heard wrong.

--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852


Re: UV problem - the real answer

Larry Severson
 

The dry film thickness of the paint that did not allow UV to discolor the epoxy was 5 mils (0.005 inches) thick. We need to do a more controlled test to make sure of this number, but it looks like if you have 5 mils of white paint over the epoxy composite you will be safe for many years. If you put a black tint in it it is even better, and a red tint works well also.
Bud.

So the answer is .005 inch is the answer, not 5mm. I heard mils as mm, but I heard wrong.

--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852


New website

schmayhoo
 

I have always been uncomfortable regarding MOA airspace. I received a notice from the FAA and probably everyone else did too but it introduces a new website www.seeandavoid.org which, if you take a look, should be very helpful with flight planning. Jerry Brinkerhuff Q-200 trailering to the airport today to begin taxi testing.


Re: Slow Postings

Mark Tanberg
 

It's happening all over my 3 other yahoogroups as well
Mark ( who is too tall to fit in a Q) said
Maybe I should buy one anyway and stretch it,
widen it and enlarge the canopy

--- On Mon, 7/18/11, Paul S <wypaul2001@...> wrote:

From: Paul S <wypaul2001@...>
Subject: [Q-LIST] Slow Postings
To: Q-LIST@...
Date: Monday, July 18, 2011, 9:42 PM

I noticed that a reply that I posted 6 days ago(Re:Q2 brake rotors) showed up this morning. This has happen on another Yahoo site a few weeks back. Is anyone else experiencing these delays with Yahoo?

Paul


Re: Tri-Q main gear for sale?

Richard <mylittlemgb@...>
 

Patrick and the Group,

We are now starting the production of all the Tri-Q parts. Over the last month we took over the molds and other needed tooling for the Tri-Q gear from Scott Swing. We will be offering them on Quickheads.com shortly. The nose gear is on the sight now. We are making one change to the main gear in that we will be using a higher temp resin. We are doing this to help prevent heat issues. I don't believe this is the issue with this gear problem. Production of the main gear will begin this week and should be ready for shipment by the 28th of this month. Patrick I would like to speak with you off list about your gear. Please fee free to call me anytime at 937-243-7303 or drop me an email. We would real like to help you out. Also anyone else in need please feel free to call anytime.

Fast Little Airplanes
Richard Kaczmarek
2232 North State Route 559
Woodstock, OH 43084
mylittlemgb@...
937-826-1327
937-243-7303

--- In Q-LIST@..., "flyboy" <patrickrameau@...> wrote:

My poor, bent landing gear.I'm attempting to bend them back into shape under heat and pressure. There is a chance we may not succeed, in which case I'll be in need of a replacement gear. Any help directing me would be appreciated!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/photos/album/1061527050/pic/1703660373/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc


Tri-Q main gear for sale?

Patrick Rameau
 

My poor, bent landing gear.I'm attempting to bend them back into shape under heat and pressure. There is a chance we may not succeed, in which case I'll be in need of a replacement gear. Any help directing me would be appreciated!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/photos/album/1061527050/pic/1703660373/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc


UV problem

Mike Dwyer
 

I got the solution. SPF 30 sunscreen. Problem solved.Mike Q200Sent from my Windows Phone


Re: UV damage oops

Larry Severson
 

On 7/18/2011 4:03 PM, oneskydog@... wrote:

Cool Larry,

So care to elaborate on the "Tests that I have seen show that it takes
about 5mm of UV protecting paint over the whole surface." test data who,
what, where?
That figure included 4 layers of infused 6oz fiberglass. I will need to
get the actual number from Cal Poly Pomona.

--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852


Re: UV damage

Pat Panzera <panzera@...>
 

Larry, you do realize that 0.2 inches, or 0.1969 to be precise, is nearly
1/4"??? (1/5th to be exact). Take one inch and divide it into five equal
parts- that's 1/5th of an inch.
I've NEVER seen that much paint applied to anything (on purpose) including
anti-fouling paint on nuke submarines. or any gel-coat on commercial
fiberglass work.

| l l l l |



Even 1/8" is crazy thick, thicker than a lot of the glass layups on our
planes.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:03 PM, <oneskydog@...> wrote:

Cool Larry,

So care to elaborate on the "Tests that I have seen show that it takes
about 5mm of UV protecting paint over the whole surface." test data who,
what, where?

I see that you have a new gig selling paint? Now that you insinuated that
our airplanes are getting UV damage under the paint what is your agenda?
The
sky is falling and plastic airplanes that do not have PTI paint are slowly
turning to dust?

Please clarify your input on UV damage.

Regards

One Sky Dog
Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/18/2011 2:09:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
larry2@... writes:

On 7/18/2011 11:31 AM, oneskydog@... wrote:

5mm (~.200 inches) are you lucid?


[0.1969 to be precise) Passed lab testing with top grade test equipment
( by a technical college) exposing painted epoxy part to heat, rain, and
UV equivalent to 10 years outdoors on a Florida ramp. This is with
specific paint produced by PTI ( a mil spec aircraft paint company). The
paint was applied to a specially prepared mold, and the fiberglass was
then vacuum infused to the finish in a test program. The result was an
extremely light weight simulated wing skin that demonstrated 95%
reflectivity. Work is on going to demonstrate both how thin the paint
can safely be done, and to create a usable full scale airfoil that comes
out of the mold pre painted that matches the best current paint job. We
expect to be ready by Spring 2012.

--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links









------------------------------------

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http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: August Fly In LVK

One Sky Dog
 

Jim,

I have not scheduled a FAA inspection but plan to call as soon as I get
back (8-10-11) I have a couple more documents to produce and the package is
complete.

So weather permitting and if the Cessna is still running you should see
Bob and I at the Fly In

I will try and restrain myself, in fact I might order some new secret paint
if I can find a source.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson
N187CD Dragon/vair still building

In a message dated 7/18/2011 4:38:23 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
logistics_engineering@... writes:

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

P.S. Charlie you've got to simmer down now! You've simply lost all
patience in your old age with stupidity and ignorance. BTW, will you be back by
August 27-28 for our Fly In?


Re: UV damage

One Sky Dog
 

Cool Larry,

So care to elaborate on the "Tests that I have seen show that it takes
about 5mm of UV protecting paint over the whole surface." test data who,
what, where?

I see that you have a new gig selling paint? Now that you insinuated that
our airplanes are getting UV damage under the paint what is your agenda? The
sky is falling and plastic airplanes that do not have PTI paint are slowly
turning to dust?

Please clarify your input on UV damage.

Regards

One Sky Dog
Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah

In a message dated 7/18/2011 2:09:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
larry2@... writes:

On 7/18/2011 11:31 AM, oneskydog@... wrote:

5mm (~.200 inches) are you lucid?


[0.1969 to be precise) Passed lab testing with top grade test equipment
( by a technical college) exposing painted epoxy part to heat, rain, and
UV equivalent to 10 years outdoors on a Florida ramp. This is with
specific paint produced by PTI ( a mil spec aircraft paint company). The
paint was applied to a specially prepared mold, and the fiberglass was
then vacuum infused to the finish in a test program. The result was an
extremely light weight simulated wing skin that demonstrated 95%
reflectivity. Work is on going to demonstrate both how thin the paint
can safely be done, and to create a usable full scale airfoil that comes
out of the mold pre painted that matches the best current paint job. We
expect to be ready by Spring 2012.

--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Its Changed! - New Fuel Filters

Jim Patillo
 

Good point Rick, it does get one hell of a lot colder in Canada than California or Florida and a frozen fuel filter, full of water, wouldn't work so well. Most of the planes in Canada are Aluminum and or Fabric design with metal(sweating)tanks. You can ask on this list, but I don't know of anyone that's had water in their fuel except for the isolated incidence of bad gas.

As stated before; I've used the small glass filters for 1000 hours + on my Q200 and never had a problem. I also check them on a regular basis just as I will do with the paper ones. (If Phil Lankford had a plane he could use paper ones as well)!

It makes sense that with a 30:1 surface ratio, the paper filter would do a much better job.

Having said that............to each his own and continued success on your Q project with Scott! I'm looking forward to seeing it in the air.

Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200

P.S. Charlie you've got to simmer down now! You've simply lost all patience in your old age with stupidity and ignorance. BTW, will you be back by August 27-28 for our Fly In?






I think you can see from the responses it doesn't appear to be muc of a problem with the guys on this list.

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Rick" <r.hole@...> wrote:

I wonder if the paper filter issue in Canada is related to water freezing in the filter.


Re: Slow Postings

Mike Perry
 

Paul, I've had these delays in the past but never more than ~ 12 hours.
I've also noticed rare postings I made that showed on the Web-site but
never came to me. Recently Yahoo groups seem quite flaky, not sure why.

Mike Perry

On 7/18/2011 2:42 PM, Paul S wrote:

I noticed that a reply that I posted 6 days ago(Re:Q2 brake rotors)
showed up this morning. This has happen on another Yahoo site a few
weeks back. Is anyone else experiencing these delays with Yahoo?

Paul


Re: UV damage

Mike Perry
 

I agree with Charley (One Sky Dog). This is an enormous amount of paint
AND weight. Is there a decimal point missing? Otherwise, I don't think
this is practical for aircraft construction.

Mike Perry

On 7/18/2011 11:31 AM, oneskydog@... wrote:

5mm (~.200 inches) are you lucid?

One Sky Dog


In a message dated 7/17/2011 6:51:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
larry2@... <mailto:larry2%40socal.rr.com> writes:

Does anyone know if there is a decent way to inspect for UV damage once
primer and finish is applied?

UV damaged fiberglass is milky. One could pick an exposed area and sand
down to the fiberglass. Not good, but better than risking flying a plane
UV damaged.

I know...there shouldn't be any damage through the paint and primer,
but...well, I think most of us still store our composite planes indoors
just in case.

Do you really know what the UV status of that hangered plane? How good
was the original paint job? Tests that I have seen show that it takes
about 5mm of UV protecting paint over the whole surface. But time of
exposure and amount of UV encountered (10 years in Florida weather)
needs to be significant with the 5mm protection.

I am working with PTI and a local technical college to establish optimum
paint requirements. PTI produces mil spec paints, and is available at
Aircraft Spruce,

--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852

------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: UV damage

quickieaircraft
 

5mm (~.200 inches) are you lucid?
My thoughts exactly.

How many cans of paint is that, exactly? If 2 gallons is needed to just cover the primer, then....figure like 8 at the least?

Then weight =(% dry solids)*(weight of 1 gal paint)*(num of paint cans)
=0.60 *9*8=43.2 lbs vs 10.8 lbs for the minimal job.

I mean, an extra 30 lbs...

Update these to your numbers by weighing a can of paint and get the %dry solids off the MSDS.



PPL, Sonerai 2LT, 125 hrs.


Angle of Incidence

ericapplegate@rocketmail.com
 

Hi All,
I have a Tri Q and am getting dangerously close to being at the point of ataching the canard. Mine is a LS1 built flat (no anhedral) and I have been trying to pay close attention to the recent discusions about the angle of incidence. Not enough angle and then wheelborrowing down the runway doesn't sound like a game I want to play on a regular basis. Is there a generaly accepted number?

Thanks Eric Applegate


Re: UV damage

Richard Thomson
 

Mike Dwyer wrote;


"As for your paint theory try a different thought. No idea if this is right or not. I understand fiberglass resins outgass for their entire life. If you seal over it with a super non-porus sealant then when it outgasses it will blow the paint off. My theory is use cheap paint cause we're all going to be repainting in 15 years! My paint bubbled right off as you described. "

Well, I can't argue against your logic either Mike. But if it were steel it wouldnt rust unless air gets to it, so is it the same with Epoxy. Then that leads to other questions like does it still gas if air is excluded when it's heated and cooled ? If you heat epoxy but exclude UV will it still gas ? Or does a damp surface contribute and what about flexing ? How does that factor ? Is there any info on these ?

Thanks for your explanation for the loading, I now see what you mean. If you want a trampoline, get a Tri Q !!


Richard Thomson

TriQ200

UK.


Re: UV damage

Larry Severson
 

On 7/18/2011 11:31 AM, oneskydog@... wrote:

5mm (~.200 inches) are you lucid?
[0.1969 to be precise) Passed lab testing with top grade test equipment
( by a technical college) exposing painted epoxy part to heat, rain, and
UV equivalent to 10 years outdoors on a Florida ramp. This is with
specific paint produced by PTI ( a mil spec aircraft paint company). The
paint was applied to a specially prepared mold, and the fiberglass was
then vacuum infused to the finish in a test program. The result was an
extremely light weight simulated wing skin that demonstrated 95%
reflectivity. Work is on going to demonstrate both how thin the paint
can safely be done, and to create a usable full scale airfoil that comes
out of the mold pre painted that matches the best current paint job. We
expect to be ready by Spring 2012.


One Sky Dog
--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852


Re: UV damage

One Sky Dog
 

5mm (~.200 inches) are you lucid?

One Sky Dog

In a message dated 7/17/2011 6:51:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
larry2@... writes:

Does anyone know if there is a decent way to inspect for UV damage once
primer and finish is applied?

UV damaged fiberglass is milky. One could pick an exposed area and sand
down to the fiberglass. Not good, but better than risking flying a plane
UV damaged.

I know...there shouldn't be any damage through the paint and primer,
but...well, I think most of us still store our composite planes indoors
just in case.

Do you really know what the UV status of that hangered plane? How good
was the original paint job? Tests that I have seen show that it takes
about 5mm of UV protecting paint over the whole surface. But time of
exposure and amount of UV encountered (10 years in Florida weather)
needs to be significant with the 5mm protection.

I am working with PTI and a local technical college to establish optimum
paint requirements. PTI produces mil spec paints, and is available at
Aircraft Spruce,

--
Larry Severson
18242 Peters Ct
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852



------------------------------------

Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org

Yahoo! Groups Links

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