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Sudden Engine Stoppage

Sam Hoskins
 

I just posted this on the Q-200 Engine list.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:26 PM
Subject: Sudden Engine Stoppage
To: Q-200 Engine Group <Q-200_Engine_Group@...>


So as you may have seen, I had a sudden engine stoppage.  You can see the pictures here: www.samhoskins.blogspot.com

I downloaded the Dynon data and it seems to indicate the engine was turning about 650 RPM, though I really doubt it was that low. It was probably more like 800-1,000 RPM, since we were still moving pretty good when the canard broke.

I have a Catto composite prop and one blade took the entire hit, meaning it stopped NOW. There was no gentle deceleration, there was no mud on the other blade.

I immediately assumed I would tear it down and have it thoroughly inspected, by an experienced shop, for any damage.  Remember, just putting a dial indicator on the crank flange doesn't tell the whole story. Think of all the internal rotating parts that instantly stop.  The pistons, connecting rods,gears and magneto.

So, as of today, I am planning the teardown.  I would appreciate any other voices of experience out there to convince me it is not needed.

BTW - here are a few articles about sudden engine stoppage:






Thanks.

Sam
Re: Q-200 incident photos

Paul Buckley
 

Correct me if I am wrong, but if the prop is wooden you don't have to do an
engine teardown, just a runout check on the crankshaft.

Paul B.



Quoting Mike Dwyer <q2pilot@...>:

From the look of the prop I don't think I'd tear down the engine. That
looks pretty minor. If the spinner hit, I'd be concerned tho...
Sorry Sam has that work to do but the Q200 is such a nice flying airplane,
it's worth it!
Mike Q200
http://www.dwyermike.com/q200/



On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 2:23 PM, jcrain2@... <jcrain2@...> wrote:

**


Great blog Sammy! Doesn't look like you wrinkled the fuz so that should
save time. Prop looks only slightly dinked shouldn't mean tearing the
engine down but hard to tell from a pic. So all you need is a new
canard!? No problem for a "stepper"! Back to the "skunk works" 'Bat Man"!
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: [Q-LIST] Q-200 incident photos
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 10:12:48 -0500


All,

I am reviving my blog and plan on documenting my rebuild progress.

http://samhoskins.blogspot.com/

Sam






____________________________________________________________
*One Weird Trick*
Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify&#8230
<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/522cc0ccb5d1440cc2e49st04vuc>
newsmax.com<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/522cc0ccb5d1440cc2e49st04vuc>
Re: Q-200 incident photos

Mike Dwyer
 

From the look of the prop I don't think I'd tear down the engine.  That looks pretty minor.  If the spinner hit, I'd be concerned tho...
Sorry Sam has that work to do but the Q200 is such a nice flying airplane, it's worth it!
Mike Q200



On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 2:23 PM, jcrain2@... <jcrain2@...> wrote:
 

Great blog Sammy!  Doesn't look like you  wrinkled the fuz so that should save time.  Prop looks only slightly dinked shouldn't mean tearing the engine down but hard to tell from a pic.  So all you need is a new canard!?  No problem for a "stepper"!  Back to the "skunk works" 'Bat Man"!
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: [Q-LIST] Q-200 incident photos
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 10:12:48 -0500

 

All,
 
I am reviving my blog and plan on documenting my rebuild progress.
 
 
Sam

 

 



____________________________________________________________
One Weird Trick
Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify&#8230
newsmax.com
Re: Q-200 incident photos

Bruce Crain
 

Q-200 incident photos

Sam Hoskins
 

All,

I am reviving my blog and plan on documenting my rebuild progress.


Sam
FOD Video

Dave Dugas
 

Hi
Here's a link to a video that my friend and squadron mate Rod Herzig put together. Check it out between games or halftime. 


Dave D



Sent from Samsung tablet
Re: Prop

Bruce Crain
 

Re: Prop

Sam Hoskins
 

Bruce Hammer runs a  Craig Catto fixed pitch speed prop in his Glasair. He is consistently in the 250+ mph range.


On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Patrick Panzera <editor@...> wrote:
 

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:19 PM, jcrain2@... <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Hey Pat,
I had no idea.  Still couldn't they build the original adjustable prop to fit the criteria that Sammy would give them,

Yes, that would then be a custom-made fixed pitch prop. It would also be wicked expensive as a mold would have to be produced. 
 
or are all of their props generic?

No, Sensenich makes all sorts of fixed-pitch props, with various diameters and pitches.
 
 Just being able to tweak it slightly from the original would surely have some benefit.

Yes. If the blades had the proper helix for the speed intended to begin with, and had the proper blade area and planform for the rated horsepower, then some fine tuning might be nice, especially since they can't be sent back to the factory for some sanding and shaping like wood props can. 
 
Constant speed electric or governor adjustable props would come in the same category that you described then also?

Yep. BUT! A fixed pitch is only efficient at one speed. A constant speed prop is inefficient at all speeds, but potentially a better fit for the entire mission (climb, cruise, descent), and there is some real advantage to descending with power as the engine won't over-speed.

I flew wingtip to wing tip with a Lancair 360- I was in a Lancair 235. We had a wood prop, they had a constant speed prop. We were neck and neck all the way across California's Central Valley until we began the descent. We both pushed over at the same location, but we had to pull the throttle back to keep the engine out of redline, where as they left the throttle where it was and simply walked away from us. 

Pat
Re: Prop

Patrick Panzera
 

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:19 PM, jcrain2@... <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Hey Pat,
I had no idea.  Still couldn't they build the original adjustable prop to fit the criteria that Sammy would give them,

Yes, that would then be a custom-made fixed pitch prop. It would also be wicked expensive as a mold would have to be produced. 
 
or are all of their props generic?

No, Sensenich makes all sorts of fixed-pitch props, with various diameters and pitches.
 
 Just being able to tweak it slightly from the original would surely have some benefit.

Yes. If the blades had the proper helix for the speed intended to begin with, and had the proper blade area and planform for the rated horsepower, then some fine tuning might be nice, especially since they can't be sent back to the factory for some sanding and shaping like wood props can. 
 
Constant speed electric or governor adjustable props would come in the same category that you described then also?

Yep. BUT! A fixed pitch is only efficient at one speed. A constant speed prop is inefficient at all speeds, but potentially a better fit for the entire mission (climb, cruise, descent), and there is some real advantage to descending with power as the engine won't over-speed.

I flew wingtip to wing tip with a Lancair 360- I was in a Lancair 235. We had a wood prop, they had a constant speed prop. We were neck and neck all the way across California's Central Valley until we began the descent. We both pushed over at the same location, but we had to pull the throttle back to keep the engine out of redline, where as they left the throttle where it was and simply walked away from us. 

Pat
Re: Prop

Bruce Crain
 

Hey Pat,
I had no idea. Still couldn't they build the original adjustable prop to fit the criteria that Sammy would give them, or are all of their props generic? Just being able to tweak it slightly from the original would surely have some benefit.
Constant speed electric or governor adjustable props would come in the same category that you described then also?
Bruce


____________________________________________________________
One Weird Trick
Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify&#8230
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/522bd0fc7dd9b50fc4b89st04vuc
Re: Off Q-topic, but you will like

Paul Spackman
 

Looks like fun Jay. Maybe I will try to fly the Avid down to that next year. Anything scheduled for Mack Mesa this fall?

--- In Q-LIST@..., "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...> wrote:

Hi All,



I am sorry I was not able to make it to the Lobsta-fest last weekend, being on call for work I had to stay close to home, but I did make it to a “local� fly-in in Steamboat Springs. One of my fellow pilots at Mack Mesa airport took his Rans S-6 to the event and made this video. I think you all will enjoy it. Only 7 minutes of your time will be required, but it captures the joy of flying in this area. You will see me briefly eating a brat (no lobsta available) with my friend who owns the Stearman.



http://youtu.be/19RUbj55yxk



Cheers,

Jay Scheevel , Tri-Q, still building
Re: Off Q-topic, but you will like

Mark Robinson
 

Great vid. Thanks. (For some reason I found this in my "Spam" folder).
--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 9/6/13, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Subject: [Q-LIST] Off Q-topic, but you will like
To: Q-LIST@...
Date: Friday, September 6, 2013, 3:09 PM
















 









Hi All,  I am sorry I was not
able to make it to the Lobsta-fest last weekend, being on
call for work I had to stay close to home, but I did make it
to a “local” fly-in in Steamboat Springs. One of my
fellow pilots at Mack Mesa airport took his Rans S-6 to the
event and made this video. I think you all will enjoy it.
Only 7 minutes of your time will be required, but it
captures the joy of flying in this area. You will see me
briefly eating a brat (no lobsta available) with my friend
who owns the Stearman.  http://youtu.be/19RUbj55yxk  Cheers,Jay Scheevel ,
Tri-Q, still building
Off Q-topic, but you will like

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi All,

 

I am sorry I was not able to make it to the Lobsta-fest last weekend, being on call for work I had to stay close to home, but I did make it to a “local” fly-in in Steamboat Springs. One of my fellow pilots at Mack Mesa airport took his Rans S-6 to the event and made this video. I think you all will enjoy it. Only 7 minutes of your time will be required, but it captures the joy of flying in this area. You will see me briefly eating a brat (no lobsta available) with my friend who owns the Stearman.

 

http://youtu.be/19RUbj55yxk

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel , Tri-Q, still building
Re: Prop

Patrick Panzera
 

Hi Bruce,

No ground adjustable prop can ever be as efficient as a propeller custom-built for the application (engine, airframe, mission, etc.) 

Adjustable props are like vice grips on a 9/16" bolt as opposed to 9/16" box wrench.

To properly change the pitch of a propeller, one needs to change the helix of the blade, not simply rotate the entire blade.

Sensenich knows this- the new blade is just a marketing ploy. 

Pat


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 7:06 PM, jcrain2@... <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Sammy,
A friend of mine took me to the Sensenich booth at Oshkosh.  He showed me a ground adjustable, composite, hollow, propeller that used both ends of a pin to adjust the pitch.  It was super simple to adjust and was also very light looking.  It had a scimitar shape that looks great!

My friend was looking at the prop for his RV6.

They are fairly pricey but it might be something that could really work for you in the race realm.
It is a fantastic looking prop that just might get a few extra miles an hour "all out".
Bruce

____________________________________________________________
One Weird Trick
Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify&#8230
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5227e762e1747676263f6st04vuc


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Re: The Offending Puddle

Bartholomew Hanson Fisher
 

Re: Made it home

Dave Dugas
 

Andi
Great to meet you......and thank you for your comments.  This is a nice group of folks, and you fit right in. 
Dave D




Sent from Samsung tablet



-------- Original message --------
From Andi Abes <a_abes@...>
Date: 09/05/2013 10:51 AM (GMT-05:00)
To Q-LIST@...
Subject Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Made it home


 

As a newbie to the Q community, I've been following the list for a while.
Dave's FOD event (the food came in a close second to the beautiful winged bird) definitely contributed to my excitement about this crew.
However  the concern and support  (most of) the community showered on Sam was more than heartwarming ..I'd be more than lucky to have comrades like these.

Sam, can't wait to see your bird flying in person soon... (though I'm an east coaster).

From: Paul Poulsen <paul.poulsen1957@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:03 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Made it home

 
Great news matey,
Glad that everyone is home safely.
Clear skies
Paul
Re: Almost complete Tri-Q for sale

Murry Rozansky
 

Hi Adrian, as the ad says it is an almost complete aircraft with no avionics.  The engine installation was complete and it was in the avionics shop when the builder died in a Lancair crash and the work stopped.  If you have questions, give me a call.  I am home most nights 7:00 to 11:00 PM Pacific  818-702-0782  We use an answering machine to screen calls so talk for a bit and I will pick up. 
 
Murry I. Rozansky
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: 8/31/2013 3:35:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Almost complete Tri-Q for sale

 

Hi
Could you send me a list over of your spare parts please?

Sent by Adrian on his iphone

On 30 Aug 2013, at 13:03, "mm4440" <MIRCO@...> wrote:

> For Sale almost complete Tri-Q for parts:
> 160 hp Subi-Lyc EJ 22 Subaru Conversion (186 hr.) with Airflow Performance mechanical fuel injection, dual toothed belt PSRU, dual electronic ignition and P-38 like dual radiators in the tail cone. Front hinged canopy. Wheel pants. No avionics or paperwork. Get a head start on your project. $7500 OBO Located in LA area. Send me your contact info for more details.
>
>



Re: The Offending Puddle

Mike Perry
 

Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 

The runway is in seriously bad shape and there was no NOTAM.  That's an error, but it isn't pilot error.

If this happened landing on Farmer Brown's dirt track, or at some sailplane port -- OK, Pilot error.  Otherwise, I disagree.

Mike Perry

On 9/4/2013 6:48 PM, JMasal@... wrote:
 

There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.

FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.

j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Quickie List
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:
 

Re: The Offending Puddle

Sam Hoskins
 

They are replacing the entire runway next year. A day late and 15 thousand dollars short.

Sam


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 5:54 AM, Paul Poulsen <paul.poulsen1957@...> wrote:
 

The swimming pool is bad enough but you could lose a wheel in the cracks on the runway. Maybe they should consider resealing the runway.
Glad you guys are okay.
Clear skies
Paul
Re: Made it home

Andi Abes
 

As a newbie to the Q community, I've been following the list for a while.
Dave's FOD event (the food came in a close second to the beautiful winged bird) definitely contributed to my excitement about this crew.
However  the concern and support  (most of) the community showered on Sam was more than heartwarming ..I'd be more than lucky to have comrades like these.

Sam, can't wait to see your bird flying in person soon... (though I'm an east coaster).

From: Paul Poulsen
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:03 AM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Made it home

 
Great news matey,
Glad that everyone is home safely.
Clear skies
Paul
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