Date   

Re: 2014 FOD

millenniumflier@...
 

I wholeheartedly support and endorse Dave D.'s bid to host the 2014 FOD at ORE!  Dave put on a first-class event for us two weeks ago, and went the extra mile in so many ways to make it an outstanding fly-in...  and the airport and EAA clubhouse were ideal.  With the event being a little later in the year next time, i think the weather should also be a little more stable for us before the really cold stuff settles in later on.  So, my vote is in for Dave, and ORE!

Alan



-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Dugas
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Thu, Sep 12, 2013 8:53 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] 2014 FOD

 
Hi all Q folk
I would like to host the 24th FOD fly-in on the last weekend of September 2014 at ORE. The dates are September 26-28. The date is flexible based on your input.  I will welcome any suggestions. 
Dave D



Sent from Samsung tablet


2014 FOD

Dave Dugas
 

Hi all Q folk
I would like to host the 24th FOD fly-in on the last weekend of September 2014 at ORE. The dates are September 26-28. The date is flexible based on your input.  I will welcome any suggestions. 
Dave D



Sent from Samsung tablet


Re: The Offending Puddle+++

Allan Farr
 

I think people have mainly been commenting on the generalities of such accidents and who may or may not be responsible for damaged or contaminated runways. Probably would have been better to change the subject to make it clearer that it wasn't just about one specific accident. 


--- In Q-LIST@..., <q-list@...> wrote:

Agreed.

Give the man a break!

He has only just given himself one and of the kind that would probably be hauntingly depressing if it happened to anyone of us with so much time and energy invested.
Flying and flying Quickies especially will never be a risk free pursuit, but it one we accept as being manageable.
I would not be surprised if Sam didn't already accept this as a successful outcome under the circumstances.
You only have to consider what else might have happened.
A low hours/lesser mortal could have been hanging upside down surrounded by leaking fuel just as night follows day but he wasn't.

I have taken off normally in a Q-235 only to have all hell brake loose on touch down. My friend who built it had fitted 2 ply 400x4 tyres to keep the size of the wheel pants and the weight down. He had also fitted excellent long brake levers.
We got away with it but only just!!!
Six ply tyres are on it now.
A puncture during take off leaking air in flight is invisible from the cockpit.
I always land with my hand ready ON the dual brake leavers now having experienced a potential very bad hair day.
If you want a good data point for yourself let all the air out of one tyre and then try moving it.
Until you do that you have been warned. I suggest you heed the warning puddle or no puddle!





On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:18 AM, <JMasal@...> wrote:
 

Since i have been around this Q stuff longer than almost all of you guys... and I have a good memory... I can tell you that as original QUICKTALK editor the most heartening times

was when a builder/pilot had an accident then had the guts to tell us about it, usually with photos. We learned. A number of pilots
did this... look thru old Q-Talks to see. I remember at least 2 guys, now dead, who resisted listening to experience talking. As a pre-web
editor we didn't re-hash it ad infinitum. That was editing then... now we have the internet.
This is not Sam H's first rodeo. He has consistently and for long years shared his experiences with his successful and very high
time aircraft. He's already doing it again. We will benefit. From all the accounts that I know he is a good pilot, a thoughtful man
and a good teacher. He already knows the lesson he learned. Now he has a mess to clean up.

Three cheers for all you guys who IMMEDIATELY stepped up ready to help Sam get his aircraft back home. That has been another
satisfying hallmark of the QBA over the years. I'm glad we still have it.

Somebody once wrote:  AVIATION IS A HARD TEACHER... IT GIVES THE TEST FIRST AND THE LESSON AFTERWARD.

J.



-----Original Message-----
From: fisherb <fisherb@...>
To: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>; Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

Some of the people on this list are clearly missing the point of it.

The point is to share good and bad experience with the group in hope of making a safer fleet, this includes judgment calls. The biggest point to be taking has been sadly missed by all so I will say it in hope of saving others. Sam one of the best builders, flying one of the best airplanes, with almost the most time in type had a problem. What the problem is, is a scary ground issue caused by the vary wide gear " that acts as a long lever ARM"and any additional drag even a sticky brake could give the same resolt. Other planes with narrow gear, bigger rudder and slower speeds would likly be unaffected. DON'T BE ASSHOLES SHARE, LEAR IT COULD SAVE LIVES.
Bart tri Q200
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

----- Reply message -----
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 11:04 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
To: "Quickie List" <Q-LIST@...>

 
I'm starting to get pissed off. Read my first post in this thread.
Enough.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 10:00 PM, "Me" <oldjagman@...> wrote:
 
Not to cast aspersions, but from where did the takeoff roll begin?

Ok.... Pure conjecture, as I wasn't there...

Pilot had to either back taxi past it, or thru it
 or 
take off from the reciprocal, in order to experience it's power to alter the path of the aircraft.

If the latter, he should have been airborne, long before the puddle became a factor.

Either of which,  in conjecture,  points towards the elephant...

Charlie



On Sep 4, 2013, at 20:48, JMasal@... wrote:

 
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.

j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:
 
If you zoom in enough, you can see where they painted AROUND the puddle - obviously a reoccurring problem. I don't know the required criteria, but it seems like there should have at least been a notam? 

-------- Original message --------
From: dan@...
Date: 09/02/2013 9:23 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle


Puddle? Looks like a nice swimming hole. . . If it wasn't on an
active runway!

A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a link:

http://goo.gl/ww7PHY

I'm so sorry Sammy. . . but I'm glad you're
both safe. Please keep us posted on your progress home.

Thanks,
Dan
Yager
QBA Editor
www.quickheads.com

On 2013-09-01 20:23, Sam Hoskins
wrote:

> I was surprised to see that it was well established. Look for
KPJC in
> Google Earth or Maps. The black puddle is there right between
runway 17 and
> the displaced threshold.
>
> I don't know why I didn't
view it as a hazard.
>
> Sent via wireless gizmo.
>
> Sam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Original Cowley Revmaster prop

Jim Ham <jimham@...>
 

Hi,

I find that I still have the prop from my Q2 kit. It's the original
Cowley 45x56, with three laminations. Its marked "Q2 195 1181 P45 D56".
It appears to be in good shape as its been stored horizontally in a dry
location all these years.

It this prop useful to anybody? It is worth anything or should I just
route out the back and mount a clock?

Jim Ham
--
Porcine Associates LLC
244 O'Connor St.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
USA
+1(650)326-2669 fax +1(650)326-1071


Re: Files missing!

Sam Hoskins
 

Jim - I have no idea what happened to your photos.  I also see you have a lot of photo folders in the files section.

Did you thoroughly look through the photos section?  Maybe Yahoo purged jpeg photos out of the files section, though I do see a couple of jpegs still there. 

Generally speaking photos should go in the photos section.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Q-LIST/files/


Sorry.

Sam




On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Jimpatillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
 


Any Moderator?

I had a lot of pictures in folders in the old files section of Yahoo Groups. Who was responsible for transferring those files to the new format? Where are those files located now? These are non replaceable photos.

Jim Patillo

Sent from Outer Space



Files missing!

Jim Patillo
 

Any Moderator?

I had a lot of pictures in folders in the old files section of Yahoo Groups. Who was responsible for transferring those files to the new format? Where are those files located now? These are non replaceable photos.

Jim Patillo

Sent from Outer Space


Re: The Offending Puddle+++

Gary McKirdy
 

Agreed.

Give the man a break!

He has only just given himself one and of the kind that would probably be hauntingly depressing if it happened to anyone of us with so much time and energy invested.
Flying and flying Quickies especially will never be a risk free pursuit, but it one we accept as being manageable.
I would not be surprised if Sam didn't already accept this as a successful outcome under the circumstances.
You only have to consider what else might have happened.
A low hours/lesser mortal could have been hanging upside down surrounded by leaking fuel just as night follows day but he wasn't.

I have taken off normally in a Q-235 only to have all hell brake loose on touch down. My friend who built it had fitted 2 ply 400x4 tyres to keep the size of the wheel pants and the weight down. He had also fitted excellent long brake levers.
We got away with it but only just!!!
Six ply tyres are on it now.
A puncture during take off leaking air in flight is invisible from the cockpit.
I always land with my hand ready ON the dual brake leavers now having experienced a potential very bad hair day.
If you want a good data point for yourself let all the air out of one tyre and then try moving it.
Until you do that you have been warned. I suggest you heed the warning puddle or no puddle!





On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:18 AM, <JMasal@...> wrote:
 

Since i have been around this Q stuff longer than almost all of you guys... and I have a good memory... I can tell you that as original QUICKTALK editor the most heartening times

was when a builder/pilot had an accident then had the guts to tell us about it, usually with photos. We learned. A number of pilots
did this... look thru old Q-Talks to see. I remember at least 2 guys, now dead, who resisted listening to experience talking. As a pre-web
editor we didn't re-hash it ad infinitum. That was editing then... now we have the internet.
This is not Sam H's first rodeo. He has consistently and for long years shared his experiences with his successful and very high
time aircraft. He's already doing it again. We will benefit. From all the accounts that I know he is a good pilot, a thoughtful man
and a good teacher. He already knows the lesson he learned. Now he has a mess to clean up.

Three cheers for all you guys who IMMEDIATELY stepped up ready to help Sam get his aircraft back home. That has been another
satisfying hallmark of the QBA over the years. I'm glad we still have it.

Somebody once wrote:  AVIATION IS A HARD TEACHER... IT GIVES THE TEST FIRST AND THE LESSON AFTERWARD.

J.



-----Original Message-----
From: fisherb <fisherb@...>
To: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>; Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

Some of the people on this list are clearly missing the point of it.

The point is to share good and bad experience with the group in hope of making a safer fleet, this includes judgment calls. The biggest point to be taking has been sadly missed by all so I will say it in hope of saving others. Sam one of the best builders, flying one of the best airplanes, with almost the most time in type had a problem. What the problem is, is a scary ground issue caused by the vary wide gear " that acts as a long lever ARM"and any additional drag even a sticky brake could give the same resolt. Other planes with narrow gear, bigger rudder and slower speeds would likly be unaffected. DON'T BE ASSHOLES SHARE, LEAR IT COULD SAVE LIVES.
Bart tri Q200
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

----- Reply message -----
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 11:04 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
To: "Quickie List" <Q-LIST@...>

 
I'm starting to get pissed off. Read my first post in this thread.
Enough.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 10:00 PM, "Me" <oldjagman@...> wrote:
 
Not to cast aspersions, but from where did the takeoff roll begin?

Ok.... Pure conjecture, as I wasn't there...

Pilot had to either back taxi past it, or thru it
 or 
take off from the reciprocal, in order to experience it's power to alter the path of the aircraft.

If the latter, he should have been airborne, long before the puddle became a factor.

Either of which,  in conjecture,  points towards the elephant...

Charlie



On Sep 4, 2013, at 20:48, JMasal@... wrote:

 
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.

j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:
 
If you zoom in enough, you can see where they painted AROUND the puddle - obviously a reoccurring problem. I don't know the required criteria, but it seems like there should have at least been a notam? 

-------- Original message --------
From: dan@...
Date: 09/02/2013 9:23 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle


Puddle? Looks like a nice swimming hole. . . If it wasn't on an
active runway!

A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a link:

http://goo.gl/ww7PHY

I'm so sorry Sammy. . . but I'm glad you're
both safe. Please keep us posted on your progress home.

Thanks,
Dan
Yager
QBA Editor
www.quickheads.com

On 2013-09-01 20:23, Sam Hoskins
wrote:

> I was surprised to see that it was well established. Look for
KPJC in
> Google Earth or Maps. The black puddle is there right between
runway 17 and
> the displaced threshold.
>
> I don't know why I didn't
view it as a hazard.
>
> Sent via wireless gizmo.
>
> Sam







Re: The Offending Puddle+++

Bruce Crain
 


Re: The Offending Puddle

JMasal@...
 

stick a fork in it... wer're done!


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Quickie List
Sent: Tue, Sep 10, 2013 7:02 am
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
Alright, can we draw this to a close?

I see it as shared blame.  The airport in complicit in allowing a hazard to go unfixed for an extended period of time. I have responsibility for reasons already stated.

There are all various nuances to this particular incident, none of which would be productive to argue about here.  My time is better spent getting on with the rebuild.

So please - let's drop it.

Sam


On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 12:47 AM, <JMasal@...> wrote:
 
I only know what the FAA expects. (You've heard of them???) Fat chance you disagreeing with them.           j.

Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?



-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Hole <r.hole@...>
To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Mon, Sep 9, 2013 9:35 pm
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
Google Earth is great for many things, but its imagery is not real time.  Watch the imagery date at the bottom of the window and see.  You may be looking at (whatever) the way it was months or years earlier.
 
Perhaps we are looking too hard to assign fault.  The runway is what it is, like the highway that may be in perfect condition but with a blown out truck tire in your lane.  You never know when a cumulo-venison will jump across your path.  See and avoid.
 
Rick Hole
 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Mike Perry
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 10:23 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
 
 
Jim:  Do you think he should have borrowed a car from the FBO and driven the length of the runway to inspect it before takeoff?  Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?

Persistent standing water and seriously cracked runway is not the pilot's fault.  I expect public use airports to be safe for my use, in any light plane. 

In this general area, I have trouble with the attitude of our society and of the legal profession.  Somehow we are made responsible for things beyond our control.  I expect we will continue to disagree. 

Mike Perry
On 9/9/2013 5:33 PM, JMasal@... wrote:
 
Are you serioously asking this Mike Perry??? Get your head outta your hiney and talk to an FAA or NTSB inspector.
Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Perry
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
 
Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 

The runway is in seriously bad shape and there was no NOTAM.  That's an error, but it isn't pilot error.

If this happened landing on Farmer Brown's dirt track, or at some sailplane port -- OK, Pilot error.  Otherwise, I disagree.

Mike Perry
On 9/4/2013 6:48 PM, JMasal@... wrote:
 
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.
 
j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Quickie List
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
 
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:
 
 
 


Re: The Offending Puddle

Chris Rayner <chris-rayner@...>
 

Good call Sam. I was much saddened when I heard of your misfortune, but delighted you are around to talk about it. I wish you the very best for your re-build. The words that come to mind are “even better next time!”.

 

Cheers

 

Chris Rayner (G-CUIK)

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins
Sent: 10 September 2013 12:59
To: Quickie List
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

 

Alright, can we draw this to a close?

 

I see it as shared blame.  The airport in complicit in allowing a hazard to go unfixed for an extended period of time. I have responsibility for reasons already stated.

 

There are all various nuances to this particular incident, none of which would be productive to argue about here.  My time is better spent getting on with the rebuild.

 

So please - let's drop it.

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 12:47 AM, <JMasal@...> wrote:

 

I only know what the FAA expects. (You've heard of them???) Fat chance you disagreeing with them.           j.

 

Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?



-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Hole <r.hole@...>
To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Mon, Sep 9, 2013 9:35 pm
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

Google Earth is great for many things, but its imagery is not real time.  Watch the imagery date at the bottom of the window and see.  You may be looking at (whatever) the way it was months or years earlier.

 

Perhaps we are looking too hard to assign fault.  The runway is what it is, like the highway that may be in perfect condition but with a blown out truck tire in your lane.  You never know when a cumulo-venison will jump across your path.  See and avoid.

 

Rick Hole

 


From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Mike Perry
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 10:23 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

 

Jim:  Do you think he should have borrowed a car from the FBO and driven the length of the runway to inspect it before takeoff?  Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?

Persistent standing water and seriously cracked runway is not the pilot's fault.  I expect public use airports to be safe for my use, in any light plane. 

In this general area, I have trouble with the attitude of our society and of the legal profession.  Somehow we are made responsible for things beyond our control.  I expect we will continue to disagree. 

Mike Perry

On 9/9/2013 5:33 PM, JMasal@... wrote:

 

Are you serioously asking this Mike Perry??? Get your head outta your hiney and talk to an FAA or NTSB inspector.

Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Perry
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 

The runway is in seriously bad shape and there was no NOTAM.  That's an error, but it isn't pilot error.

If this happened landing on Farmer Brown's dirt track, or at some sailplane port -- OK, Pilot error.  Otherwise, I disagree.

Mike Perry

On 9/4/2013 6:48 PM, JMasal@... wrote:

 

There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.

FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.

Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.

The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.

 

j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Quickie List
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

That's kind of what the FAA said.

Sam

Sent via wireless gizmo.

On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 


Re: The Offending Puddle

Sam Hoskins
 

Alright, can we draw this to a close?

I see it as shared blame.  The airport in complicit in allowing a hazard to go unfixed for an extended period of time. I have responsibility for reasons already stated.

There are all various nuances to this particular incident, none of which would be productive to argue about here.  My time is better spent getting on with the rebuild.

So please - let's drop it.

Sam


On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 12:47 AM, <JMasal@...> wrote:
 

I only know what the FAA expects. (You've heard of them???) Fat chance you disagreeing with them.           j.


Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?



-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Hole <r.hole@...>
To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Mon, Sep 9, 2013 9:35 pm
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
Google Earth is great for many things, but its imagery is not real time.  Watch the imagery date at the bottom of the window and see.  You may be looking at (whatever) the way it was months or years earlier.
 
Perhaps we are looking too hard to assign fault.  The runway is what it is, like the highway that may be in perfect condition but with a blown out truck tire in your lane.  You never know when a cumulo-venison will jump across your path.  See and avoid.
 
Rick Hole
 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Mike Perry
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 10:23 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
 
 
Jim:  Do you think he should have borrowed a car from the FBO and driven the length of the runway to inspect it before takeoff?  Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?

Persistent standing water and seriously cracked runway is not the pilot's fault.  I expect public use airports to be safe for my use, in any light plane. 

In this general area, I have trouble with the attitude of our society and of the legal profession.  Somehow we are made responsible for things beyond our control.  I expect we will continue to disagree. 

Mike Perry
On 9/9/2013 5:33 PM, JMasal@... wrote:
 
Are you serioously asking this Mike Perry??? Get your head outta your hiney and talk to an FAA or NTSB inspector.
Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Perry
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
 
Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 

The runway is in seriously bad shape and there was no NOTAM.  That's an error, but it isn't pilot error.

If this happened landing on Farmer Brown's dirt track, or at some sailplane port -- OK, Pilot error.  Otherwise, I disagree.

Mike Perry
On 9/4/2013 6:48 PM, JMasal@... wrote:
 
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.
 
j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Quickie List
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
 
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:
 
 
 



Re: The Offending Puddle

JMasal@...
 

I only know what the FAA expects. (You've heard of them???) Fat chance you disagreeing with them.           j.
Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?



-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Hole
To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Mon, Sep 9, 2013 9:35 pm
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
Google Earth is great for many things, but its imagery is not real time.  Watch the imagery date at the bottom of the window and see.  You may be looking at (whatever) the way it was months or years earlier.
 
Perhaps we are looking too hard to assign fault.  The runway is what it is, like the highway that may be in perfect condition but with a blown out truck tire in your lane.  You never know when a cumulo-venison will jump across your path.  See and avoid.
 
Rick Hole
 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Mike Perry
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 10:23 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
 
 
Jim:  Do you think he should have borrowed a car from the FBO and driven the length of the runway to inspect it before takeoff?  Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?

Persistent standing water and seriously cracked runway is not the pilot's fault.  I expect public use airports to be safe for my use, in any light plane. 

In this general area, I have trouble with the attitude of our society and of the legal profession.  Somehow we are made responsible for things beyond our control.  I expect we will continue to disagree. 

Mike Perry
On 9/9/2013 5:33 PM, JMasal@... wrote:
 
Are you serioously asking this Mike Perry??? Get your head outta your hiney and talk to an FAA or NTSB inspector.
Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Perry
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
 
Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 

The runway is in seriously bad shape and there was no NOTAM.  That's an error, but it isn't pilot error.

If this happened landing on Farmer Brown's dirt track, or at some sailplane port -- OK, Pilot error.  Otherwise, I disagree.

Mike Perry
On 9/4/2013 6:48 PM, JMasal@... wrote:
 
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.
 
 
 


Re: The Offending Puddle+++

Sam Hoskins
 

So let's see. Well these discussions have been going on I have:

Borrowed a dial indicator to put on the crankshaft.
Made arrangements for working in  a heated hanger for the winter.
Overhauled my epoxy pump
Bought a virgin kit for spars and foam.
Made arrangements with Craig Catto for a new prop.
Talked to some very knowledgeable engine guys.
Made a mental goal (commitment) to have this thing at Oshkosh next year, my 23rd.

Sam

Sent via wireless gizmo.

On Sep 9, 2013 10:21 PM, <JMasal@...> wrote:
 

Since i have been around this Q stuff longer than almost all of you guys... and I have a good memory... I can tell you that as original QUICKTALK editor the most heartening times

was when a builder/pilot had an accident then had the guts to tell us about it, usually with photos. We learned. A number of pilots
did this... look thru old Q-Talks to see. I remember at least 2 guys, now dead, who resisted listening to experience talking. As a pre-web
editor we didn't re-hash it ad infinitum. That was editing then... now we have the internet.
This is not Sam H's first rodeo. He has consistently and for long years shared his experiences with his successful and very high
time aircraft. He's already doing it again. We will benefit. From all the accounts that I know he is a good pilot, a thoughtful man
and a good teacher. He already knows the lesson he learned. Now he has a mess to clean up.

Three cheers for all you guys who IMMEDIATELY stepped up ready to help Sam get his aircraft back home. That has been another
satisfying hallmark of the QBA over the years. I'm glad we still have it.

Somebody once wrote:  AVIATION IS A HARD TEACHER... IT GIVES THE TEST FIRST AND THE LESSON AFTERWARD.

J.



-----Original Message-----
From: fisherb <fisherb@...>
To: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>; Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

Some of the people on this list are clearly missing the point of it.

The point is to share good and bad experience with the group in hope of making a safer fleet, this includes judgment calls. The biggest point to be taking has been sadly missed by all so I will say it in hope of saving others. Sam one of the best builders, flying one of the best airplanes, with almost the most time in type had a problem. What the problem is, is a scary ground issue caused by the vary wide gear " that acts as a long lever ARM"and any additional drag even a sticky brake could give the same resolt. Other planes with narrow gear, bigger rudder and slower speeds would likly be unaffected. DON'T BE ASSHOLES SHARE, LEAR IT COULD SAVE LIVES.
Bart tri Q200
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

----- Reply message -----
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 11:04 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
To: "Quickie List" <Q-LIST@...>

 
I'm starting to get pissed off. Read my first post in this thread.
Enough.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 10:00 PM, "Me" <oldjagman@...> wrote:
 
Not to cast aspersions, but from where did the takeoff roll begin?

Ok.... Pure conjecture, as I wasn't there...

Pilot had to either back taxi past it, or thru it
 or 
take off from the reciprocal, in order to experience it's power to alter the path of the aircraft.

If the latter, he should have been airborne, long before the puddle became a factor.

Either of which,  in conjecture,  points towards the elephant...

Charlie



On Sep 4, 2013, at 20:48, JMasal@... wrote:

 
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.

j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:
 
If you zoom in enough, you can see where they painted AROUND the puddle - obviously a reoccurring problem. I don't know the required criteria, but it seems like there should have at least been a notam? 

-------- Original message --------
From: dan@...
Date: 09/02/2013 9:23 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle


Puddle? Looks like a nice swimming hole. . . If it wasn't on an
active runway!

A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a link:

http://goo.gl/ww7PHY

I'm so sorry Sammy. . . but I'm glad you're
both safe. Please keep us posted on your progress home.

Thanks,
Dan
Yager
QBA Editor
www.quickheads.com

On 2013-09-01 20:23, Sam Hoskins
wrote:

> I was surprised to see that it was well established. Look for
KPJC in
> Google Earth or Maps. The black puddle is there right between
runway 17 and
> the displaced threshold.
>
> I don't know why I didn't
view it as a hazard.
>
> Sent via wireless gizmo.
>
> Sam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Re: The Offending Puddle+++

JMasal@...
 

Since i have been around this Q stuff longer than almost all of you guys... and I have a good memory... I can tell you that as original QUICKTALK editor the most heartening times
was when a builder/pilot had an accident then had the guts to tell us about it, usually with photos. We learned. A number of pilots
did this... look thru old Q-Talks to see. I remember at least 2 guys, now dead, who resisted listening to experience talking. As a pre-web
editor we didn't re-hash it ad infinitum. That was editing then... now we have the internet.
This is not Sam H's first rodeo. He has consistently and for long years shared his experiences with his successful and very high
time aircraft. He's already doing it again. We will benefit. From all the accounts that I know he is a good pilot, a thoughtful man
and a good teacher. He already knows the lesson he learned. Now he has a mess to clean up.

Three cheers for all you guys who IMMEDIATELY stepped up ready to help Sam get his aircraft back home. That has been another
satisfying hallmark of the QBA over the years. I'm glad we still have it.

Somebody once wrote:  AVIATION IS A HARD TEACHER... IT GIVES THE TEST FIRST AND THE LESSON AFTERWARD.

J.



-----Original Message-----
From: fisherb
To: Sam Hoskins ; Quickie List
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

Some of the people on this list are clearly missing the point of it.

The point is to share good and bad experience with the group in hope of making a safer fleet, this includes judgment calls. The biggest point to be taking has been sadly missed by all so I will say it in hope of saving others. Sam one of the best builders, flying one of the best airplanes, with almost the most time in type had a problem. What the problem is, is a scary ground issue caused by the vary wide gear " that acts as a long lever ARM"and any additional drag even a sticky brake could give the same resolt. Other planes with narrow gear, bigger rudder and slower speeds would likly be unaffected. DON'T BE ASSHOLES SHARE, LEAR IT COULD SAVE LIVES.
Bart tri Q200
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

----- Reply message -----
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 11:04 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
To: "Quickie List" <Q-LIST@...>

 
I'm starting to get pissed off. Read my first post in this thread.
Enough.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 10:00 PM, "Me" <oldjagman@...> wrote:
 
Not to cast aspersions, but from where did the takeoff roll begin?

Ok.... Pure conjecture, as I wasn't there...

Pilot had to either back taxi past it, or thru it
 or 
take off from the reciprocal, in order to experience it's power to alter the path of the aircraft.

If the latter, he should have been airborne, long before the puddle became a factor.

Either of which,  in conjecture,  points towards the elephant...

Charlie



On Sep 4, 2013, at 20:48, JMasal@... wrote:

 
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.

j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:
 
If you zoom in enough, you can see where they painted AROUND the puddle - obviously a reoccurring problem. I don't know the required criteria, but it seems like there should have at least been a notam? 

-------- Original message --------
From: dan@...
Date: 09/02/2013 9:23 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle


Puddle? Looks like a nice swimming hole. . . If it wasn't on an
active runway!

A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a link:

http://goo.gl/ww7PHY

I'm so sorry Sammy. . . but I'm glad you're
both safe. Please keep us posted on your progress home.

Thanks,
Dan
Yager
QBA Editor
www.quickheads.com

On 2013-09-01 20:23, Sam Hoskins
wrote:

> I was surprised to see that it was well established. Look for
KPJC in
> Google Earth or Maps. The black puddle is there right between
runway 17 and
> the displaced threshold.
>
> I don't know why I didn't
view it as a hazard.
>
> Sent via wireless gizmo.
>
> Sam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: FOD Video

Bruce Crain
 


Re: The Offending Puddle

Rick Hole
 

Google Earth is great for many things, but its imagery is not real time.  Watch the imagery date at the bottom of the window and see.  You may be looking at (whatever) the way it was months or years earlier.

 

Perhaps we are looking too hard to assign fault.  The runway is what it is, like the highway that may be in perfect condition but with a blown out truck tire in your lane.  You never know when a cumulo-venison will jump across your path.  See and avoid.

 

Rick Hole

 


From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...] On Behalf Of Mike Perry
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 10:23 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

 

Jim:  Do you think he should have borrowed a car from the FBO and driven the length of the runway to inspect it before takeoff?  Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?

Persistent standing water and seriously cracked runway is not the pilot's fault.  I expect public use airports to be safe for my use, in any light plane. 

In this general area, I have trouble with the attitude of our society and of the legal profession.  Somehow we are made responsible for things beyond our control.  I expect we will continue to disagree. 

Mike Perry

On 9/9/2013 5:33 PM, JMasal@... wrote:

 

Are you serioously asking this Mike Perry??? Get your head outta your hiney and talk to an FAA or NTSB inspector.

Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Perry
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 

The runway is in seriously bad shape and there was no NOTAM.  That's an error, but it isn't pilot error.

If this happened landing on Farmer Brown's dirt track, or at some sailplane port -- OK, Pilot error.  Otherwise, I disagree.

Mike Perry

On 9/4/2013 6:48 PM, JMasal@... wrote:

 

There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.

FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.

Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.

The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.

 

j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)

-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Quickie List
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 

That's kind of what the FAA said.

Sam

Sent via wireless gizmo.

On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:

 

 

 


Re: The Offending Puddle

Mike Perry
 

Jim:  Do you think he should have borrowed a car from the FBO and driven the length of the runway to inspect it before takeoff?  Are we supposed to inspect every airport on Google earth before we take off?

Persistent standing water and seriously cracked runway is not the pilot's fault.  I expect public use airports to be safe for my use, in any light plane. 

In this general area, I have trouble with the attitude of our society and of the legal profession.  Somehow we are made responsible for things beyond our control.  I expect we will continue to disagree. 

Mike Perry

On 9/9/2013 5:33 PM, JMasal@... wrote:
 

Are you serioously asking this Mike Perry??? Get your head outta your hiney and talk to an FAA or NTSB inspector.

Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Perry
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it.  If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know?  Once we land, what are we supposed to do? 

The runway is in seriously bad shape and there was no NOTAM.  That's an error, but it isn't pilot error.

If this happened landing on Farmer Brown's dirt track, or at some sailplane port -- OK, Pilot error.  Otherwise, I disagree.

Mike Perry

On 9/4/2013 6:48 PM, JMasal@... wrote:
 
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.

j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins
To: Quickie List
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle

 
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:
 



Re: Sudden Engine Stoppage

Bruce Crain
 


Re: The Offending Puddle

Paul Buckley
 

Now now boys!

It should have been notam'd as a hazard, but as Sam taxied past it and saw it,
he should have recognised it as such, regardless.
He has actually admitted that he does not know why he didn't, thereby
acknowledging that he was at fault in not doing so.

And that is what accidents are all about.
We have to be vigilant at all times, regardless of external pressures, and that
is much easier said than done.
Enough said?

Paul B.

Quoting JMasal@...:

Are you serioously asking this Mike Perry??? Get your head outta your hiney and talk to an FAA or NTSB inspector.

Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it. If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know? Once we land, what are we supposed to do?




-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Perry <dmperry1012@...>
To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle






Excuse me Jim, but I don't get it. If it's not in a NOTAM how are we supposed to know? Once we land, what are we supposed to do?

The runway is in seriously bad shape and there was no NOTAM. That's an error, but it isn't pilot error.

If this happened landing on Farmer Brown's dirt track, or at some sailplane port -- OK, Pilot error. Otherwise, I disagree.

Mike Perry


On 9/4/2013 6:48 PM, JMasal@... wrote:




There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.

FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.

Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.

The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.




j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)



-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle







That's kind of what the FAA said.

Sam

Sent via wireless gizmo.

On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" <john.hartley1@...> wrote:






















Re: Roys Q1

JMasal@...
 

Weeell... if you had a frigid wife... maybe!
Loved it! But better than sex? "I don't think so Tim"!Bruce



-----Original Message-----
From: jcrain2
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Fri, Jul 12, 2013 8:21 am
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Roys Q1

 
Loved it! But better than sex? "I don't think so Tim"!Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Mike Dwyer <q2pilot@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Roys Q1
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:51:35 -0400

Hey,
Check out the experimenter magazine online.
It has a nice article on Roys Quickie.
Nice job Roy!
Mike Q200

http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=45171154&msgid=212344&act=AAZU&c=1170417&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fexperimenter.epubxp.com%2Fi%2F142883

or click here?<http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=45171154&msgid=212344&act=AAZU&c=1170417&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fexperimenter.epubxp.com%2Fi%2F142883>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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