Date   

Re: Flight Report

Calvin Thorne
 

Kevin and Paul,

I really enjoyed reading of your recent trip.  You fellows are what aircraft building and EAA are all about.  Taking the time to offer flight time to Jon, another builder is most commendable, cheers to you guys.  I look forward to read of more flights and builder assistance.  I'm still rebuilding with about two more months before flying again so thanks for the flying stories.

 

Calvin Thorne
Cochrane Alberta
Q2 (Revmaster) C-GMBK
VE6CXX track CGMBK at (
www.aprs.fi)
Aircraft building web page:
http://users.xplornet.com/~vision/44/tailfeathers.html



---In Q-LIST@..., <q-list@...> wrote:

Listers,
We had a great flight today. Who is we?
Paul Fisher and I went from DEH to TOB, only about 75 miles. The morning was great when we awoke, but soon there was ground fog. Very spotty, but fog none the less. Got a great breakfast consisting of a coffee and a roll at the local gas station. Off to the airport. The fog had lifted there, but to the west there was a layer that stretched for about 15 miles. It was very cool to fly over. Most of the way to TOB there was fog to the north of us, but at lease 20 miles away. At 2500' the air was smooth, so we stayed there for the ride up.

When we arrived we were greeted by Jon Swenson and Phil Christiansen. Phil has his plane in a hanger there, and is working on getting it in the air. Jon was needing some flying time before his first flight. Jon and I jumped in my Q and headed out. We did a simulated first flight. Took off on 16 with a 15MPH nose wind.
Climbed to 3000' to make slow turns, climbs, descents. all the usual. Climbed up to 4000' and did some pitch bucks, which were interesting, as I did not advance the power all the way, and we got into a second and third pitch buck. A good lesson, as I was not expecting the last two, so it was real world.
Jon flew for about 45 min just making mild maneuvers. Then back to the pattern for landing. It was so rough at pattern alt, that I decided not to do touch and go's, and landed. We will pick a smooth day for pattern work.
Went to Phil's hanger upon landing, and looked over his project. He is coming along, but slowly. We lit a fire under his ass, and headed for the planes.
While on the walk back to the apron, another DF builder came swarming in (get it)? in his van. He has a new project,to him, and is the forth owner. I did not get his name, and apologize for that, but the was enthusiastic.
Got back in the planes and headed for home. I to DEH and Paul to DVN, but we flew together until I had to let down. At 5500' it was spectacular! Just a great day to be alive and fly.
I am grateful for all the help I received while I was building and preparing to fly. I can only hope that my small contribution to Jon's skills are helpful to him.

Keep building, it only gets better.



Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B 309 hrs
Luana, IA.


Barnstormers: QUICKIE EXPERIMENTAL . $3,500 . FOR SALE

John Loram <johnl@...>
 

QUICKIE EXPERIMENTAL • $3,500 • FOR SALEQuickie eperimental aircraft. It has a 447 rotax engine, comes with all orginal paperwork, unknown hours, but appears to be in good condition, It has flown before but needs a little work before flying again. If you have any questions call me at 3256603334 • Contact Ken W. Roark, Owner - located Cisco, TX USA • Telephone: 325-660-3334 . 254-442-1277 . • Fax: 254-442-1336 • Posted September 23, 2013

 

-john-


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Jason Nemake <fg13fg@...>
 

Sorry again, David.
I thought I did go back to my original statement, but it was one after it, I believe.
Jason Nemake  (idiot-maybe)

From: "David@..."
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:39 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] RE: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
 
Jason,
 
You need to go back to your original message and "reply" to it with your disclaimer, so that the next guy to read this thread will see it immediately instead of having to scroll through 27 other messages before he sees is.
 
I'll go back to lurking (and cringing) as soon as this thread goes to the Q-PERFORMANCE list where it belongs.
 
Sam, OMG, if you don't call John Roncz personally before you pursue any of these so-called "improvements," Jimmeh will not forgive you whilst we all say our "shoulda known betters"....
 
 
Sign me "lurker"
--- In q-list@..., wrote:
Hey guys,
Sorry for the lack of an intelligent remedy.  After reading my response again, I can't believe I even came up with that rediculousness, must have been the lack of sleep or this cold I have.  I won't say what industry I'm in either, it would scare too many.  Now that I have broadcasted myself as an idiot, maybe my future responses can be more educated so I can begin to save face.
Disregard my prior statement.
Thank you, Jason Nemake  (not an idiot)
 

From: Jason Nemake
To: "Q-LIST@..."
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
 
Guys,
Are the elevator control surfaces statically balanced on the LS airfoil, like they are on the GU airfoil?  If so, then I would guess that if you unbalanced the control surface and started increasing the cg of the control surface aft, to try and cancel the lifting effect caused by the LS cuspt then heavy springs or sparrow strainers might not be needed.  One could possibly go as far as weighting the trailing edge.  The result would be a drooped elevator on the ground until reaching flying speeds, and a positive effect on the stick at low speeds.  Maybe even a combination of springs and aft weight.  There of coarse would be G effects to this idea.  Some things to ponder..
Jason Nemake

From: "jcrain2@..." To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
 
Sammy,
Didn't  Tom Moore and Bob Malecek have an adjustable flat piece of aluminum or stainless in place of the upside down airfoil?  I think it had a slight up kicker at the back though.  Call them to see what their ideas were.  It might be a bit less drag perhaps X 2.
Bruce  ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Sam Hoskins To: Quickie List Subject: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:14:44 -0500
 
The Sparrow Strainers are draggy and slow our planes down. �There must be an alternative. �Every time a speed specialist looks at the the sparrow strainers they go "WTF"?
 
So, let's start at the beginning. �Why are there in the first place?
 
As I understand it, they are an aerodynamic trim designed to counteract the high pressure on the bottom of the canard elevator. �Air wants to push the TE of the elevator up, causing the plane to dive, so the sparrow strainers help by pushing it back down.
 
Is this logic correct?
 
So, what would be a drag-free alternative? �Well, I suppose one could increase the spring tension already used for the control stick. �Why didn't QAC do something like that? �Maybe it would increase the stick forces. �Just guessing but when they first flew flew the new �LS-1 airfoil, they probably found they needed an extraordinary amount of nose up trim. �Followed by going with the cheapest fix - add sparrow strainers.
 
Another issue with using internal trim, is you are applying a constant torque to the joint there the elevator bellcrank slips into the elevator torque tube. �Maybe it's not a big deal, bit it's there.
 
This is all supposition. �Is anyone privy to the real story?
 
So, all of you aerodynamic tinkerers, what could be a viable way to eliminate the sparrow strainers?
 
Thanks for reading.
 
Sam
 
____________________________________________________________30-second trick for a flat belly
This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning hormone
TheFatBurningHormone.com


Re: Flight Report

Jon Swenson
 


Kevin,Paul and Phil,
I can't tell you how much I appreciate the stick time.  Each time I have flown a Q I feel like it fits me well.  I won't go so far as to say i am confident in my ability to fly one but I will say that I'm not terrified.  It was a great day for flying thanks to all.
--
Jon Swenson


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

David J. Gall
 

Jason,

 

You need to go back to your original message and "reply" to it with your disclaimer, so that the next guy to read this thread will see it immediately instead of having to scroll through 27 other messages before he sees is.

 

I'll go back to lurking (and cringing) as soon as this thread goes to the Q-PERFORMANCE list where it belongs.

 

Sam, OMG, if you don't call John Roncz personally before you pursue any of these so-called "improvements," Jimmeh will not forgive you whilst we all say our "shoulda known betters"....

 

 

Sign me "lurker"


--- In q-list@..., <fg13fg@...> wrote:

Hey guys,
Sorry for the lack of an intelligent remedy.  After reading my response again, I can't believe I even came up with that rediculousness, must have been the lack of sleep or this cold I have.  I won't say what industry I'm in either, it would scare too many.  Now that I have broadcasted myself as an idiot, maybe my future responses can be more educated so I can begin to save face.
Disregard my prior statement.
Thank you, Jason Nemake  (not an idiot)
 

From: Jason Nemake <fg13fg@...>
To: "Q-LIST@..." <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
 
Guys,
Are the elevator control surfaces statically balanced on the LS airfoil, like they are on the GU airfoil?  If so, then I would guess that if you unbalanced the control surface and started increasing the cg of the control surface aft, to try and cancel the lifting effect caused by the LS cuspt then heavy springs or sparrow strainers might not be needed.  One could possibly go as far as weighting the trailing edge.  The result would be a drooped elevator on the ground until reaching flying speeds, and a positive effect on the stick at low speeds.  Maybe even a combination of springs and aft weight.  There of coarse would be G effects to this idea.  Some things to ponder..
Jason Nemake

From: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
 
Sammy,
Didn't  Tom Moore and Bob Malecek have an adjustable flat piece of aluminum or stainless in place of the upside down airfoil?  I think it had a slight up kicker at the back though.  Call them to see what their ideas were.  It might be a bit less drag perhaps X 2.
Bruce  ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...> Subject: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:14:44 -0500
 
The Sparrow Strainers are draggy and slow our planes down. �There must be an alternative. �Every time a speed specialist looks at the the sparrow strainers they go "WTF"?
 
So, let's start at the beginning. �Why are there in the first place?
 
As I understand it, they are an aerodynamic trim designed to counteract the high pressure on the bottom of the canard elevator. �Air wants to push the TE of the elevator up, causing the plane to dive, so the sparrow strainers help by pushing it back down.
 
Is this logic correct?
 
So, what would be a drag-free alternative? �Well, I suppose one could increase the spring tension already used for the control stick. �Why didn't QAC do something like that? �Maybe it would increase the stick forces. �Just guessing but when they first flew flew the new �LS-1 airfoil, they probably found they needed an extraordinary amount of nose up trim. �Followed by going with the cheapest fix - add sparrow strainers.
 
Another issue with using internal trim, is you are applying a constant torque to the joint there the elevator bellcrank slips into the elevator torque tube. �Maybe it's not a big deal, bit it's there.
 
This is all supposition. �Is anyone privy to the real story?
 
So, all of you aerodynamic tinkerers, what could be a viable way to eliminate the sparrow strainers?
 
Thanks for reading.
 
Sam
 
____________________________________________________________30-second trick for a flat belly
This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning hormone
TheFatBurningHormone.com


Re: Flight Report

Phil Christiansen <rxforfun51@...>
 

Kevin, Paul & Jon,

Thanks for stopping in today. It's always great to see you guys and your beautiful birds!  The new Dragonfly builder you met is Tom Hughes.  I told Tom to stop in to the airport today after I found out Kevin, Paul and Jon were stopping in for a visit. Tom lives here in Rochester too.  I've been trying to help him out as best I can as he too is trying to convert his taildragger Dragonfly into a tri-gear.  He was excited to see your planes and meet a couple more tandem wing flyers.  He promised he'd try and make it to the next Spring Fling as well.

Thanks for keeping me motivated guys!  It seems like my journey has been of the two steps forward and one step back version.  Which is exactly what you noted today when I tried to install my ailerons.  Got a stuck hinge bearing and found out I'll have to redo the aileron attach points as the previous owner drilled an extra set of holes right next to the ones that bolt up the levers for the control rods. Sheez, it's always something!  Glad to hear you all made it home safe and sound.

Best Regards,

Phil Chrisitansen



From: Kevin Boddicker
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:44 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Flight Report

 
Listers,
We had a great flight today. Who is we?
Paul Fisher and I went from DEH to TOB, only about 75 miles. The morning was great when we awoke, but soon there was ground fog. Very spotty, but fog none the less. Got a great breakfast consisting of a coffee and a roll at the local gas station. Off to the airport. The fog had lifted there, but to the west there was a layer that stretched for about 15 miles. It was very cool to fly over. Most of the way to TOB there was fog to the north of us, but at lease 20 miles away. At 2500' the air was smooth, so we stayed there for the ride up.

When we arrived we were greeted by Jon Swenson and Phil Christiansen. Phil has his plane in a hanger there, and is working on getting it in the air. Jon was needing some flying time before his first flight. Jon and I jumped in my Q and headed out. We did a simulated first flight. Took off on 16 with a 15MPH nose wind.
Climbed to 3000' to make slow turns, climbs, descents. all the usual. Climbed up to 4000' and did some pitch bucks, which were interesting, as I did not advance the power all the way, and we got into a second and third pitch buck. A good lesson, as I was not expecting the last two, so it was real world.
Jon flew for about 45 min just making mild maneuvers. Then back to the pattern for landing. It was so rough at pattern alt, that I decided not to do touch and go's, and landed. We will pick a smooth day for pattern work.
Went to Phil's hanger upon landing, and looked over his project. He is coming along, but slowly. We lit a fire under his ass, and headed for the planes.
While on the walk back to the apron, another DF builder came swarming in (get it)? in his van. He has a new project,to him, and is the forth owner. I did not get his name, and apologize for that, but the was enthusiastic.
Got back in the planes and headed for home. I to DEH and Paul to DVN, but we flew together until I had to let down. At 5500' it was spectacular! Just a great day to be alive and fly.
I am grateful for all the help I received while I was building and preparing to fly. I can only hope that my small contribution to Jon's skills are helpful to him.

Keep building, it only gets better.

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B 309 hrs
Luana, IA.




Re: Flight Report

Fisher Paul A. <fisherpaula@...>
 

My track is here: http://aprs.fi/n17pf. If you extend the time range you should see the whole trip. 

The detour around Dyersville was to find the baseball diamond in the corn field they built for the movie Field of Dreams. I found it - not too much to see at altitude, but at least I finally found it!

Beautiful weather!  Had a great time!

- Paul

Sent from mobile...

On Sep 22, 2013, at 15:44, "Kevin Boddicker" <trumanst@...> wrote:

 

Listers,
We had a great flight today. Who is we?
Paul Fisher and I went from DEH to TOB, only about 75 miles. The morning was great when we awoke, but soon there was ground fog. Very spotty, but fog none the less. Got a great breakfast consisting of a coffee and a roll at the local gas station. Off to the airport. The fog had lifted there, but to the west there was a layer that stretched for about 15 miles. It was very cool to fly over. Most of the way to TOB there was fog to the north of us, but at lease 20 miles away. At 2500' the air was smooth, so we stayed there for the ride up.

When we arrived we were greeted by Jon Swenson and Phil Christiansen. Phil has his plane in a hanger there, and is working on getting it in the air. Jon was needing some flying time before his first flight. Jon and I jumped in my Q and headed out. We did a simulated first flight. Took off on 16 with a 15MPH nose wind.
Climbed to 3000' to make slow turns, climbs, descents. all the usual. Climbed up to 4000' and did some pitch bucks, which were interesting, as I did not advance the power all the way, and we got into a second and third pitch buck. A good lesson, as I was not expecting the last two, so it was real world.
Jon flew for about 45 min just making mild maneuvers. Then back to the pattern for landing. It was so rough at pattern alt, that I decided not to do touch and go's, and landed. We will pick a smooth day for pattern work.
Went to Phil's hanger upon landing, and looked over his project. He is coming along, but slowly. We lit a fire under his ass, and headed for the planes.
While on the walk back to the apron, another DF builder came swarming in (get it)? in his van. He has a new project,to him, and is the forth owner. I did not get his name, and apologize for that, but the was enthusiastic.
Got back in the planes and headed for home. I to DEH and Paul to DVN, but we flew together until I had to let down. At 5500' it was spectacular! Just a great day to be alive and fly.
I am grateful for all the help I received while I was building and preparing to fly. I can only hope that my small contribution to Jon's skills are helpful to him.

Keep building, it only gets better.

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B 309 hrs
Luana, IA.


Flight Report

Kevin Boddicker
 

Listers,
We had a great flight today. Who is we?
Paul Fisher and I went from DEH to TOB, only about 75 miles. The morning was great when we awoke, but soon there was ground fog. Very spotty, but fog none the less. Got a great breakfast consisting of a coffee and a roll at the local gas station. Off to the airport. The fog had lifted there, but to the west there was a layer that stretched for about 15 miles. It was very cool to fly over. Most of the way to TOB there was fog to the north of us, but at lease 20 miles away. At 2500' the air was smooth, so we stayed there for the ride up.

When we arrived we were greeted by Jon Swenson and Phil Christiansen. Phil has his plane in a hanger there, and is working on getting it in the air. Jon was needing some flying time before his first flight. Jon and I jumped in my Q and headed out. We did a simulated first flight. Took off on 16 with a 15MPH nose wind.
Climbed to 3000' to make slow turns, climbs, descents. all the usual. Climbed up to 4000' and did some pitch bucks, which were interesting, as I did not advance the power all the way, and we got into a second and third pitch buck. A good lesson, as I was not expecting the last two, so it was real world.
Jon flew for about 45 min just making mild maneuvers. Then back to the pattern for landing. It was so rough at pattern alt, that I decided not to do touch and go's, and landed. We will pick a smooth day for pattern work.
Went to Phil's hanger upon landing, and looked over his project. He is coming along, but slowly. We lit a fire under his ass, and headed for the planes.
While on the walk back to the apron, another DF builder came swarming in (get it)? in his van. He has a new project,to him, and is the forth owner. I did not get his name, and apologize for that, but the was enthusiastic.
Got back in the planes and headed for home. I to DEH and Paul to DVN, but we flew together until I had to let down. At 5500' it was spectacular! Just a great day to be alive and fly.
I am grateful for all the help I received while I was building and preparing to fly. I can only hope that my small contribution to Jon's skills are helpful to him.

Keep building, it only gets better.



Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B 309 hrs
Luana, IA.


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Paul Buckley
 


Heh heh, ' not-an-idiot' Jason
 
I guess that the maxim is 'engage brain before tapping the keys'
 
Prior statement disregarded ............... :-)
 
 
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

 

Hey guys,
Sorry for the lack of an intelligent remedy.  After reading my response again, I can't believe I even came up with that rediculousness, must have been the lack of sleep or this cold I have.  I won't say what industry I'm in either, it would scare too many.  Now that I have broadcasted myself as an idiot, maybe my future responses can be more educated so I can begin to save face.
Disregard my prior statement.
Thank you, Jason Nemake  (not an idiot)
 

From: Jason Nemake
To: "Q-LIST@..."
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
 
Guys,
Are the elevator control surfaces statically balanced on the LS airfoil, like they are on the GU airfoil?  If so, then I would guess that if you unbalanced the control surface and started increasing the cg of the control surface aft, to try and cancel the lifting effect caused by the LS cuspt then heavy springs or sparrow strainers might not be needed.  One could possibly go as far as weighting the trailing edge.  The result would be a drooped elevator on the ground until reaching flying speeds, and a positive effect on the stick at low speeds.  Maybe even a combination of springs and aft weight.  There of coarse would be G effects to this idea.  Some things to ponder..
Jason Nemake

From: "jcrain2@..."
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
 
Sammy,
Didn't  Tom Moore and Bob Malecek have an adjustable flat piece of aluminum or stainless in place of the upside down airfoil?  I think it had a slight up kicker at the back though.  Call them to see what their ideas were.  It might be a bit less drag perhaps X 2.
Bruce  ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Sam Hoskins To: Quickie List Subject: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:14:44 -0500
 
The Sparrow Strainers are draggy and slow our planes down. �There must be an alternative. �Every time a speed specialist looks at the the sparrow strainers they go "WTF"?
 
So, let's start at the beginning. �Why are there in the first place?
 
As I understand it, they are an aerodynamic trim designed to counteract the high pressure on the bottom of the canard elevator. �Air wants to push the TE of the elevator up, causing the plane to dive, so the sparrow strainers help by pushing it back down.
 
Is this logic correct?
 
So, what would be a drag-free alternative? �Well, I suppose one could increase the spring tension already used for the control stick. �Why didn't QAC do something like that? �Maybe it would increase the stick forces. �Just guessing but when they first flew flew the new �LS-1 airfoil, they probably found they needed an extraordinary amount of nose up trim. �Followed by going with the cheapest fix - add sparrow strainers.
 
Another issue with using internal trim, is you are applying a constant torque to the joint there the elevator bellcrank slips into the elevator torque tube. �Maybe it's not a big deal, bit it's there.
 
This is all supposition. �Is anyone privy to the real story?
 
So, all of you aerodynamic tinkerers, what could be a viable way to eliminate the sparrow strainers?
 
Thanks for reading.
 
Sam
 
____________________________________________________________30-second trick for a flat belly
This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning hormone
TheFatBurningHormone.com

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6687 - Release Date: 09/21/13


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Bartholomew Hanson Fisher
 


Revmaster exhaust stack - more stuff from original Q2 kit

Jim Ham <jimham@...>
 

I found the original "antireversion" exhaust stack from my Q2 kit.
Surplused as I built a Q200. It's been in the garage ever since.
Pictures here:
<https://picasaweb.google.com/MrPorcine/Revmaster4Into1FromQ2Kit?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNmhoI27z9OJPg&feat=directlink>

Give me an offer - no reasonable offer refused. Unreasonable offers
considered.

Jim
--
Porcine Associates LLC
244 O'Connor St.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
USA
+1(650)326-2669 fax +1(650)326-1071


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Jason Nemake <fg13fg@...>
 

Hey guys,
Sorry for the lack of an intelligent remedy.  After reading my response again, I can't believe I even came up with that rediculousness, must have been the lack of sleep or this cold I have.  I won't say what industry I'm in either, it would scare too many.  Now that I have broadcasted myself as an idiot, maybe my future responses can be more educated so I can begin to save face.
Disregard my prior statement.
Thank you, Jason Nemake  (not an idiot)
 

From: Jason Nemake
To: "Q-LIST@..."
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
 
Guys,
Are the elevator control surfaces statically balanced on the LS airfoil, like they are on the GU airfoil?  If so, then I would guess that if you unbalanced the control surface and started increasing the cg of the control surface aft, to try and cancel the lifting effect caused by the LS cuspt then heavy springs or sparrow strainers might not be needed.  One could possibly go as far as weighting the trailing edge.  The result would be a drooped elevator on the ground until reaching flying speeds, and a positive effect on the stick at low speeds.  Maybe even a combination of springs and aft weight.  There of coarse would be G effects to this idea.  Some things to ponder..
Jason Nemake

From: "jcrain2@..." To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
 
Sammy,
Didn't  Tom Moore and Bob Malecek have an adjustable flat piece of aluminum or stainless in place of the upside down airfoil?  I think it had a slight up kicker at the back though.  Call them to see what their ideas were.  It might be a bit less drag perhaps X 2.
Bruce  ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Sam Hoskins To: Quickie List Subject: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:14:44 -0500
 
The Sparrow Strainers are draggy and slow our planes down. �There must be an alternative. �Every time a speed specialist looks at the the sparrow strainers they go "WTF"?
 
So, let's start at the beginning. �Why are there in the first place?
 
As I understand it, they are an aerodynamic trim designed to counteract the high pressure on the bottom of the canard elevator. �Air wants to push the TE of the elevator up, causing the plane to dive, so the sparrow strainers help by pushing it back down.
 
Is this logic correct?
 
So, what would be a drag-free alternative? �Well, I suppose one could increase the spring tension already used for the control stick. �Why didn't QAC do something like that? �Maybe it would increase the stick forces. �Just guessing but when they first flew flew the new �LS-1 airfoil, they probably found they needed an extraordinary amount of nose up trim. �Followed by going with the cheapest fix - add sparrow strainers.
 
Another issue with using internal trim, is you are applying a constant torque to the joint there the elevator bellcrank slips into the elevator torque tube. �Maybe it's not a big deal, bit it's there.
 
This is all supposition. �Is anyone privy to the real story?
 
So, all of you aerodynamic tinkerers, what could be a viable way to eliminate the sparrow strainers?
 
Thanks for reading.
 
Sam
 
____________________________________________________________30-second trick for a flat belly
This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning hormone
TheFatBurningHormone.com


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

One Sky Dog
 


Sam,

Here is your link. It is a double spring centered link, movable on a threaded rod a motor turns the rod.

Charlie


On Sep 20, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:

Charlie  - Could you provide note info, or a link, about the Strong trimmer?

Sam

Sent via wireless gizmo.


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Sam Hoskins
 

Charlie  - Could you provide note info, or a link, about the Strong trimmer?

Sam

Sent via wireless gizmo.


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Gary McKirdy
 

Sam, I know you have the LS1 but this might help a guy like you to experiment.

On the G.U. the most simple solution is to fabricate a very light extension to the full elevator span an inch long with a 20 degree upwards rake relative to the elevator centre line.

Flown this many hrs but everyone beware of the potential risks as follows.

1. It needs to be light, 1/8" balsa core (Thicker on the LS1) with no more than  a single 92125 lapping on to the sanded to glass (dig out micro wedge on underside)T.E. The aim is to not move the elevator balance C of G any further back OR YOU MUST ADD LEAD TO THE MASS BALANCE WEIGHT ON THE BALANCE ARM INSIDE THE FUS' TO COMPENSATE!!!

This reflex profile is nevertheless inherently anti flutter, see "Design of the Aeroplane" by Darrol Stinton section control surfaces for full explanation.

2. Full aft stick pitch buck. You have added a very small amount of area to the canard off set somewhat by loosing the strainer area but you need to approach flight testing fully aware that your rear wing stall margin at aft C of G will be slightly reduces at full aft stick. That can be compensated by moving aircraft C of G slightly forward or flying with reflexed ailerons slightly lower (easy) or adjusting them to trim further down slightly. Again 1/8 " T.E. down has a surprisingly powerful effect.

3. The modified T.E strip attachment needs to be capable of handling all flight loads so get a good bond as loosing one side only would require holding a roll trim load.

4. Make sure all elevator drive bolts and and torque tubes are sound and pivots greased as there will be a slightly greater stick load with increasing speed.

5. If your elevators have not been glassed or mechanically pinned or riveted to the torque tubes, and are relying on the micro bond, OR IF YOU ARE NOT SURE, THEN SECURE THEM.

The good news is the aircraft will fly slower on landing at fully held off...full aft stick and go faster in cruise as the canard/elevator now reflexed T.E. profile off loads unneeded lift and so induced drag of the canard.

Well you did ask ;-)



Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Allan Farr
 

I wonder why they're not needed on the GU canard. 


--- In Q-LIST@..., <q-list@...> wrote:

You're right Charlie.  When my TriQ goes faster the sparrow strainers pull down more and I have to push the stick forward to hold it level.  With the set up that Pat show us you could trim for all speeds perhaps.  That would be a plus for Sammy when he is at 208 mph I would think.
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Charlie Johnson <oneskydog@...>
To: "Q-LIST@..." <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:40:29 -0600

 

Jim,

Sparrow strainers are also proportional to the speed so the right correction is applied at all air speeds automatically.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson



On Sep 19, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Jim Ham <jimham@...> wrote:

> I just thought of another plus for the sparrow strainer. It is placed
> below and behind the trailing edge of the elevator. This does two
> things: It puts it in relatively undisturbed air and it increased the
> lever arm on the elevator. Greater lever arm means lower down force
> needed and lower induced drag for the same torque on the elevator.
>
>> But wait - doesn't an anti-servo tab and a sparrow strainer do the same thing? Namely, produce an aerodynamic down force on the elevator. Remember that the sparrow strainers are constructed with an airfoil. Airfoils have very little parasitic drag compaired to other shapes. Why would you think that a servo tab as less parasitic drag than a sparrow strainer?
>>
>> Spoken by a novice - let the experts come in on this :-).
>
> Jim
>
> Patrick Panzera wrote:
>>
>>
>> BTW, when I was the Dragonfly newsletter editor, Terry O'Neill submitted
>> an excellent article on how he did away with his sparrow strainers by
>> installing anti-servo tabs that are also used as an aerodynamic pitch
>> trim system. He also talks about balancing the elevators to avoid flutter.
>>
>> I just uploaded the entire issue.
>>
>> http://issuu.com/contact.magazine/docs/dragonfly_newsletter_97
>>
>> And if I uploaded it properly, it should download to a printable PDF.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Patrick Panzera
>> <editor@... <mailto:editor@...>> wrote:
>>
>> Adding weight aft of the center of rotation is a sure recipe for
>> flutter.
>> Even at low speeds, a little bump could start it.
>>
>> Look how stable a car's antenna is under normal conditions.
>> Now imaging a weight at the tip... or note what happens to it when
>> weight is added from ice.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Jason Nemake <fg13fg@...
>> <mailto:fg13fg@...>> wrote:
>>
>> __
>>
>> Guys,
>> Are the elevator control surfaces statically balanced on the LS
>> airfoil, like they are on the GU airfoil? If so, then I would
>> guess that if you unbalanced the control surface and started
>> increasing the cg of the control surface aft, to try and cancel
>> the lifting effect caused by the LS cuspt then heavy springs or
>> sparrow strainers might not be needed. One could possibly go as
>> far as weighting the trailing edge. The result would be a
>> drooped elevator on the ground until reaching flying speeds, and
>> a positive effect on the stick at low speeds. Maybe even a
>> combination of springs and aft weight. There of coarse would be
>> G effects to this idea. Some things to ponder..
>> Jason Nemake
>>
>> *From:* "jcrain2@... <mailto:jcrain2@...>"
>> <jcrain2@... <mailto:jcrain2@...>>
>> *To:* Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST@...>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:55 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
>> __
>> Sammy,
>> Didn't Tom Moore and Bob Malecek have an adjustable flat piece
>> of aluminum or stainless in place of the upside down airfoil? I
>> think it had a slight up kicker at the back though. Call them
>> to see what their ideas were. It might be a bit less drag
>> perhaps X 2.
>> Bruce ____---------- Original Message ----------__From: Sam
>> Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...
>> <mailto:sam.hoskins@...>>__To: Quickie List
>> <Q-LIST@...
>> <mailto:Q-LIST@...>>__Subject: [Q-LIST] Need a
>> Sparrow Strainer alternative__Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:14:44
>> -0500____
>> The Sparrow Strainers are draggy and slow our planes down.
>> �There must be an alternative. �Every time a speed specialist
>> looks at the the sparrow strainers they go "WTF"?
>> So, let's start at the beginning. �Why are there in the first place?
>> As I understand it, they are an aerodynamic trim designed to
>> counteract the high pressure on the bottom of the canard
>> elevator. �Air wants to push the TE of the elevator up, causing
>> the plane to dive, so the sparrow strainers help by pushing it
>> back down.
>> Is this logic correct?
>> So, what would be a drag-free alternative? �Well, I suppose one
>> could increase the spring tension already used for the control
>> stick. �Why didn't QAC do something like that? �Maybe it would
>> increase the stick forces. �Just guessing but when they first
>> flew flew the new �LS-1 airfoil, they probably found they needed
>> an extraordinary amount of nose up trim. �Followed by going with
>> the cheapest fix - add sparrow strainers.
>> Another issue with using internal trim, is you are applying a
>> constant torque to the joint there the elevator bellcrank slips
>> into the elevator torque tube. �Maybe it's not a big deal, bit
>> it's there.
>> This is all supposition. �Is anyone privy to the real story?
>> So, all of you aerodynamic tinkerers, what could be a viable way
>> to eliminate the sparrow strainers?
>> Thanks for reading.
>> Sam
>> __________________________________________________________*30-second
>> trick for a flat belly*
>> This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning hormone
>> <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/523a75e01b0875df585dst01vuc>TheFatBurningHormone.com
>> <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/523a75e01b0875df585dst01vuc>
>> ____
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6678 - Release Date: 09/18/13
>
> --
> Porcine Associates LLC
> 244 O'Connor St.
> Menlo Park, CA 94025
> USA
> +1(650)326-2669 fax +1(650)326-1071
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

 



____________________________________________________________
One Weird Trick
Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify…
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Bruce Crain
 


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

One Sky Dog
 

Bruce,

Sparrow strainers set up properly are supposed to counter balance the force at all airspeeds. I could never get mine to fly hands off. I now have a Strong trimmer like the EZ boys use and I like it. It may be powerful enough to lose the sparrow strainers but I am not running out to try it. Right now I have 3 of them on but thinking of removing one of them. I still had to hold back on the stick with 3 before I put the Strong trimmer on.I may have to slow down the motor and I think there is an adjustment for that.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson


On Sep 20, 2013, at 1:19 AM, "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...> wrote:

You're right Charlie.  When my TriQ goes faster the sparrow strainers pull down more and I have to push the stick forward to hold it level.  With the set up that Pat show us you could trim for all speeds perhaps.  That would be a plus for Sammy when he is at 208 mph I would think.
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Charlie Johnson <oneskydog@...>
To: "Q-LIST@..." <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:40:29 -0600

 

Jim,

Sparrow strainers are also proportional to the speed so the right correction is applied at all air speeds automatically.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson



On Sep 19, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Jim Ham <jimham@...> wrote:

> I just thought of another p lus for the sparrow strainer. It is placed
> below and behind the trailing edge of the elevator. This does two
> things: It puts it in relatively undisturbed air and it increased the
> lever arm on the elevator. Greater lever arm means lower down force
> needed and lower induced drag for the same torque on the elevator.
>
>> But wait - doesn't an anti-servo tab and a sparrow strainer do the same thing? Namely, produce an aerodynamic down force on the elevator. Remember that the sparrow strainers are constructed with an airfoil. Airfoils have very little parasitic drag compaired to other shapes. Why would you think that a servo tab as less parasitic drag than a sparrow strainer?
>>
>> Spoken by a novice - let the experts come in on this :-).
>
> Jim
>
> Patrick Panzera wrote:
>>
>>
>> BTW, when I was the Dragonfly newsletter editor, Terry O'Neil l submitted
>> an excellent article on how he did away with his sparrow strainers by
>> installing anti-servo tabs that are also used as an aerodynamic pitch
>> trim system. He also talks about balancing the elevators to avoid flutter.
>>
>> I just uploaded the entire issue.
>>
>> http://issuu.com/contact.magazine/docs/dragonfly_newsletter_97
>>
>> And if I uploaded it properly, it should download to a printable PDF.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Patrick Panzera
>> <editor@... <mailto:editor@...>> wrote:
>>
>> Adding weight aft of the center of rotation is a sure recipe for
>> flutter.
>> Even at low speeds, a little bump could start it.
>>
>> Look how stable a car's antenna is under normal condi tions.
>> Now imaging a weight at the tip... or note what happens to it when
>> weight is added from ice.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Jason Nemake <fg13fg@...
>> <mailto:fg13fg@...>> wrote:
>>
>> __
>>
>> Guys,
>> Are the elevator control surfaces statically balanced on the LS
>> airfoil, like they are on the GU airfoil? If so, then I would
>> guess that if you unbalanced the control surface and started
>> increasing the cg of the control surface aft, to try and cancel
>> the lifting effect caused by the LS cuspt then heavy springs or
>> sparrow strainers might not be needed. One could possibly go as
>> far as weighting the trailing edge. The result would be a
>> drooped elevator on the ground until reaching flying speeds, and
>> a positive effect on the stick at low speeds. Maybe even a
>> combination of springs and aft weight. There of coarse would be
>> G effects to this idea. Some things to ponder..
>> Jason Nemake
>>
>> *From:* "jcrain2@... <mailto:jcrain2@...>"
>> <jcrain2@... <mailto:jcrain2@...>>
>> *To:* Q-LIST@... <mailto:Q-LIST@...>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:55 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
>> __
>> Sammy,
>> Didn't Tom Moore and Bob Malecek have an adjustable flat piece
>> of aluminum or stainless in place of the upside down airfoil? I
>> think it had a slight up kicker at the back though. Call them
>> to see what their ideas were. It might be a bit less drag
>> perhaps X 2.
>> Bruce ____---------- Original Message --- -------__From: Sam
>> Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...
>> <mailto:sam.hoskins@...>>__To: Quickie List
>> <Q-LIST@...
>> <mailto:Q-LIST@...>>__Subject: [Q-LIST] Need a
>> Sparrow Strainer alternative__Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:14:44
>> -0500____
>> The Sparrow Strainers are draggy and slow our planes down.
>> �There must be an alternative. �Every time a speed specialist
>> looks at the the sparrow strainers they go "WTF"?
>> So, let's start at the beginning. �Why are there in the first place?
>> As I understand it, they are an aerodynamic trim designed to
>> counteract the high pressure on the bottom of the canard
>> elevator. �Air wants to push the TE of the elevator up, causing
>> the plane to dive, so the sparrow strainers help by pushing it
>> ba ck down.
>> Is this logic correct?
>> So, what would be a drag-free alternative? �Well, I suppose one
>> could increase the spring tension already used for the control
>> stick. �Why didn't QAC do something like that? �Maybe it would
>> increase the stick forces. �Just guessing but when they first
>> flew flew the new �LS-1 airfoil, they probably found they needed
>> an extraordinary amount of nose up trim. �Followed by going with
>> the cheapest fix - add sparrow strainers.
>> Another issue with using internal trim, is you are applying a
>> constant torque to the joint there the elevator bellcrank slips
>> into the elevator torque tube. �Maybe it's not a big deal, bit
>> it's there.
>> This is all supposition. �Is anyone privy to the real story?
>> So, all of you aerodynamic tinker ers, what could be a viable way
>> to eliminate the sparrow strainers?
>> Thanks for reading.
>> Sam
>> __________________________________________________________*30-second
>> trick for a flat belly*
>> This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning hormone
>> <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/523a75e01b0875df585dst01vuc>TheFatBurningHormone.com
>> <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/523a75e01b0875df585dst01vuc>
>> ____
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>> Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6678 - Release Date: 09/18/13
>
> --
> Porcine Associates LLC
> 244 O'Connor St.
> Menlo Park, CA 94025
> USA
> +1( 650)326-2669 fax +1(650)326-1071
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Quickie Builders Association WEB site
> http://www.quickiebuilders.org
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

 



____________________________________________________________
One Weird Trick
Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify…
newsmax.com


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Bruce Crain
 


Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative

Bruce Crain
 

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