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Re: Flight Report
Kevin and Paul, I really enjoyed reading of your recent trip. You fellows are what aircraft building and EAA are all about. Taking the time to offer flight time to Jon, another builder is most commendable, cheers to you guys. I look forward to read of more flights and builder assistance. I'm still rebuilding with about two more months before flying again so thanks for the flying stories.
Calvin Thorne ---In Q-LIST@..., <q-list@...> wrote: Listers, We had a great flight today. Who is we? Paul Fisher and I went from DEH to TOB, only about 75 miles. The morning was great when we awoke, but soon there was ground fog. Very spotty, but fog none the less. Got a great breakfast consisting of a coffee and a roll at the local gas station. Off to the airport. The fog had lifted there, but to the west there was a layer that stretched for about 15 miles. It was very cool to fly over. Most of the way to TOB there was fog to the north of us, but at lease 20 miles away. At 2500' the air was smooth, so we stayed there for the ride up. When we arrived we were greeted by Jon Swenson and Phil Christiansen. Phil has his plane in a hanger there, and is working on getting it in the air. Jon was needing some flying time before his first flight. Jon and I jumped in my Q and headed out. We did a simulated first flight. Took off on 16 with a 15MPH nose wind. Climbed to 3000' to make slow turns, climbs, descents. all the usual. Climbed up to 4000' and did some pitch bucks, which were interesting, as I did not advance the power all the way, and we got into a second and third pitch buck. A good lesson, as I was not expecting the last two, so it was real world. Jon flew for about 45 min just making mild maneuvers. Then back to the pattern for landing. It was so rough at pattern alt, that I decided not to do touch and go's, and landed. We will pick a smooth day for pattern work. Went to Phil's hanger upon landing, and looked over his project. He is coming along, but slowly. We lit a fire under his ass, and headed for the planes. While on the walk back to the apron, another DF builder came swarming in (get it)? in his van. He has a new project,to him, and is the forth owner. I did not get his name, and apologize for that, but the was enthusiastic. Got back in the planes and headed for home. I to DEH and Paul to DVN, but we flew together until I had to let down. At 5500' it was spectacular! Just a great day to be alive and fly. I am grateful for all the help I received while I was building and preparing to fly. I can only hope that my small contribution to Jon's skills are helpful to him. Keep building, it only gets better. Kevin Boddicker TriQ 200 N7868B 309 hrs Luana, IA.
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Barnstormers: QUICKIE EXPERIMENTAL . $3,500 . FOR SALE
John Loram <johnl@...>
QUICKIE EXPERIMENTAL • $3,500 • FOR SALE • Quickie eperimental aircraft. It has a 447 rotax engine, comes with all orginal paperwork, unknown hours, but appears to be in good condition, It has flown before but needs a little work before flying again. If you have any questions call me at 3256603334 • Contact Ken W. Roark, Owner - located Cisco, TX USA • Telephone: 325-660-3334 . 254-442-1277 . • Fax: 254-442-1336 • Posted September 23, 2013 •
-john-
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Jason Nemake <fg13fg@...>
Sorry again, David.
I thought I did go back to my original statement, but it was one after it, I believe.
Jason Nemake (idiot-maybe)
From: "David@..."
To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:39 PM Subject: [Q-LIST] RE: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Jason,
You need to go back to your original message and "reply" to it with your disclaimer, so that the next guy to read this thread will see it immediately instead of having to scroll through 27 other messages before he sees is.
I'll go back to lurking (and cringing) as soon as this thread goes to the Q-PERFORMANCE list where it belongs.
Sam, OMG, if you don't call John Roncz personally before you pursue any of these so-called "improvements," Jimmeh will not forgive you whilst we all say our "shoulda known betters"....
Sign me "lurker"
Hey guys,
Sorry for the lack of an intelligent remedy. After reading my response again, I can't believe I even came up with that rediculousness, must have been the lack of sleep or this cold I have. I won't say what industry I'm in either, it would scare too many. Now that I have broadcasted myself as an idiot, maybe my future responses can be more educated so I can begin to save face.
Disregard my prior statement.
Thank you, Jason Nemake (not an idiot)
From: Jason Nemake
To: "Q-LIST@..." Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Guys,
Are the elevator control surfaces statically balanced on the LS airfoil, like they are on the GU airfoil? If so, then I would guess that if you unbalanced the control surface and started increasing the cg of the control surface aft, to try and cancel the lifting effect caused by the LS cuspt then heavy springs or sparrow strainers might not be needed. One could possibly go as far as weighting the trailing edge. The result would be a drooped elevator on the ground until reaching flying speeds, and a positive effect on the stick at low speeds. Maybe even a combination of springs and aft weight. There of coarse would be G effects to this idea. Some things to
ponder..
Jason Nemake
From: "jcrain2@..." To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Sammy,
Didn't Tom Moore and Bob Malecek have an adjustable flat piece of aluminum or stainless in place of the upside down airfoil? I think it had a slight up kicker at the back though. Call them to see what their ideas were. It might be a bit less drag perhaps X 2.
Bruce ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Sam Hoskins To: Quickie List Subject: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:14:44 -0500
The Sparrow Strainers are draggy and slow our planes down. �There must be an alternative. �Every time a speed specialist looks at the the sparrow strainers they go "WTF"?
So, let's start at the beginning. �Why are there in the first place?
As I understand it, they are an aerodynamic trim designed to counteract the high pressure on the bottom of the canard elevator. �Air wants to push the TE of the elevator up, causing the plane to dive, so the sparrow strainers help by pushing it back down.
Is this logic correct?
So, what would be a drag-free alternative? �Well, I suppose one could increase the spring tension already used for the control stick. �Why didn't QAC do something like that? �Maybe it would increase the stick forces. �Just guessing but when they first flew flew the new �LS-1 airfoil, they probably found they needed an extraordinary amount of nose up trim. �Followed by going with the cheapest fix - add sparrow strainers.
Another issue with using internal trim, is you are applying a constant torque to the joint there the elevator bellcrank slips into the elevator torque tube. �Maybe it's not a big deal, bit it's there.
This is all supposition. �Is anyone privy to the real story?
So, all of you aerodynamic tinkerers, what could be a viable way to eliminate the sparrow strainers?
Thanks for reading.
Sam This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning hormone TheFatBurningHormone.com
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Re: Flight Report
Kevin,Paul and Phil, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the stick time. Each time I have flown a Q I feel like it fits me well. I won't go so far as to say i am confident in my ability to fly one but I will say that I'm not terrified. It was a great day for flying thanks to all. -- Jon Swenson
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
David J. Gall
Jason,
You need to go back to your original message and "reply" to it with your disclaimer, so that the next guy to read this thread will see it immediately instead of having to scroll through 27 other messages before he sees is.
I'll go back to lurking (and cringing) as soon as this thread goes to the Q-PERFORMANCE list where it belongs.
Sam, OMG, if you don't call John Roncz personally before you pursue any of these so-called "improvements," Jimmeh will not forgive you whilst we all say our "shoulda known betters"....
Sign me "lurker"
--- In q-list@..., <fg13fg@...> wrote: Hey guys,
Sorry for the lack of an intelligent remedy. After reading my response again, I can't believe I even came up with that rediculousness, must have been the lack of sleep or this cold I have. I won't say what industry I'm in either, it would scare too many. Now that I have broadcasted myself as an idiot, maybe my future responses can be more educated so I can begin to save face.
Disregard my prior statement.
Thank you, Jason Nemake (not an idiot)
From: Jason Nemake <fg13fg@...>
To: "Q-LIST@..." <Q-LIST@...> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Guys,
Are the elevator control surfaces statically balanced on the LS airfoil, like they are on the GU airfoil? If so, then I would guess that if you unbalanced the control surface and started increasing the cg of the control surface aft, to try and cancel the lifting effect caused by the LS cuspt then heavy springs or sparrow strainers might not be needed. One could possibly go as far as weighting the trailing edge. The result would be a drooped elevator on the ground until reaching flying speeds, and a positive effect on the stick at low speeds. Maybe even a combination of springs and aft weight. There of coarse would be G effects to this idea. Some things to ponder..
Jason Nemake
From: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Sammy,
Didn't Tom Moore and Bob Malecek have an adjustable flat piece of aluminum or stainless in place of the upside down airfoil? I think it had a slight up kicker at the back though. Call them to see what their ideas were. It might be a bit less drag perhaps X 2.
Bruce ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...> Subject: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:14:44 -0500
The Sparrow Strainers are draggy and slow our planes down. �There must be an alternative. �Every time a speed specialist looks at the the sparrow strainers they go "WTF"?
So, let's start at the beginning. �Why are there in the first place?
As I understand it, they are an aerodynamic trim designed to counteract the high pressure on the bottom of the canard elevator. �Air wants to push the TE of the elevator up, causing the plane to dive, so the sparrow strainers help by pushing it back down.
Is this logic correct?
So, what would be a drag-free alternative? �Well, I suppose one could increase the spring tension already used for the control stick. �Why didn't QAC do something like that? �Maybe it would increase the stick forces. �Just guessing but when they first flew flew the new �LS-1 airfoil, they probably found they needed an extraordinary amount of nose up trim. �Followed by going with the cheapest fix - add sparrow strainers.
Another issue with using internal trim, is you are applying a constant torque to the joint there the elevator bellcrank slips into the elevator torque tube. �Maybe it's not a big deal, bit it's there.
This is all supposition. �Is anyone privy to the real story?
So, all of you aerodynamic tinkerers, what could be a viable way to eliminate the sparrow strainers?
Thanks for reading.
Sam This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning hormone TheFatBurningHormone.com
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Re: Flight Report
Phil Christiansen <rxforfun51@...>
Kevin, Paul & Jon, Thanks for stopping in today. It's always great to see you guys and your beautiful birds! The new Dragonfly builder you met is Tom Hughes. I told Tom to stop in to the airport today after I found out Kevin, Paul and Jon were stopping in for a visit. Tom lives here in Rochester too. I've been trying to help him out as best I can as he too is trying to convert his taildragger Dragonfly into a tri-gear. He was excited to see your planes and meet a couple more tandem wing flyers. He promised he'd try and make it to the next Spring Fling as well. Thanks for keeping me motivated guys! It seems like my journey has been of the two steps forward and one step back version. Which is exactly what you noted today when I tried to install my ailerons. Got a stuck hinge bearing and found out I'll have to redo the aileron attach points as the previous owner drilled an extra set of holes right next to the ones that bolt up the levers for the control rods. Sheez, it's always something! Glad to hear you all made it home safe and sound. Best Regards, Phil Chrisitansen
From: Kevin Boddicker To: Q-LIST@... Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:44 PM Subject: [Q-LIST] Flight Report Listers,
We had a great flight today. Who is we? Paul Fisher and I went from DEH to TOB, only about 75 miles. The morning was great when we awoke, but soon there was ground fog. Very spotty, but fog none the less. Got a great breakfast consisting of a coffee and a roll at the local gas station. Off to the airport. The fog had lifted there, but to the west there was a layer that stretched for about 15 miles. It was very cool to fly over. Most of the way to TOB there was fog to the north of us, but at lease 20 miles away. At 2500' the air was smooth, so we stayed there for the ride up. When we arrived we were greeted by Jon Swenson and Phil Christiansen. Phil has his plane in a hanger there, and is working on getting it in the air. Jon was needing some flying time before his first flight. Jon and I jumped in my Q and headed out. We did a simulated first flight. Took off on 16 with a 15MPH nose wind. Climbed to 3000' to make slow turns, climbs, descents. all the usual. Climbed up to 4000' and did some pitch bucks, which were interesting, as I did not advance the power all the way, and we got into a second and third pitch buck. A good lesson, as I was not expecting the last two, so it was real world. Jon flew for about 45 min just making mild maneuvers. Then back to the pattern for landing. It was so rough at pattern alt, that I decided not to do touch and go's, and landed. We will pick a smooth day for pattern work. Went to Phil's hanger upon landing, and looked over his project. He is coming along, but slowly. We lit a fire under his ass, and headed for the planes. While on the walk back to the apron, another DF builder came swarming in (get it)? in his van. He has a new project,to him, and is the forth owner. I did not get his name, and apologize for that, but the was enthusiastic. Got back in the planes and headed for home. I to DEH and Paul to DVN, but we flew together until I had to let down. At 5500' it was spectacular! Just a great day to be alive and fly. I am grateful for all the help I received while I was building and preparing to fly. I can only hope that my small contribution to Jon's skills are helpful to him. Keep building, it only gets better. Kevin Boddicker TriQ 200 N7868B 309 hrs Luana, IA.
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Re: Flight Report
Fisher Paul A. <fisherpaula@...>
My track is here: http://aprs.fi/n17pf. If you extend the time range you should see the whole trip.
The detour around Dyersville was to find the baseball diamond in the corn field they built for the movie Field of Dreams. I found it - not too much to see at altitude, but at least I finally found it!
Beautiful weather! Had a great time!
- Paul
Sent from mobile...
On Sep 22, 2013, at 15:44, "Kevin Boddicker" <trumanst@...> wrote:
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Flight Report
Kevin Boddicker
Listers,
We had a great flight today. Who is we? Paul Fisher and I went from DEH to TOB, only about 75 miles. The morning was great when we awoke, but soon there was ground fog. Very spotty, but fog none the less. Got a great breakfast consisting of a coffee and a roll at the local gas station. Off to the airport. The fog had lifted there, but to the west there was a layer that stretched for about 15 miles. It was very cool to fly over. Most of the way to TOB there was fog to the north of us, but at lease 20 miles away. At 2500' the air was smooth, so we stayed there for the ride up. When we arrived we were greeted by Jon Swenson and Phil Christiansen. Phil has his plane in a hanger there, and is working on getting it in the air. Jon was needing some flying time before his first flight. Jon and I jumped in my Q and headed out. We did a simulated first flight. Took off on 16 with a 15MPH nose wind. Climbed to 3000' to make slow turns, climbs, descents. all the usual. Climbed up to 4000' and did some pitch bucks, which were interesting, as I did not advance the power all the way, and we got into a second and third pitch buck. A good lesson, as I was not expecting the last two, so it was real world. Jon flew for about 45 min just making mild maneuvers. Then back to the pattern for landing. It was so rough at pattern alt, that I decided not to do touch and go's, and landed. We will pick a smooth day for pattern work. Went to Phil's hanger upon landing, and looked over his project. He is coming along, but slowly. We lit a fire under his ass, and headed for the planes. While on the walk back to the apron, another DF builder came swarming in (get it)? in his van. He has a new project,to him, and is the forth owner. I did not get his name, and apologize for that, but the was enthusiastic. Got back in the planes and headed for home. I to DEH and Paul to DVN, but we flew together until I had to let down. At 5500' it was spectacular! Just a great day to be alive and fly. I am grateful for all the help I received while I was building and preparing to fly. I can only hope that my small contribution to Jon's skills are helpful to him. Keep building, it only gets better. Kevin Boddicker TriQ 200 N7868B 309 hrs Luana, IA.
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Paul Buckley
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Heh heh, ' not-an-idiot' Jason
I guess that the maxim is 'engage brain before
tapping the keys'
Prior statement disregarded ............... :-)
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Bartholomew Hanson Fisher
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Revmaster exhaust stack - more stuff from original Q2 kit
Jim Ham <jimham@...>
I found the original "antireversion" exhaust stack from my Q2 kit.
Surplused as I built a Q200. It's been in the garage ever since. Pictures here: <https://picasaweb.google.com/MrPorcine/Revmaster4Into1FromQ2Kit?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNmhoI27z9OJPg&feat=directlink> Give me an offer - no reasonable offer refused. Unreasonable offers considered. Jim -- Porcine Associates LLC 244 O'Connor St. Menlo Park, CA 94025 USA +1(650)326-2669 fax +1(650)326-1071
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Jason Nemake <fg13fg@...>
Hey guys,
Sorry for the lack of an intelligent remedy. After reading my response again, I can't believe I even came up with that rediculousness, must have been the lack of sleep or this cold I have. I won't say what industry I'm in either, it would scare too many. Now that I have broadcasted myself as an idiot, maybe my future responses can be more educated so I can begin to save face.
Disregard my prior statement.
Thank you, Jason Nemake (not an idiot)
From: Jason Nemake
To: "Q-LIST@..." Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Guys,
Are the elevator control surfaces statically balanced on the LS airfoil, like they are on the GU airfoil? If so, then I would guess that if you unbalanced the control surface and started increasing the cg of the control surface aft, to try and cancel the lifting effect caused by the LS cuspt then heavy springs or sparrow strainers might not be needed. One could possibly go as far as weighting the trailing edge. The result would be a drooped elevator on the ground until reaching flying speeds, and a positive effect on the stick at low speeds. Maybe even a combination of springs and aft weight. There of coarse would be G effects to this idea. Some things to ponder..
Jason Nemake
From: "jcrain2@..." To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Sammy,
Didn't Tom Moore and Bob Malecek have an adjustable flat piece of aluminum or stainless in place of the upside down airfoil? I think it had a slight up kicker at the back though. Call them to see what their ideas were. It might be a bit less drag perhaps X 2.
Bruce ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Sam Hoskins To: Quickie List Subject: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:14:44 -0500
The Sparrow Strainers are draggy and slow our planes down. �There must be an alternative. �Every time a speed specialist looks at the the sparrow strainers they go "WTF"?
So, let's start at the beginning. �Why are there in the first place?
As I understand it, they are an aerodynamic trim designed to counteract the high pressure on the bottom of the canard elevator. �Air wants to push the TE of the elevator up, causing the plane to dive, so the sparrow strainers help by pushing it back down.
Is this logic correct?
So, what would be a drag-free alternative? �Well, I suppose one could increase the spring tension already used for the control stick. �Why didn't QAC do something like that? �Maybe it would increase the stick forces. �Just guessing but when they first flew flew the new �LS-1 airfoil, they probably found they needed an extraordinary amount of nose up trim. �Followed by going with the cheapest fix - add sparrow strainers.
Another issue with using internal trim, is you are applying a constant torque to the joint there the elevator bellcrank slips into the elevator torque tube. �Maybe it's not a big deal, bit it's there.
This is all supposition. �Is anyone privy to the real story?
So, all of you aerodynamic tinkerers, what could be a viable way to eliminate the sparrow strainers?
Thanks for reading.
Sam This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning hormone TheFatBurningHormone.com
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Sam, Here is your link. It is a double spring centered link, movable on a threaded rod a motor turns the rod. Charlie
On Sep 20, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Charlie - Could you provide note info, or a link, about the Strong trimmer? Sam Sent via wireless gizmo.
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Gary McKirdy
Sam, I know you have the LS1 but this might help a guy like you to experiment. Flown this many hrs but everyone beware of the potential risks as follows.On the G.U. the most simple solution is to fabricate a very light extension to the full elevator span an inch long with a 20 degree upwards rake relative to the elevator centre line. 3. The modified T.E strip attachment needs to be capable of handling all flight loads so get a good bond as loosing one side only would require holding a roll trim load. 4. Make sure all elevator drive bolts and and torque tubes are sound and pivots greased as there will be a slightly greater stick load with increasing speed. 5. If your elevators have not been glassed or mechanically pinned or riveted to the torque tubes, and are relying on the micro bond, OR IF YOU ARE NOT SURE, THEN SECURE THEM.
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Allan Farr
I wonder why they're not needed on the GU canard.
--- In Q-LIST@..., <q-list@...> wrote: You're right Charlie. When my TriQ goes faster the sparrow strainers pull down more and I have to push the stick forward to hold it level. With the set up that Pat show us you could trim for all speeds perhaps. That would be a plus for Sammy when he is at 208 mph I would think. Bruce
---------- Original Message ---------- From: Charlie Johnson <oneskydog@...> To: "Q-LIST@..." <Q-LIST@...> Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:40:29 -0600 Jim, On Sep 19, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Jim Ham <jimham@...> wrote:
____________________________________________________________ One Weird Trick Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify… newsmax.com
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
Bruce, Sparrow strainers set up properly are supposed to counter balance the force at all airspeeds. I could never get mine to fly hands off. I now have a Strong trimmer like the EZ boys use and I like it. It may be powerful enough to lose the sparrow strainers but I am not running out to try it. Right now I have 3 of them on but thinking of removing one of them. I still had to hold back on the stick with 3 before I put the Strong trimmer on.I may have to slow down the motor and I think there is an adjustment for that. Regards, Charlie Johnson
On Sep 20, 2013, at 1:19 AM, "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...> wrote:
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
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Re: Need a Sparrow Strainer alternative
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