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Re: New O-200 owner
Jon Matcho <jmatcho@...>
Yes, saw that, thanks. I too am planning to use that custom black rubber cradling system you pioneered there.
Hope you can make it to the FOD safely this year! I am looking forward to that.
Jon
From: Q-LIST@... on behalf of Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 7:06 PM To: Quickie List Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Re: New O-200 owner Look at my post from September 8 from last year. www.samhoskins.blogspot.com Sam Sent via wireless gizmo.
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Re: New O-200 owner
Look at my post from September 8 from last year. www.samhoskins.blogspot.com Sam Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 8, 2014 5:04 PM, "Jon Matcho jmatcho@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
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2014 FOD Fly-in
Dave Dugas
Hi All Less than three weeks from now is the 24th annual Field of Dreams fly-in, taking place at Orange Municipal Airport, Orange Mass. I am hoping for a nice window of weather for the event, along with some colorful fall foliage. I haven’t really scheduled any specific times for Saturday activities, other than eating at around 6 PM. Personally I am looking forward to seeing as many past, present , and future Quickie and Dragonfly pilots that can possibly make it to this years FOD. Jay Scheevel has been working for several years on an analysis of the LS1 canard, and he is bringing material for a presentation. Dan Yager is looking for samples of the test layup in the Q2 plans, which he will scientifically try to destroy. And last but not least for the ladies who attend, my wife Dianna will take them on a scenic drive, 30 minutes, to Yankee Candle headquarters in historic Deerfield Mass, the “Scenter of the Universe”, if they can tear themselves away from the action for a few hours. I am having steamed clams and lobster for the evening meal, and if any one would rather have something different, please let me know. Not everyone cares for seafood, or they may have an allergy, so please don’t hesitate to inform me. Last year I didn’t think about that, and I wasn’t prepared. I promise not to let you leave hungry (or thirsty). Fresh corn is being airlifted to the meal via powered parachute if the wind is less than 1 mph. I also would like to know how many are planning to make it this year, and whether you are flying a Q or Dragonfly, spam can or rental car….I’ve got a little something for the experimental pilots. I’m planning on Friday arrivals for most of you, and have Jay arriving on Thursday, understanding that weather can change plans. The EAA building will be open 24 / 7 for the whole weekend, so anyone wanting to camp at the airport, tent, trailer, or whatever, is welcome to do so. The area is flat and the grass is mowed. My cell number is 413-772-9165 for arrival updates, delays or if anyone needs information or help of any kind…..please call. Joe from PA (just bought Ernest Martin’s beautiful Tri-Q), are you planning to attend? Valuable information will be provided free of charge, and you’ll meet some really nice people. Please try to make it. Can’t wait to see everyone soon. Dave Dugas Sent from Windows Mail
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Re: New O-200 owner
Jon Matcho <jmatcho@...>
Sam, I was told about your engine and prop trailering, which I am considering as well (perhaps not the prop).
I may make a short trip from Reading, PA to Allentown, PA first, but ultimately I am planning to get into my garage where I can rebuild this fall/winter. I need to reconfigure my garage for this, and need to find out how long I have to get it out of there.
I am taking more detailed measurements tomorrow afternoon to figure out the size of trailer I need to rent. I am assuming the tail comes off based on the seam with screws behind the main wing. I can ask Earnest, the builder.
Thanks everyone! Jon
From: Q-LIST@... on behalf of Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Monday, September 8, 2014 4:25 PM To: Quickie List Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: New O-200 owner Last year we drove mine on a trailer from Pennsylvania to Southern Illinois, with the engine and propeller still mounted. Never got stopped either. Sam Sent via wireless gizmo. On Sep 8, 2014 3:24 PM, "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:
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Re: New O-200 owner
Last year we drove mine on a trailer from Pennsylvania to Southern Illinois, with the engine and propeller still mounted. Never got stopped either. Sam Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 8, 2014 3:24 PM, "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:
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Re: New O-200 owner
I believe there are several photos of Q's on trailers on the Yahoo photos section. Sam Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 8, 2014 3:22 PM, "quickieaircraft@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
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Re: New O-200 owner
quickieaircraft
Jon,
You should specify where you are located, as some of us may be able to contribute beyond an email response. Assuming it has been built with a removable tailcone, removing the tailcone is straightforward: disconnect rudder cables and any wiring (antennas) and have a helper hold the cone while you remove the screws. I have moved my Q in this fashion after removing the spinner and prop, which is equally straightforward (unbolting in star shaped pattern). I work very slowly and patiently and it takes me longer than 30 minutes to remove my engine. I investigated all the usual box truck suppliers without finding a good option for both loading and transport with engine installed. With some tips from this community I eventually constructed a trailer than allowed me to load and transport it sideways without the front gear (similar attitude as your second photograph, which helps with the width. You will need to appropriately pad the engine because driving loads over a pothole are much higher than flight loads. If you are east coast, I may be able to help you with the trailer and loading supplies. Best, Emron TriQ200 15hrs.
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CONTACT! Magazine Alternative Engine Round-up and Experimental Aircraft Fly-in
Friends! This is just a friendly reminder that our annual experimental aircraft fly-in is coming up fast. September 27th is the date, and Temecula CA is the location. The event it free to attend, we'll have lots of cool planes to look at, and a bunch of excellent educational forums to learn from. We have a beautiful, air-conditioned facility at our disposal, with a great restaurant. We have the full support from the airport and the awesome French Valley EAA Chapter 1279. We also have a dinner planed for Saturday evening. This 6000' x 75' uncontrolled runway sits at 1,375 ASL and is pretty much centrally located in Southern California, far away enough from the coast that early morning visibility shouldn't be an issue- but close enough to enjoy nearly year-round great weather. If you'd like to join us, an RSVP would be appreciated. If you'd like to present a forum, please let me know ASAP. Thanks! Pat I apologize if you get this message more than once, it just means that you and I are on more than one email group together.
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Re: New O-200 owner
willardwhite671@...
Jon: You may be able to transport it just the way it is by removing the tail. Possibly you'll have to remove the prop and spinner to get under the width requirements. Removing the engine is about a 30 minute job if necessary, but be prepared to mount the engine on a stand for transport. The engine should be removed and inspected for sudden stoppage anyway. It's a pretty airplane, please keep us posted on your progress. Willard Q2- LS1
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New O-200 owner
Jon Matcho <jmatcho@...>
Thanks everyone for the help towards me deciding to purchase an O-200. I found and bought one needing service, but it has this strange looking airplane attached to it. ;-)
The front gear collapsed, but beyond the MT prop being wrecked there does not appear to be much damage at all to the structure and hopefully the engine. I plan on putting a fixed pitch on it while saving up for the MT repair.
At this moment I do not have hangar space and so I am planning to bring home to my garage to get fixed up. Some questions I am working on answers for:
1) Insurance. Will my homeowners cover some "stuff" I have while at an airport? And/or should I get some basic hull insurance, or just take my chances until it's ready?
2) Transport. I'm trying to narrow-down the dimensions for a flatbed trailer. I suppose a box truck could work as well using dollies. I got a few ideas from the pics on the Q-LIST Yahoo group site.
Tips, suggestions, etc. are welcome.
Jon Matcho New owner of Earnest Martin's TriQ-200 N479E Imminent Q2/Q200 builder (unstarted kit also on the way)
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Re: Q2 LS1 Carbon spar?
JMasal@...
Wether you use expanding urethane, stacked foam or artichoke hearts to make an airfoil make sure you STATIC TEST IT and not half-assed but like the professionals do.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
j.
-----Original Message----- From: Mike Perry dmperry1012@... [Q-LIST] To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...> Sent: Sat, Sep 6, 2014 10:52 pm Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Q2 LS1 Carbon spar?
Hello Jim:
Your advice to contact some of the other people in the QBA is excellent; actually, I did just that. A few years ago I went to Livermore, talked to Bob Farnum and Barry Weber and we came up with a plan for reconstruction. But then I ran into my own anxieties. The builder of the project I took over built and flew a RV-4 and an ultralight; however he never completed a composite project and I can no longer talk to him (in very poor health living in another state). The builder's log consists mainly of photographs which tell me a lot -- but don't tell me some critical factors. I remember the cause of Bob McFarland's Fatality: wing assembled with the wrong materials (expanding urethane) leading to delamination. I think there was another wing failure involving a foam core assembled from several pieces of foam stacked together. Not sure I can complete this project -- Still thinking about it. The advice about the Dragonfly spar is excellent. I will see about getting a set of plans. On the other hand, maybe I should just get the Quickie plans and start over, build the single seater. Mike On 9/5/2014 7:43 AM, JMasal@...
[Q-LIST] wrote:
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Re: Off List re Q200 Spar
John Hartley
Oops, inside voice Mike.
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Off List re Q200 Spar
Mike Perry
Hello Jim:
There is another factor I am not putting on the list at this time: I'm having trouble with the FAA over my medical. I served in Vietnam (Marines), then went to Medical School and worked in ERs. Bad combination -- I have problems with PTSD type symptoms, somewhat worse since I retired. Actually, I am quite angry with the FAA medical department. I have a treatment plan that involves Meditation, frequent church attendance with the Franciscans, and monthly counseling with my psychiatrist. The treatment plan works well. The FAA treats me like a suspect in a criminal conspiracy -- they seem sure I am taking drugs now or likely to in the future. I just completed my physical, and I altered some of the statements to emphasize the conservative approach I have taken. If they harasses me this time I will probably sell the Cessna and abandon the Q 200 project. As you can imagine, this makes it hard for me to even think about working on the Q 200. If they change the requirement for the third class medical I would re-consider. Please do not mention this on the list -- I do not want to deal with the reactions I expect. Mike
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Re: Q2 LS1 Carbon spar?
Mike Perry
Hello Jim:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Your advice to contact some of the other people in the QBA is excellent; actually, I did just that. A few years ago I went to Livermore, talked to Bob Farnum and Barry Weber and we came up with a plan for reconstruction. But then I ran into my own anxieties. The builder of the project I took over built and flew a RV-4 and an ultralight; however he never completed a composite project and I can no longer talk to him (in very poor health living in another state). The builder's log consists mainly of photographs which tell me a lot -- but don't tell me some critical factors. I remember the cause of Bob McFarland's Fatality: wing assembled with the wrong materials (expanding urethane) leading to delamination. I think there was another wing failure involving a foam core assembled from several pieces of foam stacked together. Not sure I can complete this project -- Still thinking about it. The advice about the Dragonfly spar is excellent. I will see about getting a set of plans. On the other hand, maybe I should just get the Quickie plans and start over, build the single seater. Mike
On 9/5/2014 7:43 AM, JMasal@...
[Q-LIST] wrote:
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Re: Q2 LS1 Carbon spar?
Allan Farr
Litigation (or the threat of litigation) seems to be dragging your society down somewhat. Here in New Zealand we have ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) It helps prevent a lot of litigation issues, so if you want to sell your a/c and have more or less zero liability just ship it down here;)
---In Q-LIST@..., <davecove@...> wrote : I don't know anything short of serious tort reform that would stop the seeming obligatory litigation that follows every unfortunate event. I am not working on a Q at this time, a CH-750 has my attention at the moment (I want to be able to take off from my own 10 acres). A Q-200 is next because I want to go fast. :) Dave
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Progress report - Oil Sump repairs
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Re: Q2 LS1 Carbon spar?
JMasal@...
Mike,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
It would have been very dumb of me to print detail plans for alternate spars in QTALK (I didn't just fall off a turnip truck, hee hee). That would be hand holding in my estimation AND liability dangerous given the critical nature of the part and the lack of successful flight testing. In the spirit of "education and recreation" and sweat equity I pointed out possible directions to go. For example many Dragonflys are operating successfully with builder built spars. As noted in another post, Doyle and Weishaar built one with their own brainpower which was proved successful. I was told QAC's first one used all carbon layups a la the GU... and there were a couple other trials underway about which more I have not heard.. We have some sharp cookies in the QBA and I believe if I or any of them had your canard and if the spar was not mutilated we could extract it and use it in a new build. If you had built a Q in the first place you would have enough composite knowledge and skill to figure out how to do it. Sweat equity... not avoidable with a skinny bankroll.
You are wise to be suspicious of the rest of the build job given the problem with the canard. Your $$$ AND Life depend on it. You might coax a successful builder to examine your carcass to give you some peace of mind... or not.
j
-----Original Message----- From: Mike Perry dmperry1012@... [Q-LIST] To: Q-LIST Sent: Thu, Sep 4, 2014 2:20 pm Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Q2 LS1 Carbon spar?
Hello Jim:
I should have been more specific: It is hard to WIN a suit involving experimental aircraft, but it isn't hard to file one. Sometimes defending yourself costs so much you go out of business anyway -- that's what happened to QAC if I remember correctly (they won the appeal but went into bankruptcy anyway). And you are correct -- those are risks that keep people from publishing the info I'm looking for. The (former) editor of Q-Talk probably knows better than me, but I don't remember 3 spar plans in the back issues. In fact I don't remember any suitable for a Q-2 or Q-200 (variants for the Tri-Q certainly were, and Alan Thayer's spar-less Q-1 canard). My own project is stalled by a canard problem -- the original builder did not assemble the canard (LS-1) per plans. Thus my interest in a replacement spar. The spar sweep is completely wrong, wheels 6 inches aft of proper location. That's probably reparable, but if he didn't do that right, should I trust any of the rest of his work? Hard Question. I can buy a replacement spar from Fast Little Airplanes, ~ $3700 (and worth every penny) but it's hard when I'm not sure about the rest of the project. I guess the "sweat equity" approach would be hard also. If you could point me at a spar design I could build and use in a Q-200 I would appreciate it. Mike On 9/3/2014 10:28 PM, JMasal@...
[Q-LIST] wrote:
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Re: Q2 LS1 Carbon spar?
Dave Covert <davecove@...>
I don't know anything short of serious tort reform that would stop the seeming obligatory litigation that follows every unfortunate event. I am not working on a Q at this time, a CH-750 has my attention at the moment (I want to be able to take off from my own 10 acres). A Q-200 is next because I want to go fast. :)
Dave
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:23 PM, JMasal@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
--
Thank you for your time, ɘvɒⱭ
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Re: Q2 LS1 Carbon spar?
JMasal@...
This "stream of commerce" concept is a valuable piece of information. I aint never heerd of it before. Hmmmmmm
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Only one wee concern: I was involved in a nuisance suit and while it had no merit I STILL had to come up with some $$$ and some legal counsel to beat it off and those $$$'s could be used elsewhere.
Dave how far along are you with your project currentlY?
Note Jim Doyle's testing tips. This subject was thoroughly treated in QTALK back issues almost eons ago.
j.
-----Original Message----- From: Jon Matcho jmatcho@... [Q-LIST] To: Q-LIST Sent: Thu, Sep 4, 2014 4:22 pm Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Q2 LS1 Carbon spar? Dave Covert wrote:
I understand that is exactly how these things got done in the first place at RAF and QAC: build it strong and light, and then break it. My plan for an LS1 would be the same, but to look at prior Q2 attempts as well as the spar designs and layup schedules
in plans for long canards (ex. Long-EZ and Defiant), and just make a best guess (different designs for the TriQ vs. conventional of course). Build it. Figure out the 1G weight at the center, and test to as many Gs as is necessary (4, 6, or more...), or to
failure and calculate the Gs from there (failure would be the first sign/sound of anything breaking/popping, etc.).
Dave Covert wrote:
You should then warn the buyer about every single nut, bolt, screw, wood, epoxy, and layup put in the plane and whether layup #453 was set at 42 degrees instead of 45. Selling an experimental homebuilt aircraft, or certified, should simply
involve a blanket statement removing the seller from all liability, forcing the buyer to accept responsibility for their actions. Unless you know something is outright wrong or dangerous, one would not be required to disclose such details. However, as a
buyer, I would certainly appreciate how you came up with your spar :-)
Actually, considering all the work required here and considering my conversation with Richard at Fast Little Airplanes, I personally would start saving for their spar. Regardless, I completely support and would greatly appreciate someone
else doing all this work for me as another option. I would buy those plans for... $100 or more.
Jon Matcho
From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...> on behalf of Dave Covert davecove@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2014 10:05 AM To: Q-LIST@... Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Digest Number 5243
An amateur builder isn't held to the same liability standards as a commercial business. It has to do with the 'stream of commerce'. If your intention is to build airplanes and sell them, you are entering the 'stream of commerce' and are held to much higher
standards of liability than a true amateur builder. A true amateur has two primary areas of liability exposure; negligence and failure to warn. Testing a self-designed spar to failure is not negligent; building one and saying 'that looks about right' is. Obviously
you must warn a buyer of the nature of the spar to clear the other issue.
Dave
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Re: Digest Number 5243
Jim D
Back in the mid 80's my partner and I
built a LS 1 canard with a carbon box spar It was flown three
times and then due to the conversation about the handling on the
ground and the almost forbidden differential braking at the time
we converted to tri gear. I had 930 hours on the canard when it
was sold most of which was on the tri gear. We load tested the
canard to 7 Gs as I recall but we made a saddle to support the
center section to prevent it from being crushed by the supports at
the fuselage points. I had plans for the canard that were given to
two or three people in the US and one in Canada. I no longer have
the write up or the blue prints as I threw it all away a few years
ago. My partner Larry Weishaar was a structural engineer and did
most of the design calculations. Sadly Larry is gone now. All this
is to say that if you know what you are doing and are careful with
the construction it can be done! The emphasis is on the knowledge
and construction.
Be careful out there. Jim Doyle On 9/4/2014 9:05 AM, Dave Covert davecove@... [Q-LIST] wrote:
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