Date   

Oshkosh 2016

Kevin Sheeley
 

I made it home safely from Oshkosh to West Palm Beach, FL.


Kevin (Q200, dragger, O200, Jim-Bob 6 pack)


Interesting/disturbing discovery

Jay Scheevel
 

I happened to be looking for some info online and I came across the POH for the KR-2S on the krbuilder.org website.

http://www.krbuilder.org/Documents/KR-2S%20Operating%20Manual.doc

This document had weight and balance and also some performance charts that looked VERY familiar. I had a look at the Q2-POH from QAC and found exactly the same charts. I mean exactly!. I am not sure if the KR-2S document that I found was an "official" KR-2S operators manual, but it looks like it to me.

I found it a little disturbing that someone would just lift the charts from the Q-2 POH and paste them into the a different aircraft's operating handbook as if they belonged there. Especially given the distinct differences between the aerodynamic behavior of the two designs.

They also had the following quote in the handbook:
"Performance information has been derived from actual flight tests on the KR-2S prototype and corrected to standard atmospheric conditions at 1100 pounds maximum gross weight"

The Q-2 POH reads as follows (referencing the exact same charts):
"Performance information has been derived from actual flight tests on the Q2 prototype and corrected to standard atmospheric conditions at 1000 pounds maximum gross weight"

Which one is the counterfeit?  I suspect the KR-2S, since it is dated 2001...or maybe both?.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building



Re: Service ceiling

Jay Scheevel
 

Also, forgot to mention. That modeling is for the Q2. The Tri-Q is slower still.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Service ceiling

Jay Scheevel
 

Here's the plot.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Service ceiling

Jay Scheevel
 

Jerry is right.

You could talk to Jean Paul Chevalier in Albuquerque area who flew a Tri-Q200 (O-200 engine) for a few years in Moriarity NM, which has a field elevation of around 6000'. Paul Spackman in Casper (around 5400' field elevation) which an original GU canard Q-2 with a Jabiru 3300 engine, which is lighter than an O-200 and well over 100 HP. That seems to be sufficient for him. He has a light airframe. I am installing a Jab 3300 in my Tri-Q, but I have not flown yet, my field elevation (KGJT is over 4500'). I expect it will have sufficient power.

I would not consider using lower than a nominal 100 HP engine in the mountain west. Even if you can take-off, you will have to fly at higher and higher AOA once you get to altitude and your airspeed and handling will be very doggy. A laminar flow wing (the canard, which does most of the lifting) is notoriously mushy at high AOA so it will not be a fun airplane to fly.

The Revmaster 2100DQ is nominally a 65 HP engine. This is at sea level. At 6000', this would be 53 HP and at 10000' that would drop to 45 HP.

I am attaching a plot from my computer modeling which shows performance of the Q-2 at 900 pounds gross weight (basically, just pilot and fuel), and 45 HP gets you about 125 MPH in level flight...pretty doggy for a Q-2. You would be cruising with a 4 degree AOA.

Changing to a 100 HP engine gets you 70 HP at 10000', so at least you can fly 145-150 MPH and AOA of 1-2 degrees at that altitude.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Re: Service ceiling

ryan goodman
 

Hmm, I would be super curious what Larry was running and what kind of climb rate he had at that altitude. Or where it dipped below 100ft/min



Re: Service ceiling

Mike Dwyer
 

I would agree.  Larry K took his Q200 to 22,000 feet one hot day over Atlanta.  I've been at 14,500 and still climbing 500 fpm with two people.
But let's see what the Q2 folks say.

Mike Q200 N3QP


On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Jerry Marstall jerrylm1986@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Replace it with an O200.  You will need the extra power.


On Fri, Jul 29, 2016, 8:11 AM elboy0712@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Can I ask everyone what their demonstrated service ceiling has been? I just bought a tri-q that I will be getting back in the air over the coming months, but live in Colorado at almost 7k with a 14k wall to my west. So I guess its a 2 part question. I have the revmaster 2100d with upgraded cylinders and prop I'm unsure of until next week.


1. What is your demonstrated service ceiling

2. What kind of climb rate are you enjoying over 7k (ideally 7k - 15k if you have done it)



Re: Service ceiling

ryan goodman
 

Long term I will definitely be upgrading. But I guess at the immediate moment I am just trying to see what everyone else is experiencing with their particular setup. This way I can get some ideas on what to expect.  


Re: Service ceiling

Jerry Marstall
 

Replace it with an O200.  You will need the extra power.


On Fri, Jul 29, 2016, 8:11 AM elboy0712@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Can I ask everyone what their demonstrated service ceiling has been? I just bought a tri-q that I will be getting back in the air over the coming months, but live in Colorado at almost 7k with a 14k wall to my west. So I guess its a 2 part question. I have the revmaster 2100d with upgraded cylinders and prop I'm unsure of until next week.


1. What is your demonstrated service ceiling

2. What kind of climb rate are you enjoying over 7k (ideally 7k - 15k if you have done it)


Service ceiling

ryan goodman
 

Can I ask everyone what their demonstrated service ceiling has been? I just bought a tri-q that I will be getting back in the air over the coming months, but live in Colorado at almost 7k with a 14k wall to my west. So I guess its a 2 part question. I have the revmaster 2100d with upgraded cylinders and prop I'm unsure of until next week.


1. What is your demonstrated service ceiling

2. What kind of climb rate are you enjoying over 7k (ideally 7k - 15k if you have done it)


Re: Beer, food an Quickies.

ryan goodman
 

Can I ask everyone what their demonstrated service ceiling is


On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 10:21 AM, jay@... [Q-LIST]
wrote:


Re: Beer, food an Quickies.

Jay Scheevel
 


Sam's airplane is on the CNN homepage

Bruce McCormack
 


Re: Quickie Article on Sam

Tristan Vincent-Philpot <trisvp@...>
 

Single Seat Q200? Or is that just a media mistake?


Tristan


On Jul 27, 2016, at 7:29 AM, Mike Dwyer q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:



Re: Beer, food an Quickies.

ryan goodman
 

Darn website still doesnt have the results published.


On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 5:13 PM, "JMasal@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:


 
Hoist a couple for me.
After 30 plus straight this split in my chest will keep me from the second in a row.
Dont wanna do this no more
Have a great time gentlemen!!!!

j.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]
To: Quickie List
Sent: Wed, Jul 27, 2016 2:36 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fwd: Beer, food an Quickies.

 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Jul 27, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Beer, food an Quickies.
To: "John Cartledge" <urecomps@...>
Cc:

Quickie Beer tent gathering tonight. From the bus stop on Waukau, go west almost to the museum. Look for a floating balloon on the north side of the road. There is a beer tent directly underneath the balloon.  Feel free to forward this important message.
Sent via wireless Gizmo.



Re: Beer, food an Quickies.

JMasal@...
 

Hoist a couple for me.
After 30 plus straight this split in my chest will keep me from the second in a row.
Dont wanna do this no more
Have a great time gentlemen!!!!

j.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]
To: Quickie List
Sent: Wed, Jul 27, 2016 2:36 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] Fwd: Beer, food an Quickies.

 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Jul 27, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Beer, food an Quickies.
To: "John Cartledge" <urecomps@...>
Cc:

Quickie Beer tent gathering tonight. From the bus stop on Waukau, go west almost to the museum. Look for a floating balloon on the north side of the road. There is a beer tent directly underneath the balloon.  Feel free to forward this important message.
Sent via wireless Gizmo.


Re: Beer, food an Quickies.

One Sky Dog
 

In transit do not drink all the beer


On Jul 27, 2016, at 5:12 PM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

Now.

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


On Jul 27, 2016 3:03 PM, "Charlie oneskydog@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Time?


On Jul 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Jul 27, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Beer, food an Quickies.
To: "John Cartledge" <urecomps@...>
Cc:

Quickie Beer tent gathering tonight. From the bus stop on Waukau, go west almost to the museum. Look for a floating balloon on the north side of the road. There is a beer tent directly underneath the balloon.  Feel free to forward this important message.

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


Re: Beer, food an Quickies.

Sam Hoskins
 

Now.

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


On Jul 27, 2016 3:03 PM, "Charlie oneskydog@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Time?


On Jul 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Jul 27, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Beer, food an Quickies.
To: "John Cartledge" <urecomps@...>
Cc:

Quickie Beer tent gathering tonight. From the bus stop on Waukau, go west almost to the museum. Look for a floating balloon on the north side of the road. There is a beer tent directly underneath the balloon.  Feel free to forward this important message.

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


Re: Beer, food an Quickies.

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

6;00



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Charlie oneskydog@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 7/27/16 3:03 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Fwd: Beer, food an Quickies.

 

Time?


On Jul 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Jul 27, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Beer, food an Quickies.
To: "John Cartledge" <urecomps@...>
Cc:

Quickie Beer tent gathering tonight. From the bus stop on Waukau, go west almost to the museum. Look for a floating balloon on the north side of the road. There is a beer tent directly underneath the balloon.  Feel free to forward this important message.

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


Re: Beer, food an Quickies.

One Sky Dog
 

Time?


On Jul 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Sam Hoskins" <sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Jul 27, 2016 2:25 PM
Subject: Beer, food an Quickies.
To: "John Cartledge" <urecomps@...>
Cc:

Quickie Beer tent gathering tonight. From the bus stop on Waukau, go west almost to the museum. Look for a floating balloon on the north side of the road. There is a beer tent directly underneath the balloon.  Feel free to forward this important message.

Sent via wireless Gizmo.

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