Date   

Re: Service ceiling

Jay Scheevel
 

Sam,

You are a man of few words :-)

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Service ceiling

Sam Kittle
 

 

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:30 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Service ceiling

 

 

Thanks Jay. I was hoping that would be the case. Gives me some insight as to how much stock to put in the numbers for future planning.


Re: Service ceiling

ryan goodman
 

Thanks Jay. I was hoping that would be the case. Gives me some insight as to how much stock to put in the numbers for future planning.


Re: Service ceiling

Jay Scheevel
 

I can tell you that most will confirm that those curves are close for currently flying aircraft except Sam Hoskins' and maybe Reg Clarke's.

Reg is running a turbocharged Subaru engine and is probably getting north of 130 HP. He can confirm, but I think this is accurate.

Sam has so much reduced his drag and tweaked his O-200 engine and prop to the point that his performance curve lies very much above what I sent you. He averaged 216+ MPH on the Airventure cup this year and I would guess his WOT RPM when racing is close to 3100 giving him maybe 120 HP, but this is a closely guarded secret, I'm sure ;-)

My chart is based on modeling that was calibrated directly to rigorous flight test data for the Q-200 prototype N81QA (had a stock O-200 engine) based on Tom Huffman's flight tests of N81QA performed in 1984.

If you want more info on my modeling, you can go to: http://www.quickheads.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2402&Itemid=801

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Service ceiling

ryan goodman
 

So everyone is being very generous with posting their personal experience with their individual setups as far as performance goes. Earlier Jay posted a performance chart for HP vs. speed for level flight. Im curious if you all find that your performance is pretty close to the calculated numbers?


Re: Service ceiling

Jay Scheevel
 

faa.gov n-number lookup.


Re: Service ceiling

Jay Scheevel
 

Richard,
Maybe you should sell Ryan one of your fancy new UL engines! I am sure that would make it into a very nice flying machine.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Original Q-1 Prop Airfoil, Diameter and Pitch

Terry Crouch
 

QAC offered 3 props, 42/27, 42/30, 44/27. Cowley was the manufacturer. No idea about the airfoil.  

Terry


-----Original Message-----
From: riang1954@... [Q-LIST]
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2016 3:48 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] Original Q-1 Prop Airfoil, Diameter and Pitch

 
Does anyone have the specs for the original Q-1 prop on the Onan engine?

Thanks,
Roger


Re: Service ceiling

mylittlemgb@...
 

Jay you are correct Foss was the builder. The FAA'S website isn't up to date yet we did get the plane reregistered and ownership transferred.


Re: Service ceiling

ryan goodman
 

Interesting. How did you find out the info?


Re: Service ceiling

Jay Scheevel
 

Did a little sleuthing and I think this is the airplane. Built by Weston Foss, A/W date 1987.  Registration appears to have expired in 2015, which means it will have to be re-registered. Not really sure how that is done.  At the minimum, I think would need a FAA Aircraft Bill of Sale signed by Steven Vandergrift, since it was last registered to him.

Type Reservation Hold Mode S Code 51373147 Reserved Date 05/19/2015 Renewal Date None Purge Date 05/19/2020 Pending Number Change None Date Change Authorized None Reserving Party Name CANCELLED/NOT ASSIGNED Street None City None State Zip Code None County Country

Deregistered Aircraft

Deregistered Aircraft 1 of 1 Aircraft Description Serial Number 2313 Certificate Issue Date 11/07/1997 Manufacturer Name FOSS WESTON E Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 51373147 Model Q-2 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A5F667 Year Manufacturer None Cancel Date 05/19/2015 Reason for Cancellation Expiration Export To None Type Registration Individual     Aircraft Registration prior to Deregistration Name VANDERGRIFT STEPHEN Street 2605 OVERHOLT TRL City SEVIERVILLE State TENNESSEE Zip Code 37862-7934 County SEVIER Country UNITED STATES   Deregistered Airworthiness Engine Manufacturer REVMASTER Classification Experimental Engine Model 52550 Category Amateur Built A/W Date 01/16/1987  


Re: Service Ceiling

Jay Scheevel
 

I am installing a Jabiru J3300, significantly modified, with upgrades from Rotec Aerosport and CAMIT (both in Australia).

There are a number of slightly used J3300's that are available now and may be quite reasonably priced, since quite a few Jab owners have chosen to replace theirs with the CAMIT 3300.

The CAMIT is a bolt-on replacement for the Jab, and is pretty much the same engine with the exception that it has some rigorously engineered and tested changes to the Jab components addressing most if not all of the identified shortcomings of the Jab that have proven unreliable under hard use. CAMIT has always had joint ownership of the Jab design and used to be the sole supplier of parts and completed engines before they (Jabiru) decided to outsource to cheaper suppliers. CAMIT decided to go out on their own and offer complete engines featuring their upgraded version of the Jab design. They control all sourcing, manufacturing and testing in-house. According to all I have heard from (in addition to personal experience), CAMIT has brilliant customer service and have I have not heard a peep about any problems with their engines. I hear some have more than 1000 hours on them now in South Africa with no problems.

That said, properly cared for Jabiru's have also proven very reliable, if you stay on top of the care and feeding and maintenance checks and make sure your cooling is adequate. You may be able to find a bargain on a used Jab if you look around. They are capable of producing 105 HP at 85% power, (@2750 rpm ~5000 ft density altitude) and are significantly lighter than the O-200.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Re: Oshkosh 2016

Jay Scheevel
 

Reg was there too?? Man you guys are making me feel bad. What a great turnout at OSH! Wish I had been there. I will shoot for next year. Not sure if I can make field of dreams this year. Ca$hflow is a very tough for me this year with the multiyear slump in oil prices.

Had a nice visit to my shop from Charlie and Bob Johnson on their way back home from OSH. I kept them longer than I should have, since they still had to make it over to a campground in Utah before dark. Sorry Charlie if you had to set camp in the dark!. I appreciated the visit and having them look over my project. Did not realize that Bob is also an EAA tech counselor. He told me he would write up a report and send to me. I gave him a copy of my current wiring diagram for homework. Thanks Bob. Always good to connect with old tandem-wing friends, wherever that may be.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Re: Oshkosh 2016

Bruce Crain
 


Oshkosh 2016

Reg Clarke <airryder@...>
 

Made it to brothers in Helena , on up to Canada Monday

Sincerely. Reg Clarke


Re: Service Ceiling

Rich Gillen
 

4 Strokes
O-200(100hp), New $22,000+
Corvair(110hp), New $??,???+, and weighs more than O-200.
Rotax 912(100hp), New $18,000+ to $25,000
 
Rotax 914(115hp) Turbo, New $34,000+
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Strokes (Lighter Engines, but with lower TBO's depending on Rpm's used, but 1/4 to 1/3 the cost)
 
Skidoo/Rotax 670 (92hp at 6400rpms) = In Sled use, Stock 670 112hp at 7750rpms. $8000
 
Made 1993 to 1999. 1998-99 there was a 670HO 20hp more than Standard 670 at same 7750rpms.
 
A Skidoo/Rotax 670 with a Turbo, with 11 lbs of boost Dynoed 205.4hp at 7750rpms on the Dyno, At 6750rpms, what the 618UL(74.6hp) was run at, it made 163.4hp.
 
A Skidoo/Rotax 670 with a Turbo, with 9 lbs of boost Dynoed 184.3hp at 7750rpms on the Dyno, At 6750rpms, what the 618UL was run at, it made 145.9hp.
 
A Skidoo/Rotax 670 with a Turbo, with 7 lbs of boost Dynoed 174.1hp at 7750rpms on the Dyno, At 6750rpms, what the 618UL was run at, it made 140.5hp.
 
Some 670 Big Bores that are possible.
Rotax 720(??hp at 6400rpms) estimate 118hp, with 4lbs of Boost with a Turbo, 167 hp is possible.
Rotax 740(??hp at 6400rpms) estimate 122hp, with 4lbs of Boost with a Turbo, 172 hp is possible.
Rotax 748(??hp at 6400rpms) estimate 123hp, with 4lbs of Boost with a Turbo, 174 hp is possible.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any Engine, that can use lower over all rpms, will last longer. A Stock 670 with a Turbo, if built right, and using just 4lbs of Boost can make 130hp at 6500rpms, 120hp at 6000rpms, (110hp at 5500rpms), 100hp at Max 5000rpms, 90hp at 4500rpms, 80hp at 4000rpms.
 
There are a few 582UL's and 503UL's, using Max 5500rpms  flying, that have 1300+ hours on them, with just a Decarbon every 200-250hrs. With the New Synthetic 2 Stroke Oils, and Ceramic Top Coated pistons they are seeing 700+ hrs without a decarbon.
 
If your going to be taking off, flying from Higher Altitudes, you may want to add a Turbo, and Fuel Injection to any of these motors that don't have it. Fuel Injection can also eliminate Carb Icing problems and give better GPH. A Turbo can add up to 40% more power, depending on amount of Boost used.
 
Since most Q2's require minimum 65+hp, and I consider +10hp, so 75hp to be minimum, and most People do use the O-200(100hp) on them, you do have your limits, based on HP used, and Takeoff Altitude. There is some Mods for the O-200, Higher Compression Pistons, Cam, and I think you can go one size bigger on the Intake Valve, but I have never seen posted the HP increase you get doing each Mod. I would guess in the, 106hp to 120hp range depending on the Mods used. An O-200 with a Turbo, with just 4 lbs of Boost could make 135hp at 2750rpms if built right.
 
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 91hp at 3,000ft
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 88hp at 4,000ft
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 85hp at 5,000ft
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 82hp at 6,000ft
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 79hp at 7,000ft
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 76hp at 8,000ft
----------------------------------------------------- SAFE ABOVE ---------------------------------------------------------
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 73hp at 9,000ft
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 70hp at 10,000ft
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 67hp at 11,000ft
----------------------------------------------------- MARGINAL ABOVE ------------------------------------------------------------------
A 100hp@2750rpms  O-200 Engine rated at Sea Level is only 64hp at 12,000ft
 
Just My 2 Cents
Rich
 
==========================================================================
 

1b

Re: Service ceiling

Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:56 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"ryan goodman" elboy0712

Awesome, that's exactly what I'm after here. Actual experience with a similar setup and hopefully some numbers on fpm climb over 7k and ceiling. Thanks Jerry. How dod you crack the block?


Re: Service ceiling

ryan goodman
 

Wow,,, thats nuts.... at what altitude did you hit the 100fpm line?


Re: Service ceiling

Jim Patillo
 

I've flown my Q200 to 19,500' over the Sierra Mountains a couple of times. It's hanging on the prop at that altitude.

Jim P.


Re: Oshkosh 2016

Bruce Crain
 


Re: Service ceiling

Bruce Crain
 

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