Date   

Re: lowering landing speed

Norm Parmley <norm_parm@...>
 

Jay,
Yes, Colorado is a bit far for me to drive. I have a nice who occasionally travels to Colorado. She likes your new "weed" laws. I'm not into that sort of thing. However, I could catch a ride there, and demand I drive back......
I'll check the links out, and thanks again.



From: "jay@... [Q-LIST]"
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2016 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] lowering landing speed

 
Hi Norm,

I am in western Colorado, so not very close to you. I do not have a build log online, per se. I have a video channel that shows time-lapse of a number of my build steps. Mike Dwyer has a build log from from his construction eons ago and Sam Hoskins also has a nice blog with a lot of info. I also did an aerodynamic study of the Q recently that may be of interest to you. Links for all of these are below.

Cheers,
Jay
Mike's site: Mike Dwyer's Q200 Site
 


Sams' Blog
My Quickie Q-200
 

My YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBuOe9eOkMkvrmaz2vjUmXkl-JqGj54M_


 



Re: lowering landing speed

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Norm,

I am in western Colorado, so not very close to you. I do not have a build log online, per se. I have a video channel that shows time-lapse of a number of my build steps. Mike Dwyer has a build log from from his construction eons ago and Sam Hoskins also has a nice blog with a lot of info. I also did an aerodynamic study of the Q recently that may be of interest to you. Links for all of these are below.

Cheers,
Jay
Mike's site: Mike Dwyer's Q200 Site

 



Sams' Blog
My Quickie Q-200

 


My YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBuOe9eOkMkvrmaz2vjUmXkl-JqGj54M_


 


Re: lowering landing speed

Norm Parmley <norm_parm@...>
 

Jay,
Thanks for the quick education. I do know this subject, and a lot more have been hashed out several times in the past. However, the net does not archive all of it's past for quick retrieval, and reference. I hope to start a Q200 into a TRI-Q in the early spring. If I can clean out the garages enough!!!

What state are you located in, and if near enough can I come by and see your build? Also, do you have a build log going on  the net? I live in eastern North Carolina town of New Bern.

Regards,
Norm P.



From: "jay@... [Q-LIST]"
To: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2016 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] lowering landing speed

 
You can search "Waddelow Canard" and get the information relevant to Bruce's wing.  Imraan also has the extended Waddelow Canard (and wing), but he is still most comfortable landing up near 90 MPH. The way to get lower landing speeds is to have a plane that is designed for that (re: Phil's snarky response).

Canard designs will always land (and take off) faster because of the inability to fully stall all of the wing area. In fact, on the Q-2, even the canard does not fully stall, it just reaches a point where it loses the battle of pitch authority to the main wing causing the aircraft to pitch down (pitch buck). So in order to get the full benefit of lots of induced drag from all of the wing area, and finally turbulent drag (full stall at landing), you will need a more conventional layout. That is just plane physics.

If you like the Q-2 layout, but still want it to land slower, you should look into getting a dragonfly. It lands slower because it has more wing area/longer wings. It also flies slower. No such thing as a free lunch.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building



Re: lowering landing speed

Jay Scheevel
 

My mother is very happy today. Life long Cubs fan. So was her mother, but she never got to see a championship. Congrats to the Cubbies.


Re: lowering landing speed

Jay Scheevel
 

You can search "Waddelow Canard" and get the information relevant to Bruce's wing.  Imraan also has the extended Waddelow Canard (and wing), but he is still most comfortable landing up near 90 MPH. The way to get lower landing speeds is to have a plane that is designed for that (re: Phil's snarky response).

Canard designs will always land (and take off) faster because of the inability to fully stall all of the wing area. In fact, on the Q-2, even the canard does not fully stall, it just reaches a point where it loses the battle of pitch authority to the main wing causing the aircraft to pitch down (pitch buck). So in order to get the full benefit of lots of induced drag from all of the wing area, and finally turbulent drag (full stall at landing), you will need a more conventional layout. That is just plane physics.

If you like the Q-2 layout, but still want it to land slower, you should look into getting a dragonfly. It lands slower because it has more wing area/longer wings. It also flies slower. No such thing as a free lunch.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Re: Noisy Wheels/Brakes and weight and balance

Martin Skiby
 

Vic,

I am not aware of any required changes to use the GU canard with an 0200, however the CG range is much more critical for the GU and you MUSTS use the VG's on it.

Also I understand that they do not like rough terrain.  The Q200 I have with a GU was flown 500 hrs before it was removed from service so I am confident it can be done safely in the correct environment.



Re: Noisy Wheels/Brakes and weight and balance

Martin Skiby
 

Jim you are correct.  This was Mark's Q200 and what a nice plane it is.  It was outside and inside at Truckee and actually shows little signs of weather at all.  Even the canopy cleaned up very nicely.  Yes we have tap tested the wings very well and are confident that they are good.  Yes I was able to meet with Mark and get the fuel injected motor and systems.

We are doing quite a bit of checking and safety oversight on the plane and so far we have been very pleased.  Mark did an awesome job on this plane and I just could not stand to see it sitting on the ramp up there.  There is a long story of what we had to do to convince the airport to let us acquire it, and we even got Mark to say OK after we talked and he was convinced we knew a few things about the Q2.

I increased the size of the battery considerably and it appears that the RV lure may get to stay in the tackle box!!! 

Thanks for reaching out and sorry I could not take you call last evening.  I will call you today.


Re: lowering landing speed

Q plusTwo
 

In fairness, increasing the wing and canard to reduce landing speed has been done already; the resulting airplane is called a "Dragonfly"!


Re: lowering landing speed

britmcman99
 

Hello Ryan:  I apologize for what I wrote earlier.  It was not meant to be a "non-answer". So here is the answer for those who are not able to read between the lines.  If one wishes to have a plane that lands at slower landing speeds then they should consider a different airplane. The slow landing device for the Quickie has been a point of discussion on this list since the beginning and no inventor in this scientific community has has yet to invent it. There is a different Yahoo Groups list entitled Q-Performance that is reserved for topics that deviate from the proven flightworthy Quickie. I will be happy to install the device once one of you "serious" people invent it. 

Phil Lankford






On Nov 2, 2016, at 11:08 PM, ryan goodman elboy0712@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I love when people offer smart ass non answers


 

Simple two step solution for lowering your landing speeds:

Step 1 - remove O-200 power plant. 

Step 2 - install O-200 power plant into Cessna 150 airframe. 

Easy Smeezy!

Phil Lankford 


On Nov 2, 2016, at 10:02 PM, ryan goodman elboy0712@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Sam, what are the up/down sides of the extended wing? Also, what is standard length for a tri?


 

.  If it was viable over the last 35 years it would have been developed.

If you have a Tri-Q you can extend the wings like Bruce Crain's (for sale by the way).

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


On Nov 2, 2016 6:31 PM, "norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Has anyone tried using wing slays on the canard, and wing to lower the landing speed? Has anyone inceased the size of the canard, and wing to reduce landing speed?



Re: lowering landing speed

Bruce Crain
 


Re: lowering landing speed

Norm Parmley <norm_parm@...>
 

Is there any data on Bruce Crain's changes available?



From: "Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]"
To: Quickie List
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2016 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] lowering landing speed

 
.  If it was viable over the last 35 years it would have been developed.
If you have a Tri-Q you can extend the wings like Bruce Crain's (for sale by the way).
Sam
Sent via wireless Gizmo.

On Nov 2, 2016 6:31 PM, "norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 
Has anyone tried using wing slays on the canard, and wing to lower the landing speed? Has anyone inceased the size of the canard, and wing to reduce landing speed?




Re: Noisy Wheels/Brakes and weight and balance

victor taylor
 

Can anyone tell me if there are mods required to the GU canard for the O-200? Do I need to make it stiffer?

Vic Taylor
Irvington, Alabama


On Thursday, November 3, 2016 5:06 AM, "logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:


 
Martin,

Sounds like you bought Mark Summers Q200? He has the only Q200
I know of with a GU canard.  Also we refer to that big assed weight on the tail wheel as an RV lure. 😋  

Did you get the fuel injected electronic ignition 0200 with it? I found that engine for him originally. Are you aware of the crack on the inside of the hub on the Catto Prop?

This plane has been sitting on the ramp in Truckee for over a year.  You should do a good tap test over the wing structures. 

This will be a nice plane for you once you get it back together. 

Regards,
Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200




Re: lowering landing speed

ryan goodman
 

I love when people offer smart ass non answers


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Phil Lankford britmcman@... [Q-LIST]
wrote:
 

Simple two step solution for lowering your landing speeds:

Step 1 - remove O-200 power plant. 

Step 2 - install O-200 power plant into Cessna 150 airframe. 

Easy Smeezy!

Phil Lankford 


On Nov 2, 2016, at 10:02 PM, ryan goodman elboy0712@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Sam, what are the up/down sides of the extended wing? Also, what is standard length for a tri?


 

.  If it was viable over the last 35 years it would have been developed.

If you have a Tri-Q you can extend the wings like Bruce Crain's (for sale by the way).

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


On Nov 2, 2016 6:31 PM, "norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Has anyone tried using wing slays on the canard, and wing to lower the landing speed? Has anyone inceased the size of the canard, and wing to reduce landing speed?



Re: lowering landing speed

britmcman99
 

Simple two step solution for lowering your landing speeds:

Step 1 - remove O-200 power plant. 

Step 2 - install O-200 power plant into Cessna 150 airframe. 

Easy Smeezy!

Phil Lankford 


On Nov 2, 2016, at 10:02 PM, ryan goodman elboy0712@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Sam, what are the up/down sides of the extended wing? Also, what is standard length for a tri?


 

.  If it was viable over the last 35 years it would have been developed.

If you have a Tri-Q you can extend the wings like Bruce Crain's (for sale by the way).

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


On Nov 2, 2016 6:31 PM, "norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Has anyone tried using wing slays on the canard, and wing to lower the landing speed? Has anyone inceased the size of the canard, and wing to reduce landing speed?



Re: lowering landing speed

Sam Hoskins
 

Jump in Bruce.

Go Cubs Go!

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


On Nov 3, 2016 12:16 AM, "ryan goodman elboy0712@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Sam, what are the up/down sides of the extended wing? Also, what is standard length for a tri?


 

.  If it was viable over the last 35 years it would have been developed.

If you have a Tri-Q you can extend the wings like Bruce Crain's (for sale by the way).

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


On Nov 2, 2016 6:31 PM, "norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Has anyone tried using wing slays on the canard, and wing to lower the landing speed? Has anyone inceased the size of the canard, and wing to reduce landing speed?



Re: lowering landing speed

ryan goodman
 

Sam, what are the up/down sides of the extended wing? Also, what is standard length for a tri?


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:29 PM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]
wrote:
 

.  If it was viable over the last 35 years it would have been developed.

If you have a Tri-Q you can extend the wings like Bruce Crain's (for sale by the way).

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


On Nov 2, 2016 6:31 PM, "norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Has anyone tried using wing slays on the canard, and wing to lower the landing speed? Has anyone inceased the size of the canard, and wing to reduce landing speed?



Re: lowering landing speed

Sam Hoskins
 

.  If it was viable over the last 35 years it would have been developed.

If you have a Tri-Q you can extend the wings like Bruce Crain's (for sale by the way).

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.


On Nov 2, 2016 6:31 PM, "norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Has anyone tried using wing slays on the canard, and wing to lower the landing speed? Has anyone inceased the size of the canard, and wing to reduce landing speed?



Re: Noisy Wheels/Brakes and weight and balance

Jim Patillo
 

Martin,

Sounds like you bought Mark Summers Q200? He has the only Q200
I know of with a GU canard.  Also we refer to that big assed weight on the tail wheel as an RV lure. 😋  

Did you get the fuel injected electronic ignition 0200 with it? I found that engine for him originally. Are you aware of the crack on the inside of the hub on the Catto Prop?

This plane has been sitting on the ramp in Truckee for over a year.  You should do a good tap test over the wing structures. 

This will be a nice plane for you once you get it back together. 

Regards,
Jim Patillo
N46JP Q200


Re: lowering landing speed

norm_parm@...
 

Slats vs fat fingers


Re: lowering landing speed

bwtaudiowerks@...
 

Winglets maybe?

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