Date   

Re: Foam

JMasal@...
 

A nice liberal idea except that an unsuspecting amateur following another experimenting amateur can get killed or damaged.
So... the experimenter ought to be required to vett himself with his background of experience,engineering or otherwise and report
on actual +or-- experience not just speculate for others to emulate.
I'd like to see just ONE speculator finish and fly an airplane (I've been waiting 30+ years), with modern materials and ideas.


let everyone and anyone comment about anything Q related. Let's not be precious about it,  the group needs livening up.




Sent from Samsung tablet


Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Martin Skiby
 

Great,  Thanks,

We are good to go it seems.  Thanks Jay.  Your the best.  Let me know if you want to pull the trigger and buy the TriQ for training!!!  hahahaha


New file uploaded to Q-LIST

Q-LIST@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Q-LIST
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File : /Martins_Weight_and_Balance/Martin_Skiby_WB_worksheet.xls
Uploaded by : jay_scheevel <jay@...>
Description :


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Q-LIST/files/Martins_Weight_and_Balance/Martin_Skiby_WB_worksheet.xls


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Regards,


jay_scheevel <jay@...>


Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Martin,

Sent you the corrected version offline and am replacing the one in the files section with the correct version that has the GU limit posted on it, along with the LS-1 limits.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Spring Fling

ΕΔΔΥ . <overlordmustafa@...>
 

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:30 PM, 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I can't get my guitar or piano in the Q!  I would have to build a really big pod!  Somebody bring a guitar and I will attempt it.  No my booking agent doesn't have to know!  It will be "Pro-Bono".
"Rock the Hanger Bubba"!
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "jay@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Spring Fling
Date: 13 Feb 2017 17:29:24 +0000

 

I am sure the turnout will be much higher if Bruce can promise he will sing a solo in Kevin's hangar :-)

Could not resist.  Small but finite chance I will be there.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building

 



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New file uploaded to Q-LIST

Q-LIST@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
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File : /Martin_Skiby_WB_worksheet.xls
Uploaded by : mls6220 <mskiby@...>
Description : Updated Weight and Balance Sheet 2-13-17


You can access this file at the URL:
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Regards,


mls6220 <mskiby@...>


Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Martin Skiby
 

Jay,  I made some adjustments to your sheet.  Main and header tank were swapped I believe.  I also added the GU canard to the chart.  Uploaded for your review.

Thanks again for the help.  Looks like we are in good shape on the weights.


Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Martin Skiby
 

Your sheet is so much better!,,

Thanks Jay!!


Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Martin Skiby
 

I sent you the Excel sheet.  I have done that already, but did not attach it to the numbers earlier.

Thanks Jay.  


Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Martin,

Send me your GU chart and I will embed in the spreadsheet and put it back on the files section.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Jay Scheevel
 

The chart that is in the spreadsheet is posted on top of a scanned image of the standard LS-1 cg chart. You can "ungroup" that graph and replace the image with the one you have. Just stretch the graph dimensions to overlay the image that you import, and it should work just right.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Open-source / community certification-like analysis of homebuilt air

Rob de Bie
 

Hi Brad,

It's a lot of work, and involves many disciplines
from the field of engineering. So it would be
best to do this with a team. Cross-checking and
discussion of the results would be other benefits.

The main point would be to have the results
public, so anyone can consult it, study the
calculations, and see whether his aircraft still is within the design envelope.

The specific example of the design speeds is a
difficult one. FAR-23 code (23.335) only has
minimum values, the manufacturer can select
higher ones. You also have to match them to the operational speeds.

But: I'm probably day-dreaming, since nothing like this seems to exist.

Rob

At 17:37 13 02 2017, you wrote:


Maybe I'm missing something but one does have
all the information. Or at least it seems that
way to me. You have all the information needed
to do design analysis (i.e. plans, actual built
planes to test with, relics to do destructive testing with, etc.)

Maybe I don't understand but one should be able
to derive the V-speeds appropriately.

-brad w.



On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Rob de Bie
<mailto:robdebie@...>robdebie@...
[Q-LIST] <<mailto:Q-LIST@...>Q-LIST@...> wrote:
Â
Hi Richard,
I've read many of the early Canard Pushers, a couple of hundred pages
so far, and indeed they make very interesting reading! When I wrote
my first posting, I was thinking specifically about the Q1 and Q2,
where the original company went bankrupt, and one of the designers is
deceased, so probably most of the documentation was lost. You might
need to reverse-engineer the design then.
Still, I think there's still a lot of information not available
publicly, that could be generated by a common effort. Just one
example: the design speeds used in the design: VA, VC and VD. If you
install a bigger engine, fly faster, you might exceed them. Yet I've
never seen them for any homebuilt design. Same for stresses, to what
stress levels is the design safe? What if you increase the mass,
which happens all the time. Knowing the design work would allow a
check of these questions.
Rob
At 20:50 11 02 2017, you wrote:
Hi Rob,
Most popular designs are well tested to destruction and improvements are
tested properly.
The Long eze is a good example, and if you read the Canard Pushers that
Burt published, he details all the testing that RAF and his associates
undertook.
If you have not read the Canard Pushers it sounds like you would enjoy
it, as it tracks the development of most of his designs.
In this day and age of Catia modeling and multiple Stress simulations,
its great to see that manufacturers are still forced to waggle the wings
until that fall off to prove the guy with the calculator and pencil or
the latest fatigue simulator has not got it wrong again don't you think ?

Richard Thomson
TriQ200
VV283
UK.




Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Martin Skiby
 

The section on the right was the actual weights and measures to get the CG,  The left side was the chart that shows the weight and moment of each station then showing the total.

I can send you the Excel sheet if you like.  It also has the chart with the CG limits for the LS an GU canard.


Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Martin Skiby
 

Thanks Jay,  Yes that is the question.  Our TriQ does have the large tank, but we have yet to do a total fill of this one and accurately measure so the numbers were for the "hope" we had 20.  Probably it will be 15 which will just adjust that weight.

I pulled the GU canard CG and it is quite a bit more narrow than the LS.



Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Mike Dwyer
 

Wow that's a heavy Q200.  90 lbs more than mine.  And with a gu canard.   Better make every landing a squeeker.

Mike Q200 N3QP


On Feb 13, 2017 11:37 AM, "mskiby@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 


Good Morning all.  We had the opportunity to weigh the plane yesterday and the following is the chart we attained.  I would appreciate any of you that have comment to let me know.  We have a GU Canard on this Q200 so the CG range is a bit different than the LS Canard.





Empty Weight                     
 













Weight

         













         Arm (in)                 
         












           Moment













CG













               Weight













       Arm













       Moment
        Right 359 38.625 13866.375
Aircraft 727 40.98 29792.46 Left 358 38.625 13827.75
Oil 10 5 50 Tail 10 210.125 2101.25
Header Fuel 30 24 720
Fuel Main 120 44.6 5352 Total 727 29795.375
Pilot  200 59.5 11900
Passenger 0 59.5 0 CG= 40.98400963
Baggage 0 78 0
Ballast 0 119.75 0
Totals: 1087   47814.46    




Re: Weight and Balance of N33QR

Jay Scheevel
 

Looks like the attachment did not attach. I have loaded it into the files section

Jay


Re: Spring Fling

Bruce Crain
 


New file uploaded to Q-LIST

Q-LIST@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Q-LIST
group.


File : /Martins_Weight_and_Balance/Martin_Skiby_WB_worksheet.xls
Uploaded by : jay_scheevel <jay@...>
Description :


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Q-LIST/files/Martins_Weight_and_Balance/Martin_Skiby_WB_worksheet.xls


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,


jay_scheevel <jay@...>


Re: Open-source / community certification-like analysis of homebuilt air

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Brad,

Given that QAC, and virtually all kit manufacturers of that era would routinely report the most optimistic numbers they were able acquire (or imagine). These were rarely measured in a way that certified aircraft are required to do. For example, landing and cruise speeds were done flying way below the gross weight for the QAC planes. This is understandable, they were selling dreams, not airplanes.  But certified A/C have to report demonstrated performance at gross weight. True, these tests are at sea level with a crack test pilot, but at least they are standardized.

As an example of numbers QAC may have acquired if rigorous flight testing was done, I have computed the following numbers from my models for minimum level flight airspeed in ground effect (my model was calibrated to match the QAC Q-200 prototype, at sea level).

weight (lbs.)        Vmin (mph CAS)
900                    66.6
1000                  70.21
1100                  73.64
1200                  76.9
1300                  80.5

From my modeling, other flight numbers are similarly affected. So, I don't think it would be useful to publish fixed numbers for an aircraft like the Q-200 that is significantly impacted by weight. That would be more of an academic exercise.

My intention is to create realistic charts for my plane that include effects of density altitude and weight, once it is flying. For now, I am using my models to give me a feel for what to expect. I will calibrate them to match my performance as I do my flight testing.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Re: Foam

Jay Scheevel
 

I agree with you Dave. I am glad that I have been building mine from the get-go (and thanks again to all of you over the years!). The problem was created by QAC going out of business with so many kits unbuilt. They show up in significant numbers over time as unfinished/partially finished, incomplete kits, etc. But nevertheless, I agree with you.

Perhaps Richard will someday become the defacto replacement for QAC and people can get going with pristine kits. Would be fun to see a resurgence, given all we know now about how to perfect and fly these great planes.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building

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