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Re: Fire extinguisher location

quickieaircraft
 

I buckle the fire extinguisher into the passenger seat.  In case of passenger, you make the passenger hold it and it keeps them awake. The small fire extinguishers are mostly intended for small electrical fires.

I have the powder type (mostly baking soda). In a fire emergency, I think most people would trade "on fire" for "dusty".

Emron
TriQ200 ~20hrs.


Re: Fire extinguisher location

Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

You definitely don't want a Halon unit. If you are stuck fighting an in flight fire the Halon will take take the air out of the cockpit and it won't be the fire that gets you at that point. This is what happen to Marc Waddelow in a large room his own home the small cockpit of the Q would take even less.

Richard


Re: Fire extinguisher location

Christoph Steiner
 

Anybody considered mounting a blazecut system?

Christoph
 


AIr CFT fire

albert jolliffe
 

Get s parachute role it on its back fall out

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Re: Fire extinguisher location

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

I installed a system  used by NASCAR. The Halon canister is at my feet.  It has a sensor in the engine compartment and a second sensor in the cockpit. It automatically goes off depending on the temperature of the sensor.

I have pictures of the installation but can't find them. I believe I wrote an article about it when I installed it I can't find that either.

I agree with John that I would rather suffocate than become a crispy critter. And like Paul Fisher I prefer to never have to find out how it works.

Jerry

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "john.hartley1@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 5/2/17 4:39 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Fire extinguisher location

 

We carry Halon extinguishers in the aircraft I fly at work. The company's line is to NEVER use them in flight - due to their lethal properties during inhalation, they are only to be used to create a path for the crew + pax to evacuate a burning aircraft on the ground.  Ours is also not to be used to fight an airframe fire. It is supposed to create a 12-14 second burst of Halon and is far short of what you'd need to spray an aircraft. Once it's on fire, the insurance company owns it and they can spray it if they like. However, I've decided if flames were climbing my pant legs and I couldn't be on the ground in the next couple seconds, I'd probably squeeze a little Halon on it - if it suffocates me to death, I'll still be better off than burning. That being said, there's no extinguisher in my Q. I'm setting on a fuel tank, the header tank is surrounded by most of the aircraft's electrical users and sets above my legs. In flight, a pistol would work better than Halon IMO.


Aside from the aircraft I've flown with airframe fire fighting capabilities, fighting fire in flight has always been taught to me: if it's electric - kill the electric via breakers or master and turn things back on one at a time until you can identify the culprit, obviously leaving the culprit's power off. Ventilate the cockpit and land as soon as possible. Fuel related - shut off the fuel at the source. Single engine aircraft is now a glider. Multi engine, land ASAP.

To the question over wether the ventilation in your cockpit would render Halon useless, I'd wager no. You'll find Halon bottles in/near engine compartments of aircraft designed to fight an engine fire in flight. Unless you're flying an open cockpit Q, I can't imagine having more of a breeze than your engine is getting. 

Just my $0.02

John




---In Q-LIST@..., <britmcman@...> wrote :

Some thoughts- don't deploy a fire extinguisher in the same closed space that you happen to be occupying. Halon works well enough to kill you. Plan your hypothetical use scenarios. Where are you likely to encounter a fire?  In the cockpit? Forward of the firewall?  Can you deploy a firewall forward extinguish event whilst in the cockpit?  Would you make your egress, access the fire extinguisher and then deploy the extinguisher?

Risk analysis and scenario planning can be tricky. I'll bet Sam Hoskins has some thoughts on this. 

Phil




On May 2, 2017, at 9:06 AM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find ! for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


Posted by: john.hartley1@...
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Re: Fire extinguisher location

Jim Patillo
 

I have a Halon Extinguisher mounted on seat back bulkhead. I uploaded a pix last night to files section.

Jim
N46JP Q200


Re: Fire extinguisher location

John Hartley
 

We carry Halon extinguishers in the aircraft I fly at work. The company's line is to NEVER use them in flight - due to their lethal properties during inhalation, they are only to be used to create a path for the crew + pax to evacuate a burning aircraft on the ground.  Ours is also not to be used to fight an airframe fire. It is supposed to create a 12-14 second burst of Halon and is far short of what you'd need to spray an aircraft. Once it's on fire, the insurance company owns it and they can spray it if they like. However, I've decided if flames were climbing my pant legs and I couldn't be on the ground in the next couple seconds, I'd probably squeeze a little Halon on it - if it suffocates me to death, I'll still be better off than burning. That being said, there's no extinguisher in my Q. I'm setting on a fuel tank, the header tank is surrounded by most of the aircraft's electrical users and sets above my legs. In flight, a pistol would work better than Halon IMO.

Aside from the aircraft I've flown with airframe fire fighting capabilities, fighting fire in flight has always been taught to me: if it's electric - kill the electric via breakers or master and turn things back on one at a time until you can identify the culprit, obviously leaving the culprit's power off. Ventilate the cockpit and land as soon as possible. Fuel related - shut off the fuel at the source. Single engine aircraft is now a glider. Multi engine, land ASAP.

To the question over wether the ventilation in your cockpit would render Halon useless, I'd wager no. You'll find Halon bottles in/near engine compartments of aircraft designed to fight an engine fire in flight. Unless you're flying an open cockpit Q, I can't imagine having more of a breeze than your engine is getting. 

Just my $0.02

John




---In Q-LIST@..., <britmcman@...> wrote :

Some thoughts- don't deploy a fire extinguisher in the same closed space that you happen to be occupying. Halon works well enough to kill you. Plan your hypothetical use scenarios. Where are you likely to encounter a fire?  In the cockpit? Forward of the firewall?  Can you deploy a firewall forward extinguish event whilst in the cockpit?  Would you make your egress, access the fire extinguisher and then deploy the extinguisher?

Risk analysis and scenario planning can be tricky. I'll bet Sam Hoskins has some thoughts on this. 

Phil




On May 2, 2017, at 9:06 AM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


Re: Fire extinguisher location

britmcman99
 

Some thoughts- don't deploy a fire extinguisher in the same closed space that you happen to be occupying. Halon works well enough to kill you. Plan your hypothetical use scenarios. Where are you likely to encounter a fire?  In the cockpit? Forward of the firewall?  Can you deploy a firewall forward extinguish event whilst in the cockpit?  Would you make your egress, access the fire extinguisher and then deploy the extinguisher?

Risk analysis and scenario planning can be tricky. I'll bet Sam Hoskins has some thoughts on this. 

Phil




On May 2, 2017, at 9:06 AM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


Re: Fire extinguisher location

Paul Fisher
 

I understand Mike.  I am HAPPY to say that I have carried a fire extinguisher for 27 years and have never needed it!!  I hope for that trend to continue.

Seriously, I figured the best use was on the ground in case of a fire during engine start.  I doubt it would be much use in flight - but I would still try!!

Paul

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Mike Dwyer q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

So a question about fire extinguishers.  

Obviously Halon seems to be a good choice.  The others blow out powder or C02.  Don't want the powder all over everything.  The Halon works by displacing the oxygen.  When I'm flying I got the air vents wide open and a good breeze blowing through.  I don't see Halon working in the cockpit.  And how could you test to see if it would work?

In flight, I see the highest risk of fire under the cowl.  Anything that could put out an engine fire?  I do know how to build an electronic fire detector but haven't done that either...

Sorry to say I haven't had an extinguisher for 30 years in the Q... 

Mike Dwyer 
Q200 N3QP



On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Mine is mounted on the seat back bulkhead between the seats.  I found this picture online: https://goo.gl/images/e244Fu

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On May 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "mskiby@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.



Virus-free. www.avast.com



Re: Fire extinguisher location

Mike Dwyer
 

So a question about fire extinguishers.  

Obviously Halon seems to be a good choice.  The others blow out powder or C02.  Don't want the powder all over everything.  The Halon works by displacing the oxygen.  When I'm flying I got the air vents wide open and a good breeze blowing through.  I don't see Halon working in the cockpit.  And how could you test to see if it would work?

In flight, I see the highest risk of fire under the cowl.  Anything that could put out an engine fire?  I do know how to build an electronic fire detector but haven't done that either...

Sorry to say I haven't had an extinguisher for 30 years in the Q... 

Mike Dwyer 
Q200 N3QP



On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Mine is mounted on the seat back bulkhead between the seats.  I found this picture online: https://goo.gl/images/e244Fu

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On May 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "mskiby@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Engine installation

Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

UL offers their engine weights with oil and all accessories (ECU, fuel pumps and so on) total weight comes in at 168lbs.

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 10:11 PM, 'Murry I. Rozansky' MIRCO@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Might be total weight FWF? The UL engine weight looks like bare and dry. Really pinning down engine weights is difficult if you are not there to see what is included.
Murry
 
From: Patrick Panzera editor@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 6:25 PM
To: Q-LIST
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Engine installation
 
 

According to their website, it's only 170 lbs.

http://revmasteraviation.com/

Pat
 
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 7:48 AM, 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 
Did I get it wrong?  It's  been years since I looked into that subject.  What is  your take Pat?
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Patrick Panzera editor@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Engine installation
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 06:47:29 -0700

 

Hi Bruce, 
 
I'm just wondering how you came up with 207 lbs for the Revmaster?
 
Thanks!
 
Pat
 
 
On Apr 18, 2017 8:04 PM, "'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

 

With an engine that weighs only 167 lbs and putting out 107 hp you should have a rocket!  You're a good 75 lbs lighter than the Continental 0200 and 40 lbs lighter than the Revmaster!  If the rest of the air frame is light and straight.  You might be able to put the battery next to the PAX right calf if the weight and balance works out.  Don't the UL engines pick up the horse power by upping the rpm a bit say 2700 to 3000?  Jay Scheevel what say you about the engine center line?  Is there a good reason for that?  The float planes don't seem to be much interested in engine center line (see Sea Wind Aircraft).  If you end up cruising about 180 mph you could open up something new and exciting for the Quickie!
Got our eyes on you Bro!
Bruce Crain
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Re: Engine installation

Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

I was probably misunderstood at SNF. The placement for the engine mount moves down 1 3/8" at the top to get the UL engine crank on the trust line for the Q. I will post a picture of the firewall dwg when I get back into our shop in WV this week. As far as CG the UL comes in at about 8lbs lighter then the 2100D VW so there should be no issues there. UL offers all the info on line for the engine mount dimension needed and the original Q firewall templets does offer the thrust line location. Balancing the controls is a must do because of the speed increase with the new engine. 

Fast Little Airplanes


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Re: Fire extinguisher location

Martin Skiby
 

That is what I was thinking as well.  You verified it.

Thanks


Re: Engine installation

Martin Skiby
 

I would not be concerned at all about the placement for the UL.  Personally I would place the centerline exactly where the 0200 is and give it a run.  Check the weight and balance carefully and go.  I have done research on the UL and find it will be a great option for the Q2/200.  You will need to counter balance all your control surfaces and follow the procedures for the Q200 as you will basically have one of those.  Actually a Q-260!!.  Great choice and good luck with the install.  Let me know if I can help at all.

We have a Q200 and a TriQ200 both in the air.  You could also start with an 0200 prop or something very close.  We are running our 0200's in the 2800 RPM range for high speed which is a little less than the UL will want.  Biggest issue is to make sure you have adequate static RPM for the first flight to get off the ground.  I would love to chat more if you like.

Sincerely,


Re: Fire extinguisher location

Paul Fisher
 

Mine is mounted on the seat back bulkhead between the seats.  I found this picture online: https://goo.gl/images/e244Fu

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On May 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "mskiby@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


Fire extinguisher location

Martin Skiby
 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


Re: Ready for your help, Kevin

Kevin Boddicker
 

Jerry's smokin too.


On Apr 23, 2017, at 7:28 PM, Jerry Marstall jnmarstall@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Kevin asked me to respond for him. "YES! I'll even bring my own sandpaper".



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "jay@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 4/23/17 1:18 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Ready for your help, Kevin [1 Attachment]

 

Hey Kevin B,

I am starting to fill and sand the fuselage and wings. Should I prepare the guest bedroom for your visit so you can help me? 


Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building



Re: Ready for your help, Kevin

Kevin Boddicker
 

I've been turkey hunting. Jay has been partaking of the legal herb in Colorado!!!


On Apr 23, 2017, at 7:28 PM, Jerry Marstall jnmarstall@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Kevin asked me to respond for him. "YES! I'll even bring my own sandpaper".



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "jay@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 4/23/17 1:18 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Ready for your help, Kevin [1 Attachment]

 

Hey Kevin B,

I am starting to fill and sand the fuselage and wings. Should I prepare the guest bedroom for your visit so you can help me? 


Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


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