Date   

Re: Don't know name

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Describe a "positive connection" please.
Jerry



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Dorothea Keats dkeats@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 7/20/17 9:47 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Don't know name

  Jerry---------  The Dragonfly had AN3 bolts for the elevators and
ailerons. I tried to make my holes as tight as possible, but started to
develop a little slop. Maybe 1/8 inch. One day while flying about 150
MPH the entire canard started to bounce terribly. I had heard about
flutter and immediatly pulled back on the stick to load the elevators
and slow down.
Headed back to the airport and couldn't fly over 110 or it would start
to resonate.  When I landed I checked the elevators and there was about
1/2 inch play now. Grounded the airplane and at that time I wasn't the
only one having problems and Rex Taylors had come out with a mod to
install a positive connection to the elevators at multiple points.
Twenty some years later and 500 hrs and no flutter at all. Cruise around
150--160 and show off at 180 with no fear of flutter.
When I build my next plane I am going to incorporate this method into ,
both the elevators and ailerons.
Most of this info is available online somewhere in the old Dragonfly
newsletters.  ---------------  Canada Chris



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Re: Don't know name [1 Attachment]

Chris Walterson
 

Jerry--------- The Dragonfly had AN3 bolts for the elevators and ailerons. I tried to make my holes as tight as possible, but started to develop a little slop. Maybe 1/8 inch. One day while flying about 150 MPH the entire canard started to bounce terribly. I had heard about flutter and immediatly pulled back on the stick to load the elevators and slow down.
Headed back to the airport and couldn't fly over 110 or it would start to resonate. When I landed I checked the elevators and there was about 1/2 inch play now. Grounded the airplane and at that time I wasn't the only one having problems and Rex Taylors had come out with a mod to install a positive connection to the elevators at multiple points.
Twenty some years later and 500 hrs and no flutter at all. Cruise around 150--160 and show off at 180 with no fear of flutter.
When I build my next plane I am going to incorporate this method into , both the elevators and ailerons.
Most of this info is available online somewhere in the old Dragonfly newsletters. --------------- Canada Chris


Don't know name

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Hello Jay,

I think the best solution is the drawing I attached.  Obviously I am not a draftsman.

It would be made out of steel and fits the circumference of the tubing.  When tighten it tightens evenly all the way around.

No crushing.

 

I don’t know what they are called.  A local fellow made them at work for me.  He now works somewhere else and doesn’t have access to a lathe.

I am sure they can be bought somewhere if you know what to call them.

 

Jerry


Re: Bolt torques

Sam Hoskins
 

Tighten them down until the wiggle is gone. Use fresh bolts, nuts and washers. 

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.

On Jul 20, 2017 6:19 PM, "jay@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

You are right Richard, I did not think to state that the ailerons are AN3's. Good point about the shank. I will check that. In any case, I am sure my holes are not as precise as could be, but I can use the hole reamer to check/improve. I have deburred them. I am presuming that the bolt tension and associated friction is what eliminates slop in the control system, since only a thousandth or two will show up as some play in the controls. Small torques should not distort the tube too much since it is fairly thick walled steel, but trying to find the happy medium between distorting and providing adequate clamping force that would provide enough friction. Just thinking out loud here... Thanks for your input.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Bolt torques

Jay Scheevel
 

You are right Richard, I did not think to state that the ailerons are AN3's. Good point about the shank. I will check that. In any case, I am sure my holes are not as precise as could be, but I can use the hole reamer to check/improve. I have deburred them. I am presuming that the bolt tension and associated friction is what eliminates slop in the control system, since only a thousandth or two will show up as some play in the controls. Small torques should not distort the tube too much since it is fairly thick walled steel, but trying to find the happy medium between distorting and providing adequate clamping force that would provide enough friction. Just thinking out loud here... Thanks for your input.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Bolt torques

Richard Thomson
 

Hi Jay,

You say AN4 which I presume you are relating to the elevators, the ailerons runs are AN3, unless I have missed a mod.

It partly depends on how good your hole tolerance is, I used a 3/16th Taper reamer to finish the holes and they are spot on, so no slop with the bolt.

I used a bolt length that made sure the shaft was bearing on the shank both sides, and a washer, or two if necessary, each side then just snugged them down so they wouldn't freely rotate.That way there is no shear on the thread.

If you use a torque figure it may deform the pipe and preload the bolt.


Richard T.


Re: FLAPS and Oshkosh

Bruce Crain
 


FLAPS and Oshkosh

Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

For those that do not know Fast Little Airplanes was to have a booth this year at Oshkosh. In the week before Wendy's sister had to be moved to a hospice house as she has lost her fight with cancer. This morning we lost her sister. Please keep Wendy and her family in your thoughts and prayers.

Richard Kaczmarek
Fast Little Airplanes


Re: Q1 ONAN ENGINE MOUNT

Mike Toomey
 

Matt,


Please contact me by email or phone.


Thanks,

Mike

miketoomey43055@...

(740)975-2272


Bolt torques

Jay Scheevel
 

Has anyone ever documented if there is an appropriate torque for the AN4 bolts that pin the torque tubes together on the elevator and aileron linkages, or is it "just tighten until it feels right"?  Thanks.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building



Re: clear document window

Jim Patillo
 

I think I am going to drill small holes thru the spade connectors and Install screws thru each one to keep them locked tight. Lesson learned.

Jim P
N46JP - Q200


Re: Matco Bleeder Fittings

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Aha. A place I will check when a leak appears. Thx.j



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "jay@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 7/18/17 2:18 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: RE: [Q-LIST] Matco Bleeder Fittings

 

Thanks Jerry,

According to Matco it has a seat that is 1/8" NPT, and a core that seats against an o-ring in the seat.  Matco part # (whole assembly) is MSC BBS(S)ASY.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Matco Bleeder Fittings

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks Jerry,

According to Matco it has a seat that is 1/8" NPT, and a core that seats against an o-ring in the seat.  Matco part # (whole assembly) is MSC BBS(S)ASY.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Matco Bleeder Fittings

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Mine looks like a 1/8” NPT straight zerk fitting.  J

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:51 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Matco Bleeder Fittings

 

 

Anyone know the right size/thread for bleeder valves for the original Tri-Q brake calipers? Thanks. Right now, I just have a setscrew in the port. Looks like 1/8 NPT.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building

 


Re: Matco Bleeder Fittings

Jay Scheevel
 

Never mind. Got the info from Matco.

Cheers,
Jay


Matco Bleeder Fittings

Jay Scheevel
 

Anyone know the right size/thread for bleeder valves for the original Tri-Q brake calipers? Thanks. Right now, I just have a setscrew in the port. Looks like 1/8 NPT.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building



Re: clear document window

Paul Fisher
 

Agreed Phil.  That's what I did on my other plane to try to minimize vibration at the joint. It does look a little tacky, but it really seems to help keep things together.

Paul Fisher
Q-200, N17PF

On Jul 17, 2017 11:15, "Phil Lankford britmcman@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Encapsulate the spade connector with a little RTV if there is sufficient geometry on the coil (a bend, crook or joggle) to create some mechanical interlock??? Might be ugly but might good. 

Phil 


On Jul 17, 2017, at 7:57 AM, 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I flew several times but in the morning.  Still 85 degrees in the morning at 3000'!
Would putting a couple of shrink tubing on the spade connection help support it?
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] clear document window
Date: 17 Jul 2017 14:20:00 +0000

 

Hey Bruce,

Seemed like the prudent thing to do. The plane flew smooth last week after that find. I will know for sure if that was the problem as I am flying back to the Bay Area this morning. The same thing happened several years ago on the way to OSH. The spade connection on those coils appear to be the weakest link. Only saying.

Btw, I was visiting in Poteau, Ok last week. It was hot but the humidity really sucked.

Thanks,
Jim

 



____________________________________________________________
Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times
The Observer
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/596cd0ac4c3c850ac5d6dst02vuc
SponsoredBy Content.Ad


Re: clear document window

britmcman99
 

Encapsulate the spade connector with a little RTV if there is sufficient geometry on the coil (a bend, crook or joggle) to create some mechanical interlock??? Might be ugly but might good. 

Phil 


On Jul 17, 2017, at 7:57 AM, 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I flew several times but in the morning.  Still 85 degrees in the morning at 3000'!
Would putting a couple of shrink tubing on the spade connection help support it?
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] clear document window
Date: 17 Jul 2017 14:20:00 +0000

 

Hey Bruce,

Seemed like the prudent thing to do. The plane flew smooth last week after that find. I will know for sure if that was the problem as I am flying back to the Bay Area this morning. The same thing happened several years ago on the way to OSH. The spade connection on those coils appear to be the weakest link. Only saying.

Btw, I was visiting in Poteau, Ok last week. It was hot but the humidity really sucked.

Thanks,
Jim

 



____________________________________________________________
Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times
The Observer
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/596cd0ac4c3c850ac5d6dst02vuc
SponsoredBy Content.Ad


Re: clear document window

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Jim,

Glad you are well and apparently found the demon. Looking forward to you flying that plane many more years.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Re: clear document window

Bruce Crain
 

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