Matthew, 

Congrats on the first flight and becoming a Q pilot!

I might suggest you look closely at the ram air vent. Two years ago, with over 350 hours on my plane, I had loss of power on take off. Went through the carb, new intake rubbers, etc. turned out to be that the ram air tube was bent up slightly. In climb the air was not going into the tube, but over the tube end, which resulted in loss of power. Nose the plane over and power came back. I bent the tube down parallel with the floor, problem solved. Sometimes we overlook the small things, go for the BIG things with little or no success. Don’t ask me how I know these lessons!

2650 rpm on TO roll. 2500 in climb @ 100mph. Tri Q.

Props Inc. 58X71

Good luck and keep us all informed. But mostly fly safe!

Kevin Boddicker

TriQ 200 N7868B   433 hrs
Luana, IA.

 

I did a very thorough inspection on the engine prior to flying it and I did remove and inspect the intake tubes as part of that. I was pleasantly surprised by the condition of them and I am confident they are in place and secure.

I feel like an idiot saying this but I did not do a static run up to WOT. I will do that prior to flying it again just to see if anything peculiar shows up.

I wasn't really looking at the dash much but as I recall the RPM's were in the 2400 range in the climb and I was just over 1k fpm on the climb. The whole engine not running properly right after take off kind of dictates that your eyes be out the cockpit the entire time - a video camera would have helped with that info.

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326

---

From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...> on behalf of logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 3:11 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

 

 

Mathew,

You should also check or replace intake rubber tubes. Clamps may be loose or rubber no good. This can cause similar issues. Did you tie your plane down and do static run up prior to first flight?

Paul is right! Prop/mfg will define RPM. I have a 60/72 Catto prop. Turns 2350 RPM down the runway. If you have a 60/66 Warnke it should turn around 2450 RPM from my experience. Either way you have sufficient power to launch.

Congratulations and be very careful in your flight test program. This AC can kick your butt quickly.

Jim
N46JP Q200

On Sep 1, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

We're sorry you are going miss the FOD too.  Keep healing my friend!

Paul

On Sep 1, 2017 06:36, "Jerry Marstall jnmarstall@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Absolutely outstanding demo.  After seeing your demo years ago I continue to use it - even on small repairs.

I'm getting better every minute.   Really pissed about missing FOD.

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 8/31/17 2:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Quickie List <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: [Q-LIST] New video - Finishing Composite Aircraft using the Epoxy Wipe method

 

Hi Guys.

Just uploaded a 20 minute video on how I use the epoxy wipe method on my aircraft.  I hope you find it useful.

https://youtu.be/43K1qwoHbnc

Thanks.

Sam Hoskins

Q-200

Just passed 2,000 hours.

 

I did a very thorough inspection on the engine prior to flying it and I did remove and inspect the intake tubes as part of that. I was pleasantly surprised by the condition of them and I am confident they are in place and secure.

I feel like an idiot saying this but I did not do a static run up to WOT. I will do that prior to flying it again just to see if anything peculiar shows up.

I wasn't really looking at the dash much but as I recall the RPM's were in the 2400 range in the climb and I was just over 1k fpm on the climb. The whole engine not running properly right after take off kind of dictates that your eyes be out the cockpit the entire time - a video camera would have helped with that info.

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326

---

From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...> on behalf of logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 3:11 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

 

 

Mathew,

You should also check or replace intake rubber tubes. Clamps may be loose or rubber no good. This can cause similar issues. Did you tie your plane down and do static run up prior to first flight?

Paul is right! Prop/mfg will define RPM. I have a 60/72 Catto prop. Turns 2350 RPM down the runway. If you have a 60/66 Warnke it should turn around 2450 RPM from my experience. Either way you have sufficient power to launch.

Congratulations and be very careful in your flight test program. This AC can kick your butt quickly.

Jim
N46JP Q200

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]

wrote:

 

I forwarded your message to him. 

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.

On Sep 1, 2017 9:12 PM, "ryan goodman elboy0712@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Anyone have contact info for Jon Finley? Wanted to reach out abs all about his experiences with the elipse prop design. Thanks, Ryan

 

Here are two easy little vent pressurization tests you can do. First, get under the airplane, wrap your lips around the ram air intake tube and blow. You should be able to pressurize it and when you let go you should feel the air come rushing back at you. Obviously,  if you have a leak the air won't come back. Now to make this test a little more sophisticated,  find yourself a kids balloon that  has a neck about the same size as the ram air vent and repeat this test. Blow up the balloon then tighten it over the ram air vent tube. If it stays inflated for 5 minutes or more you know you don't have any leaks.

Next, I would look at the mixture control rigging. Ensure that when the mixture is pushed all the way in,  that the mixture control lever on the carburetor is fully at the stop. Then pull the mixture all the way out and make sure it comes all the way back to the idle cutoff position.

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.

On Sep 1, 2017 8:49 AM, "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

My gas cap is a rubber pipe plug style. I wrapped some heavy plastic on the outside of the neck and put some heavy rubber bands over that to act as a diaphragm and ensure there is no chance of a leak. I took it up for another test flight hoping this solved the problem and at first it seemed better but then no bueno. I coaxed it up to 2k feet and flew it around for probably 15 minutes and it runs just fine at lower power setting but as soon as you go full power after about 20 seconds the rpms drop to about 2050 and it won't come back until you bring the power back a bit. It is very evident that it is lean at this point. At the higher altitude I was more comfortable playing around with things. Its hard to tell exactly what rpm I am getting because the gauge is small and there is a lot of parallax, as it is on the right side of the dash. It looked like it was getting 2400rpm in the climb, at 100mph indicated - I am getting  1000 fpm climb there at 920lb gross TO weight and I though it would do better than that.

I feel confident now that it is not a venting issue related to the vacuum on the fill side of the tank. I am going to ground it until I can duplicate the problem on the ground and / or complete some thorough static testing. It seems clear that it is fuel starvation at high power settings and nose high attitudes. I regret not checking if it would still do it in a more level attitude. When I checked static fuel flow in the 3 point attitude a couple of months back I was getting about 20gph and I believe as Jim indicated that 15 gph is the minimum (10gph is the max fuel consumption at full throttle for the O-200 per the manual). My plan for now is to make up a big test cowl like used for run-in so that I can tie the airplane down and run it long enough to hopefully get the problem to occur. I would like to remove the gascolator from the system but I am not comfortable flying another test before doing some thorough static testing. I am confident if it is vapor lock that it will not occur on the ground. Extensive static testing will at least rule out some of the potential causes for fuel starvation; then, I will be left with the aerodynamic venting issues and vapor lock.

I wish I had a nice 3 mile long runway so I could feel more comfortable with an engine failure shortly after take off. I could rig up a pressure / vacuum gauge to read a few inches of WC into the header tank that would be the tell all for the venting issue.

On a related-unrelated note, the engine doesn't seem to be developing full power but that may be a function of the propeller pitch. What kind of climb rate can you get at around 900lbs? 

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326

---

From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...> on behalf of 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

 

 

One last throw of the dart at this topic.  There can be a low pressure area behind the exit air of the cowl.  If the tank vent is close to that it can do strange things.

 Also if the tank vent comes out the bottom of the fuselage and makes a bit of a bend back up it can form a P-Trap, like in plumbing, if it fuel sloshes out the tank into the vent tube.  Look at those two things closely.  I put the vent out the top of my header tank for this reason.  Did  Kevin Boddicker make a longer vent tube out of the bottom of his fuselage with a short bend forward to avoid the P-Trap effect?  Help me out here "Special K"!

Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:11:50 +0000

 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:

 

Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.

 

I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.

 

Questions:

 

- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?

 

I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.

 

 

 

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326

 

____________________________________________________________
Affordable Wireless Plans
Set up is easy. Get online in minutes.
Starting at only $14.95 per month!
www.netzero.net

 

One more thing, I wouldn't rule out ignition timing. Have you checked it to verify that the mags fire at 25 degrees before top dead center?

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo.

On Sep 1, 2017 8:49 AM, "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

My gas cap is a rubber pipe plug style. I wrapped some heavy plastic on the outside of the neck and put some heavy rubber bands over that to act as a diaphragm and ensure there is no chance of a leak. I took it up for another test flight hoping this solved the problem and at first it seemed better but then no bueno. I coaxed it up to 2k feet and flew it around for probably 15 minutes and it runs just fine at lower power setting but as soon as you go full power after about 20 seconds the rpms drop to about 2050 and it won't come back until you bring the power back a bit. It is very evident that it is lean at this point. At the higher altitude I was more comfortable playing around with things. Its hard to tell exactly what rpm I am getting because the gauge is small and there is a lot of parallax, as it is on the right side of the dash. It looked like it was getting 2400rpm in the climb, at 100mph indicated - I am getting  1000 fpm climb there at 920lb gross TO weight and I though it would do better than that.

I feel confident now that it is not a venting issue related to the vacuum on the fill side of the tank. I am going to ground it until I can duplicate the problem on the ground and / or complete some thorough static testing. It seems clear that it is fuel starvation at high power settings and nose high attitudes. I regret not checking if it would still do it in a more level attitude. When I checked static fuel flow in the 3 point attitude a couple of months back I was getting about 20gph and I believe as Jim indicated that 15 gph is the minimum (10gph is the max fuel consumption at full throttle for the O-200 per the manual). My plan for now is to make up a big test cowl like used for run-in so that I can tie the airplane down and run it long enough to hopefully get the problem to occur. I would like to remove the gascolator from the system but I am not comfortable flying another test before doing some thorough static testing. I am confident if it is vapor lock that it will not occur on the ground. Extensive static testing will at least rule out some of the potential causes for fuel starvation; then, I will be left with the aerodynamic venting issues and vapor lock.

I wish I had a nice 3 mile long runway so I could feel more comfortable with an engine failure shortly after take off. I could rig up a pressure / vacuum gauge to read a few inches of WC into the header tank that would be the tell all for the venting issue.

On a related-unrelated note, the engine doesn't seem to be developing full power but that may be a function of the propeller pitch. What kind of climb rate can you get at around 900lbs? 

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326

---

From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...> on behalf of 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:52 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)

 

 

One last throw of the dart at this topic.  There can be a low pressure area behind the exit air of the cowl.  If the tank vent is close to that it can do strange things.

 Also if the tank vent comes out the bottom of the fuselage and makes a bit of a bend back up it can form a P-Trap, like in plumbing, if it fuel sloshes out the tank into the vent tube.  Look at those two things closely.  I put the vent out the top of my header tank for this reason.  Did  Kevin Boddicker make a longer vent tube out of the bottom of his fuselage with a short bend forward to avoid the P-Trap effect?  Help me out here "Special K"!

Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Maiden Flight! (return to service that is)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 12:11:50 +0000

 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:

 

Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.

 

I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.

 

Questions:

 

- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?

 

I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.

 

 

 

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326

 

____________________________________________________________
Affordable Wireless Plans
Set up is easy. Get online in minutes.
Starting at only $14.95 per month!
www.netzero.net

Thanks for posting this, Sam. A good summary and reminder of the method. I like your point about pulling the surform towards you. This is very timely for me, since this is what I am working on now.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 6:13 AM, Matthew Curcio mlcurcio89@... [Q-LIST]

wrote:

 

I was able to make the maiden flight on the quickie Q200 I have been working on the past couple of months. It has 235 hrs on it but hasn't flown in about 15 years. As I said in an earlier message I had been doing some high speed taxi testing 70-75 mph and felt comfortable. The weather conditions were perfect last night and the airplane and I were ready to go. I spent quite a bit of time flying the chair yesterday and briefing up on a plan with a friend who has a lot of experience doing first flights. Flying wise it went great but I found I have some issues with the engine I need to resolve:

Right after takeoff I felt the engine lose a little power it was at that point where you're not high enough to turn around or make another runway and your not low enough to land ahead. I was still climbing but obviously nervous the situation was going to deteriorate. The engine was running smooth the entire time it was just a loss in power. The power seemed to come back at some point but it was not a very noticeable surge. I kept climbing and  turned towards the other runway so I was within glide range if I lost it. I believe it did it two more times. I set up for a landing and brought it in.

I was really pleased with the ground handling and flying of the airplane. Take-off run was fine and the landing I thought was very easy. I just flaired and held it right above the runway bleeding off all of the speed until the stick was all the way back and the airplane settled right onto the runway smoothly no bounce or shimmy.

Questions:

- What do you see on the tach in a climb at 100mph with a stock O-200?

- Thoughts on the cause of the power surge?

I'm getting a carb rebuilt kit here asap. I know I'm getting air, I know I'm getting fuel to the carb. That leaves carb and ignition. I think it is most likely that the carb has some build up on the hi speed jet or something to that nature. I discussed this with an experience A&P friend as well and he agreed and said it didn't sound like a mag issue he has ever come across. I know vapor lock could be a concern, I do have a gascolator mounted on the firewall. It is on the far left side and I put a tightly sealed aluminum enclosure around it with a small naca scoop in the cowl pushing cool air in direcetly at the top of the enclosure and then it flow out the bottom. Your thoughts are welcome.

Matthew Curcio

734.693.6326