Date   

Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Corbin
 

Update:  I was able to complete the steps recommended by Rick/Sonia and it points towards alternator as bad.  The breaker did not trip after the last step of disconnecting the alt field wire from alternator.  

I’m confident my (our) troubleshooting justifies trying a replacement alternator now!

Getting close!

Corbin

On Jul 31, 2019, at 11:05 AM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Btw it also tripped the 5a alt. field breaker on the panel and turned on the amber low volt alarm each time. That’s what started my electrical quest.

Jim
N46JP-0200


Re: Mandatory International flight plan?

Bruce Crain
 


Re: Mandatory International flight plan?

Paul Fisher
 

It is just the FORMAT of the flight plan that has to follow the ICAO standards instead of the old domestic (US only) format.  So IF you file a flight plan, it must be in that new format.  The rules for when and if you file are not changing.

Yes, this change has been in the works for some time.  The implementation date has slipped several times, but its been coming.

I use fltplan.com to file all of my flight plans.  Once you get your aircraft defined, they take care of getting it filed in the proper format.  I haven't had any problems with them.  I suppose I should confess that I only file flight plans when I fly IFR.  I haven't filed a VFR flight plan for probably thirty years! (Yes, I know -shame on me!)

Paul

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 23:58 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Does anyone know anything about this note from the FAA.  It says it will start August 27, 2019.  It states that it will be mandatory that you fill out an International Flight plan if are an IFR or VFR domestic or international civil flight!
Did they just sneak this in or has it been coming for a while.
FAA notice NOTC9616
I  hope this is not going to happen in the US!  Somebody fill me in please!
 
Bruce Crain


____________________________________________________________
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Re: Mandatory International flight plan?

victor taylor
 

It only means that all flights that you would normally file a flight plan will be done with the international flight plan now. You are still not required to file for VFR unless in an ADIZ or crossing a border. 

Victor Taylor CFII
Velocity 93 DV


On Aug 1, 2019, at 02:01, 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Does anyone know anything about this note from the FAA.  It says it will start August 27, 2019.  It states that it will be mandatory that you fill out an International Flight plan if are an IFR or VFR domestic or international civil flight!
Did they just sneak this in or has it been coming for a while.
FAA notice NOTC9616
I  hope this is not going to happen in the US!  Somebody fill me in please!
 
Bruce Crain


____________________________________________________________
This Simple Drink "Ends" Tinnitus - Try Tonight
fighttinnitusnow.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/5d423a369cdc03a367216st02vuc
SponsoredBy Content.Ad


Mandatory International flight plan?

Bruce Crain
 


Re: Oshkosh award winner

Bruce Crain
 


Re: Image of overheated foam by epoxy

Paul Fisher
 

Interesting!  You are supposed to use a bunch of flox for the tail gear, so I guess it could exotherm.  I wonder what mine looks like... but I'm not going to cut it open to find out!!

Thanks for sharing the picture.

Paul

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 09:39 marclevesque421@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Just wanted to sharer this image of an epoxy issue that we don't often get to see since we rarely demolish our aircraft.


On the image we can see that the foam melted from the heat of the epoxy reaction.


This is from a Q2  that was never finished and left exposed to the elements in someone's backyard for 30 years.


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Jim Patillo
 

Btw it also tripped the 5a alt. field breaker on the panel and turned on the amber low volt alarm each time. That’s what started my electrical quest.

Jim
N46JP-0200


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Jim Patillo
 

Excellent rendition Rick,

This a great learning moment for Chris to bond and understanding his new ride. Very handy stuff.
He has a fast airplane with the 0200 and GU canard.

The problem I had was the 60 amp breaker I installed for the alternator was mounted on the engine side of the firewall and after a few years of heat soaking, the breaker would degrade and trip. After it cooled down I could reset it. Replaced it twice in 19 years.

Jim Patillo
N46JP-Q200
😎


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Corbin
 

Thank you!  I can’t wait to try these steps!  I had to travel out of town for a couple of days.  So I won’t be able to try until Saturday.

Thanks again!

Corbin

On Jul 31, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

That’s not quite correct. The 50a breaker connects the output of the alternator to the bus always unless it is tripped or pulled. Even with engine not running and regardless of the field/regulator being powered. Without voltage at the alternator field the alternator will not produce any current. The bus voltage at alternator output will not result in the alternator drawing any current from the bus because the internal diodes in the alternator block current from going “into” the alternator output. 

A failed alternator with shorted diode(s) (there are typically 6) will cause the 50 amp breaker to trip as soon as the master switch is on. 
The 50mp amp breaker is there for 2 reasons. One, to protect the alternator from producing too much power. Two, to protect the battery should the alternator diode(s) fail. 

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:52 AM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

You are correct.  However, it only activates once the alternator has power and is running.  And since the 5 amp is popping right away then the alternator never gets the chance to excite the stator.  So I’m not sure if it would pop or not as I can’t get that far.


Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:54 PM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Rick Hole
 

That’s not quite correct. The 50a breaker connects the output of the alternator to the bus always unless it is tripped or pulled. Even with engine not running and regardless of the field/regulator being powered. Without voltage at the alternator field the alternator will not produce any current. The bus voltage at alternator output will not result in the alternator drawing any current from the bus because the internal diodes in the alternator block current from going “into” the alternator output. 
A failed alternator with shorted diode(s) (there are typically 6) will cause the 50 amp breaker to trip as soon as the master switch is on. 
The 50mp amp breaker is there for 2 reasons. One, to protect the alternator from producing too much power. Two, to protect the battery should the alternator diode(s) fail. 

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:52 AM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

You are correct.  However, it only activates once the alternator has power and is running.  And since the 5 amp is popping right away then the alternator never gets the chance to excite the stator.  So I’m not sure if it would pop or not as I can’t get that far.


Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:54 PM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Rick Hole
 

Ok Corbin you are working so hard on this. You might try this test:
At the regulator disconnect the power wire from the 5a breaker. Power up. Does the breaker still trip? If yes the wire from breaker to regulator is bad. If no, reconnect the wire and at the regulator disconnect the wire going to alternator field. Power up again. Breaker trips? Bad regulator. Does not trip? Reconnect the wire. Disconnect field wire at alternator. Power up again. Trip? Bad wire. No trip? Bad alternator. 


Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:52 AM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

You are correct.  However, it only activates once the alternator has power and is running.  And since the 5 amp is popping right away then the alternator never gets the chance to excite the stator.  So I’m not sure if it would pop or not as I can’t get that far.


Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:54 PM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Rick Hole
 

Don’t forget, with main switch off, to check resistance from field wire to ground. It should not be 0 ohms. 
It may not show infinite however as other devices on the unpowered bus may have resistance to ground. For example any radio or device which comes on when the main sw is activated. A couple hundred ohms would be common. 
An ok Continuity check of a wire end to end does not preclude the wire also being grounded

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 30, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I’m starting to think I need a new alternator.  Wiring seems fine to me.  Continuity checks are good.

Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I have seen frayed wires cause similar problems

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.


Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.


I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin

On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 









Re: OSH warbird webcam captures quickies

 

Never thought of it that way....or to small to see

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jerry Marstall jnmarstall@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

The reason you got two passes is because you went by too fast to see on the first one. 


-------- Original message --------
From: "Keith Welsh kflyav8@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 7/30/19 2:14 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] OSH warbird webcam captures quickies

 

Thanks Jim,
I was surprised and honored for the same reasons you just stated.  Don’t know if or how many of you saw it fly in Thursday’s airshow.  After all the brain pounding & butterflies the actual flight was a blast....because our flight leader had done such a good coaching us.  

If anyone noticed we launched top down w/ the fastest planes circling @ 1100’, the second tire circled @ 800’ with the slowest @ 500’, me and the Viggen.  The air boss brought us down from the bottom up.  The crowd passes were @ 200’.  When the Viggen & I landed everyone stepped down till all had done a crowd pass & landed.  The Air Boss had me make a tight pattern to get two passes in.  That was unexpected & told to me right after I broke ground on takeoff.  Much planning, the right combination of people & discipline was necessary to pull this off as cleanly as we did.  We were told in no uncertain terms 4 things to remember....be where your supposed to be, do what your supposed to do, be on time & never loose sight of the plane if front.  The 200’ crowd pass granted by the Air Boss was unusual I’m told for civilian flyers, normally it’s 500’.  

On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 10:53 AM JMasal@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

OUTSTANDING kEITH. Especially in view of the weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth it took you to get there! Also proud that the Osh
judges could recognize the workmanship of an older homebuilt. I was at Osh but didn't see it as my stamina is still crap and I
stuck to the trams. Did see the QAC Quickie from a distance but I thought that one was hanging in a Wash state museum. Was it
moved?

j.


-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Welsh kflyav8@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...>
To: Q-LIST <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Mon, Jul 29, 2019 6:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] OSH warbird webcam captures quickies

 
The Quickie received recognition for “Outstanding Workmanship Plans built”
When I registered it upon arriving I almost declined judging.  
I knew thirty years of troubleshooting getting engine temps in line resulting in five overhauls and two engines, three cowl repaints, a few delaminate repairs from being kneed at airshows, two panels and fading of the cockpit material would keep it from being a top tier airplane. 
I started getting curious the more initials that were on the prop card, 15 in all, especially when one judge told me that was a good thing.
 I was surprised when a letter was delivered by the head judge on Friday that the Q would be recognized at Sat evenings awards presentation.  Even though it didn’t get a Lindy the plaque received is pretty especially when considering there were some 4000 homebuilts registered.
The winner in plans built was.......a Long Eze. 


On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 4:23 PM JMasal@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 
Did I black out suddenly??? I'm reading a lot of Keith congrats but exactly WHAT award did he win?

j



Jay


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Corbin
 

You are correct.  However, it only activates once the alternator has power and is running.  And since the 5 amp is popping right away then the alternator never gets the chance to excite the stator.  So I’m not sure if it would pop or not as I can’t get that far.

Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:54 PM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Corbin
 

Great point!  Thanks for keeping me positive.   I love the fact I’m now comfortable taking off the engine and putting back on.  I’ve learned so much this last week.  

Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 6:28 PM, 'Jay Scheevel SGT' jay@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Don’t get too frustrated, Corbin. This is giving you a chance to really get to “know” your plane. Better in the long run.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:31 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

 

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.

 

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.

 

I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Corbin
 

I’m starting to think I need a new alternator.  Wiring seems fine to me.  Continuity checks are good.

Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I have seen frayed wires cause similar problems

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.


Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.


I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin

On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 









Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Jay Scheevel
 

Don’t get too frustrated, Corbin. This is giving you a chance to really get to “know” your plane. Better in the long run.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:31 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

 

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.

 

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.

 

I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Jim Patillo
 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

Rick Hole
 

I have seen frayed wires cause similar problems

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.


Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.


I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin

On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 








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