Date   

Re: Short Q200 Flight video

 

Mike,
What prop are you running with your 0200?
Thanks

Mike( wannabe) Q200


Re: Climb performance N8WQ

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Ryan,

 

I have a Tri-Q2, LS1 canard with no anhedral, a Jabiru 3300A engine, and a Prince P-tip prop 54X62.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 1:05 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Climb performance N8WQ

 

 

Jay, really appreciate all the work you've done building data and sharing it with us all. Can you remind me what your setup is for the aircraft and powerplant? If I recall Q2, tip gear, GU canard...can't recall your engine or 

Propeller specs.

 

Ryan, TriQ restoring, Colorado Springs

 

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 12:55, 'Jay Scheevel SGT' jay@... [Q-LIST]

wrote:

 

Hi Guys,

 

After gathering quite a bit of inflight performance data on N8WQ (still in phase 1 testing), I have compiled most of the climb performance data. Trying to stay at a fairly constant density altitude, also keeping pressure altitude fairly constant. The air temperature this time of year mean that a comfortable MSL testing altitude of ~6000’ is at a DA around 8800’, so these data reflect that flying environment. Holding my GW around 1050 pounds for these tests.

 

I am happy to see that the climb data is confirming the relatively unconventional L/D profile that I got from my numerical modeling effort a few years ago. When I say unconventional, I mean that the highest L/D ratios occur very close to the lowest end of the stable airspeed range. The model chart shows L/D for level flight at a given airspeed. My flight data is measuring climb angle/rate as a function of airspeed at full power, not exactly the same thing, but close.

 

I have yet to gather climb data below about 78 mph IAS (and that was at 10000’ DA, so is not on this chart). I will get into the mid-70’s, but my pitch-buck occurs at around 70, so I approach that speed cautiously, when at full power.  Here is what I have so far.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 37 hours.


Short Q200 Flight video

Mike Dwyer
 


Re: Climb performance N8WQ [2 Attachments]

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Paul,

Hoping to do that, but my total time is not my testing time, since I had about 10 hours of ground time prior to flight. Nevertheless, I am still hopeful. The plane is running great except the "trans" part of my transponder does not seem to be working, so I need to "ponder" why that is happening.

Cheers,
Jay


Re: Climb performance N8WQ [2 Attachments]

Jay Scheevel
 

MIne is a Tri-Q2 with LS1 canard, no anhedral, Jabiru 3300A engine, Prince propeller 54X62


Re: Climb performance N8WQ [2 Attachments]

Paul Fisher
 

Jay, are you going to get through phase I in time for the FOD flying in Enid?  I'm hoping to see your airplane there this year!  Three hours in four weeks should be doable!

Paul


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019, 13:55 'Jay Scheevel SGT' jay@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Hi Guys,

 

After gathering quite a bit of inflight performance data on N8WQ (still in phase 1 testing), I have compiled most of the climb performance data. Trying to stay at a fairly constant density altitude, also keeping pressure altitude fairly constant. The air temperature this time of year mean that a comfortable MSL testing altitude of ~6000’ is at a DA around 8800’, so these data reflect that flying environment. Holding my GW around 1050 pounds for these tests.

 

I am happy to see that the climb data is confirming the relatively unconventional L/D profile that I got from my numerical modeling effort a few years ago. When I say unconventional, I mean that the highest L/D ratios occur very close to the lowest end of the stable airspeed range. The model chart shows L/D for level flight at a given airspeed. My flight data is measuring climb angle/rate as a function of airspeed at full power, not exactly the same thing, but close.

 

I have yet to gather climb data below about 78 mph IAS (and that was at 10000’ DA, so is not on this chart). I will get into the mid-70’s, but my pitch-buck occurs at around 70, so I approach that speed cautiously, when at full power.  Here is what I have so far.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 37 hours.


Re: Climb performance N8WQ [2 Attachments]

Chris Walterson
 

I realize they are a different beast, but I uploaded a video to you tube showing a Dragonfly stall with VGs. May be of interest to someone. "dragonfly stall" will get you there--------------- Chris


Re: Trip report: 49 states in the books . . . +1 for me

 

Hi, Matthew, thanks for letting me try your on at Oshkosh. Also talking Q200 with me too. I’d would be great to see your info about Alaska too
Thanks

Mike Neidenthal


Re: Climb performance N8WQ [2 Attachments]

ryan goodman
 

Jay, really appreciate all the work you've done building data and sharing it with us all. Can you remind me what your setup is for the aircraft and powerplant? If I recall Q2, tip gear, GU canard...can't recall your engine or 
Propeller specs.

Ryan, TriQ restoring, Colorado Springs


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 12:55, 'Jay Scheevel SGT' jay@... [Q-LIST]
wrote:
 

Hi Guys,

 

After gathering quite a bit of inflight performance data on N8WQ (still in phase 1 testing), I have compiled most of the climb performance data. Trying to stay at a fairly constant density altitude, also keeping pressure altitude fairly constant. The air temperature this time of year mean that a comfortable MSL testing altitude of ~6000’ is at a DA around 8800’, so these data reflect that flying environment. Holding my GW around 1050 pounds for these tests.

 

I am happy to see that the climb data is confirming the relatively unconventional L/D profile that I got from my numerical modeling effort a few years ago. When I say unconventional, I mean that the highest L/D ratios occur very close to the lowest end of the stable airspeed range. The model chart shows L/D for level flight at a given airspeed. My flight data is measuring climb angle/rate as a function of airspeed at full power, not exactly the same thing, but close.

 

I have yet to gather climb data below about 78 mph IAS (and that was at 10000’ DA, so is not on this chart). I will get into the mid-70’s, but my pitch-buck occurs at around 70, so I approach that speed cautiously, when at full power.  Here is what I have so far.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 37 hours.


Climb performance N8WQ

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Guys,

 

After gathering quite a bit of inflight performance data on N8WQ (still in phase 1 testing), I have compiled most of the climb performance data. Trying to stay at a fairly constant density altitude, also keeping pressure altitude fairly constant. The air temperature this time of year mean that a comfortable MSL testing altitude of ~6000’ is at a DA around 8800’, so these data reflect that flying environment. Holding my GW around 1050 pounds for these tests.

 

I am happy to see that the climb data is confirming the relatively unconventional L/D profile that I got from my numerical modeling effort a few years ago. When I say unconventional, I mean that the highest L/D ratios occur very close to the lowest end of the stable airspeed range. The model chart shows L/D for level flight at a given airspeed. My flight data is measuring climb angle/rate as a function of airspeed at full power, not exactly the same thing, but close.

 

I have yet to gather climb data below about 78 mph IAS (and that was at 10000’ DA, so is not on this chart). I will get into the mid-70’s, but my pitch-buck occurs at around 70, so I approach that speed cautiously, when at full power.  Here is what I have so far.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 37 hours.


Re: Brake Bleed Methods

ΕΔΔΥ . <overlordmustafa@...>
 

There is another method that you can do by yourself.  After you get the system nice and clean, run a tube from the bleeder nipple to the reservoir.  Keep pumping to your hearts content.  You'll never run out as you're circulating the fluid.  If you're worried about contaminants add a filter in the loop.  A paper paint strainer or even an inline fuel filter.

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 2:32 PM 'Jay Scheevel SGT' jay@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I generally come up with a strategy to do everything as a single person. Comes from 10+ years of living by myself. So here’s my story.

 

Plan A. I put a jar of brake fluid and a clear tube from the bleeder into it, (tube full of fluid), then opened the bleeder. Then I have a little 12 V vacuum pump that I hooked up to the fill fitting in the top of the master cylinder. I thought: air bubbles move easier uphill and vacuum will just make it even better. Guess what? I was wrong. Did not work. Brake never got solid.

 

So….

 

Plan B. Used the little oil can trick and a flexible hose attached to the fill fitting on the top of the master. Opened the bleeder at the bottom of the caliper with the bleeder hose still in the jar. Pumped the master several strokes (refilling with oil can as needed). Closed the bleeder and the brake was rock solid. Caveat. My brake lines, excluding the small flexible sections on either end, are 1/8” OD stainless tubing, and my brake system is on a Tri-Q so shorter lines (maybe 7 feet total length). So moving a bubble through the entire length does not require much volume to be pumped from the master when compared to the plans-built nylaflo tubing on a taildragger.

 

This proves again that for my plane anyway, plan B is always better than plan A.

 

Cheers,

Jay N8WQ

 

From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 8:12 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Brake Bleed Methods

 

 

I have had the most like just going to home depot and buying a little tube that will fit snugly over the bleeder. Run that up a foot or two and then into a cup than crack the bleeder and go. You can bleed by yourself and you see when all of the air is out. Just pump slowly and hold a little bit at the end of each stroke before releasing to let the bubbles rise a little bit in the line. It's by far the simplest way to bleed if you ask me. 

 

I have a pressure bottle for reverse bleeding but for some reason it always seems to en-train tiny bubbles of air in the fluid that coalesces in the break lines. 

 


From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...> on behalf of Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 9:26 AM
To: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Brake Bleed Methods

 

 

Thanks Richard.  I think I will try this method again today.  I would love to get a fitting like Jerry and connect to the reservoir to collect overflow.  Maybe I can determine that size today and get it done.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On August 16, 2019 at 8:16 AM, "fastlittleairplanes@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

We use one of those old timey hand pump oil cans and attach it to the bleeder at the caliper. By back filling the system it only takes one person to do it and will push out any air in the system. If your holding tank is full you will need to pull fluid out so not to make a mess on the back fill. We learned this method after fighting for 2 days to get a dual toe brakes PA28-140 system to work. Does work will all normal GA brake systems do make sure the park brake is not on.

Richard


Alaska

 

Hi,
I heard someone here did a Alaska trip. Is there any way getting the story about that?
Thanks
Mike Neidenthal


Re: Brake Bleed Methods

Jay Scheevel
 

I generally come up with a strategy to do everything as a single person. Comes from 10+ years of living by myself. So here’s my story.

 

Plan A. I put a jar of brake fluid and a clear tube from the bleeder into it, (tube full of fluid), then opened the bleeder. Then I have a little 12 V vacuum pump that I hooked up to the fill fitting in the top of the master cylinder. I thought: air bubbles move easier uphill and vacuum will just make it even better. Guess what? I was wrong. Did not work. Brake never got solid.

 

So….

 

Plan B. Used the little oil can trick and a flexible hose attached to the fill fitting on the top of the master. Opened the bleeder at the bottom of the caliper with the bleeder hose still in the jar. Pumped the master several strokes (refilling with oil can as needed). Closed the bleeder and the brake was rock solid. Caveat. My brake lines, excluding the small flexible sections on either end, are 1/8” OD stainless tubing, and my brake system is on a Tri-Q so shorter lines (maybe 7 feet total length). So moving a bubble through the entire length does not require much volume to be pumped from the master when compared to the plans-built nylaflo tubing on a taildragger.

 

This proves again that for my plane anyway, plan B is always better than plan A.

 

Cheers,

Jay N8WQ

 

From: Q-LIST@...
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 8:12 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Brake Bleed Methods

 

 

I have had the most like just going to home depot and buying a little tube that will fit snugly over the bleeder. Run that up a foot or two and then into a cup than crack the bleeder and go. You can bleed by yourself and you see when all of the air is out. Just pump slowly and hold a little bit at the end of each stroke before releasing to let the bubbles rise a little bit in the line. It's by far the simplest way to bleed if you ask me. 

 

I have a pressure bottle for reverse bleeding but for some reason it always seems to en-train tiny bubbles of air in the fluid that coalesces in the break lines. 

 


From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...> on behalf of Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 9:26 AM
To: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Brake Bleed Methods

 

 

Thanks Richard.  I think I will try this method again today.  I would love to get a fitting like Jerry and connect to the reservoir to collect overflow.  Maybe I can determine that size today and get it done.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On August 16, 2019 at 8:16 AM, "fastlittleairplanes@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

We use one of those old timey hand pump oil cans and attach it to the bleeder at the caliper. By back filling the system it only takes one person to do it and will push out any air in the system. If your holding tank is full you will need to pull fluid out so not to make a mess on the back fill. We learned this method after fighting for 2 days to get a dual toe brakes PA28-140 system to work. Does work will all normal GA brake systems do make sure the park brake is not on.

Richard


Re: Brake Bleed Methods

ΕΔΔΥ . <overlordmustafa@...>
 

I'll suggest a method of a 2 person which I use on everything.

Open the bleeder nipple and simply place your finger over the end and have the person pump furiously (make sure you don't run out of fluid).  Your finger acts like a flapper valve preventing any air from sucking back in.  You can move large volumes of brake fluid this way.

An airplane mechanic suggested to me to use a syringe from the caliper portion to remove any stubborn bubbles.

Finally...Is the bleeder nipple on top?  I've worked on brakes to where they were on the bottom (brakes were reversed...but some how still worked)


On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 7:11 AM Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Chasing some air in my brake lines.  I tried a vacuum pump system but I don't think I could get a could seal from the pump itself.  Then I tried pushing fluid using the oil can method; through the upper bleeder valve.  I am going to try that again today but was curious what methods others are using for a "one person" bleed method.

If I have to get a helper to press on the pedals then I will but wanted to figure out a good one person method to use.

Corbin Ge!ser


Re: Brake Bleed Methods

Matthew Curcio
 

I have had the most like just going to home depot and buying a little tube that will fit snugly over the bleeder. Run that up a foot or two and then into a cup than crack the bleeder and go. You can bleed by yourself and you see when all of the air is out. Just pump slowly and hold a little bit at the end of each stroke before releasing to let the bubbles rise a little bit in the line. It's by far the simplest way to bleed if you ask me. 

I have a pressure bottle for reverse bleeding but for some reason it always seems to en-train tiny bubbles of air in the fluid that coalesces in the break lines. 


From: Q-LIST@... on behalf of Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 9:26 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Brake Bleed Methods
 
 

Thanks Richard.  I think I will try this method again today.  I would love to get a fitting like Jerry and connect to the reservoir to collect overflow.  Maybe I can determine that size today and get it done.

Corbin Ge!ser

On August 16, 2019 at 8:16 AM, "fastlittleairplanes@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:

 

We use one of those old timey hand pump oil cans and attach it to the bleeder at the caliper. By back filling the system it only takes one person to do it and will push out any air in the system. If your holding tank is full you will need to pull fluid out so not to make a mess on the back fill. We learned this method after fighting for 2 days to get a dual toe brakes PA28-140 system to work. Does work will all normal GA brake systems do make sure the park brake is not on.

Richard


Re: Brake Bleed Methods

Mike Dwyer
 

If your brake system uses the red stuff... Use MIL-PRF-83282 Fluid.  It has a higher flashpoint than the normal red stuff.  The automotive red hydraulic fluid flashes into fire at quite a low temp.

On my Q200 it's a bitch to get the last little air out.  I've pumped from the caliper and also from the master.  Seems there is always a bit of air in there.  But weirdly enough after some time, the air goes away.  I don't get it but am not going to worry about why!

I like Sams filler for the master but I use this for pumping from the caliper.

Fly Safe,
Mike N3QP Q200


Re: Brake Bleed Methods

Gary McKirdy
 

For airheart brakes on taildaggers be sure to lift the tail first to get the air bleed hole at 12 o' clock.

Took me lots of frustrating failed attempts before I discovered that.

Gary McKirdy

On Fri, 16 Aug 2019, 14:26 Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST], <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Richard.  I think I will try this method again today.  I would love to get a fitting like Jerry and connect to the reservoir to collect overflow.  Maybe I can determine that size today and get it done.

Corbin Ge!ser

On August 16, 2019 at 8:16 AM, "fastlittleairplanes@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

We use one of those old timey hand pump oil cans and attach it to the bleeder at the caliper. By back filling the system it only takes one person to do it and will push out any air in the system. If your holding tank is full you will need to pull fluid out so not to make a mess on the back fill. We learned this method after fighting for 2 days to get a dual toe brakes PA28-140 system to work. Does work will all normal GA brake systems do make sure the park brake is not on.

Richard


Re: Brake Bleed Methods

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Corbin,
To make the fitting I just drilled a small hole in the screw that came with the master cylinder and epoxied a 1/2" of aluminum tubing to it to slide the plastic tubing over. Jerry

-------- Original message --------
From: "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 8/16/19 9:26 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Brake Bleed Methods

 

Thanks Richard.  I think I will try this method again today.  I would love to get a fitting like Jerry and connect to the reservoir to collect overflow.  Maybe I can determine that size today and get it done.

Corbin Ge!ser

On August 16, 2019 at 8:16 AM, "fastlittleairplanes@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

We use one of those old timey hand pump oil cans and attach it to the bleeder at the caliper. By back filling the system it only takes one person to do it and will push out any air in the system. If your holding tank is full you will need to pull fluid out so not to make a mess on the back fill. We learned this method after fighting for 2 days to get a dual toe brakes PA28-140 system to work. Does work will all normal GA brake systems do make sure the park brake is not on.

Richard


Re: Brake Bleed Methods

Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

Thanks Richard.  I think I will try this method again today.  I would love to get a fitting like Jerry and connect to the reservoir to collect overflow.  Maybe I can determine that size today and get it done.

Corbin Ge!ser

On August 16, 2019 at 8:16 AM, "fastlittleairplanes@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:

 

We use one of those old timey hand pump oil cans and attach it to the bleeder at the caliper. By back filling the system it only takes one person to do it and will push out any air in the system. If your holding tank is full you will need to pull fluid out so not to make a mess on the back fill. We learned this method after fighting for 2 days to get a dual toe brakes PA28-140 system to work. Does work will all normal GA brake systems do make sure the park brake is not on.

Richard


Re: Brake Bleed Methods

Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

We use one of those old timey hand pump oil cans and attach it to the bleeder at the caliper. By back filling the system it only takes one person to do it and will push out any air in the system. If your holding tank is full you will need to pull fluid out so not to make a mess on the back fill. We learned this method after fighting for 2 days to get a dual toe brakes PA28-140 system to work. Does work will all normal GA brake systems do make sure the park brake is not on.

Richard

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