Date   

Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

ryan goodman
 

Jay is your Prince prop wood or carbon? I have a carbon prince 52x70 sitting in a box for my trip q


On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 20:48, Bruce Crain
<jcrain2@...> wrote:
I've not flown with another prop besides the MT on my TriQ.  So I couldn't tell you what the top speed difference would be.  I cruise around 150 to 160 on a good day which is fairly good for a TriQ 200.
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Rik W via Groups.Io" <my_name_is_rik@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io,  <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 23:15:02 +0000 (UTC)

I was thinking more along the lines of a IVOPROP.  Magnum 2 blade electric in flight adjust is $3080 and weighs 24.2 lbs. I have no idea as to what a prop your using now weighs.
 
Could it aid in top speed?
 
 
 
 
 
Reply To: My_Name_is_Rik@...
 
 
On Friday, December 13, 2019, 12:41:35 PM PST, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
 
 
I have an MT Propeller and really like flying with it.  It is heavier than a wood prop so there is a trade off.  It really helps with fuel burn if you want to oversquare Manifold pressure and lower rpms.  It also has been a great help with high mountain altitude airport take off's.  I can dial in 2700 rpm for take off which helps a bunch.  I also don't have to keep torquing the wood prop hub as the MT is metal.  If you build a really light weight Q200 it would be a great help with all of these respects.  There is a trade off for extra weight though.
Bruce Crain 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "charlie" <ffmd@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:56:57 -0500

It would be an electric prop such as Airmaster, https://www.propellor.com/
I personally feel it would offer a substantial improvement due to the airframes wide speed range not to mention the blade selection offering more modern technology.
CharlieN

At 04:41 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:

Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik





Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Bruce Crain
 

I've not flown with another prop besides the MT on my TriQ.  So I couldn't tell you what the top speed difference would be.  I cruise around 150 to 160 on a good day which is fairly good for a TriQ 200.
Bruce


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Rik W via Groups.Io" <my_name_is_rik@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io,  <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 23:15:02 +0000 (UTC)

I was thinking more along the lines of a IVOPROP.  Magnum 2 blade electric in flight adjust is $3080 and weighs 24.2 lbs. I have no idea as to what a prop your using now weighs.
 
Could it aid in top speed?
 
 
 
 
 
Reply To: My_Name_is_Rik@...
 
 
On Friday, December 13, 2019, 12:41:35 PM PST, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
 
 
I have an MT Propeller and really like flying with it.  It is heavier than a wood prop so there is a trade off.  It really helps with fuel burn if you want to oversquare Manifold pressure and lower rpms.  It also has been a great help with high mountain altitude airport take off's.  I can dial in 2700 rpm for take off which helps a bunch.  I also don't have to keep torquing the wood prop hub as the MT is metal.  If you build a really light weight Q200 it would be a great help with all of these respects.  There is a trade off for extra weight though.
Bruce Crain 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "charlie" <ffmd@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:56:57 -0500

It would be an electric prop such as Airmaster, https://www.propellor.com/
I personally feel it would offer a substantial improvement due to the airframes wide speed range not to mention the blade selection offering more modern technology.
CharlieN

At 04:41 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:

Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik





Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Jay Scheevel
 

I have a Prince fixed pitch, which seems to perform well. It has some aeroelastic properties that help with performance across a wider speed range. Other prop makers have done some of this as well. Advantage is it weighs 7 pounds. Mine hedges towards a climb pitch and I sacrifice some speed, but I can get out of a 2500' runway at 9000 DA.

Cheers,
Jay N8WQ



Cheers,
Jay

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


"Rik W via Groups.Io" <my_name_is_rik@...> wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of a IVOPROP.  Magnum 2 blade electric in flight adjust is $3080 and weighs 24.2 lbs. I have no idea as to what a prop your using now weighs.

Could it aid in top speed?





Reply To: My_Name_is_Rik@...


On Friday, December 13, 2019, 12:41:35 PM PST, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


I have an MT Propeller and really like flying with it.  It is heavier than a wood prop so there is a trade off.  It really helps with fuel burn if you want to oversquare Manifold pressure and lower rpms.  It also has been a great help with high mountain altitude airport take off's.  I can dial in 2700 rpm for take off which helps a bunch.  I also don't have to keep torquing the wood prop hub as the MT is metal.  If you build a really light weight Q200 it would be a great help with all of these respects.  There is a trade off for extra weight though.
Bruce Crain 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "charlie" <ffmd@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:56:57 -0500

It would be an electric prop such as Airmaster, https://www.propellor.com/
I personally feel it would offer a substantial improvement due to the airframes wide speed range not to mention the blade selection offering more modern technology.
CharlieN

At 04:41 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:

Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik



Re: Quickie Q200 Props

Rik W
 

Good to know

Reply To: My_Name_is_Rik@...


On Friday, December 13, 2019, 03:39:33 PM PST, charlie <ffmd@...> wrote:


Props such as the Ivoprop and warp drive are very old airfoil / blade technology and do not have enough twist for high speed operation. They are best left for slower low to mid powered planes.
To the question if they could aid in top speed, I doubt it, but they would be fine for takeoff and climb out. Probably quite helpful in landing with their '80s tech airfoils.

These fall into, you get what you pay for.
CN

At 11:15 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of a IVOPROP.  Magnum 2 blade electric in flight adjust is $3080 and weighs 24.2 lbs. I have no idea as to what a prop your using now weighs.

Could it aid in top speed?





Reply To: My_Name_is_Rik@...


On Friday, December 13, 2019, 12:41:35 PM PST, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


I have an MT Propeller and really like flying with it.  It is heavier than a wood prop so there is a trade off.  It really helps with fuel burn if you want to oversquare Manifold pressure and lower rpms.  It also has been a great help with high mountain altitude airport take off's.  I can dial in 2700 rpm for take off which helps a bunch.  I also don't have to keep torquing the wood prop hub as the MT is metal.  If you build a really light weight Q200 it would be a great help with all of these respects.  There is a trade off for extra weight though.
Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "charlie" <ffmd@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:56:57 -0500

It would be an electric prop such as Airmaster, https://www.propellor.com/
I personally feel it would offer a substantial improvement due to the airframes wide speed range not to mention the blade selection offering more modern technology.
CharlieN

At 04:41 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:
Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik



Re: Quickie Q200 Props

charlie
 

Props such as the Ivoprop and warp drive are very old airfoil / blade technology and do not have enough twist for high speed operation. They are best left for slower low to mid powered planes.
To the question if they could aid in top speed, I doubt it, but they would be fine for takeoff and climb out. Probably quite helpful in landing with their '80s tech airfoils.

These fall into, you get what you pay for.
CN


At 11:15 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of a IVOPROP.  Magnum 2 blade electric in flight adjust is $3080 and weighs 24.2 lbs. I have no idea as to what a prop your using now weighs.

Could it aid in top speed?





Reply To: My_Name_is_Rik@...


On Friday, December 13, 2019, 12:41:35 PM PST, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


I have an MT Propeller and really like flying with it.  It is heavier than a wood prop so there is a trade off.  It really helps with fuel burn if you want to oversquare Manifold pressure and lower rpms.  It also has been a great help with high mountain altitude airport take off's.  I can dial in 2700 rpm for take off which helps a bunch.  I also don't have to keep torquing the wood prop hub as the MT is metal.  If you build a really light weight Q200 it would be a great help with all of these respects.  There is a trade off for extra weight though.
Bruce Crain

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "charlie" <ffmd@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:56:57 -0500

It would be an electric prop such as Airmaster, https://www.propellor.com/
I personally feel it would offer a substantial improvement due to the airframes wide speed range not to mention the blade selection offering more modern technology.
CharlieN

At 04:41 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:
Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik



Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Rik W
 

I was thinking more along the lines of a IVOPROP.  Magnum 2 blade electric in flight adjust is $3080 and weighs 24.2 lbs. I have no idea as to what a prop your using now weighs.

Could it aid in top speed?





Reply To: My_Name_is_Rik@...


On Friday, December 13, 2019, 12:41:35 PM PST, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


I have an MT Propeller and really like flying with it.  It is heavier than a wood prop so there is a trade off.  It really helps with fuel burn if you want to oversquare Manifold pressure and lower rpms.  It also has been a great help with high mountain altitude airport take off's.  I can dial in 2700 rpm for take off which helps a bunch.  I also don't have to keep torquing the wood prop hub as the MT is metal.  If you build a really light weight Q200 it would be a great help with all of these respects.  There is a trade off for extra weight though.
Bruce Crain 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "charlie" <ffmd@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:56:57 -0500

It would be an electric prop such as Airmaster, https://www.propellor.com/
I personally feel it would offer a substantial improvement due to the airframes wide speed range not to mention the blade selection offering more modern technology.
CharlieN

At 04:41 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:

Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik



Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Bruce Crain
 

I have an MT Propeller and really like flying with it.  It is heavier than a wood prop so there is a trade off.  It really helps with fuel burn if you want to oversquare Manifold pressure and lower rpms.  It also has been a great help with high mountain altitude airport take off's.  I can dial in 2700 rpm for take off which helps a bunch.  I also don't have to keep torquing the wood prop hub as the MT is metal.  If you build a really light weight Q200 it would be a great help with all of these respects.  There is a trade off for extra weight though.
Bruce Crain 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "charlie" <ffmd@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 11:56:57 -0500

It would be an electric prop such as Airmaster, https://www.propellor.com/
I personally feel it would offer a substantial improvement due to the airframes wide speed range not to mention the blade selection offering more modern technology.
CharlieN

At 04:41 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:

Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik



Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Martin Skiby
 

Check your weight and balance REAL carefully if you do.  CS props can be very heavy with the extra stuff in the hub.  You may end up with a very heavy plane with adding weight in the tail and that will significantly slow you down also.  So there may be no net benefit.  That is my opinion.

-----------------------------------------

From: "Rik W via Groups.Io"
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Friday December 13 2019 8:41:08AM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik


Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Mike Dwyer
 

At $8,500 or so it's a bit pricey for me.
Mike Dwyer Q200 N3QP

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 11:57 AM charlie <ffmd@...> wrote:
It would be an electric prop such as Airmaster, https://www.propellor.com/
I personally feel it would offer a substantial improvement due to the airframes wide speed range not to mention the blade selection offering more modern technology.
CharlieN

At 04:41 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:
Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik


Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

charlie
 

It would be an electric prop such as Airmaster, https://www.propellor.com/
I personally feel it would offer a substantial improvement due to the airframes wide speed range not to mention the blade selection offering more modern technology.
CharlieN


At 04:41 PM 12/13/2019 +0000, you wrote:
Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik


Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Rik W
 

Can you install a Constant Speed Propeller upon an IO-200?

If so, what would that do for top speeds and takeoff?

Rik


Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Jerry Marstall
 

Good stuff. Thx Corbin


On Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 11:57 AM Rick Hole <r.hole@...> wrote:
Red Green would be proud of you 🙂

Sonia and Rick Hole

On Dec 12, 2019, at 9:19 AM, Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Thanks Jay!  

Funny thing is that I ended up using duct tape to hold it overnight but was worried if I put that in the video I would get the keyboard warriors responding.  It is interesting the kind of stuff people will focus on once it is out there on YouTube.

Thanks for watching!

Corbin Ge!ser

On December 12, 2019 at 9:14 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hey Corbin,

 

Very nice video. You do a lot of work to make a very watchable video. Only one comment. Duct Tape! Could have used duct tape to hold the heating pad in place while it cured.  😊  I love duct Tape.

 

 

Cheers,

Jay N8WQ

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 6:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

 

Good morning all,

 

I uploaded a new video last Friday and thought some here might be interested in watching.  

 

 

 

Corbin Ge!ser






Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Rick Hole
 

Red Green would be proud of you 🙂

Sonia and Rick Hole

On Dec 12, 2019, at 9:19 AM, Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Thanks Jay!  

Funny thing is that I ended up using duct tape to hold it overnight but was worried if I put that in the video I would get the keyboard warriors responding.  It is interesting the kind of stuff people will focus on once it is out there on YouTube.

Thanks for watching!

Corbin Ge!ser

On December 12, 2019 at 9:14 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hey Corbin,

 

Very nice video. You do a lot of work to make a very watchable video. Only one comment. Duct Tape! Could have used duct tape to hold the heating pad in place while it cured.  😊  I love duct Tape.

 

 

Cheers,

Jay N8WQ

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 6:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

 

Good morning all,

 

I uploaded a new video last Friday and thought some here might be interested in watching.  

 

 

 

Corbin Ge!ser






Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Corbin
 

Thank you for this feedback!  This one is fuel injected so I definitely could look into your #1 below.  I think an engine monitor should be my next upgrade; right after ADSB-Out.  

Thanks again!

Corbin Ge!ser

On December 12, 2019 at 9:54 AM, Peter Le Lievre <peter@...> wrote:

Great video, thanks Corbin.

Your fuel burn rates are great. The only way to make them better involves making your plane more complicated (and less reliable) so its hard to argue with your plane just as it is.

I fly a TSIO520P which does offer better fuel burn (lb/hp) but only when LOP. This requires:

1. tuned individual cylinder injection which a carbureted engine does not have.
2. multipoint engine monitor which I do recommend for any plane.
3.higher EGT which reduces exhaust system and exhaust valve life
4. CS Prop for lower cruise RPM.

A lot more complication and perhaps greater engine maintenance costs. I like the Q200 alternative which reverts to he simplest engine possible and instead gets great mileage and speed by adopting the cleanest airframe possible. Nice!

I also noted your liftoff speeds are very low and highlights the truth in any plane, which is when you fly at partial weights, your t/o and landing performances are much better. The old criticism of canards needing lots of runway apply more when flown at gross weight. Lighter weights make for a very attractive performer. And no flaps to worry about (and no gear either!). Perfect!

Thanks again for the video. Helps me dream of taking on my own Q project.




Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Peter Le Lievre
 

Great video, thanks Corbin.

Your fuel burn rates are great. The only way to make them better involves making your plane more complicated (and less reliable) so its hard to argue with your plane just as it is.

I fly a TSIO520P which does offer better fuel burn (lb/hp) but only when LOP. This requires:

1. tuned individual cylinder injection which a carbureted engine does not have.
2. multipoint engine monitor which I do recommend for any plane.
3.higher EGT which reduces exhaust system and exhaust valve life
4. CS Prop for lower cruise RPM.

A lot more complication and perhaps greater engine maintenance costs. I like the Q200 alternative which reverts to he simplest engine possible and instead gets great mileage and speed by adopting the cleanest airframe possible. Nice!

I also noted your liftoff speeds are very low and highlights the truth in any plane, which is when you fly at partial weights, your t/o and landing performances are much better. The old criticism of canards needing lots of runway apply more when flown at gross weight. Lighter weights make for a very attractive performer. And no flaps to worry about (and no gear either!). Perfect!

Thanks again for the video. Helps me dream of taking on my own Q project.


Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Corbin
 

Thanks Jay!  

Funny thing is that I ended up using duct tape to hold it overnight but was worried if I put that in the video I would get the keyboard warriors responding.  It is interesting the kind of stuff people will focus on once it is out there on YouTube.

Thanks for watching!

Corbin Ge!ser

On December 12, 2019 at 9:14 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hey Corbin,

 

Very nice video. You do a lot of work to make a very watchable video. Only one comment. Duct Tape! Could have used duct tape to hold the heating pad in place while it cured.  😊  I love duct Tape.

 

 

Cheers,

Jay N8WQ

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 6:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

 

Good morning all,

 

I uploaded a new video last Friday and thought some here might be interested in watching.  

 

 

 

Corbin Ge!ser






Re: Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Jay Scheevel
 

Hey Corbin,

 

Very nice video. You do a lot of work to make a very watchable video. Only one comment. Duct Tape! Could have used duct tape to hold the heating pad in place while it cured.  😊  I love duct Tape.

 

 

Cheers,

Jay N8WQ

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 6:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

 

Good morning all,

 

I uploaded a new video last Friday and thought some here might be interested in watching.  

 

 

 

Corbin Ge!ser


Quickie Q200 Video for Those Interested

Corbin
 

Good morning all,

I uploaded a new video last Friday and thought some here might be interested in watching.  



Corbin Ge!ser


Re: Tuft Testing Pants & differential brakes

charlie
 

We should probably check if the duplicate photos are and issue these days.
When we all started this electronic journey our photos were quite small and storage space was tiny. We used to count kilobites. Now storage space is counted in Gigabites and a thousand old photos hardly makes a dent in storage.
Granted I am not the one to say so but in my own forums we hardly even notice a few hundred images especially what today in considered low resolution.
It may be that someday the duplicates may become the only ones as we see so many be cleared out without our desire or permission.
CharlieN

At 10:26 AM 12/10/2019 -0600, you wrote:
Thank you, Jay. Interesting photos from Larry's project, thanks for posting them.

In the interest of conserving digital bits, it would probably be best to remove the photos in the Files section, so we don't have duplicates. I am open to suggestions for better ways of handling photos and files.

BTW, in the old Yahoo! group there was an automatic notifications when new files or photos were uploaded. With this new system that doesn't happen, so you did the right thing by announcing the new album, and posting the link.

There is a lot of flexibility in handling the photos. If you go the edit portion for each photo you can add a description, Might be handy for us.

Sam


Re: Tuft Testing Pants & differential brakes

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks Sam. I think you will have to remove the photos from that file. I do not have permission to do that. I think it is best to leave it in the photo album. I put an explanation in the album description.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 9:27 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tuft Testing Pants & differential brakes

 

Thank you, Jay. Interesting photos from Larry's project, thanks for posting them.

 

In the interest of conserving digital bits, it would probably be best to remove the photos in the Files section, so we don't have duplicates. I am open to suggestions for better ways of handling photos and files. 

 

BTW, in the old Yahoo! group there was an automatic notifications when new files or photos were uploaded.  With this new system that doesn't happen, so you did the right thing by announcing the new album, and posting the link.

 

There is a lot of flexibility in handling the photos.  If you go the edit portion for each photo you can add a description,  Might be handy for us.

 

Sam

 

 

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:13 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:


I added photos to an album showing airflow from oil streamlines that were done by Larry Koutz way back when. I included a drawing that I did proposing revised wheel pant design based on Larry's data. Here is the link to the album on this group: https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/album?id=233044

These are duplicates of the ones in the files section: https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files/Oil%20Flow%20Patterns but it is easier to view them online when they are in the photo album. I can delete the album if Sam thinks it is wasting too much disk space to have them in both places.

Also..Sam, I did go back to Yahoo and all of the photos I mentioned are missing there too. I think that Yahoo did a purge a while back and arbitrarily deleted a bunch of files and photos before groups.io got their transfer thing fully in gear.

Cheers,
Jay N8WQ 

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