Date   
Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

David J. Gall
 

Corbin,

I think the 5.00 x 5 tire size is half your trouble. The 4.00 x 5 would be narrower yielding more clearance from sidewall to caliper. 

David J. Gall

On Mar 26, 2020, at 11:38 AM, Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...> wrote:


Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Jay Scheevel
 

That’s good. A photo would be very helpful.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 12:57 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

 

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

 

Corbin


On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?

Jim

N46JP - Q200

 

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

 

Hey guys,

 

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

 

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

 

Corbin


--

Corbin 
N33QR

 

 


--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Corbin
 

I have Air Hawk 500 x 5 4 ply tires.

Corbin

Which size tire do you have installed? I'm showing 4.00-5 on mine.

image.png

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:11 PM Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Actually, I have one after-all...it is a large file for email so I uploaded as an unlisted video on YT:  https://youtu.be/R7v9q9lUnkU

Corbin Ge!ser

On March 26, 2020 at 1:57 PM, "Corbin via Groups.Io" <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR






--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Corbin
 

Hey Mike - these are the same and are drilled with safety wire.

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 2:26 PM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:

Oh, the bolts that hold on the rotor on mine have drilled heads and safety wire.  After 30 years I forget if that was per plans...  If one of those bolts comes loose it could ruin your whole day.
Mike Dwyer

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:18 PM Mike Dwyer via Groups.Io <q200pilot=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Interesting.  With mine, the caliper assy is much closer to the rotor thus giving you more room.  If this is the problem, you'd have to re drill the mounting holes for your brake assy.  Q's used several systems to mount the caliper.  I forget what system I used (LaRue?), but the Factory Design kinda stunk. 
Mike Dwyer  Q200 N3QP

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:11 PM Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Actually, I have one after-all...it is a large file for email so I uploaded as an unlisted video on YT:  https://youtu.be/R7v9q9lUnkU

Corbin Ge!ser

On March 26, 2020 at 1:57 PM, "Corbin via Groups.Io" <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR


--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Corbin
 

Awesome....I will go back and look at some old photos that I took to make sure I place them just like they were.  I’m 100% sure I took photos the very first time I worked on the brakes.

Corbin

On Mar 26, 2020, at 2:12 PM, Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:

Corbin,
The washer placement on the mounting of the caliper was key to getting it to not hit when we put it together.  Make sure all of the washers are exactly where they were.  I believe there were washers used as spacers under the caliper mount.

That it about all the advice I have on that one without seeing it.

-----------------------------------------

From: "Corbin via Groups.Io"
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Thursday March 26 2020 11:56:49AM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Mike Dwyer
 

Oh, the bolts that hold on the rotor on mine have drilled heads and safety wire.  After 30 years I forget if that was per plans...  If one of those bolts comes loose it could ruin your whole day.
Mike Dwyer

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:18 PM Mike Dwyer via Groups.Io <q200pilot=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Interesting.  With mine, the caliper assy is much closer to the rotor thus giving you more room.  If this is the problem, you'd have to re drill the mounting holes for your brake assy.  Q's used several systems to mount the caliper.  I forget what system I used (LaRue?), but the Factory Design kinda stunk. 
Mike Dwyer  Q200 N3QP

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:11 PM Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Actually, I have one after-all...it is a large file for email so I uploaded as an unlisted video on YT:  https://youtu.be/R7v9q9lUnkU

Corbin Ge!ser

On March 26, 2020 at 1:57 PM, "Corbin via Groups.Io" <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Joe Hood
 

Which size tire do you have installed? I'm showing 4.00-5 on mine.

image.png


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:11 PM Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Actually, I have one after-all...it is a large file for email so I uploaded as an unlisted video on YT:  https://youtu.be/R7v9q9lUnkU

Corbin Ge!ser

On March 26, 2020 at 1:57 PM, "Corbin via Groups.Io" <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Mike Dwyer
 

Interesting.  With mine, the caliper assy is much closer to the rotor thus giving you more room.  If this is the problem, you'd have to re drill the mounting holes for your brake assy.  Q's used several systems to mount the caliper.  I forget what system I used (LaRue?), but the Factory Design kinda stunk. 
Mike Dwyer  Q200 N3QP

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:11 PM Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Actually, I have one after-all...it is a large file for email so I uploaded as an unlisted video on YT:  https://youtu.be/R7v9q9lUnkU

Corbin Ge!ser

On March 26, 2020 at 1:57 PM, "Corbin via Groups.Io" <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Martin Skiby
 

Corbin,
The washer placement on the mounting of the caliper was key to getting it to not hit when we put it together.  Make sure all of the washers are exactly where they were.  I believe there were washers used as spacers under the caliper mount.

That it about all the advice I have on that one without seeing it.

-----------------------------------------

From: "Corbin via Groups.Io"
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Thursday March 26 2020 11:56:49AM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR



Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Corbin
 

Actually, I have one after-all...it is a large file for email so I uploaded as an unlisted video on YT:  https://youtu.be/R7v9q9lUnkU

Corbin Ge!ser

On March 26, 2020 at 1:57 PM, "Corbin via Groups.Io" <c_geiser@...> wrote:

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Corbin
 

It is so dark up in the wheel well that I couldn't get a good one.  I will take my endoscope camera out there next time and get a photo/video.  

Corbin

On March 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Jim Patillo
 

You have a pix?
Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:38:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire
 
Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR

Brake (Anvil) Rubbing Tire

Corbin
 

Hey guys,

Some of you saw my photos of the dried brake fluid on my brake caliper and now I have another brake related issue I need your experience to help with.  First, I was able to get the caliper all cleaned up and everything looks good so I am going to keep an eye out for small leaks. 

Now my problem is that the anvil (inside part of the brake caliper) is rubbing up against the tire.  No matter how I try and line it up it still rubs the tire just enough to stop it from spinning freely.  I even thought maybe I have too much air in the tire causing it to bulge out too far.  I will double check that in coming days just in case.  I thought I might could get a grinder and grind down the anvil a 1/4 inch or so.....

Any other thoughts?  I am certain the anvil is correctly installed onto the caliper and the bolts have no issues lining up and going in.  

Corbin

--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks for the standard practice guidance, David. Always appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:09 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Jay,

 

Javafoil, of course! Try to design so that the elevator’s natural float angle is correct for the best rate-of-climb airspeed. This is the desired condition in case of trim failure and/or total loss of elevator control linkage. It’s slow, but allows completion of almost any long overwater flight before fuel exhaustion, and slow enough to do a reasonable job of landing using only power to “flare.” (Or reflex if you have one. 😉)

 

Springs as a primary pitch trim system are always a bad idea. If you use springs, try to use them as “down” springs only, meaning that the spring pushes the elevator in the same direction that forward control stick pressure would push it. The spring should work against the elevator’s natural aerodynamic desire to bring the nose up, except at very slow air speeds (slower than Vy) it’s OK to have a spring helping to bias the nose up, but limit that spring so that you can’t “trim into a stall” at least not at normal or forward CG. 

 

Matthew Curcio could probably chime in here with some industry-standard advice....

 

 

David J. Gall



On Mar 24, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks David,

 

I will keep at it. Maybe I will add a little reflex to the trailing edge. It is possible to design the elevator so pressure loads are essentially zero when it is not deflected. I can load the GU to see what it does, because it did not require sparrow strainers. It may have required some spring assisted trim, I don’t recall.

 

I am using Javafoil. It is Martin Hepperle’s freeware.  I like it because it is simple and I am simple.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Jay,

 

Nice work. Your modified LS1 elevator would go a long way toward reducing the workload required of the sparrow strainers, but you’d still need something like sparrow strainers to push the TE down for normal ops. The Roncz airfoil’s elevator is intentionally designed with a slight “reflex” on the trailing edge just so that it won’t need sparrow strainers or trim tabs. I suppose that with a little more work you could achieve the same with your modified LS1 elevator. 

 

Keep at it!

 

(BTW, what software is that?)

 

 

David J. Gall




On Mar 24, 2020, at 8:38 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Hi Bruce,

 

A few years ago, I tried modeling the existing LS1 and only changing the shape of the elevator to try to eliminate the strong asymmetric pressure on the trailing edge (which is the reason you need the sparrow strainer). The reasoning was, that maybe someday, I would build a new set of elevators with the revised shape and leave the sparrow strainer off because it would not be needed. Here is a comparison of the pressure distribution on the the original LS1 for 0,3,and 6 degrees AOA (first graph) and for the same airfoil with the revised elevator (second graph), which would fit in the same slot. Note the difference in pressure on the top/bottom near the trailing edge. The modified version provides slightly lower lift than the original.

<image002.png>

<image001.png>

<image005.png>

<image006.png>

 

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 9:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I see no Sparrow Strainer!  We've been "punked"!  Shoulda, Coulda Woulda!

B

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:13:28 -0600

Re: Sparrow strainer stall

David J. Gall
 

Jay,

Javafoil, of course! Try to design so that the elevator’s natural float angle is correct for the best rate-of-climb airspeed. This is the desired condition in case of trim failure and/or total loss of elevator control linkage. It’s slow, but allows completion of almost any long overwater flight before fuel exhaustion, and slow enough to do a reasonable job of landing using only power to “flare.” (Or reflex if you have one. 😉)

Springs as a primary pitch trim system are always a bad idea. If you use springs, try to use them as “down” springs only, meaning that the spring pushes the elevator in the same direction that forward control stick pressure would push it. The spring should work against the elevator’s natural aerodynamic desire to bring the nose up, except at very slow air speeds (slower than Vy) it’s OK to have a spring helping to bias the nose up, but limit that spring so that you can’t “trim into a stall” at least not at normal or forward CG. 

Matthew Curcio could probably chime in here with some industry-standard advice....


David J. Gall

On Mar 24, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks David,

 

I will keep at it. Maybe I will add a little reflex to the trailing edge. It is possible to design the elevator so pressure loads are essentially zero when it is not deflected. I can load the GU to see what it does, because it did not require sparrow strainers. It may have required some spring assisted trim, I don’t recall.

 

I am using Javafoil. It is Martin Hepperle’s freeware.  I like it because it is simple and I am simple.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Jay,

 

Nice work. Your modified LS1 elevator would go a long way toward reducing the workload required of the sparrow strainers, but you’d still need something like sparrow strainers to push the TE down for normal ops. The Roncz airfoil’s elevator is intentionally designed with a slight “reflex” on the trailing edge just so that it won’t need sparrow strainers or trim tabs. I suppose that with a little more work you could achieve the same with your modified LS1 elevator. 

 

Keep at it!

 

(BTW, what software is that?)

 

 

David J. Gall



On Mar 24, 2020, at 8:38 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Hi Bruce,

 

A few years ago, I tried modeling the existing LS1 and only changing the shape of the elevator to try to eliminate the strong asymmetric pressure on the trailing edge (which is the reason you need the sparrow strainer). The reasoning was, that maybe someday, I would build a new set of elevators with the revised shape and leave the sparrow strainer off because it would not be needed. Here is a comparison of the pressure distribution on the the original LS1 for 0,3,and 6 degrees AOA (first graph) and for the same airfoil with the revised elevator (second graph), which would fit in the same slot. Note the difference in pressure on the top/bottom near the trailing edge. The modified version provides slightly lower lift than the original.

<image002.png>

<image001.png>

<image005.png>

<image006.png>

 

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 9:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I see no Sparrow Strainer!  We've been "punked"!  Shoulda, Coulda Woulda!

B

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:13:28 -0600

Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks David,

 

I will keep at it. Maybe I will add a little reflex to the trailing edge. It is possible to design the elevator so pressure loads are essentially zero when it is not deflected. I can load the GU to see what it does, because it did not require sparrow strainers. It may have required some spring assisted trim, I don’t recall.

 

I am using Javafoil. It is Martin Hepperle’s freeware.  I like it because it is simple and I am simple.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David J. Gall
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 3:36 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

Jay,

 

Nice work. Your modified LS1 elevator would go a long way toward reducing the workload required of the sparrow strainers, but you’d still need something like sparrow strainers to push the TE down for normal ops. The Roncz airfoil’s elevator is intentionally designed with a slight “reflex” on the trailing edge just so that it won’t need sparrow strainers or trim tabs. I suppose that with a little more work you could achieve the same with your modified LS1 elevator. 

 

Keep at it!

 

(BTW, what software is that?)

 

 

David J. Gall



On Mar 24, 2020, at 8:38 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Hi Bruce,

 

A few years ago, I tried modeling the existing LS1 and only changing the shape of the elevator to try to eliminate the strong asymmetric pressure on the trailing edge (which is the reason you need the sparrow strainer). The reasoning was, that maybe someday, I would build a new set of elevators with the revised shape and leave the sparrow strainer off because it would not be needed. Here is a comparison of the pressure distribution on the the original LS1 for 0,3,and 6 degrees AOA (first graph) and for the same airfoil with the revised elevator (second graph), which would fit in the same slot. Note the difference in pressure on the top/bottom near the trailing edge. The modified version provides slightly lower lift than the original.

<image002.png>

<image001.png>

<image005.png>

<image006.png>

 

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 9:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I see no Sparrow Strainer!  We've been "punked"!  Shoulda, Coulda Woulda!

B

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:13:28 -0600

Re: Sparrow strainer stall

David J. Gall
 

Bruce,

Jay’s elevator needs a bit more “reflex” on its trailing edge before it could completely go without a sparrow strainer or trim tab. But he’s on the right track. 

Washout is not a hindrance to airfoil substitution, but willpower is. Would a Jay Scheevel-modified LS1 be “better” than a Roncz airfoil? Define “better:” if you already have an LS1 canard, changing out the elevator is “better” than building a new canard. If “better” means more suitable for new construction, then having QAC carbon spars on hand might weight the contest. If “better” means “higher cruise speed” or “lower landing speed,” well... you get the idea. 

To me, the Roncz airfoil is appealing for new construction because it’s almost the same thickness as the GU — I think I could fudge it a bit and use the same structure as the GU. BUT, then I’d be limited to the lower gross weight of the Q2 instead of the Q200 unless I beefed up the structure. Then I’d be in structural design and analysis mode, so 🤷‍♂️! However, for the Q1 it would be a drop-in replacement............. 🤔

David J. Gall

On Mar 24, 2020, at 11:23 AM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:


So Jay,
Are you saying that the LS1 with a different elevator would not need a sparrow strainer?  Would it be better than a Roncz canard?
 
I also remember the main wing has wash out.  But I cannot remember if the canard does.  i would have to get out my templates to look unless someone remembers.  If there is wash out that would make designing a Roncz canard off of the templates pretty difficult.  Is it even possible?
Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 09:38:13 -0600

<mime-attachment>

Re: Sparrow strainer stall

David J. Gall
 

Jay,

Nice work. Your modified LS1 elevator would go a long way toward reducing the workload required of the sparrow strainers, but you’d still need something like sparrow strainers to push the TE down for normal ops. The Roncz airfoil’s elevator is intentionally designed with a slight “reflex” on the trailing edge just so that it won’t need sparrow strainers or trim tabs. I suppose that with a little more work you could achieve the same with your modified LS1 elevator. 

Keep at it!

(BTW, what software is that?)


David J. Gall

On Mar 24, 2020, at 8:38 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Hi Bruce,

 

A few years ago, I tried modeling the existing LS1 and only changing the shape of the elevator to try to eliminate the strong asymmetric pressure on the trailing edge (which is the reason you need the sparrow strainer). The reasoning was, that maybe someday, I would build a new set of elevators with the revised shape and leave the sparrow strainer off because it would not be needed. Here is a comparison of the pressure distribution on the the original LS1 for 0,3,and 6 degrees AOA (first graph) and for the same airfoil with the revised elevator (second graph), which would fit in the same slot. Note the difference in pressure on the top/bottom near the trailing edge. The modified version provides slightly lower lift than the original.

<image002.png>

<image001.png>

<image005.png>

<image006.png>

 

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 9:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

I see no Sparrow Strainer!  We've been "punked"!  Shoulda, Coulda Woulda!

B

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:13:28 -0600

Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Bruce Crain
 

Soooo maybe when we meet at Oshkosh for our "40 Year Reunion" this summer we can corner Burt and see if he could advise.  He is available at times.  Huuuumm.
Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 13:47:47 -0600

Re: Sparrow strainer stall

Jay Scheevel
 

With a different elevator, there would be no need for the sparrow strainer, but it would not produce as much lift, so may need more incidence or other adjustments. Not sure about the Roncz canard, I have never modeled it. The LS1 canard also has washout, not as much as the main wing, but I don’t remember how much. Here is a picture of the three: BL16, BL50, and BL100 templates, level lines horizontal and trailing edges matched up.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 12:22 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall

 

So Jay,

Are you saying that the LS1 with a different elevator would not need a sparrow strainer?  Would it be better than a Roncz canard?

 

I also remember the main wing has wash out.  But I cannot remember if the canard does.  i would have to get out my templates to look unless someone remembers.  If there is wash out that would make designing a Roncz canard off of the templates pretty difficult.  Is it even possible?

Bruce

Please note: message attached

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Sparrow strainer stall
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 09:38:13 -0600