Date   

Re: Field of Dreams Reunion 2020!

Jon Finley
 

Good stuff Alan – Thanks!

 

There is another thing that Alan does that is pretty darn smart.  He’s from near sea level and sucks oxygen while up high.  I believe that this is slightly less significant for a person (healthy) that is acclimated to 6,000-7,000’ (flying at 11,000-12,000’) but asking a body to do that from sea level is asking a lot. 

 

Those little finger tip blood oxygen meters (like this one) are pretty cheap and could be of significant benefit!

 

Another thing to consider….

 

Jon


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Re: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Bruce,

 

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

 

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

http://www.n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/All_Text_and_figures_Part1.pdf

http://www.n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/All_Text_and_figures_Part2.pdf

http://www.n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/All_Text_and_figures_Part3.pdf

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

 

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!  

Thanks guys!

Bruce 


Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>
Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT
To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings



Hi Bruce,

 

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

 

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

 

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

 

Thank you!

 

Mike

 

 


Re: Field of Dreams Reunion 2020!

Bruce Crain
 

So glad you made a memory Alan!  As my old hanger mate Charlie used to say “when we finally have to go to the nursing home everyone else will be talking about their last “card hand” and we will be talking about the wonderful trips we made in our experimental aircraft”!
Tripin’ the light fantastic!!
Blessings!
Bruce


On Aug 31, 2020, at 1:39 AM, millenniumflier via groups.io <millenniumflier@...> wrote:



Hi Everybody,


I’ve been following Jon’s thoughts on mountain flying very closely, and yes, Jon was one of the people I had listened to very carefully, especially in preparation for my first flight to Enid from Livermore, California in 2018. And not only Jon, but my flight instructor, and many others here at Livermore and from our Q group. I had spent just about a year in preparing for my first trip out, looking at routes, I had three actually all mapped out, taking into account actual FAA reports of wind, DA, weather conditions, you name it, from the time of year that we typically do the FOD to have a realistic characterization of what to expect.  And being that this was my first long cross-country, I listened well. The Bible teaches that in the abundance of counselors, there is wisdom. Wisdom also lies in not only listening, but also doing what is hopefully going in to the old noggin …. Consequently, I learned a ton of stuff about mountain flying that has served me well in these years since. This stuff is serious, wind can be as unforgiving as gravity, and I learned a long time ago from Marc Zeitlin, “I’d rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than being in the air wishing I was on the ground...” I never forgot that.


All that said, my first trip to Enid from Livermore in 2018, though planned to the smallest detail and as prepared as I felt I could be, turned out much differently than I had expected. Out of three possible routes to follow, and multiple looks at the weather daily, weeks before the event, I chose to basically follow I-40, as it offered the least problematic route, the most appealing in real airports to put the plane down in the event of a forced landing, and the least challenging in wind, terrain, and restricted areas. PLUS, it had the advantage of offering a nice, VERY long and wide runway for the entire route, and paved… namely, I-40. The first leg of my trip was great, Livermore to Bullhead City, KIFP, where I over-nighted. However the following day proved to be unexpectedly challenging. The remnants of Tropical Depression 19 were hovering heavily in the air just before Albuquerque that Wednesday, and despite a very early AM departure, there it was, right smack dab before Albuquerque, over two hours out of KIFP, with no clearing as far as the eye could see, north, or south. One humongously long, black front. The only thing I could do was to pull a 180 and return to Bullhead City, where I knew I had a hotel, and services and then formulate a Plan B. I called Bruce, who suggested that Matthew Curcio in Tehachapi was planning on attending, and was leaving the following day, and maybe I could follow him out. Turned out to be a great plan, and though un-planned to make that flight all in one day, and not following I-40, but staying well south of the Rockies nevertheless, that’s what happened: Tehachapi to Moore County, where we re-fueled, and pulled in to Enid that afternoon. Thanks again, Matthew!  I would never have flown that leg by myself.  My return to Livermore was much more conventional, allowing me to use my plan and it was a textbook flight, departing on each of my 3 legs EARLY AM and pulling in to my next destination well before the winds had a chance of picking up.  


Last year, 2019, no rain at all enroute, and being similarly prepared, I once again chose to follow I-40, and again, it was textbook. Livermore to Bullhead City, then Kingman, Williams Clark, Winslow, (REALLY cool to see the Meteor Crater!), P14, Grants, Albuquerque, Santa Rosa, Tucumcari (GREAT dinosaur museum!), Amarillo, Woodward, Enid. Jon Finley had flown in to Tucumcari very early Thursday AM, and we departed as a flight of 2 to Enid, and arrived well before lunch. No wind to speak of, no getting beat up in the air, no sneaker winds, really good flying weather, and no worries about altitude or restricted areas. My return was equally as enjoyable, though I decided not to overnight again in Tucumcari, due to challenging weather passing through the following day that I wanted to beat, so I went on to Bullhead City after getting fuel, and landed well ahead of the weather, after a really great flight. Winds were mercifully calm but again, we had left Enid early enough to avoid the really bad stuff that usually accumulates in the mid-afternoons.


Anyway, I know this went on longer than I had anticipated, but I wanted to emphasize that for me, as a relatively low-time pilot, with 450 hours, I knew I needed to be prepared, to make a plan and stick with it, and don’t court the unexpected… or turn to the dark side...  again, I don’t want to be in the air, wishing I was on the ground. Rather, I count myself wiser, safer and still alive, being cautious yet smart in doing things right. I say all this, adding that I’m also the original chicken, and for my first long cross-countries, I’m grateful for all who shared with me things that I needed to know and be aware of years ahead. My thanks again to Jon, Bruce, Paul, Terry, Bob Farnam, and countless others who spent time with me on the phone, sharing their experience and wisdom, and making my first long cross-country flight memorable for the right reasons!


Alan

P.S. For my trip last year, shameless plug here, check out my video that i posted on YouTube, if you haven't already seen it, a fun encapsulation of our FOD last year.  Google:  2019 Field of Dreams Enid OK

Search Results

From: Jon Finley <jd@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 5:38 am
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Field of Dreams Reunion 2020!

It appears I got your attention – that’s good, mountain flying is serious – and especially so during the summer. 

 

Now, to back it down a notch…

 

The capability of the aircraft is of great importance to this discussion, obviously. Some aircraft have no business in the mountains. In this case (your O-320 powered RV-6), it has good performance/capability (assuming typical RV).

 

Mountain west flying is much different than non-mountainous areas. In most non-mountainous areas, one can look out the window and make a reasonably good determination about the suitability for VFR flying. Clouds, visibility and wind is pretty obvious. In most cases, all you need is a couple thousand feet to get from A to B.

 

In the southwest, 365 days a year are flyable VFR (pessimistically, 363 days). The clouds that occur are almost always high, thunderstorms are very obvious (from 50 miles away) and visibility is nearly always 50-100 miles. Depending on your location, the wind may be calm/minimal (especially in the morning). However; the mountains really mess with the APPARENT conditions. You will likely need to climb to 10,000’ to get from point A to B.  Wind at altitude is like a mixing machine and causes all sorts of “movement” close to the surface. It also “directs” the wind so you can get very high canyon wind at point A while point B (a couple miles away) is calm. They (mountains) also cause very uneven heating & thus thermals.  These two things (winds aloft and heating) can make for a VERY rough ride. I know a guy that destroyed a C-210 flying over the mountains on the wrong day. He never touched the ground but landed with an airframe so bent/twisted that it was unrepairable. Morning flying generally avoids the heating/thermal affect. The only thing you can do about winds aloft is watch the forecast (https://aviationweather.gov/windtemp/plot) for the day and time that you will be airborne (Windy.com is another excellent tool).  Rarely do significant moisture systems (clouds) move thru at an altitude low enough to be of concern. When they do, they are obvious/visible from a long ways away and easily avoided.

 

You can certainly fly in the afternoon on a summer day. One can “plan” well in advance but it is impossible to make a decision about that plan more than a couple of days in advance. This is largely due to the winds aloft forecast. I have the advantage of flying a lot and being very familiar with the entire southwest and I don’t plan more than a day or two out.

 

While I don’t like hearing about unprepared people flying the mountains, I also don’t like to see people unnecessarily avoiding the mountains. IMO, that flying is about as beautiful as it gets and so many folks miss out on it.

 

If I were flying SAN -> TCS and weather/winds aloft acceptable, I would be airborne at the crack of dawn and fly SAN -> AZ06 -> CGZ (fuel stop) -> TCS. I would divert slightly north of course to view Coolidge Dam (cause it is really cool). Not sure about the -6 but, in the -4, this is possible without a fuel stop if wind is favorable. I like having options so would make the one fuel stop - CGZ appears to have the cheapest fuel in the area. If I got REALLY hungry and not in a hurry; I might stop at P13 (San Carlos Apache – no services), walk across the street to the casinos, and have a big casino breakfast (not sure if they are open in these Covid times). If you like adding ‘places I’ve landed’ to your logbook; Eloy (E60 – where Viking Aircraft once existed with the Dragonfly (though can be a busy place)) and Kearny (E67 – very pretty little spot) are neat options.  This route will take you over the Gila Wilderness area (beautiful) and MeOwn (1NM0) which is one of our backcountry airstrips that I visit often. 

 

I gave Alan this same speech a couple years ago (more northern route over FLG). It would be interesting to hear his perspective on it now that he has flown it the last couple years.

 

Will the winds be ok at 6pm? How about noon? Ask me the day before the flight.

 

Yes, the southern half of the restricted airspace around White Sands requires flying the narrow corridor that is basically highway 54 (to get to ALM).

 

Yes, I can haul a “reasonably sized” bag or two.

 

If anyone is tired of this discussion, please speak up and we’ll swap to private messages.

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phil Lankford via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 7:29 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Field of Dreams Reunion 2020!

 

Thanks, Bruce and Jon. So, planning to meet up with Jon in TCS and flight of 2 from there. That means I need to be in TCS some time Wednesday. Jon is advising that mornings good, afternoons bad! If I tried to drop into TCS Wednesday pm the temps would still likely be in the 90s but hopefully the winds would calm down toward 6:00 pm maybe?   I might feel alright about that if weather permits. Otherwise I will launch out early Wednesday and get in to TCS around 10:00 am. I’m afraid Jon is going to give me a talking to. 

 

Another thought to ponder - if I fly out solo I might be able to pick up John Hoxie at ALM. Do folks fly up hwy 54 from ELP to ALM along that corridor between restricted areas?

 

Phil

N76GZ RV6-A




Re: Field of Dreams Reunion 2020!

millenniumflier@...
 

Hi Everybody,


I’ve been following Jon’s thoughts on mountain flying very closely, and yes, Jon was one of the people I had listened to very carefully, especially in preparation for my first flight to Enid from Livermore, California in 2018. And not only Jon, but my flight instructor, and many others here at Livermore and from our Q group. I had spent just about a year in preparing for my first trip out, looking at routes, I had three actually all mapped out, taking into account actual FAA reports of wind, DA, weather conditions, you name it, from the time of year that we typically do the FOD to have a realistic characterization of what to expect.  And being that this was my first long cross-country, I listened well. The Bible teaches that in the abundance of counselors, there is wisdom. Wisdom also lies in not only listening, but also doing what is hopefully going in to the old noggin …. Consequently, I learned a ton of stuff about mountain flying that has served me well in these years since. This stuff is serious, wind can be as unforgiving as gravity, and I learned a long time ago from Marc Zeitlin, “I’d rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than being in the air wishing I was on the ground...” I never forgot that.


All that said, my first trip to Enid from Livermore in 2018, though planned to the smallest detail and as prepared as I felt I could be, turned out much differently than I had expected. Out of three possible routes to follow, and multiple looks at the weather daily, weeks before the event, I chose to basically follow I-40, as it offered the least problematic route, the most appealing in real airports to put the plane down in the event of a forced landing, and the least challenging in wind, terrain, and restricted areas. PLUS, it had the advantage of offering a nice, VERY long and wide runway for the entire route, and paved… namely, I-40. The first leg of my trip was great, Livermore to Bullhead City, KIFP, where I over-nighted. However the following day proved to be unexpectedly challenging. The remnants of Tropical Depression 19 were hovering heavily in the air just before Albuquerque that Wednesday, and despite a very early AM departure, there it was, right smack dab before Albuquerque, over two hours out of KIFP, with no clearing as far as the eye could see, north, or south. One humongously long, black front. The only thing I could do was to pull a 180 and return to Bullhead City, where I knew I had a hotel, and services and then formulate a Plan B. I called Bruce, who suggested that Matthew Curcio in Tehachapi was planning on attending, and was leaving the following day, and maybe I could follow him out. Turned out to be a great plan, and though un-planned to make that flight all in one day, and not following I-40, but staying well south of the Rockies nevertheless, that’s what happened: Tehachapi to Moore County, where we re-fueled, and pulled in to Enid that afternoon. Thanks again, Matthew!  I would never have flown that leg by myself.  My return to Livermore was much more conventional, allowing me to use my plan and it was a textbook flight, departing on each of my 3 legs EARLY AM and pulling in to my next destination well before the winds had a chance of picking up.  


Last year, 2019, no rain at all enroute, and being similarly prepared, I once again chose to follow I-40, and again, it was textbook. Livermore to Bullhead City, then Kingman, Williams Clark, Winslow, (REALLY cool to see the Meteor Crater!), P14, Grants, Albuquerque, Santa Rosa, Tucumcari (GREAT dinosaur museum!), Amarillo, Woodward, Enid. Jon Finley had flown in to Tucumcari very early Thursday AM, and we departed as a flight of 2 to Enid, and arrived well before lunch. No wind to speak of, no getting beat up in the air, no sneaker winds, really good flying weather, and no worries about altitude or restricted areas. My return was equally as enjoyable, though I decided not to overnight again in Tucumcari, due to challenging weather passing through the following day that I wanted to beat, so I went on to Bullhead City after getting fuel, and landed well ahead of the weather, after a really great flight. Winds were mercifully calm but again, we had left Enid early enough to avoid the really bad stuff that usually accumulates in the mid-afternoons.


Anyway, I know this went on longer than I had anticipated, but I wanted to emphasize that for me, as a relatively low-time pilot, with 450 hours, I knew I needed to be prepared, to make a plan and stick with it, and don’t court the unexpected… or turn to the dark side...  again, I don’t want to be in the air, wishing I was on the ground. Rather, I count myself wiser, safer and still alive, being cautious yet smart in doing things right. I say all this, adding that I’m also the original chicken, and for my first long cross-countries, I’m grateful for all who shared with me things that I needed to know and be aware of years ahead. My thanks again to Jon, Bruce, Paul, Terry, Bob Farnam, and countless others who spent time with me on the phone, sharing their experience and wisdom, and making my first long cross-country flight memorable for the right reasons!


Alan

P.S. For my trip last year, shameless plug here, check out my video that i posted on YouTube, if you haven't already seen it, a fun encapsulation of our FOD last year.  Google:  2019 Field of Dreams Enid OK

Search Results

Web results


-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Finley <jd@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 5:38 am
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Field of Dreams Reunion 2020!

It appears I got your attention – that’s good, mountain flying is serious – and especially so during the summer. 

 

Now, to back it down a notch…

 

The capability of the aircraft is of great importance to this discussion, obviously. Some aircraft have no business in the mountains. In this case (your O-320 powered RV-6), it has good performance/capability (assuming typical RV).

 

Mountain west flying is much different than non-mountainous areas. In most non-mountainous areas, one can look out the window and make a reasonably good determination about the suitability for VFR flying. Clouds, visibility and wind is pretty obvious. In most cases, all you need is a couple thousand feet to get from A to B.

 

In the southwest, 365 days a year are flyable VFR (pessimistically, 363 days). The clouds that occur are almost always high, thunderstorms are very obvious (from 50 miles away) and visibility is nearly always 50-100 miles. Depending on your location, the wind may be calm/minimal (especially in the morning). However; the mountains really mess with the APPARENT conditions. You will likely need to climb to 10,000’ to get from point A to B.  Wind at altitude is like a mixing machine and causes all sorts of “movement” close to the surface. It also “directs” the wind so you can get very high canyon wind at point A while point B (a couple miles away) is calm. They (mountains) also cause very uneven heating & thus thermals.  These two things (winds aloft and heating) can make for a VERY rough ride. I know a guy that destroyed a C-210 flying over the mountains on the wrong day. He never touched the ground but landed with an airframe so bent/twisted that it was unrepairable. Morning flying generally avoids the heating/thermal affect. The only thing you can do about winds aloft is watch the forecast (https://aviationweather.gov/windtemp/plot) for the day and time that you will be airborne (Windy.com is another excellent tool).  Rarely do significant moisture systems (clouds) move thru at an altitude low enough to be of concern. When they do, they are obvious/visible from a long ways away and easily avoided.

 

You can certainly fly in the afternoon on a summer day. One can “plan” well in advance but it is impossible to make a decision about that plan more than a couple of days in advance. This is largely due to the winds aloft forecast. I have the advantage of flying a lot and being very familiar with the entire southwest and I don’t plan more than a day or two out.

 

While I don’t like hearing about unprepared people flying the mountains, I also don’t like to see people unnecessarily avoiding the mountains. IMO, that flying is about as beautiful as it gets and so many folks miss out on it.

 

If I were flying SAN -> TCS and weather/winds aloft acceptable, I would be airborne at the crack of dawn and fly SAN -> AZ06 -> CGZ (fuel stop) -> TCS. I would divert slightly north of course to view Coolidge Dam (cause it is really cool). Not sure about the -6 but, in the -4, this is possible without a fuel stop if wind is favorable. I like having options so would make the one fuel stop - CGZ appears to have the cheapest fuel in the area. If I got REALLY hungry and not in a hurry; I might stop at P13 (San Carlos Apache – no services), walk across the street to the casinos, and have a big casino breakfast (not sure if they are open in these Covid times). If you like adding ‘places I’ve landed’ to your logbook; Eloy (E60 – where Viking Aircraft once existed with the Dragonfly (though can be a busy place)) and Kearny (E67 – very pretty little spot) are neat options.  This route will take you over the Gila Wilderness area (beautiful) and MeOwn (1NM0) which is one of our backcountry airstrips that I visit often. 

 

I gave Alan this same speech a couple years ago (more northern route over FLG). It would be interesting to hear his perspective on it now that he has flown it the last couple years.

 

Will the winds be ok at 6pm? How about noon? Ask me the day before the flight.

 

Yes, the southern half of the restricted airspace around White Sands requires flying the narrow corridor that is basically highway 54 (to get to ALM).

 

Yes, I can haul a “reasonably sized” bag or two.

 

If anyone is tired of this discussion, please speak up and we’ll swap to private messages.

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phil Lankford via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 7:29 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Field of Dreams Reunion 2020!

 

Thanks, Bruce and Jon. So, planning to meet up with Jon in TCS and flight of 2 from there. That means I need to be in TCS some time Wednesday. Jon is advising that mornings good, afternoons bad! If I tried to drop into TCS Wednesday pm the temps would still likely be in the 90s but hopefully the winds would calm down toward 6:00 pm maybe?   I might feel alright about that if weather permits. Otherwise I will launch out early Wednesday and get in to TCS around 10:00 am. I’m afraid Jon is going to give me a talking to. 

 

Another thought to ponder - if I fly out solo I might be able to pick up John Hoxie at ALM. Do folks fly up hwy 54 from ELP to ALM along that corridor between restricted areas?

 

Phil

N76GZ RV6-A


Re: View From the Hangar

Jay Scheevel
 

That's one beautiful bird, Kieth. Thanks for sharing that photo!

Cheers,
Jay

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Keith Welsh <klw494@...> wrote:

Rich,
Primer on...sand primer off, primer on...sand primer off,  primer on....sand primer off...then maybe paint.
Pretty simple....don't ya know!!
Not exactly kidding.  As many know one can never over do sanding on glass airplanes.

There are many good waxes out there but I've always used one called Nu-Finish. 
If I remember correctly, it was one of the early polymer once a year car waxes.
Started using it on farm equipment in the "70's" when it came out.  It beat everything at the time...never stopped using it.
for anyone with nothin to do...
In the March 1998 issue of Sport Aviation page 109 is a photo of one of our tractors that wax was used on.
Thanks for askin

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 2:03 PM Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

Another great shine Keith, what is your secret ?

Rich T.

On 30/08/2020 15:52, Keith Welsh wrote:
Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh

image.png



Re: View From the Hangar

Jay Foss
 

Very sad to hear that! 


On Aug 30, 2020, at 3:02 PM, Richard Kaczmarek 3RD <fastlittleairplanes@...> wrote:

The end of our 27 year love affair.

Richard 

<IMG_20190714_223236_519.jpg>


Re: View From the Hangar

Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

The end of our 27 year love affair.

Richard 


Question on Canards and Main Wings

Bruce Crain
 

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!  
Thanks guys!
Bruce 


Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>
Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT
To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings


Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike




Re: View From the Hangar

 

Rich,
Primer on...sand primer off, primer on...sand primer off,  primer on....sand primer off...then maybe paint.
Pretty simple....don't ya know!!
Not exactly kidding.  As many know one can never over do sanding on glass airplanes.

There are many good waxes out there but I've always used one called Nu-Finish. 
If I remember correctly, it was one of the early polymer once a year car waxes.
Started using it on farm equipment in the "70's" when it came out.  It beat everything at the time...never stopped using it.
for anyone with nothin to do...
In the March 1998 issue of Sport Aviation page 109 is a photo of one of our tractors that wax was used on.
Thanks for askin

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 2:03 PM Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

Another great shine Keith, what is your secret ?

Rich T.

On 30/08/2020 15:52, Keith Welsh wrote:
Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh

image.png



Re: View From the Hangar

Richard Thomson
 

Another great shine Keith, what is your secret ?

Rich T.

On 30/08/2020 15:52, Keith Welsh wrote:
Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh

image.png



Re: Leaning for High DA

Peter Le Lievre <peter@...>
 

PS. its good airmanship to glance at your full power EGT's on every take off. They are the best indicator you have that the engine is doing what it should. 


Re: View From the Hangar

Ryszard Zadow
 

Great shot of a very nice Q1!

Ryszard 

On Aug 30, 2020, at 10:56, Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...> wrote:

Beautiful!  Jerry 

-------- Original message --------
From: Keith Welsh <klw494@...>
Date: 8/30/20 11:49 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] View From the Hangar

Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh





Re: View From the Hangar

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Beautiful!  Jerry 

-------- Original message --------
From: Keith Welsh <klw494@...>
Date: 8/30/20 11:49 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] View From the Hangar

Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh





Re: View From the Hangar

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Beautiful!  Jerry 

-------- Original message --------
From: Keith Welsh <klw494@...>
Date: 8/30/20 11:49 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] View From the Hangar

Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh





View From the Hangar

 

Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh

image.png



Re: Mid-Day flight out of Yuma

John Hoxie
 

Phil,
Gabe wouldn't want to fly his Vari Eze there?

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 08:40:38 PM MDT, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:


Phil,
Thanx for the clarification and update. Today, on my sister's golden anniversary, I put up a couple fliers, handed out one and just sent an email to my chapter emailer to disseminate with the flier I made up today that includes the FOD website. Perhaps someone at KALM will want to fly there. Met two more people for the first time at the airport today. One a retired air force academy officer that can only fly gliders has his own) now. I'm sure he cold fly light sport and ultralights also. 

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 08:07:07 PM MDT, Phil Lankford via groups.io <britmcman@...> wrote:


Hello John H.: the Tri-Q belongs to Patrick R. and it was necessary to move it off Yuma as all the FBOs are moving toward big jets. A fellow at my field, Gabriel, has graciously offered hangar space as a part of a two month trial evaluation for a potential purchase. Gabe is also a fast glass guy with a vari-EZE so has a good grasp of the territory. Gabe may be able to join me for a trip to Enid for the Field of Dreams. He could soak up a bunch of Quickie wisdom on a trip like that. If for some reason he is not able to make the trip I’ll be happy to pick you up in TCS. I should know in a day or two. Phil


On Aug 29, 2020, at 11:52 AM, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:

Congrats to Patrick! Will this be his maiden flight? Are you Phil flying Pat to FOD?


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:12 PM, Phil Lankford via groups.io
<britmcman@...> wrote:
Well, here I am with my new friend Patrick Rameau. We are bringing his plane to KSEE by trailer. 
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>



On Aug 29, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:



😊

 

Right!  Some setups will actually stumble and quit when you go to full throttle at very high DA with full rich.  That usually get’s a person attention pretty quick!

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Jon,

 

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

 

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>


Re: Mid-Day flight out of Yuma

John Hoxie
 

Phil,
Thanx for the clarification and update. Today, on my sister's golden anniversary, I put up a couple fliers, handed out one and just sent an email to my chapter emailer to disseminate with the flier I made up today that includes the FOD website. Perhaps someone at KALM will want to fly there. Met two more people for the first time at the airport today. One a retired air force academy officer that can only fly gliders has his own) now. I'm sure he cold fly light sport and ultralights also. 

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 08:07:07 PM MDT, Phil Lankford via groups.io <britmcman@...> wrote:


Hello John H.: the Tri-Q belongs to Patrick R. and it was necessary to move it off Yuma as all the FBOs are moving toward big jets. A fellow at my field, Gabriel, has graciously offered hangar space as a part of a two month trial evaluation for a potential purchase. Gabe is also a fast glass guy with a vari-EZE so has a good grasp of the territory. Gabe may be able to join me for a trip to Enid for the Field of Dreams. He could soak up a bunch of Quickie wisdom on a trip like that. If for some reason he is not able to make the trip I’ll be happy to pick you up in TCS. I should know in a day or two. Phil


On Aug 29, 2020, at 11:52 AM, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:

Congrats to Patrick! Will this be his maiden flight? Are you Phil flying Pat to FOD?


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:12 PM, Phil Lankford via groups.io
<britmcman@...> wrote:
Well, here I am with my new friend Patrick Rameau. We are bringing his plane to KSEE by trailer. 
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>



On Aug 29, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:



😊

 

Right!  Some setups will actually stumble and quit when you go to full throttle at very high DA with full rich.  That usually get’s a person attention pretty quick!

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Jon,

 

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

 

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>


Re: Mid-Day flight out of Yuma

britmcman99
 

Hello John H.: the Tri-Q belongs to Patrick R. and it was necessary to move it off Yuma as all the FBOs are moving toward big jets. A fellow at my field, Gabriel, has graciously offered hangar space as a part of a two month trial evaluation for a potential purchase. Gabe is also a fast glass guy with a vari-EZE so has a good grasp of the territory. Gabe may be able to join me for a trip to Enid for the Field of Dreams. He could soak up a bunch of Quickie wisdom on a trip like that. If for some reason he is not able to make the trip I’ll be happy to pick you up in TCS. I should know in a day or two. Phil


On Aug 29, 2020, at 11:52 AM, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:

Congrats to Patrick! Will this be his maiden flight? Are you Phil flying Pat to FOD?


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:12 PM, Phil Lankford via groups.io
<britmcman@...> wrote:
Well, here I am with my new friend Patrick Rameau. We are bringing his plane to KSEE by trailer. 
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>



On Aug 29, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:



😊

 

Right!  Some setups will actually stumble and quit when you go to full throttle at very high DA with full rich.  That usually get’s a person attention pretty quick!

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Jon,

 

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

 

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>


Re: Leaning for High DA

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Thanks Peter.  Sounds like it’s good timing that I’m adding a new engine analyzer so I can really dial in on the EGT’s.

Corbin

On Aug 29, 2020, at 5:14 PM, Peter Le Lievre <peter@...> wrote:

Corbin,

What you are looking for is the normal EGT's you would expect to see at lower alts.

On my aircraft they are all 1300-1350 at full power. Yours may differ.

If you see lower EGT's you can/should lean.  If you are not comfortable doing it on the roll then do a normal takeoff and glance at your EGT's a few seconds after full power. If they are way low (say 100F lower than 'usual') then abort the takeoff, taxi back and try again until you get the feel of what mixture is needed for what density altitude.   As discussed, many aircraft will not need leaning at all, but some will so its worth checking.

--

Corbin 
N33QR


Re: Leaning for High DA

Peter Le Lievre <peter@...>
 

Corbin,

What you are looking for is the normal EGT's you would expect to see at lower alts.

On my aircraft they are all 1300-1350 at full power. Yours may differ.

If you see lower EGT's you can/should lean.  If you are not comfortable doing it on the roll then do a normal takeoff and glance at your EGT's a few seconds after full power. If they are way low (say 100F lower than 'usual') then abort the takeoff, taxi back and try again until you get the feel of what mixture is needed for what density altitude.   As discussed, many aircraft will not need leaning at all, but some will so its worth checking.

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