Date   

Re: View From the Hangar

 

Rich,
Primer on...sand primer off, primer on...sand primer off,  primer on....sand primer off...then maybe paint.
Pretty simple....don't ya know!!
Not exactly kidding.  As many know one can never over do sanding on glass airplanes.

There are many good waxes out there but I've always used one called Nu-Finish. 
If I remember correctly, it was one of the early polymer once a year car waxes.
Started using it on farm equipment in the "70's" when it came out.  It beat everything at the time...never stopped using it.
for anyone with nothin to do...
In the March 1998 issue of Sport Aviation page 109 is a photo of one of our tractors that wax was used on.
Thanks for askin

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 2:03 PM Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

Another great shine Keith, what is your secret ?

Rich T.

On 30/08/2020 15:52, Keith Welsh wrote:
Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh

image.png



Re: View From the Hangar

Richard Thomson
 

Another great shine Keith, what is your secret ?

Rich T.

On 30/08/2020 15:52, Keith Welsh wrote:

Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh

image.png



Re: Leaning for High DA

Peter Le Lievre <peter@...>
 

PS. its good airmanship to glance at your full power EGT's on every take off. They are the best indicator you have that the engine is doing what it should. 


Re: View From the Hangar

Ryszard Zadow
 

Great shot of a very nice Q1!

Ryszard 

On Aug 30, 2020, at 10:56, Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...> wrote:

Beautiful!  Jerry 

-------- Original message --------
From: Keith Welsh <klw494@...>
Date: 8/30/20 11:49 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] View From the Hangar

Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh





Re: View From the Hangar

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Beautiful!  Jerry 

-------- Original message --------
From: Keith Welsh <klw494@...>
Date: 8/30/20 11:49 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] View From the Hangar

Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh





Re: View From the Hangar

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Beautiful!  Jerry 

-------- Original message --------
From: Keith Welsh <klw494@...>
Date: 8/30/20 11:49 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] View From the Hangar

Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh





View From the Hangar

 

Hello,
Here's another Hangar shot.
Finally a Q1.
This one comin to ya from Terre Haute Regional Airport, Terre Haute, IN of N494K.
Keith Welsh

image.png



Re: Mid-Day flight out of Yuma

John Hoxie
 

Phil,
Gabe wouldn't want to fly his Vari Eze there?

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 08:40:38 PM MDT, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:


Phil,
Thanx for the clarification and update. Today, on my sister's golden anniversary, I put up a couple fliers, handed out one and just sent an email to my chapter emailer to disseminate with the flier I made up today that includes the FOD website. Perhaps someone at KALM will want to fly there. Met two more people for the first time at the airport today. One a retired air force academy officer that can only fly gliders has his own) now. I'm sure he cold fly light sport and ultralights also. 

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 08:07:07 PM MDT, Phil Lankford via groups.io <britmcman@...> wrote:


Hello John H.: the Tri-Q belongs to Patrick R. and it was necessary to move it off Yuma as all the FBOs are moving toward big jets. A fellow at my field, Gabriel, has graciously offered hangar space as a part of a two month trial evaluation for a potential purchase. Gabe is also a fast glass guy with a vari-EZE so has a good grasp of the territory. Gabe may be able to join me for a trip to Enid for the Field of Dreams. He could soak up a bunch of Quickie wisdom on a trip like that. If for some reason he is not able to make the trip I’ll be happy to pick you up in TCS. I should know in a day or two. Phil


On Aug 29, 2020, at 11:52 AM, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:

Congrats to Patrick! Will this be his maiden flight? Are you Phil flying Pat to FOD?


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:12 PM, Phil Lankford via groups.io
<britmcman@...> wrote:
Well, here I am with my new friend Patrick Rameau. We are bringing his plane to KSEE by trailer. 
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>



On Aug 29, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:



😊

 

Right!  Some setups will actually stumble and quit when you go to full throttle at very high DA with full rich.  That usually get’s a person attention pretty quick!

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Jon,

 

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

 

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>


Re: Mid-Day flight out of Yuma

John Hoxie
 

Phil,
Thanx for the clarification and update. Today, on my sister's golden anniversary, I put up a couple fliers, handed out one and just sent an email to my chapter emailer to disseminate with the flier I made up today that includes the FOD website. Perhaps someone at KALM will want to fly there. Met two more people for the first time at the airport today. One a retired air force academy officer that can only fly gliders has his own) now. I'm sure he cold fly light sport and ultralights also. 

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Saturday, August 29, 2020, 08:07:07 PM MDT, Phil Lankford via groups.io <britmcman@...> wrote:


Hello John H.: the Tri-Q belongs to Patrick R. and it was necessary to move it off Yuma as all the FBOs are moving toward big jets. A fellow at my field, Gabriel, has graciously offered hangar space as a part of a two month trial evaluation for a potential purchase. Gabe is also a fast glass guy with a vari-EZE so has a good grasp of the territory. Gabe may be able to join me for a trip to Enid for the Field of Dreams. He could soak up a bunch of Quickie wisdom on a trip like that. If for some reason he is not able to make the trip I’ll be happy to pick you up in TCS. I should know in a day or two. Phil


On Aug 29, 2020, at 11:52 AM, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:

Congrats to Patrick! Will this be his maiden flight? Are you Phil flying Pat to FOD?


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:12 PM, Phil Lankford via groups.io
<britmcman@...> wrote:
Well, here I am with my new friend Patrick Rameau. We are bringing his plane to KSEE by trailer. 
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>



On Aug 29, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:



😊

 

Right!  Some setups will actually stumble and quit when you go to full throttle at very high DA with full rich.  That usually get’s a person attention pretty quick!

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Jon,

 

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

 

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>


Re: Mid-Day flight out of Yuma

britmcman99
 

Hello John H.: the Tri-Q belongs to Patrick R. and it was necessary to move it off Yuma as all the FBOs are moving toward big jets. A fellow at my field, Gabriel, has graciously offered hangar space as a part of a two month trial evaluation for a potential purchase. Gabe is also a fast glass guy with a vari-EZE so has a good grasp of the territory. Gabe may be able to join me for a trip to Enid for the Field of Dreams. He could soak up a bunch of Quickie wisdom on a trip like that. If for some reason he is not able to make the trip I’ll be happy to pick you up in TCS. I should know in a day or two. Phil


On Aug 29, 2020, at 11:52 AM, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:

Congrats to Patrick! Will this be his maiden flight? Are you Phil flying Pat to FOD?


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:12 PM, Phil Lankford via groups.io
<britmcman@...> wrote:
Well, here I am with my new friend Patrick Rameau. We are bringing his plane to KSEE by trailer. 
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>



On Aug 29, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:



😊

 

Right!  Some setups will actually stumble and quit when you go to full throttle at very high DA with full rich.  That usually get’s a person attention pretty quick!

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Jon,

 

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

 

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>


Re: Leaning for High DA

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Thanks Peter.  Sounds like it’s good timing that I’m adding a new engine analyzer so I can really dial in on the EGT’s.

Corbin

On Aug 29, 2020, at 5:14 PM, Peter Le Lievre <peter@...> wrote:

Corbin,

What you are looking for is the normal EGT's you would expect to see at lower alts.

On my aircraft they are all 1300-1350 at full power. Yours may differ.

If you see lower EGT's you can/should lean.  If you are not comfortable doing it on the roll then do a normal takeoff and glance at your EGT's a few seconds after full power. If they are way low (say 100F lower than 'usual') then abort the takeoff, taxi back and try again until you get the feel of what mixture is needed for what density altitude.   As discussed, many aircraft will not need leaning at all, but some will so its worth checking.

--

Corbin 
N33QR


Re: Leaning for High DA

Peter Le Lievre <peter@...>
 

Corbin,

What you are looking for is the normal EGT's you would expect to see at lower alts.

On my aircraft they are all 1300-1350 at full power. Yours may differ.

If you see lower EGT's you can/should lean.  If you are not comfortable doing it on the roll then do a normal takeoff and glance at your EGT's a few seconds after full power. If they are way low (say 100F lower than 'usual') then abort the takeoff, taxi back and try again until you get the feel of what mixture is needed for what density altitude.   As discussed, many aircraft will not need leaning at all, but some will so its worth checking.


Re: Mid-Day flight out of Yuma

John Hoxie
 

Congrats to Patrick! Will this be his maiden flight? Are you Phil flying Pat to FOD?


On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 12:12 PM, Phil Lankford via groups.io
<britmcman@...> wrote:
Well, here I am with my new friend Patrick Rameau. We are bringing his plane to KSEE by trailer. 


On Aug 29, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:



😊

 

Right!  Some setups will actually stumble and quit when you go to full throttle at very high DA with full rich.  That usually get’s a person attention pretty quick!

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Jon,

 

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

 

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Re: Mid-Day flight out of Yuma

britmcman99
 

Well, here I am with my new friend Patrick Rameau. We are bringing his plane to KSEE by trailer. 


On Aug 29, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:



😊

 

Right!  Some setups will actually stumble and quit when you go to full throttle at very high DA with full rich.  That usually get’s a person attention pretty quick!

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Jon,

 

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

 

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Re: Leaning for High DA

Jon Finley
 

😊

 

Right!  Some setups will actually stumble and quit when you go to full throttle at very high DA with full rich.  That usually get’s a person attention pretty quick!

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 6:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Jon,

 

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

 

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Re: Leaning for High DA

Jay Scheevel
 

Jon,

Pretty much did the same as you for my previous plane with the O-540, which had a constant speed prop. Still had the same "feel" approach you talk about. My DA's run between 4000 and 10000 at take off depending on the season. Bottom line: no reason to be full rich at high DA.

My Jabiru is a little different (like me), but I follow the same philosophy, even though the procedure differs slightly and will be of little interest to the group here.

Cheers,
Jay

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


Re: Leaning for High DA

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Good information, Jon.  Much appreciated.

Corbin

On Aug 28, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:



With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4

--

Corbin 
N33QR


Re: Leaning for High DA

Jon Finley
 

With the Marvel carbureted Lycoming’s with which I am familiar (O-320, O-360), performing the runup at 1700-1800 and leaning at that rpm is an excellent takeoff setting (due to the

“power enrichment circuit” that provides an extra-rich mixture at wide-open throttle).  I can imagine other engines/carbs/fuel systems behave differently.

 

These days, instrumentation is so good and affordable, it is silly (financially – engines are expensive) not to have EGT and CHT on all cylinders.  With four cylinder EGT, it is very easy to make adjustments during takeoff to achieve the magical 125 degree rich of peak (best power).  After a handful of takeoff’s you will know what works well for your airplane. In my case – very specific to my airplane – I lean for max rpm while running up at 1700-1800. When I start the departure roll, I push the mixture slightly richer (just a nudge) and glance at the EIS a couple times to confirm an EGT of around 1250 degrees (I happen to know it’s peak EGT is around 1350 and that varies with the conditions).

 

Finally, you can FEEL when have the mixture about right during the takeoff roll – the difference in engine power is noticeable. Yes, making FINE adjustments during the takeoff roll.  No, I would not advise that until familiar/comfortable with/in your airplane but once you are, such adjustments are completely legit. Obviously not making large/rapid adjustments.  There are many times in the backcountry that we do not perform a “full runup” due to possible prop damage (dirt/stones). In that case, setting mixture during the roll is the only option.

 

Jon

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Leaning for High DA

 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

 

Any advice welcome.

 

Corbin Ge!ser


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--
Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Leaning for High DA

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Most of my flying at high-density altitudes has been in a turbo.  When not in a turbo, I have been in a typical tricycle gear plane where I could do a full-power runup and lean for max power prior to takeoff.  In our Q200's, we don't really do full power runups for risk of the tail coming up and risking a prop strike.  So what is the best method to know you are leaning for max power at higher altitudes?  It wouldn't always be feasible to tie down the tail and I am not comfortable leaning during the roll to find that answer out "live".

Any advice welcome.

Corbin Ge!ser

--

Corbin 
N33QR


Re: Field of Dreams Reunion 2020!

britmcman99
 

Thanks Jon. This is very useful. Phil


On Aug 27, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

I 54 is a really tight corridor!  How long are your wings Jon?  Mine are 18’!  By the way we will feed you well at Field Of Dreams so pace yourselves.
Bruce


On Aug 27, 2020, at 4:03 PM, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:


Phil,
One of the guys in my chapter and hangar has an RV-6A. He has been down a couple months reworking nose gear and other things. Not sure when he will be flyable or if he would want to fly to FOD. Normally FOD in aviation is a bad thing. ha ha.

 
John Hoxie
He is no fool, who gives up what he can not keep, to gain what he can not loose -- Jim Elliot


On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 08:58:58 AM MDT, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:


Phil,
That is exactly how they fly north to ALM.


On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 8:22 AM, Paul Fisher
<rv7a.n18pf@...> wrote:
Please don't stop Jon!  I'm enjoying the lessons on mountain flying.  I've been to the southwest a few times and survived, but I am by no means experienced.  So keep going!

Paul

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 07:38 Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:

It appears I got your attention – that’s good, mountain flying is serious – and especially so during the summer. 

 

Now, to back it down a notch…

 

The capability of the aircraft is of great importance to this discussion, obviously. Some aircraft have no business in the mountains. In this case (your O-320 powered RV-6), it has good performance/capability (assuming typical RV).

 

Mountain west flying is much different than non-mountainous areas. In most non-mountainous areas, one can look out the window and make a reasonably good determination about the suitability for VFR flying. Clouds, visibility and wind is pretty obvious. In most cases, all you need is a couple thousand feet to get from A to B.

 

In the southwest, 365 days a year are flyable VFR (pessimistically, 363 days). The clouds that occur are almost always high, thunderstorms are very obvious (from 50 miles away) and visibility is nearly always 50-100 miles. Depending on your location, the wind may be calm/minimal (especially in the morning). However; the mountains really mess with the APPARENT conditions. You will likely need to climb to 10,000’ to get from point A to B.  Wind at altitude is like a mixing machine and causes all sorts of “movement” close to the surface. It also “directs” the wind so you can get very high canyon wind at point A while point B (a couple miles away) is calm. They (mountains) also cause very uneven heating & thus thermals.  These two things (winds aloft and heating) can make for a VERY rough ride. I know a guy that destroyed a C-210 flying over the mountains on the wrong day. He never touched the ground but landed with an airframe so bent/twisted that it was unrepairable. Morning flying generally avoids the heating/thermal affect. The only thing you can do about winds aloft is watch the forecast (https://aviationweather.gov/windtemp/plot) for the day and time that you will be airborne (Windy.com is another excellent tool).  Rarely do significant moisture systems (clouds) move thru at an altitude low enough to be of concern. When they do, they are obvious/visible from a long ways away and easily avoided.

 

You can certainly fly in the afternoon on a summer day. One can “plan” well in advance but it is impossible to make a decision about that plan more than a couple of days in advance. This is largely due to the winds aloft forecast. I have the advantage of flying a lot and being very familiar with the entire southwest and I don’t plan more than a day or two out.

 

While I don’t like hearing about unprepared people flying the mountains, I also don’t like to see people unnecessarily avoiding the mountains. IMO, that flying is about as beautiful as it gets and so many folks miss out on it.

 

If I were flying SAN -> TCS and weather/winds aloft acceptable, I would be airborne at the crack of dawn and fly SAN -> AZ06 -> CGZ (fuel stop) -> TCS. I would divert slightly north of course to view Coolidge Dam (cause it is really cool). Not sure about the -6 but, in the -4, this is possible without a fuel stop if wind is favorable. I like having options so would make the one fuel stop - CGZ appears to have the cheapest fuel in the area. If I got REALLY hungry and not in a hurry; I might stop at P13 (San Carlos Apache – no services), walk across the street to the casinos, and have a big casino breakfast (not sure if they are open in these Covid times). If you like adding ‘places I’ve landed’ to your logbook; Eloy (E60 – where Viking Aircraft once existed with the Dragonfly (though can be a busy place)) and Kearny (E67 – very pretty little spot) are neat options.  This route will take you over the Gila Wilderness area (beautiful) and MeOwn (1NM0) which is one of our backcountry airstrips that I visit often. 

 

I gave Alan this same speech a couple years ago (more northern route over FLG). It would be interesting to hear his perspective on it now that he has flown it the last couple years.

 

Will the winds be ok at 6pm? How about noon? Ask me the day before the flight.

 

Yes, the southern half of the restricted airspace around White Sands requires flying the narrow corridor that is basically highway 54 (to get to ALM).

 

Yes, I can haul a “reasonably sized” bag or two.

 

If anyone is tired of this discussion, please speak up and we’ll swap to private messages.

 

Jon

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Phil Lankford via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 7:29 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Field of Dreams Reunion 2020!

 

Thanks, Bruce and Jon. So, planning to meet up with Jon in TCS and flight of 2 from there. That means I need to be in TCS some time Wednesday. Jon is advising that mornings good, afternoons bad! If I tried to drop into TCS Wednesday pm the temps would still likely be in the 90s but hopefully the winds would calm down toward 6:00 pm maybe?   I might feel alright about that if weather permits. Otherwise I will launch out early Wednesday and get in to TCS around 10:00 am. I’m afraid Jon is going to give me a talking to. 

 

Another thought to ponder - if I fly out solo I might be able to pick up John Hoxie at ALM. Do folks fly up hwy 54 from ELP to ALM along that corridor between restricted areas?

 

Phil

N76GZ RV6-A



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