Date   

Build time survey (starting with partially built kit) #poll-notice

Jay Scheevel
 

If you have a completed, flying aircraft (or built one that you no longer own)
AND
You built starting with a partially built kit
PLEASE
pick a year range below

Results

See Who Responded


Re: Build times

Dave Dugas
 

Started building November 1, 1982…..first flight April 16, 2000.  Plans built with the LS1 canard and Revmaster engine.  Over 1200 hours flown. No idea of the hours spent building, but worth every minute.

Dave Dugas   N68DD

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 9:50 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Build times

 

Thanks Kevin,

 

Yours is probably more relevant, since almost no one from here on out will be buying a virgin kit. They are almost all partially built.  Would be good to have you do a zoom sometime to tell everyone how you found and fixed the mistakes.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Boddicker
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 7:16 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Build times

 

Do we that bought a project, partially built, get to play?

 

TriQ on the gear when purchased. New nose gear, built new main wing replaced same, fixed many mistakes, MANY mistakes.

Mounted engine, designed electrical, rehabbed header take, fuel plumbing, firewall forward items, filled and sand for two years.

Paid to have it painted, and color sanded.

Bought project Aug 99, AW cert Oct 05, first flight March 10, 06.

Guessing at least 1000 hours.

 

 

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B   538 hrs
Luana, IA.


 

On Oct 18, 2020, at 4:06 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

 

This could be fun. Let’s take a quick survey! How long did your Quickie take to build from delivery of QAC materials. Which model do you have? How many years and man hours did it take?

Mine was started in January1981 and finished in 2000. It’s a Q200, took 19 + years and 4000 hours to first flight. First flown August 2000. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200

 

 

 


Build Time Survey (starting with virgin kit) #poll-notice

Jay Scheevel
 

If you have a completed, flying aircraft (or built one that you no longer own)
AND
You built it from an unstarted kit
PLEASE
pick a year range below

Results

See Who Responded


Re: Build times

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks Kevin,

 

Yours is probably more relevant, since almost no one from here on out will be buying a virgin kit. They are almost all partially built.  Would be good to have you do a zoom sometime to tell everyone how you found and fixed the mistakes.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Boddicker
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 7:16 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Build times

 

Do we that bought a project, partially built, get to play?

 

TriQ on the gear when purchased. New nose gear, built new main wing replaced same, fixed many mistakes, MANY mistakes.

Mounted engine, designed electrical, rehabbed header take, fuel plumbing, firewall forward items, filled and sand for two years.

Paid to have it painted, and color sanded.

Bought project Aug 99, AW cert Oct 05, first flight March 10, 06.

Guessing at least 1000 hours.

 

 

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B   538 hrs
Luana, IA.





On Oct 18, 2020, at 4:06 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

 

This could be fun. Let’s take a quick survey! How long did your Quickie take to build from delivery of QAC materials. Which model do you have? How many years and man hours did it take?

Mine was started in January1981 and finished in 2000. It’s a Q200, took 19 + years and 4000 hours to first flight. First flown August 2000. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200

 

 


Re: Build times

Kevin Boddicker
 

Do we that bought a project, partially built, get to play?

TriQ on the gear when purchased. New nose gear, built new main wing replaced same, fixed many mistakes, MANY mistakes.
Mounted engine, designed electrical, rehabbed header take, fuel plumbing, firewall forward items, filled and sand for two years.
Paid to have it painted, and color sanded.
Bought project Aug 99, AW cert Oct 05, first flight March 10, 06.
Guessing at least 1000 hours.


Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B   538 hrs
Luana, IA.



On Oct 18, 2020, at 4:06 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

This could be fun. Let’s take a quick survey! How long did your Quickie take to build from delivery of QAC materials. Which model do you have? How many years and man hours did it take?

Mine was started in January1981 and finished in 2000. It’s a Q200, took 19 + years and 4000 hours to first flight. First flown August 2000. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200

 


Re: Build times

Mike Dwyer
 

1.5 years.  Forget the hours, 1200? 1985 First flght.
Mike Q200, N3QP

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 18:53 Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...> wrote:
16yrs, 5000hrs. First flew June 1997.  914 hrs.  Tri-Q200.  Once a Tri-Q.  Probably another 1000hrs work since 1997 ( engine swap, repaint, new interior, new glass panel.)

-------- Original message --------
From: Paul Fisher <rv7a.n18pf@...>
Date: 10/18/20 5:40 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Build times

My Q-200 took seven years, three months, 22 days to build.  First flight was August 13th 1990.  I have no idea how many hours to build...  I didn't want to know.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 16:06 Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

This could be fun. Let’s take a quick survey! How long did your Quickie take to build from delivery of QAC materials. Which model do you have? How many years and man hours did it take?

Mine was started in January1981 and finished in 2000. It’s a Q200, took 19 + years and 4000 hours to first flight. First flown August 2000. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200

 


Re: Build times

Calvin Thorne
 

Sorry folks, I meant to say you can start a new FILE.
Calvin


Re: Build times

Calvin Thorne
 

If the group would like to have a permanent record in one place that can always be updated you can start a new Poll in this group.

Calvin Thorne
Cochrane Alberta
https://calvinthorne.blogspot.ca


Re: Build times

Jay Scheevel
 

OK, I will play.

First parts of Q200 kit received October 1984, the rest by December 1984. Tri-Q conversion kit in March 1985. Built from the start as a Tri-Q.

Finished building and certified May 2018.

33 years 7 months building.

First flight November 25, 2018.

3800+ documented building hours.

Several thousand more modeling, design, and analysis hours.

Happy with the results.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, N8WQ 118 hours

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

This could be fun. Let’s take a quick survey! How long did your Quickie take to build from delivery of QAC materials. Which model do you have? How many years and man hours did it take?

Mine was started in January1981 and finished in 2000. It’s a Q200, took 19 + years and 4000 hours to first flight. First flown August 2000. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200

 


Re: Build times

Bruce Crain
 

Yeah what Paul said!
Bruce


On Oct 18, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Paul Fisher <rv7a.n18pf@...> wrote:


My Q-200 took seven years, three months, 22 days to build.  First flight was August 13th 1990.  I have no idea how many hours to build...  I didn't want to know.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 16:06 Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

This could be fun. Let’s take a quick survey! How long did your Quickie take to build from delivery of QAC materials. Which model do you have? How many years and man hours did it take?

Mine was started in January1981 and finished in 2000. It’s a Q200, took 19 + years and 4000 hours to first flight. First flown August 2000. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200

 




Re: Build times

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

16yrs, 5000hrs. First flew June 1997.  914 hrs.  Tri-Q200.  Once a Tri-Q.  Probably another 1000hrs work since 1997 ( engine swap, repaint, new interior, new glass panel.)

-------- Original message --------
From: Paul Fisher <rv7a.n18pf@...>
Date: 10/18/20 5:40 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Build times

My Q-200 took seven years, three months, 22 days to build.  First flight was August 13th 1990.  I have no idea how many hours to build...  I didn't want to know.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 16:06 Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

This could be fun. Let’s take a quick survey! How long did your Quickie take to build from delivery of QAC materials. Which model do you have? How many years and man hours did it take?

Mine was started in January1981 and finished in 2000. It’s a Q200, took 19 + years and 4000 hours to first flight. First flown August 2000. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200

 


Re: Build times

Paul Fisher
 

My Q-200 took seven years, three months, 22 days to build.  First flight was August 13th 1990.  I have no idea how many hours to build...  I didn't want to know.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020, 16:06 Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

This could be fun. Let’s take a quick survey! How long did your Quickie take to build from delivery of QAC materials. Which model do you have? How many years and man hours did it take?

Mine was started in January1981 and finished in 2000. It’s a Q200, took 19 + years and 4000 hours to first flight. First flown August 2000. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200

 


Build times

Jim Patillo
 

This could be fun. Let’s take a quick survey! How long did your Quickie take to build from delivery of QAC materials. Which model do you have? How many years and man hours did it take?

Mine was started in January1981 and finished in 2000. It’s a Q200, took 19 + years and 4000 hours to first flight. First flown August 2000. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200

 


Re: Biaxial-traxial vs 7715 Fiberglass #epoxy

Jay Scheevel
 

No that would be a 34 year build... speaking from experience ��

Cheers,
Jay

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:

Well said Bruce.  I’m all for innovation, but that can lead to a 20 year build.  I have seen it happen.

Martin

 


On Oct 18, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Or you could follow the plans and get it done more quickly without deviations and distractions.
Bruce


On Oct 18, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Stuart Grant <smgrant@...> wrote:

If  you are thinking of using vacuum-bagging, consider the Cozy-Girrrls "Lo-Vac" technique - Low Cost, Low Vacuum - that they have used for many, many years to make high quality parts for experimental aircraft.

See their webpage on it here ---  http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm and a long video of a presentation that Randi made at Sun-N-Fun in 2019 here --- https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c

No wrinkles, no bubbles, no excess resin. Uses an aquarium pump and cling wrap to generate a vacuum of only about -11 inches of mercury. Worth checking out as an assist to hand layup especially for parts that are not really big.



Re: Biaxial-traxial vs 7715 Fiberglass #epoxy

Martin Skiby
 

Well said Bruce.  I’m all for innovation, but that can lead to a 20 year build.  I have seen it happen.

Martin

 


On Oct 18, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Or you could follow the plans and get it done more quickly without deviations and distractions.
Bruce


On Oct 18, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Stuart Grant <smgrant@...> wrote:

If  you are thinking of using vacuum-bagging, consider the Cozy-Girrrls "Lo-Vac" technique - Low Cost, Low Vacuum - that they have used for many, many years to make high quality parts for experimental aircraft.

See their webpage on it here ---  http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm and a long video of a presentation that Randi made at Sun-N-Fun in 2019 here --- https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c

No wrinkles, no bubbles, no excess resin. Uses an aquarium pump and cling wrap to generate a vacuum of only about -11 inches of mercury. Worth checking out as an assist to hand layup especially for parts that are not really big.



Re: Biaxial-traxial vs 7715 Fiberglass #epoxy

Bruce Crain
 

Or you could follow the plans and get it done more quickly without deviations and distractions.
Bruce


On Oct 18, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Stuart Grant <smgrant@...> wrote:

If  you are thinking of using vacuum-bagging, consider the Cozy-Girrrls "Lo-Vac" technique - Low Cost, Low Vacuum - that they have used for many, many years to make high quality parts for experimental aircraft.

See their webpage on it here ---  http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm and a long video of a presentation that Randi made at Sun-N-Fun in 2019 here --- https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c

No wrinkles, no bubbles, no excess resin. Uses an aquarium pump and cling wrap to generate a vacuum of only about -11 inches of mercury. Worth checking out as an assist to hand layup especially for parts that are not really big.



Re: Biaxial-traxial vs 7715 Fiberglass #epoxy

Jim Patillo
 

Good morning Cody,

Thank you for sharing your work experience. I forgot to ask how many hours you have in various aircraft and what types? What will be the mission of this A/C, because it is mission specific. 

I too have been in the Quickie World since 1981. If you are planning on building from scratch, do you have the fuselage shells, canopy, carbon spar and  hard parts? Did you buy a kit from someone?

If this is your first build, plan on a build time of 1000 to 4,000 + hours as there will be a steep learning curve. Do you really have that much spare time? If so, you won’t regret it. If not, you will get real tired of it. Some guys are builders, some just want to fly a fast inexpensive plane, some want to do both.  Which are you? Most never finish their projects due to a myriad of reasons.  Probably 90% of the people who bought Q kits (1,500 kits or so) never finished them. 

Sam is correct, start with a good set of plans, get organized  and read, read, and reread everything you can about this plane. We have learned a lot over the last 40 years and will happily share it with you as you proceed.

Regarding vacuum bagging, I use to fly for UAL and 
during the 70’s and when I got laid off (twice) I was offered a job at the SF Maintenance Facility rebuilding 727 - 747 Radomes after lightning strikes. I learned how to bag large and small parts, use large autoclaves and a lot about glass. 

So I bagged the small parts, elevators, ailerons and rudder but did hand layups on the Vertical Stabilizer 
Canard and Main Wing. 

I’m sure there are much better ways to do this now but the design has been recreated successfully man, many times. Why reinvent the wheel and spend an inordinate amount of time wondering if you got it right. Like I said, it’s your butt on the line. This whole thing comes down to; do you want to build or do you want to fly. 

Best regards, we are here for you. 

Jim
N46JP - Q200


Re: Biaxial-traxial vs 7715 Fiberglass #epoxy

Stuart Grant
 

If  you are thinking of using vacuum-bagging, consider the Cozy-Girrrls "Lo-Vac" technique - Low Cost, Low Vacuum - that they have used for many, many years to make high quality parts for experimental aircraft.

See their webpage on it here ---  http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm and a long video of a presentation that Randi made at Sun-N-Fun in 2019 here --- https://youtu.be/fmuDOWTr_3c

No wrinkles, no bubbles, no excess resin. Uses an aquarium pump and cling wrap to generate a vacuum of only about -11 inches of mercury. Worth checking out as an assist to hand layup especially for parts that are not really big.


Re: Biaxial-traxial vs 7715 Fiberglass #epoxy

Sam Hoskins
 

Cody,

I'm not an expert. I never heard of Biaxial-Triaxial cloth until this discussion. I did a little (very little) Googleing just to see what it is. You have a lot of good background and should make short work of building a Q aircraft.

Here's my cro-magnon take on it.  Since this is your first aircraft, worry more about how to set up your shop, and how to get the time in each day that you need to complete your project.  I do have a real bone to pick about the plans, particularly while building the LS-1 canard, but following the plans is a good place to start.  Having been in this Quickie world for almost 40 years now, we have seen all sorts of guys get excited about building a plane and all the improvements they are going to make, only to have them drop out, so concentrate on the basics.

If you want to build this, especially as a first-time builder,  I strongly recommend using the glass as called out in the plans. It works, pretty much. Which configuration are you building?  Taildragger? Tri-Q? If you have a set of CF spars I did an extensive re-write of the canard plans the last time I built one. The problem with the QAC Q-200 addendum was they kept referring back to the Q-2 plans. Maybe I overdid it, but you can see the result here: http://www.quickheads.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2399&Itemid=790

I also wrote up how to perform the Gall wheel alignment during the installation of the wheel pants. Not addressing wheel alignment was a huge screw-up by the QAC. This also shows how to fabricate the Couglin brake mounts. http://www.quickheads.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2400&Itemid=791

Good luck with everything. We're looking forward to your progress reports. Where are you located? 

Sam


Re: Biaxial-traxial vs 7715 Fiberglass #epoxy

 

I'm an avionics manager for a shop repairing falcon jets. 10's 20's 50's 900's 2000's. I've built replacement cowls for Cessnas down in Jenks, OK. I work with a lot of mechanics who did composite work at Bizjet. This would be my first homebuild. Hence all the questions and inexperience. I have good solid plans for saving weight in avionics and that stuff. But the structure part of it, especially layups I have so many guys up here saying there are better techniques than those from 1985. But those from 1985 have built reliable proven airframes, so I'm not against them by any means.


On Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 23:53 Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Hi Cody, I would be happy to talk with you.
I’m no expert like Charlie, Vern, Sam and others on this list but I do have a lot of glass time and have made a major critical repair to the carbon spar, due to improper load tests done by Scott Swing at Quickie Aircraft in Mojave. The repair was made at 200 hours and the info is available in the files section of this group if you are interested. My plane does have a lot of time on it and to date have never had a repairable accident in it. The plane is true and straight.

First please give us some background on you and your previous experience so we know how to approach this. Do you have experience building Fiberglas Airplanes, EZE, Glasair, Velocity, etc.

Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Cody <cody.craig1985@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:18:23 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Biaxial-traxial vs 7715 Fiberglass #epoxy
 
Jim,
I was told specifically to talk to you and Sam Hoskins before even attempting to build per the plans. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, just looking at logistics and asking questions before I go down the wrong rabbit hole. I was thinking triaxial glass using the same type of glass as 7715 woven together would hold the fibers in place better. I'm not trying to change the structure itself. Just asking about efficiency, and effective practices. Id love to talk to both you and Sam at length before I do anything! 

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