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Re: Flight report

Bruce Crain
 

Fantastic Jay!  Enjoyed being an “armchair quarterback” with you!
Bruce 


On Nov 15, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...> wrote:

Nice Jay!
Keep reporting, it makes a difference to those still building, and all of us that would liked to have flown today.
We have had some of the windiest weather I can remember. 3+ weeks of this wind.
Need to get in the air! Next weekend sounds like the temps will be favorable. Hope the wind takes a break.

 

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B   538 hrs
Luana, IA.

On Nov 15, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi All,
 
Had not been up in my Q for a couple weeks, so I thought I would take advantage of a nice calm, cool, crystal-clear fall day to do a short local flight. I have recently finished the final paint on my wheel fairings, so it is nice to have the airframe “finished”. Although it is a homebuilt, so I guess you are never really finished, right Sammy? 
 
It was my first flight in a long time where the density altitude was less than the field altitude. DA was 4250 and field elevation is 4750 MSL.  So I guess you could call it a “low altitude” shake out flight for me. The good thing about cooler temperatures (5 degrees C at 1000’ AGL) is that it allows me to close up my radiator air exit doors and reduce drag. That adds some nice speed, so once I got up and level, I was showing over 170 mph TAS at about 70% power. Pulling it back to economy cruise (55% power), still gave me 160 mph TAS, which is really a nice speed at 5.5 gph!  The scenery is tremendous out here any time of year, but the lower sun angles make it really pop. Had to take a little opportunity to take it in, so I flew along the west edge of our valley (Grand Junction, CO) and flew down over the cemetery where my dad is resting and made a tight circle and couple of wing wags to say hello. The plane really likes about a 35 degree turn angle. It kind of “locks in” at that angle.
 
At my last condition inspection, I installed the autopilot servos, so I have been playing with the autopilot for a month or so. It is really nice to have, and having it hold altitude and heading is a real pleasure.  That gives you a chance to play with the engine settings without holding the stick. And magically, you can just twist the heading bug to make a turn. I have not used it for a multileg trip yet, but if I get the opportunity in one of the colder months, it will be nice. 
 
Since it is starting to get chilly here, it is worth mentioning that I take my cabin heat air off the back side of the left and right radiators, so when I close up the exit air doors,  I get extra pressure on the hot air source into the cabin. That is a nice feature of winter flying for me, since that is the time that you are flying with the radiator exits mostly closed up. 
 
My engine is really running smoothly and the rest of the plane is functioning as designed, so I am a happy homebuilder and now have 121 hours on the plane. Hoping to get out and see some of you in 2021, and maybe make that long dreamt of trip to OSH this year.
 
For those of you in Canada, hope you had a nice Thanksgiving, for those of you in the US, Happy Thanksgiving,  11 days from now, and for everyone else, I hope you have a nice November 26th!
 
Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 121 hours. 
Re: Flight report

Kevin Boddicker
 

Nice Jay!
Keep reporting, it makes a difference to those still building, and all of us that would liked to have flown today.
We have had some of the windiest weather I can remember. 3+ weeks of this wind.
Need to get in the air! Next weekend sounds like the temps will be favorable. Hope the wind takes a break.

 

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B   538 hrs
Luana, IA.

On Nov 15, 2020, at 3:40 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi All,
 
Had not been up in my Q for a couple weeks, so I thought I would take advantage of a nice calm, cool, crystal-clear fall day to do a short local flight. I have recently finished the final paint on my wheel fairings, so it is nice to have the airframe “finished”. Although it is a homebuilt, so I guess you are never really finished, right Sammy? 
 
It was my first flight in a long time where the density altitude was less than the field altitude. DA was 4250 and field elevation is 4750 MSL.  So I guess you could call it a “low altitude” shake out flight for me. The good thing about cooler temperatures (5 degrees C at 1000’ AGL) is that it allows me to close up my radiator air exit doors and reduce drag. That adds some nice speed, so once I got up and level, I was showing over 170 mph TAS at about 70% power. Pulling it back to economy cruise (55% power), still gave me 160 mph TAS, which is really a nice speed at 5.5 gph!  The scenery is tremendous out here any time of year, but the lower sun angles make it really pop. Had to take a little opportunity to take it in, so I flew along the west edge of our valley (Grand Junction, CO) and flew down over the cemetery where my dad is resting and made a tight circle and couple of wing wags to say hello. The plane really likes about a 35 degree turn angle. It kind of “locks in” at that angle.
 
At my last condition inspection, I installed the autopilot servos, so I have been playing with the autopilot for a month or so. It is really nice to have, and having it hold altitude and heading is a real pleasure.  That gives you a chance to play with the engine settings without holding the stick. And magically, you can just twist the heading bug to make a turn. I have not used it for a multileg trip yet, but if I get the opportunity in one of the colder months, it will be nice. 
 
Since it is starting to get chilly here, it is worth mentioning that I take my cabin heat air off the back side of the left and right radiators, so when I close up the exit air doors,  I get extra pressure on the hot air source into the cabin. That is a nice feature of winter flying for me, since that is the time that you are flying with the radiator exits mostly closed up. 
 
My engine is really running smoothly and the rest of the plane is functioning as designed, so I am a happy homebuilder and now have 121 hours on the plane. Hoping to get out and see some of you in 2021, and maybe make that long dreamt of trip to OSH this year.
 
For those of you in Canada, hope you had a nice Thanksgiving, for those of you in the US, Happy Thanksgiving,  11 days from now, and for everyone else, I hope you have a nice November 26th!
 
Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 121 hours. 
Flight report

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi All,

 

Had not been up in my Q for a couple weeks, so I thought I would take advantage of a nice calm, cool, crystal-clear fall day to do a short local flight. I have recently finished the final paint on my wheel fairings, so it is nice to have the airframe “finished”. Although it is a homebuilt, so I guess you are never really finished, right Sammy?

 

It was my first flight in a long time where the density altitude was less than the field altitude. DA was 4250 and field elevation is 4750 MSL.  So I guess you could call it a “low altitude” shake out flight for me. The good thing about cooler temperatures (5 degrees C at 1000’ AGL) is that it allows me to close up my radiator air exit doors and reduce drag. That adds some nice speed, so once I got up and level, I was showing over 170 mph TAS at about 70% power. Pulling it back to economy cruise (55% power), still gave me 160 mph TAS, which is really a nice speed at 5.5 gph!  The scenery is tremendous out here any time of year, but the lower sun angles make it really pop. Had to take a little opportunity to take it in, so I flew along the west edge of our valley (Grand Junction, CO) and flew down over the cemetery where my dad is resting and made a tight circle and couple of wing wags to say hello. The plane really likes about a 35 degree turn angle. It kind of “locks in” at that angle.

 

At my last condition inspection, I installed the autopilot servos, so I have been playing with the autopilot for a month or so. It is really nice to have, and having it hold altitude and heading is a real pleasure.  That gives you a chance to play with the engine settings without holding the stick. And magically, you can just twist the heading bug to make a turn. I have not used it for a multileg trip yet, but if I get the opportunity in one of the colder months, it will be nice.

 

Since it is starting to get chilly here, it is worth mentioning that I take my cabin heat air off the back side of the left and right radiators, so when I close up the exit air doors,  I get extra pressure on the hot air source into the cabin. That is a nice feature of winter flying for me, since that is the time that you are flying with the radiator exits mostly closed up.

 

My engine is really running smoothly and the rest of the plane is functioning as designed, so I am a happy homebuilder and now have 121 hours on the plane. Hoping to get out and see some of you in 2021, and maybe make that long dreamt of trip to OSH this year.

 

For those of you in Canada, hope you had a nice Thanksgiving, for those of you in the US, Happy Thanksgiving,  11 days from now, and for everyone else, I hope you have a nice November 26th!

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ, 121 hours.

Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Anthony P
 

Thanks for the pic.
Makes sense.
Maybe a part revision miss-match for the kit you received?
Maybe a sensor location problem within the sensor housing?

At least you know what needs to happen now to get it working.
Re: CFG

Sam Hoskins
 

There have been various W&B sheets loaded to the Files section of the Q-list site. You might want to check there.

Sam

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020, 12:22 PM Theo Scheepers <theo.intermark@...> wrote:
Hi does anyone have an XL spreadsheet/program for checking our CFG at various loads and are there any graphs extending the weight say up to 1300lb all up 

CFG

Theo Scheepers
 

Hi does anyone have an XL spreadsheet/program for checking our CFG at various loads and are there any graphs extending the weight say up to 1300lb all up 
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Leif,

When you drilled the holes to the oval shape, so you could move the sensor, what did you do (if anything) to prevent the sensor from vibrating or coming loose in any way and sliding down to the original location?  I have done the exact same thing as you describe above to confirm a working location but I have not put much thought into how to prevent "sensor creep" other than filling in with weld and drilling new holes.
--

Corbin 
N33QR
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Anthony - here is one pic until I get back out there again.  This is a pic of the placement/alignment with the original bracket with original holes drilled by Lightspeed.  You can see the vertical alignment is very, very close (the two lines match).  This actually shows it is more than just a bracket issue and is also (or either) the lines on the plate possibly.  You can see the magnet above the TCI mark.  At this location, when I rotate the magnet plate to have the magnet pass by, the magnet is too high to get a reading/spark.  The location we have found seems to be in the middle (still dialing that in) actually moves the sensor up where the top of the sensor is flush with the outer edge of the plate.  This modified position places the little magnet on the plate about halfway between the top of the sensor and the horizontal line.


--

Corbin 
N33QR
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Anthony P
 

Close up pic of your actual sensor and wheel installation when you have a moment please.
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Hey Anthony, 

The vertical and horizontal alignment mentioned is referring to the lines on the mini sensor and the magnet plate lining up to one another.  Once you realize the true middle of where the magnet needs to pass then it could be as much as  1/32" off from those lines.   The other tolerance is the distance b/t  sensor and plate.  That range can be from .030" - .050" (refer to the manual on that upper limit to check me)  which allows for the crankshaft moving. That range tolerance seems very good.  
--

Corbin 
N33QR
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Richard Gammon <gamzoom@...>
 

I am following this topic with interest as I had experience with electronic ignition in the past.
 
Yes Klaus will be able to tell you if there is other test points to track down the problem source.
 
One thing that I remember in designs I was involved with, included a safety feature that limited the speed of prop rotation that would trigger the production of a high voltage to the spark plugs. This would disable the ignition when moving the prop slowly to avoid ignition as a safety feature. There could be a minimum prop speed to enable spark production.
This could well not be the case with the Plasma system.
 
So pleased to see the adoption of electronic ignition in your aircraft. It has taken us decades to get close to fully adopt this technology in piston engines. Imagine turbine engines without electronics.
 
Rich G
________

Sent: Monday, November 09, 2020 11:12 AM
Subject: [Q-List] Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils
 
As we wait for Klaus to get back with us, I thought I would throw it out to this group.  As many know, I am installing a Lightspeed Plasma III electronic ignition system in my Q200.  Following the instructions, we have followed the steps and got to the point where we are rotating the prop to get the spark from the coils.  No spark so we are troubleshooting as best we can including reviewing the instructions for any missed steps.

Power from the battery to the circuit breakers is good and the signal coming back to the warning lights is good (if one coil fails a light comes on,  etc.).  However, we are not registering any power getting to the coils and have triple checked the wiring is connected to the ignition boxes going to the coils.

Could it be that the magnet sensor is not sending a signal back to the ignition boxes therefore no spark?  We wonder if there is a bad connection in one of the magnet sensors.  The other area I  thought it could be is that we are bypassing the keyed ignition for now.  My avionics guy assured me that it is not an area of concern since the way it is currently wired, it is not an open-loop (key in off position).  I still wonder though...

If anyone has any known common failure points please let me know.  We may try and go back out to the hangar this evening.

--

Corbin
N33QR

Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Anthony P
 

This is all very good information/findings for public distribution.

Seems like the free magnet passing over the sensor should be a recommended early trouble shooting procedure.  Maybe even a bench procedure for proving system function before an aircraft is involved.

"The alignment is within the tolerance of the manual but not enough to get the spark."
This is a problem. If the sensor is within the stated alignment tolerance radially and axially, but the system does not function, then the tolerance spec is wrong. Not good. 
Due to many factors, the stated alignment tolerance needs to be well within the actual alignment tolerance for system functionality. 
Otherwise someone could be on the cusp of functionality without knowing it and vibration, thermal expansion, sensor performance thermal effects, magnetic strength thermal effects,... could push it into the non-functioning region.
Added to this list are magnetic field shape and strength variation from the manufacturer.  This, of course, should be baked into the system level alignment tolerance.
What are the radial and axial alignment tolerance specs?  
Has anyone confirmed these under real world condition changes?
I'm guessing no one is swapping out magnets to test sensitivity, rather they are just making it work for the magnets they received.
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Leif Johnson
 

When I installed mine on my EZ I had to slightly modify the sensor bracket to position the sensor correctly. Remove the sensor and with the system powered, just carefully move it over the magnets in the disk til it sparks. You’ll find it is very sensitive to  radial positioning, hence modifying the bracket. I had to oval the holes a bit to position the sensor farther away from center just a tad. You’ll find one coils’ magnet to be quite literally 1/8” outside the other as the disk rotates. It took me a few days to figure it out. I also had to grind a bit on the case to get the mentioned bracket to not warp when tightened into place. As I install the same system on my Q200 I will expect to have to do the same fussing. That being said, other than the plug wires sliding off a couple times (make sure the rubber boot is worked down. . . Way down on the automotive plug), I’ve been thrilled with the performance of this system. It really is awesome, especially at higher altitudes. Good luck!
Leif Johnson
Vari Ez Race 25
Q-200 (almost). 


On Nov 9, 2020, at 10:37, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Not sure if Klaus uses Hall sensors or not, or if it even matters, but there may be a high pass filter on the input from the sensor, that effectively blocks the signal if the magnet does not move past the sensor fast enough. This could be a safety feature to prevent the engine from firing when RPM is below a certain speed. I am just guessing here, but the board that he has in the system is certainly capable of doing this if he wanted to, and it would be a smart thing to do to prevent the engine from kicking back. To test this, you could disable your fuel system, hook an automotive timing strobe to your coil output and then crank the starter to watch the strobe to see if you are getting firing pulses. My uninformed 2-cents worth….

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2020 9:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

 

As we wait for Klaus to get back with us, I thought I would throw it out to this group.  As many know, I am installing a Lightspeed Plasma III electronic ignition system in my Q200.  Following the instructions, we have followed the steps and got to the point where we are rotating the prop to get the spark from the coils.  No spark so we are troubleshooting as best we can including reviewing the instructions for any missed steps.

Power from the battery to the circuit breakers is good and the signal coming back to the warning lights is good (if one coil fails a light comes on,  etc.).  However, we are not registering any power getting to the coils and have triple checked the wiring is connected to the ignition boxes going to the coils.

Could it be that the magnet sensor is not sending a signal back to the ignition boxes therefore no spark?  We wonder if there is a bad connection in one of the magnet sensors.  The other area I  thought it could be is that we are bypassing the keyed ignition for now.  My avionics guy assured me that it is not an area of concern since the way it is currently wired, it is not an open-loop (key in off position).  I still wonder though...

If anyone has any known common failure points please let me know.  We may try and go back out to the hangar this evening.

--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Because.....well....Klaus.  😀

Corbin

On Nov 14, 2020, at 6:38 PM, Rik <Info@...> wrote:

Why doesn’t Klaus simply send you the correct brackets??
 
Seems that would have solved a lot of cost and aggravation.

--

Corbin 
N33QR
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Rik
 

Why doesn’t Klaus simply send you the correct brackets??
 
Seems that would have solved a lot of cost and aggravation.
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Bill,

Your South Pole magnet comment helped us.  It’s the one thing we had tried yet due to simply not having one.  We immediately got a spark yesterday when we did it.  Pure joy.

Then we realized a more effective test is to just pass the sensor across the magnet in the plate.  That way, you can confirm both the sensor and the plate work at the same time.  Of course, if still no spark then the South Pole of a magnet could still prove the sensor back to input and output to cooks works.  

I think Klaus should have immediately offered to send replacement brackets instead of having me makeshift a solution.

Corbin

On Nov 14, 2020, at 8:16 AM, Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:


Thanks Corbin. Understood. I had the same issue ( which I described way back in this thread) - the bracket fitted the engine OK, but unless the sensor was perfectly lined up, no sparks. 
I confirmed the system was wired correctly by passing a S-pole of a magnet over the mini-sensor, in which case the plugs would spark.
I don't like to call Klaus as it’s always my fault. I think in Germany the customer isn’t always right..... and statistically Klaus probably has this confirmed for him on a daily basis.

Bill

On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 at 02:22, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hey Bill,

I guess I was so happy about the spark that I neglected to clarify.   Thanks for that.   Yes, both brackets holding the DC mini sensor, to the engine case, were not drilled correctly.  I am not sure if they are for a different engine or just drilled incorrectly.  Klaus recommended drilling new holes.  There is no room for new holes, I would have to modify the existing holes which could have the risk of moving under vibration....then no more sparky sparky.

So I will look into making my own new brackets with correctly drilled holes.  The alignment is within the tolerance of the manual but not enough to get the spark.  I can tell you, from a technical writer's perspective, that there are many areas of improvement in that install manual.   Needless to say areas of quality control concern.

But I now have sparks so I am happy as can be.
--

Corbin 
N33QR

--

--

Corbin 
N33QR
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Bill Allen
 

Thanks Corbin. Understood. I had the same issue ( which I described way back in this thread) - the bracket fitted the engine OK, but unless the sensor was perfectly lined up, no sparks. 
I confirmed the system was wired correctly by passing a S-pole of a magnet over the mini-sensor, in which case the plugs would spark.
I don't like to call Klaus as it’s always my fault. I think in Germany the customer isn’t always right..... and statistically Klaus probably has this confirmed for him on a daily basis.

Bill

On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 at 02:22, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hey Bill,

I guess I was so happy about the spark that I neglected to clarify.   Thanks for that.   Yes, both brackets holding the DC mini sensor, to the engine case, were not drilled correctly.  I am not sure if they are for a different engine or just drilled incorrectly.  Klaus recommended drilling new holes.  There is no room for new holes, I would have to modify the existing holes which could have the risk of moving under vibration....then no more sparky sparky.

So I will look into making my own new brackets with correctly drilled holes.  The alignment is within the tolerance of the manual but not enough to get the spark.  I can tell you, from a technical writer's perspective, that there are many areas of improvement in that install manual.   Needless to say areas of quality control concern.

But I now have sparks so I am happy as can be.
--

Corbin 
N33QR

--

Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Yes, in fact, a local IA recommended that approach as well.  I’d certainly would be easiest.

Corbin

On Nov 14, 2020, at 7:59 AM, Mike Steinsland <MIKESKUSTOMS@...> wrote:


Is it possible to weld the mounting holes shut then drill new ones?
Save a lot of manufacturing 

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 8:22 PM Corbin via groups.io, <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hey Bill,

I guess I was so happy about the spark that I neglected to clarify.   Thanks for that.   Yes, both brackets holding the DC mini sensor, to the engine case, were not drilled correctly.  I am not sure if they are for a different engine or just drilled incorrectly.  Klaus recommended drilling new holes.  There is no room for new holes, I would have to modify the existing holes which could have the risk of moving under vibration....then no more sparky sparky.

So I will look into making my own new brackets with correctly drilled holes.  The alignment is within the tolerance of the manual but not enough to get the spark.  I can tell you, from a technical writer's perspective, that there are many areas of improvement in that install manual.   Needless to say areas of quality control concern.

But I now have sparks so I am happy as can be.
--

Corbin 
N33QR


--

Corbin 
N33QR
Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Mike Steinsland
 

Is it possible to weld the mounting holes shut then drill new ones?
Save a lot of manufacturing 

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 8:22 PM Corbin via groups.io, <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hey Bill,

I guess I was so happy about the spark that I neglected to clarify.   Thanks for that.   Yes, both brackets holding the DC mini sensor, to the engine case, were not drilled correctly.  I am not sure if they are for a different engine or just drilled incorrectly.  Klaus recommended drilling new holes.  There is no room for new holes, I would have to modify the existing holes which could have the risk of moving under vibration....then no more sparky sparky.

So I will look into making my own new brackets with correctly drilled holes.  The alignment is within the tolerance of the manual but not enough to get the spark.  I can tell you, from a technical writer's perspective, that there are many areas of improvement in that install manual.   Needless to say areas of quality control concern.

But I now have sparks so I am happy as can be.
--

Corbin 
N33QR

Re: Electronic Ignition Install - No Spark from Coils

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Hey Bill,

I guess I was so happy about the spark that I neglected to clarify.   Thanks for that.   Yes, both brackets holding the DC mini sensor, to the engine case, were not drilled correctly.  I am not sure if they are for a different engine or just drilled incorrectly.  Klaus recommended drilling new holes.  There is no room for new holes, I would have to modify the existing holes which could have the risk of moving under vibration....then no more sparky sparky.

So I will look into making my own new brackets with correctly drilled holes.  The alignment is within the tolerance of the manual but not enough to get the spark.  I can tell you, from a technical writer's perspective, that there are many areas of improvement in that install manual.   Needless to say areas of quality control concern.

But I now have sparks so I am happy as can be.
--

Corbin 
N33QR
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