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So I fly at 27C alot and it's 80% humidity much of the time. That's a 20C dew point. On the graph, I'm in the "Serious Icing" virtually all the time! Am I the only Q pilot with a humidity gauge on my panel?
Updraft, downdraft, - it doesn’t matter. What matters is the relative humidity and air temperature, combined with the carburettors venturi effect and the LHE of the fuel, as below; On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 22:23, Jay Scheevel < jay@...> wrote: Good points, Bill. I wonder if the EZ’s are not more prone to icing due to the updraft cooling, which puts the coolest air in the bottom half of the cowl? Your thoughts? Cheers, Jay From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Allen
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion “Carb” Ice on any engine using petroleum spirit with a Venturi metering device is a silent killer which doesn’t get the attention it deserves. Most folk don't ever test to see if their “carb heat” system meets the requirements of FAR 23.1093 (90f rise in intake aIr temp 65% at OAT of 30f) If the engine quits because of carb ice, you’re going down, - and what’s more, the evidence of the cause of the failure will have melted away by the time any accident investigator gets there. I’ve lost count of the numbers of people that have crashed due to carb ice/inadequate heat/unused carb heat, and believe that it’s the most dangerous thing on a Continental 0-200/0-240 which are otherwise a great engines. I have a wrecked LongEz in my shop now (Continental 0-240) which was caused by a poor carb heat system, See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/236048 A friend wrecked his LongEz, and was badly injured, due to not fully using carb heat; See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/213001 Another friend had icing induced engine failure , and found a big tree in the field fate selected for him, which killed him; https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aircraft-crashed-after-engine-cut-out-due-to-ice-inquest-hears-1.3407962 If you can't afford fuel injection, get carb heat muffs on headers both sides and make sure you get the heat rises called for in the FARs - it’s one of those regs that's “written in blood”. And don't be shy about using heat all the way down to touchdown, and warming the engine every 500ft - those pipes don't have much thermal mass and quickly lose the ability to heat the air adequately. Another thing I’ve noticed about fixed wing pilots is that many apply carb heat as if they were doing harm to the engine, and thus dont seem to like leaving it on. While it’s true that max power is with cold air, you only need that on a climb out. So I’m puzzled when a pilot selects carb heat on the downwind, then turns it off on finals, just when going through the most vulnerable phase of the approach. If you believe that carb heat harms the engine in some way, keep in mind that all Robinson R22 helicopters (Lycoming 0-320/360) run with carb heat on all the time (unless you live in the desert of course...) Fly safe, and land with heat :^) Bill Allen Agreed...love not worrying about carb ice!
On Jan 3, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Martin, Where did your Tri-Q end up? Cheers, Jay I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life. I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!! On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I. The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started. One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know. After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive. I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see. Thanks for taking the time. <INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
--
Corbin
N33QR
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|
Also, FYI, Ben Ellison made some videos of his TBI and at the 4m46s point you can see ice formation in a carburettor here;
Updraft, downdraft, - it doesn’t matter. What matters is the relative humidity and air temperature, combined with the carburettors venturi effect and the LHE of the fuel, as below; On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 22:23, Jay Scheevel < jay@...> wrote: Good points, Bill. I wonder if the EZ’s are not more prone to icing due to the updraft cooling, which puts the coolest air in the bottom half of the cowl? Your thoughts? Cheers, Jay From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Allen
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion “Carb” Ice on any engine using petroleum spirit with a Venturi metering device is a silent killer which doesn’t get the attention it deserves. Most folk don't ever test to see if their “carb heat” system meets the requirements of FAR 23.1093 (90f rise in intake aIr temp 65% at OAT of 30f) If the engine quits because of carb ice, you’re going down, - and what’s more, the evidence of the cause of the failure will have melted away by the time any accident investigator gets there. I’ve lost count of the numbers of people that have crashed due to carb ice/inadequate heat/unused carb heat, and believe that it’s the most dangerous thing on a Continental 0-200/0-240 which are otherwise a great engines. I have a wrecked LongEz in my shop now (Continental 0-240) which was caused by a poor carb heat system, See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/236048 A friend wrecked his LongEz, and was badly injured, due to not fully using carb heat; See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/213001 Another friend had icing induced engine failure , and found a big tree in the field fate selected for him, which killed him; https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aircraft-crashed-after-engine-cut-out-due-to-ice-inquest-hears-1.3407962 If you can't afford fuel injection, get carb heat muffs on headers both sides and make sure you get the heat rises called for in the FARs - it’s one of those regs that's “written in blood”. And don't be shy about using heat all the way down to touchdown, and warming the engine every 500ft - those pipes don't have much thermal mass and quickly lose the ability to heat the air adequately. Another thing I’ve noticed about fixed wing pilots is that many apply carb heat as if they were doing harm to the engine, and thus dont seem to like leaving it on. While it’s true that max power is with cold air, you only need that on a climb out. So I’m puzzled when a pilot selects carb heat on the downwind, then turns it off on finals, just when going through the most vulnerable phase of the approach. If you believe that carb heat harms the engine in some way, keep in mind that all Robinson R22 helicopters (Lycoming 0-320/360) run with carb heat on all the time (unless you live in the desert of course...) Fly safe, and land with heat :^) Bill Allen Agreed...love not worrying about carb ice!
On Jan 3, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Martin, Where did your Tri-Q end up? Cheers, Jay I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life. I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!! On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I. The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started. One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know. After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive. I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see. Thanks for taking the time. <INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
--
Corbin
N33QR
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|
|
Updraft, downdraft, - it doesn’t matter. What matters is the relative humidity and air temperature, combined with the carburettors venturi effect and the LHE of the fuel, as below;
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 22:23, Jay Scheevel < jay@...> wrote: Good points, Bill. I wonder if the EZ’s are not more prone to icing due to the updraft cooling, which puts the coolest air in the bottom half of the cowl? Your thoughts? Cheers, Jay From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Allen
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion “Carb” Ice on any engine using petroleum spirit with a Venturi metering device is a silent killer which doesn’t get the attention it deserves. Most folk don't ever test to see if their “carb heat” system meets the requirements of FAR 23.1093 (90f rise in intake aIr temp 65% at OAT of 30f) If the engine quits because of carb ice, you’re going down, - and what’s more, the evidence of the cause of the failure will have melted away by the time any accident investigator gets there. I’ve lost count of the numbers of people that have crashed due to carb ice/inadequate heat/unused carb heat, and believe that it’s the most dangerous thing on a Continental 0-200/0-240 which are otherwise a great engines. I have a wrecked LongEz in my shop now (Continental 0-240) which was caused by a poor carb heat system, See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/236048 A friend wrecked his LongEz, and was badly injured, due to not fully using carb heat; See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/213001 Another friend had icing induced engine failure , and found a big tree in the field fate selected for him, which killed him; https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aircraft-crashed-after-engine-cut-out-due-to-ice-inquest-hears-1.3407962 If you can't afford fuel injection, get carb heat muffs on headers both sides and make sure you get the heat rises called for in the FARs - it’s one of those regs that's “written in blood”. And don't be shy about using heat all the way down to touchdown, and warming the engine every 500ft - those pipes don't have much thermal mass and quickly lose the ability to heat the air adequately. Another thing I’ve noticed about fixed wing pilots is that many apply carb heat as if they were doing harm to the engine, and thus dont seem to like leaving it on. While it’s true that max power is with cold air, you only need that on a climb out. So I’m puzzled when a pilot selects carb heat on the downwind, then turns it off on finals, just when going through the most vulnerable phase of the approach. If you believe that carb heat harms the engine in some way, keep in mind that all Robinson R22 helicopters (Lycoming 0-320/360) run with carb heat on all the time (unless you live in the desert of course...) Fly safe, and land with heat :^) Bill Allen Agreed...love not worrying about carb ice!
On Jan 3, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Martin, Where did your Tri-Q end up? Cheers, Jay I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life. I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!! On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I. The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started. One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know. After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive. I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see. Thanks for taking the time. <INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
--
Corbin
N33QR
|
|
|
Jay Scheevel
Good points, Bill. I wonder if the EZ’s are not more prone to icing due to the updraft cooling, which puts the coolest air in the bottom half of the cowl? Your thoughts? Cheers, Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Allen
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 12:15 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion “Carb” Ice on any engine using petroleum spirit with a Venturi metering device is a silent killer which doesn’t get the attention it deserves. Most folk don't ever test to see if their “carb heat” system meets the requirements of FAR 23.1093 (90f rise in intake aIr temp 65% at OAT of 30f) If the engine quits because of carb ice, you’re going down, - and what’s more, the evidence of the cause of the failure will have melted away by the time any accident investigator gets there. I’ve lost count of the numbers of people that have crashed due to carb ice/inadequate heat/unused carb heat, and believe that it’s the most dangerous thing on a Continental 0-200/0-240 which are otherwise a great engines. I have a wrecked LongEz in my shop now (Continental 0-240) which was caused by a poor carb heat system, See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/236048 A friend wrecked his LongEz, and was badly injured, due to not fully using carb heat; See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/213001 Another friend had icing induced engine failure , and found a big tree in the field fate selected for him, which killed him; https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aircraft-crashed-after-engine-cut-out-due-to-ice-inquest-hears-1.3407962 If you can't afford fuel injection, get carb heat muffs on headers both sides and make sure you get the heat rises called for in the FARs - it’s one of those regs that's “written in blood”. And don't be shy about using heat all the way down to touchdown, and warming the engine every 500ft - those pipes don't have much thermal mass and quickly lose the ability to heat the air adequately. Another thing I’ve noticed about fixed wing pilots is that many apply carb heat as if they were doing harm to the engine, and thus dont seem to like leaving it on. While it’s true that max power is with cold air, you only need that on a climb out. So I’m puzzled when a pilot selects carb heat on the downwind, then turns it off on finals, just when going through the most vulnerable phase of the approach. If you believe that carb heat harms the engine in some way, keep in mind that all Robinson R22 helicopters (Lycoming 0-320/360) run with carb heat on all the time (unless you live in the desert of course...) Fly safe, and land with heat :^) Bill Allen Agreed...love not worrying about carb ice!
On Jan 3, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Martin, Where did your Tri-Q end up? Cheers, Jay I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life. I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!! On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I. The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started. One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know. After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive. I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see. Thanks for taking the time. <INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
--
Corbin
N33QR
--
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Dragonfly Russell
Fantastic perspective, Bill. Thanks for sharing!
On Jan 3, 2021, at 1:15 PM, Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
“Carb” Ice on any engine using petroleum spirit with a Venturi metering device is a silent killer which doesn’t get the attention it deserves. Most folk don't ever test to see if their “carb heat” system meets the requirements of FAR 23.1093 (90f rise in intake aIr temp 65% at OAT of 30f) If the engine quits because of carb ice, you’re going down, - and what’s more, the evidence of the cause of the failure will have melted away by the time any accident investigator gets there. I’ve lost count of the numbers of people that have crashed due to carb ice/inadequate heat/unused carb heat, and believe that it’s the most dangerous thing on a Continental 0-200/0-240 which are otherwise a great engines. I have a wrecked LongEz in my shop now (Continental 0-240) which was caused by a poor carb heat system, See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/236048 A friend wrecked his LongEz, and was badly injured, due to not fully using carb heat; See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/213001 Another friend had icing induced engine failure , and found a big tree in the field fate selected for him, which killed him; https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aircraft-crashed-after-engine-cut-out-due-to-ice-inquest-hears-1.3407962 If you can't afford fuel injection, get carb heat muffs on headers both sides and make sure you get the heat rises called for in the FARs - it’s one of those regs that's “written in blood”. And don't be shy about using heat all the way down to touchdown, and warming the engine every 500ft - those pipes don't have much thermal mass and quickly lose the ability to heat the air adequately. Another thing I’ve noticed about fixed wing pilots is that many apply carb heat as if they were doing harm to the engine, and thus dont seem to like leaving it on. While it’s true that max power is with cold air, you only need that on a climb out. So I’m puzzled when a pilot selects carb heat on the downwind, then turns it off on finals, just when going through the most vulnerable phase of the approach. If you believe that carb heat harms the engine in some way, keep in mind that all Robinson R22 helicopters (Lycoming 0-320/360) run with carb heat on all the time (unless you live in the desert of course...) Fly safe, and land with heat :^) Bill Allen Agreed...love not worrying about carb ice! Corbin On Jan 3, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Martin, Where did your Tri-Q end up? Cheers, Jay I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life. I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!!
On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I. The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started. One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know. After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive. I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see. Thanks for taking the time. <INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
--
Corbin
N33QR
--
|
|
|
“Carb” Ice on any engine using petroleum spirit with a Venturi metering device is a silent killer which doesn’t get the attention it deserves. Most folk don't ever test to see if their “carb heat” system meets the requirements of FAR 23.1093 (90f rise in intake aIr temp 65% at OAT of 30f) If the engine quits because of carb ice, you’re going down, - and what’s more, the evidence of the cause of the failure will have melted away by the time any accident investigator gets there. I’ve lost count of the numbers of people that have crashed due to carb ice/inadequate heat/unused carb heat, and believe that it’s the most dangerous thing on a Continental 0-200/0-240 which are otherwise a great engines. I have a wrecked LongEz in my shop now (Continental 0-240) which was caused by a poor carb heat system, See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/236048 A friend wrecked his LongEz, and was badly injured, due to not fully using carb heat; See https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/213001 Another friend had icing induced engine failure , and found a big tree in the field fate selected for him, which killed him; https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aircraft-crashed-after-engine-cut-out-due-to-ice-inquest-hears-1.3407962 If you can't afford fuel injection, get carb heat muffs on headers both sides and make sure you get the heat rises called for in the FARs - it’s one of those regs that's “written in blood”. And don't be shy about using heat all the way down to touchdown, and warming the engine every 500ft - those pipes don't have much thermal mass and quickly lose the ability to heat the air adequately. Another thing I’ve noticed about fixed wing pilots is that many apply carb heat as if they were doing harm to the engine, and thus dont seem to like leaving it on. While it’s true that max power is with cold air, you only need that on a climb out. So I’m puzzled when a pilot selects carb heat on the downwind, then turns it off on finals, just when going through the most vulnerable phase of the approach. If you believe that carb heat harms the engine in some way, keep in mind that all Robinson R22 helicopters (Lycoming 0-320/360) run with carb heat on all the time (unless you live in the desert of course...) Fly safe, and land with heat :^) Bill Allen
Agreed...love not worrying about carb ice! Corbin On Jan 3, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Martin, Where did your Tri-Q end up? Cheers, Jay I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life. I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!!
On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I. The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started. One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know. After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive. I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see. Thanks for taking the time. <INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
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Corbin
N33QR
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|
We traded it for a Long EZE. My son flew the TriQ out to Missouri and the Long EZE back. We are rebuilding the Long now. Almost done. I miss the TriQ, but the Long EZE will be better for my son at this point fir travel.
On Jan 3, 2021, at 10:13 AM, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...> wrote:
Agreed...love not worrying about carb ice! Corbin On Jan 3, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Martin, Where did your Tri-Q end up? Cheers, Jay From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Martin Skiby
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 9:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life. I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!!
On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I. The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started. One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know. After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive. I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see. Thanks for taking the time. <INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
-- Corbin N33QR
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Re: Cutting control cable
britmcman99
If the cable is the type that has no fitting on the end then fully withdraw the cable from the sheath that you are shortening. If not possible then try inserting a narrow section of feeler gage steel into the sleeve. It will not afford so much protection from your Dremel city of wheel but will nudge the cable away from the side being cut. I have done a lot of motorcycle cables. Phil
On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:54 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Wrap it with masking tape. Use a die grinder with cutting blade. You'll use the die grinder for lots of things. Fly safe. Mike I need to shorten an armored cable, like a bicycle cable. What's the best way to cut the armor without damaging the strands?
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Jim Patillo
Fellas,
I’ve only had carb ice in my 0200A a couple times over 20 years of flight, which I found interesting. I typically do not use carb heat on landing (not a recommendation by me, your findings may vary). I also have a 4:1 header.
Only had vapor lock one time during an airshow. Took the gascolator off, rerouted the fuel line so it did not pass near the oil tank and never had the problem again.
About ready to head the Q back to the Bay Area for two days. Safe flying to you all.
Jim
N46JP Q200
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 10:13:53 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Agreed...love not worrying about carb ice!
Corbin
On Jan 3, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Martin,
Where did your Tri-Q end up?
Cheers,
Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Martin Skiby
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 9:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled
the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life.
I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!!
On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year.
I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing.
We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped
on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course.
The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I.
The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started.
One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan
carbs are on the top of the engine as most know.
After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive.
I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see.
Thanks for taking the time.
<INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
--
Corbin
N33QR
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Corbin
Agreed...love not worrying about carb ice! Corbin
On Jan 3, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Martin, Where did your Tri-Q end up? Cheers, Jay From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Martin Skiby
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 9:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life. I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!!
On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I. The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started. One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know. After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive. I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see. Thanks for taking the time. <INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
--
Corbin
N33QR
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Jay Scheevel
Martin, Where did your Tri-Q end up? Cheers, Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Martin Skiby Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 9:39 AM To: main@q-list.groups.io Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life. I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!!
On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I. The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started. One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know. After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive. I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see. Thanks for taking the time. <INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
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I had it once very bad just as I was about to head over the mountains. It was in the TriQ200. 70 degree day also. Tried everything else first as I really did not expect the issue to be ice. I turned back toward the valley and pulled the carb heat. The engine sputtered for a bit then roared back to life.
I had a cold air ram system into the carb for max performance. The 0200 is famous for carb ice so I recommend NEVER flying without a working carb heat! Unless you have fuel injection like Corbin!!
Fly safe!
On Jan 2, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year.
I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing.
We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses. I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final. At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown. After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course.
The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I.
The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started.
One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off. Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know.
After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference. The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first. Very impressive.
I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see.
Thanks for taking the time.
Keith
N494K
<INDUCTION ICING STUDY.doc>
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Chris,
I just sent you a long dissertation off line due to length and photos.
Look for it. May go to junk folder. Hope it helps.
Kevin
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Jan 2, 2021, at 8:14 PM, Dorothea Keats <dkeats@tbaytel.net> wrote:
Thanks Jay----------- I have the plus 1 degree in the canard so I will go with your suggestion. A question for the tri gears with the flat canard. How do you set up your pushrod tubes for the bellcranks on the elevators?. Because my canard is flat the bellcrank connection is lower than the top of the fuel tank, and NO, I am not notching out the tank. It will almost impossible to bend the 2024 aluminum tubes, so I was thinking either use 1/2 inch x .035 4130 and either bend, or notch and weld to what I need, maybe even going past the bellcrank and coming back. Something like half a Z, or ,use a 1/2 inch bolt, bend it to the proper angle and then fit it and slide it into some 2024 and hard rivet it in place. I need about 30 degrees to make it work. I think I saw in one of the newsletters they had some type of mechanism on the canard and the control tubes went to this and then back to the bellcrank, but there has to be easier way.
Any thoughts. Thanks------------ Chris
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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Re: Cutting control cable
Jay Scheevel
From the answers I see popping up, I think there is some uncertainty about which type of cable you are asking about. Is it multi-strand braided stainless control cable, or is it a center wire push-pull cable with a spiral wound sheath? Cheers, Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Hoxie via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 7:31 PM
To: Q-list IO <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Cutting control cable I need to shorten an armored cable, like a bicycle cable. What's the best way to cut the armor without damaging the strands?
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Re: New years day flight video
Bruce Crain
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Jan 3, 2021, at 6:57 AM, Anthony P <solarant@...> wrote:
Nice flying Dave!
Why don't you fly over Southern New Ipswich one of these days? I'd like to see the underside of your ship. (maybe even the canopy if you're daring.)
My engine went bad on the 27th, so I'm grounded for a while. Tandem wing dream gets delayed again.
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Bruce Crain
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Bruce Crain
I would say move to Oklahoma but we just had a snow storm move through. Hope the banana crop is ok!
On Jan 2, 2021, at 9:06 PM, Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...> wrote:
Caian't See!!!
So, what's the problem?
-------- Original message -------- Date: 1/2/21 5:33 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Q-List] Sunshine
THIS is 31°F and sunshine. Well at least that is what they forecast. Good news is tomorrow is supposed to be as beautiful as today.
It’ll get better, someday.
If you got um, fly um!!!!
<IMG_2857.jpeg>
Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B 548 hrs
Luana, IA.
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Earnest Martin <MartinErni@...>
Earnest Martin
40 Glen Cove Drive
Arden NC 28704-3219
828-230-5378
martinerni@aol.com
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Re: New years day flight video
Nice flying Dave!
Why don't you fly over Southern New Ipswich one of these days? I'd like to see the underside of your ship. (maybe even the canopy if you're daring.)
My engine went bad on the 27th, so I'm grounded for a while. Tandem wing dream gets delayed again.
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Re: Cutting control cable
Wrap it with masking tape. Use a die grinder with cutting blade. You'll use the die grinder for lots of things. Fly safe. Mike
I need to shorten an armored cable, like a bicycle cable. What's the best way to cut the armor without damaging the strands?
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