Date   

Re: broken plane

One Sky Dog
 

On Jan 4, 2021, at 5:34 PM, Kevin Boddicker <trumanst@...> wrote:

The SKY King of broken planes.

: >)))) 

Kevin

On Jan 4, 2021, at 11:07 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

Jay,

I may have already been outed.

No tandem wing flying for me but I have been trading glass for air. I did a Cherokee nose bowl repair. Replaced the factory crappy sandwich stiffeners. He has taken me flying twice and let’s me fly if I want. Did my first right seat take off and landing in a Cherokee 140 last week. We are right in the middle of flying season, cool air, no snow, clear skies, 67 F today. We also landed on the dry lake bed near Wilson Az. and another dirt strip 2500 ft 4200 MSL.

The Oklahoma oil line problem on the Tri-Pacer has resulted in me making a precautionary landing on the way home from Ogden in September. The #2 rod bearing has failed. I do not know the crank condition. Looking at repair options now plane is at Benson hangar.

King of broken airplanes,

Charlie a.k.a. One Sky Dog


Re: Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs

One Sky Dog
 

Vern,

The canard belly fairing is added after the canard layup per plan. It was to provide a channel for cooling air exit and fuse matchup. You could probably clean it off.

VG’s YES!!!
I tried everything to avoid them but needed with GU. I have not put them on the new canard yet. I do not want to damage them while I am still throwing things around.

Charlie


On Jan 5, 2021, at 2:14 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


Understood. The additions on the bottom of the Canard are one item I was wondering about with my own Canard. I also have the same MKII gear stubs and the non-anhedral planform and could not see any usefulness for the additions on the lower Canard surface until now. Your photo clarifies; with the original VW rather than O-200/Corvair the plans designed D'fly narrow firewall would not make the grade. In the photo view it is clear why the aerodynamics would be better with a "no taper" to the L.E. of the Canard. My fuselage is all Q, therefore a conventional Q-200 cowl will be acceptable for fitup. I will calculate the cooling area with the flat 6 but I doubt any problems would arise compared to the flat 4 being used.  William is very clear on the cooling area size required. The actual flight testing has proven it as well. 

 I will be cutting the span of both the Canard and Wing to "Q" config..18 feet and filling in the MKII stub holes due to my revision to use Wittman Buttercup gear design (I own a numbered plans set from Ed Luce for the Buttercup), and possibly removing the two fairings on the lower Canard surface. I am unsure how those fairings were applied.. peel ply and layup and then bonded or if they were made as 
part of the Canard layup. If done as part of the layup then the sleeping dog will stay asleep and the fairings will stay put. 

 Do we need vortex generators with the D-fly airfoils? I do not see them on your aircraft in the photo. 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 2:35 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 
My Dragonfly in 1995 with 1835 cc (UN)HAPI engine the side now follows approximately where the cheeks were.

<image0.jpeg>



On Jan 5, 2021, at 1:03 PM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

I did not actually widen the firewall. The Corvair is wider than a VW. On the stock Dragonfly the fuse is 3” wider than at the front of the canard. An aero guy told me that makes the air over the canard move sideways and not a good thing. I glued a wedge of foam to the existing glass and shaped it t morph to the canard.

Charlie


On Jan 5, 2021, at 11:50 AM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 You widened the firewall for extra room within the cabin or due to requirements for the engine mount? 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 3:17 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 
I used the WW nose bowl As a start. Widened the fuselage at the firewall and morphed the two shapes together.


On Jan 4, 2021, at 4:03 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Charlie.. did you base your cowling using the WW 750 nosebowl or did you fab up this unit?   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 3:44 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 

Looks like you are getting there, Charlie. It would be great to have both you and Bob show up in two Dragonflies. Bruce would do a little dance he would be so happy! Let me know when you get back up to Ogden again for a spell and I will see if I can make a flight over there in my Q. BTW, I changed the name of the thread to keep up with the conversation.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:32 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Cutting control cable

 

Jay,

 

Here are a few.

 

<image001.jpg>

<image002.jpg>

After a bad day of flying!

 

<image003.jpg>

Replacement canard and gear and engine on its feet.
<image004.jpg>

Reworked cowl to make space for MS carb. To replace vapor locking TBI carb.

 

So I still have a problem with right side elevator torque tube alignment with the elevator. I have to drop the canard and cut out the bearing blocks and redo them. Wiring changes, finish rebuilding elevator fairings, engine control hookups and a bunch of other little things. Then start the test flights again. Oh! wheel pants Need to be completed. 

 

I will have to bring my 20 ft barriers to put around it as it ain’t no Lindy nearing 900 hours and 30+ years, 4 engines, 3 canards, 2 owners.


I can only work on it after the snow melts and the temperatures in Ogden are habitable for camping. I hope next summer will be successful and I can show up in a proper airplane at the FOD.

 

Charlie


Re: Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs

Frankenbird Vern
 

Understood. The additions on the bottom of the Canard are one item I was wondering about with my own Canard. I also have the same MKII gear stubs and the non-anhedral planform and could not see any usefulness for the additions on the lower Canard surface until now. Your photo clarifies; with the original VW rather than O-200/Corvair the plans designed D'fly narrow firewall would not make the grade. In the photo view it is clear why the aerodynamics would be better with a "no taper" to the L.E. of the Canard. My fuselage is all Q, therefore a conventional Q-200 cowl will be acceptable for fitup. I will calculate the cooling area with the flat 6 but I doubt any problems would arise compared to the flat 4 being used.  William is very clear on the cooling area size required. The actual flight testing has proven it as well. 

 I will be cutting the span of both the Canard and Wing to "Q" config..18 feet and filling in the MKII stub holes due to my revision to use Wittman Buttercup gear design (I own a numbered plans set from Ed Luce for the Buttercup), and possibly removing the two fairings on the lower Canard surface. I am unsure how those fairings were applied.. peel ply and layup and then bonded or if they were made as 
part of the Canard layup. If done as part of the layup then the sleeping dog will stay asleep and the fairings will stay put. 

 Do we need vortex generators with the D-fly airfoils? I do not see them on your aircraft in the photo. 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 2:35 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 
My Dragonfly in 1995 with 1835 cc (UN)HAPI engine the side now follows approximately where the cheeks were.




On Jan 5, 2021, at 1:03 PM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

I did not actually widen the firewall. The Corvair is wider than a VW. On the stock Dragonfly the fuse is 3” wider than at the front of the canard. An aero guy told me that makes the air over the canard move sideways and not a good thing. I glued a wedge of foam to the existing glass and shaped it t morph to the canard.

Charlie


On Jan 5, 2021, at 11:50 AM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 You widened the firewall for extra room within the cabin or due to requirements for the engine mount? 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 3:17 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 
I used the WW nose bowl As a start. Widened the fuselage at the firewall and morphed the two shapes together.


On Jan 4, 2021, at 4:03 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Charlie.. did you base your cowling using the WW 750 nosebowl or did you fab up this unit?   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 3:44 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 

Looks like you are getting there, Charlie. It would be great to have both you and Bob show up in two Dragonflies. Bruce would do a little dance he would be so happy! Let me know when you get back up to Ogden again for a spell and I will see if I can make a flight over there in my Q. BTW, I changed the name of the thread to keep up with the conversation.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:32 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Cutting control cable

 

Jay,

 

Here are a few.

 

<image001.jpg>

<image002.jpg>

After a bad day of flying!

 

<image003.jpg>

Replacement canard and gear and engine on its feet.
<image004.jpg>

Reworked cowl to make space for MS carb. To replace vapor locking TBI carb.

 

So I still have a problem with right side elevator torque tube alignment with the elevator. I have to drop the canard and cut out the bearing blocks and redo them. Wiring changes, finish rebuilding elevator fairings, engine control hookups and a bunch of other little things. Then start the test flights again. Oh! wheel pants Need to be completed. 

 

I will have to bring my 20 ft barriers to put around it as it ain’t no Lindy nearing 900 hours and 30+ years, 4 engines, 3 canards, 2 owners.


I can only work on it after the snow melts and the temperatures in Ogden are habitable for camping. I hope next summer will be successful and I can show up in a proper airplane at the FOD.

 

Charlie


Re: Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs

One Sky Dog
 

My Dragonfly in 1995 with 1835 cc (UN)HAPI engine the side now follows approximately where the cheeks were.

On Jan 5, 2021, at 1:03 PM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

I did not actually widen the firewall. The Corvair is wider than a VW. On the stock Dragonfly the fuse is 3” wider than at the front of the canard. An aero guy told me that makes the air over the canard move sideways and not a good thing. I glued a wedge of foam to the existing glass and shaped it t morph to the canard.

Charlie


On Jan 5, 2021, at 11:50 AM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 You widened the firewall for extra room within the cabin or due to requirements for the engine mount? 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 3:17 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 
I used the WW nose bowl As a start. Widened the fuselage at the firewall and morphed the two shapes together.


On Jan 4, 2021, at 4:03 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Charlie.. did you base your cowling using the WW 750 nosebowl or did you fab up this unit?   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 3:44 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 

Looks like you are getting there, Charlie. It would be great to have both you and Bob show up in two Dragonflies. Bruce would do a little dance he would be so happy! Let me know when you get back up to Ogden again for a spell and I will see if I can make a flight over there in my Q. BTW, I changed the name of the thread to keep up with the conversation.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:32 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Cutting control cable

 

Jay,

 

Here are a few.

 

<image001.jpg>

<image002.jpg>

After a bad day of flying!

 

<image003.jpg>

Replacement canard and gear and engine on its feet.
<image004.jpg>

Reworked cowl to make space for MS carb. To replace vapor locking TBI carb.

 

So I still have a problem with right side elevator torque tube alignment with the elevator. I have to drop the canard and cut out the bearing blocks and redo them. Wiring changes, finish rebuilding elevator fairings, engine control hookups and a bunch of other little things. Then start the test flights again. Oh! wheel pants Need to be completed. 

 

I will have to bring my 20 ft barriers to put around it as it ain’t no Lindy nearing 900 hours and 30+ years, 4 engines, 3 canards, 2 owners.


I can only work on it after the snow melts and the temperatures in Ogden are habitable for camping. I hope next summer will be successful and I can show up in a proper airplane at the FOD.

 

Charlie


Re: Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs

One Sky Dog
 

I did not actually widen the firewall. The Corvair is wider than a VW. On the stock Dragonfly the fuse is 3” wider than at the front of the canard. An aero guy told me that makes the air over the canard move sideways and not a good thing. I glued a wedge of foam to the existing glass and shaped it t morph to the canard.

On Jan 5, 2021, at 11:50 AM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 You widened the firewall for extra room within the cabin or due to requirements for the engine mount? 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 3:17 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 
I used the WW nose bowl As a start. Widened the fuselage at the firewall and morphed the two shapes together.


On Jan 4, 2021, at 4:03 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Charlie.. did you base your cowling using the WW 750 nosebowl or did you fab up this unit?   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 3:44 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 

Looks like you are getting there, Charlie. It would be great to have both you and Bob show up in two Dragonflies. Bruce would do a little dance he would be so happy! Let me know when you get back up to Ogden again for a spell and I will see if I can make a flight over there in my Q. BTW, I changed the name of the thread to keep up with the conversation.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:32 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Cutting control cable

 

Jay,

 

Here are a few.

 

<image001.jpg>

<image002.jpg>

After a bad day of flying!

 

<image003.jpg>

Replacement canard and gear and engine on its feet.
<image004.jpg>

Reworked cowl to make space for MS carb. To replace vapor locking TBI carb.

 

So I still have a problem with right side elevator torque tube alignment with the elevator. I have to drop the canard and cut out the bearing blocks and redo them. Wiring changes, finish rebuilding elevator fairings, engine control hookups and a bunch of other little things. Then start the test flights again. Oh! wheel pants Need to be completed. 

 

I will have to bring my 20 ft barriers to put around it as it ain’t no Lindy nearing 900 hours and 30+ years, 4 engines, 3 canards, 2 owners.


I can only work on it after the snow melts and the temperatures in Ogden are habitable for camping. I hope next summer will be successful and I can show up in a proper airplane at the FOD.

 

Charlie


Re: Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs

Frankenbird Vern
 

 You widened the firewall for extra room within the cabin or due to requirements for the engine mount? 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 3:17 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 
I used the WW nose bowl As a start. Widened the fuselage at the firewall and morphed the two shapes together.


On Jan 4, 2021, at 4:03 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Charlie.. did you base your cowling using the WW 750 nosebowl or did you fab up this unit?   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 3:44 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 

Looks like you are getting there, Charlie. It would be great to have both you and Bob show up in two Dragonflies. Bruce would do a little dance he would be so happy! Let me know when you get back up to Ogden again for a spell and I will see if I can make a flight over there in my Q. BTW, I changed the name of the thread to keep up with the conversation.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:32 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Cutting control cable

 

Jay,

 

Here are a few.

 

<image001.jpg>

<image002.jpg>

After a bad day of flying!

 

<image003.jpg>

Replacement canard and gear and engine on its feet.
<image004.jpg>

Reworked cowl to make space for MS carb. To replace vapor locking TBI carb.

 

So I still have a problem with right side elevator torque tube alignment with the elevator. I have to drop the canard and cut out the bearing blocks and redo them. Wiring changes, finish rebuilding elevator fairings, engine control hookups and a bunch of other little things. Then start the test flights again. Oh! wheel pants Need to be completed. 

 

I will have to bring my 20 ft barriers to put around it as it ain’t no Lindy nearing 900 hours and 30+ years, 4 engines, 3 canards, 2 owners.


I can only work on it after the snow melts and the temperatures in Ogden are habitable for camping. I hope next summer will be successful and I can show up in a proper airplane at the FOD.

 

Charlie


Re: Your Opinion

Richard Thomson
 

Got one fitted on the TriQ, but only set up currently to warn when it gets to 5 Degrees C. Might have a look to add a scale on the EFIS for a constant readout.

Br

Rich T.

On 05/01/2021 13:23, Mike Dwyer wrote:
I have a carb temp gauge and have observed the temp at different conditions.

At idle the carb runs quite hot.  Probably from engine hearing and no airflow around it.  

At full power, same thing.  More engine heat and more airflow.

At low power cruise it gets quite cold in the carb, 40F to 50F lower than the ambient air.

Strangely at no power glide the carb actually gets warmer.  Probably the fuel flow is way down and not cooling the carb.

So my observation is that carb ice takes a really humid day or flying through visable moisture (a cloud) and it takes some time for the ice to build up at low power cruise.  Here in Florida we are known for humidity and clouds.  I seldom use carb heat.  The way I use it now is after a long slow flight with the carb at or near freezing I get within glide distance of an airport and before reducing power I pull the carb heat.  After the carb is up to 40 or more degrees F the carb heat gets returned to off and I throttle back for landing.  

I'd encourage everyone running a carb to get a carb throttle plate temp sensor.  It's eye opening.  The MA3SPA carb has a pre drilled hole ready to install a sensor.

Mike



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 4:46 AM Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.


On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,

You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r

Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 


Bill

Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.

Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500



--
--
--
--
--


Re: Your Opinion

Jim Patillo
 

Mike, I have a carb temp sensor as well and agree with what you said. I think the cowl being so tight to the engine helps. Like I said, I’ve only experienced decent carb ice in my Q a couple times in 20 years and it’s been in 21 states under many weather conditions. I do use carb heat occasionally.  You just have stay aware of the temps and dew point.

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 7:17:16 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
 
Mike,

Good observations. The big gorilla is the latent heat of evaporation cooling of 40 to 50 degrees F. The higher the fuel vaporization rate the more cooling takes place. In dry west there is usually not enough moisture to condense. That is also why cloud base is at 15,000 ft and above with little moisture it has to be really cold to make a cloud. It is really cold hanging out between 15 - 19 K MSL you have to dress for it. Even if it is 100 F on launch, hope for a quick thermal climb out to traveling altitude.

I have had ice twice both times in humid air partial throttle. Once with an Ellison and VW on touch and go that turned into a land back.  Once in my old C-172 coming home from Beatrice FOD descending into Hugoton KS with partial power and low clouds. Carb heat quickly fixed it. You should adjust the mixture for the heated air.

I think at full throttle air flow the ice point is past the carb. At idle not enough fuel is being vaporized to maintain freezing temps. Low to mid throttle is the sweet spot.

Exception idling for 5 minutes before take off in humid air. Snowflake warning Graphic accident ice, stall spin on takeoff https://youtu.be/IEikGJJhanA

Carb heat on during takeoff is also not good if waiting a long time do a quick carb heat check before crossing hold short.

Fly safe things to check,

Charlie


On Jan 5, 2021, at 6:24 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


I have a carb temp gauge and have observed the temp at different conditions.

At idle the carb runs quite hot.  Probably from engine hearing and no airflow around it.  

At full power, same thing.  More engine heat and more airflow.

At low power cruise it gets quite cold in the carb, 40F to 50F lower than the ambient air.

Strangely at no power glide the carb actually gets warmer.  Probably the fuel flow is way down and not cooling the carb.

So my observation is that carb ice takes a really humid day or flying through visable moisture (a cloud) and it takes some time for the ice to build up at low power cruise.  Here in Florida we are known for humidity and clouds.  I seldom use carb heat.  The way I use it now is after a long slow flight with the carb at or near freezing I get within glide distance of an airport and before reducing power I pull the carb heat.  After the carb is up to 40 or more degrees F the carb heat gets returned to off and I throttle back for landing.  

I'd encourage everyone running a carb to get a carb throttle plate temp sensor.  It's eye opening.  The MA3SPA carb has a pre drilled hole ready to install a sensor.

Mike



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 4:46 AM Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.


On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,

You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r

Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 


Bill

Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.

Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500



--
--

--

--

--


Re: Your Opinion

One Sky Dog
 

Mike,

Good observations. The big gorilla is the latent heat of evaporation cooling of 40 to 50 degrees F. The higher the fuel vaporization rate the more cooling takes place. In dry west there is usually not enough moisture to condense. That is also why cloud base is at 15,000 ft and above with little moisture it has to be really cold to make a cloud. It is really cold hanging out between 15 - 19 K MSL you have to dress for it. Even if it is 100 F on launch, hope for a quick thermal climb out to traveling altitude.

I have had ice twice both times in humid air partial throttle. Once with an Ellison and VW on touch and go that turned into a land back.  Once in my old C-172 coming home from Beatrice FOD descending into Hugoton KS with partial power and low clouds. Carb heat quickly fixed it. You should adjust the mixture for the heated air.

I think at full throttle air flow the ice point is past the carb. At idle not enough fuel is being vaporized to maintain freezing temps. Low to mid throttle is the sweet spot.

Exception idling for 5 minutes before take off in humid air. Snowflake warning Graphic accident ice, stall spin on takeoff https://youtu.be/IEikGJJhanA

Carb heat on during takeoff is also not good if waiting a long time do a quick carb heat check before crossing hold short.

Fly safe things to check,

Charlie

On Jan 5, 2021, at 6:24 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:


I have a carb temp gauge and have observed the temp at different conditions.

At idle the carb runs quite hot.  Probably from engine hearing and no airflow around it.  

At full power, same thing.  More engine heat and more airflow.

At low power cruise it gets quite cold in the carb, 40F to 50F lower than the ambient air.

Strangely at no power glide the carb actually gets warmer.  Probably the fuel flow is way down and not cooling the carb.

So my observation is that carb ice takes a really humid day or flying through visable moisture (a cloud) and it takes some time for the ice to build up at low power cruise.  Here in Florida we are known for humidity and clouds.  I seldom use carb heat.  The way I use it now is after a long slow flight with the carb at or near freezing I get within glide distance of an airport and before reducing power I pull the carb heat.  After the carb is up to 40 or more degrees F the carb heat gets returned to off and I throttle back for landing.  

I'd encourage everyone running a carb to get a carb throttle plate temp sensor.  It's eye opening.  The MA3SPA carb has a pre drilled hole ready to install a sensor.

Mike



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 4:46 AM Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.


On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,

You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r

Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 


Bill

Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.

Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500



--
--

--

--

--


Re: Your Opinion

Mike Dwyer
 

I have a carb temp gauge and have observed the temp at different conditions.

At idle the carb runs quite hot.  Probably from engine hearing and no airflow around it.  

At full power, same thing.  More engine heat and more airflow.

At low power cruise it gets quite cold in the carb, 40F to 50F lower than the ambient air.

Strangely at no power glide the carb actually gets warmer.  Probably the fuel flow is way down and not cooling the carb.

So my observation is that carb ice takes a really humid day or flying through visable moisture (a cloud) and it takes some time for the ice to build up at low power cruise.  Here in Florida we are known for humidity and clouds.  I seldom use carb heat.  The way I use it now is after a long slow flight with the carb at or near freezing I get within glide distance of an airport and before reducing power I pull the carb heat.  After the carb is up to 40 or more degrees F the carb heat gets returned to off and I throttle back for landing.  

I'd encourage everyone running a carb to get a carb throttle plate temp sensor.  It's eye opening.  The MA3SPA carb has a pre drilled hole ready to install a sensor.

Mike



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 4:46 AM Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.


On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,

You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r

Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 


Bill

Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.

Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500



--
--

--

--

--


Re: Your Opinion

Bill Allen
 

Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.


On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,

You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r

Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 


Bill

Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.

Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500



--
--

--

--

--


Re: Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs

One Sky Dog
 

I used the WW nose bowl As a start. Widened the fuselage at the firewall and morphed the two shapes together.


On Jan 4, 2021, at 4:03 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Charlie.. did you base your cowling using the WW 750 nosebowl or did you fab up this unit?   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 3:44 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Charlie's Dragonfly Repairs
 

Looks like you are getting there, Charlie. It would be great to have both you and Bob show up in two Dragonflies. Bruce would do a little dance he would be so happy! Let me know when you get back up to Ogden again for a spell and I will see if I can make a flight over there in my Q. BTW, I changed the name of the thread to keep up with the conversation.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 1:32 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Cutting control cable

 

Jay,

 

Here are a few.

 

<image001.jpg>

<image002.jpg>

After a bad day of flying!

 

<image003.jpg>

Replacement canard and gear and engine on its feet.
<image004.jpg>

Reworked cowl to make space for MS carb. To replace vapor locking TBI carb.

 

So I still have a problem with right side elevator torque tube alignment with the elevator. I have to drop the canard and cut out the bearing blocks and redo them. Wiring changes, finish rebuilding elevator fairings, engine control hookups and a bunch of other little things. Then start the test flights again. Oh! wheel pants Need to be completed. 

 

I will have to bring my 20 ft barriers to put around it as it ain’t no Lindy nearing 900 hours and 30+ years, 4 engines, 3 canards, 2 owners.


I can only work on it after the snow melts and the temperatures in Ogden are habitable for camping. I hope next summer will be successful and I can show up in a proper airplane at the FOD.

 

Charlie


Re: Another flight report.

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Sam,

 

Glad you got in your first of the year. I would freeze my fingers off if I was doing annual this time of year. I am kind of stupid since mine is now due by the end of August. But I figure it will work like this…return from OSH…do annual…fly to FOD.  Best laid plans.

 

I like the view out your glass. Looks like good flying weather, and you are probably toasty warm from the frictional heating caused by high velocity airflow on the outside of the plane. Seriously?? Your green arc goes to 195 IAS, wow!.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 4:42 PM
To: Q-List@groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Another flight report.

 

I'm sorry I didn't make a January 1st flight, but at least I made a January 4th flight. I was a little delayed by completing my annual condition inspection, plus the weather wasn't the greatest. I made a significant change to my fuel injection system, removing the backup injectors from the throttle body, and completely reprogramming the mixture map for the system. All in all, I'm glad I did it and I think it's going to be a good thing.

 

Today I got up for about 40 minutes and proved out the new system, and all is good. But I tell you, there's nothing like staying in the air to remain current. As always, my biggest challenge is maintaining my proper air speeds in the pattern. I always seem to be about 10 miles an hour faster, which certainly messes up my landing. It requires close attention.

 

It was fun to get back up again today.

 

Sam Hoskins 

Q-200 

 

 

 


Re: Your Opinion

Mike Dwyer
 

Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.


On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,

You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r

Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 


Bill

Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.

Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500



--
--

--

--


Re: Another flight report.

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Perfect!  Thanks.

Corbin

On Jan 4, 2021, at 7:15 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Corbin,



On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 5:54 PM Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Glad you got up in the air!  

What MPH do you look for on final?  I wonder if I’m a tad slow at 85mph on final and trying to touch down around 75mph (not looking inside by that point).

Corbin

On Jan 4, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


I'm sorry I didn't make a January 1st flight, but at least I made a January 4th flight. I was a little delayed by completing my annual condition inspection, plus the weather wasn't the greatest. I made a significant change to my fuel injection system, removing the backup injectors from the throttle body, and completely reprogramming the mixture map for the system. All in all, I'm glad I did it and I think it's going to be a good thing.

Today I got up for about 40 minutes and proved out the new system, and all is good. But I tell you, there's nothing like staying in the air to remain current. As always, my biggest challenge is maintaining my proper air speeds in the pattern. I always seem to be about 10 miles an hour faster, which certainly messes up my landing. It requires close attention.

It was fun to get back up again today.

Sam Hoskins 
Q-200 



<PXL_20210104_191706503.jpg>

--

Corbin 
N33QR

<PXL_20210104_191706503~2.jpg>

--

Corbin 
N33QR


Re: Cutting control cable

John Hoxie
 

Phil & others,
Thanx for everyone's input. I was able to withdraw the inner cable. I sucked some teflon WD-40 through with the shop vac. I then used a flat file diagonally and flat filed to finish. I then reinserted the inner cable. My ultralight throttle quadrant is back together now.


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 5:34 PM, Kevin Boddicker
<trumanst@...> wrote:
The SKY King of broken planes.

: >)))) 

Kevin

On Jan 4, 2021, at 11:07 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

Jay,

I may have already been outed.

No tandem wing flying for me but I have been trading glass for air. I did a Cherokee nose bowl repair. Replaced the factory crappy sandwich stiffeners. He has taken me flying twice and let’s me fly if I want. Did my first right seat take off and landing in a Cherokee 140 last week. We are right in the middle of flying season, cool air, no snow, clear skies, 67 F today. We also landed on the dry lake bed near Wilson Az. and another dirt strip 2500 ft 4200 MSL.

The Oklahoma oil line problem on the Tri-Pacer has resulted in me making a precautionary landing on the way home from Ogden in September. The #2 rod bearing has failed. I do not know the crank condition. Looking at repair options now plane is at Benson hangar.

King of broken airplanes,

Charlie a.k.a. One Sky Dog



On Jan 4, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Sounds like the way to go, John. I would take Charlie’s advice.

 

For those who don’t know Charlie is One Sky Dog. I hope I haven’t blown your “witness protection program” cover, Charlie!

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 9:29 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Cutting control cable

 

With all the analysis and getting out the chainsaw equivalent die grinder and pumping up the compressor.

 

As I used to tell my students power tools are not always faster or better.

 

With the cable in the spiral determine length. Remove plastic coating if present. With pliers kink the spiral to open up a coil where you want to cut it. File diagonally with the corner of a file to cut half way thru then use pliers to bend back and forth to break at the file cut. Controlled operation no chance of damage to inner cable no slip of the die grinder.

 

You are the mechanic in charge, 40 years of manufacturing and maintenance. 
Cut many cables.

 

One Sky Dog

 



On Jan 3, 2021, at 7:39 PM, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:

It has a mutistrand center and I believe spiral wrap. Not sure of material type. Was hesitant to pull the center back because I think the friction may be too much to push it in place later, especially if it collapses slightly. One thing I can try is to raise up one end and put a lube on it to reduce friction. It probably hasn't been lubed in many years. 

 

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 12:09 PM, Phil Lankford via groups.io

<britmcman@...> wrote:

If the cable is the type that has no fitting on the end then fully withdraw the cable from the sheath that you are shortening. If not possible then try inserting a narrow section of feeler gage steel into the sleeve. It will not afford so much protection from your Dremel city of wheel but will nudge the cable away from the side being cut. I have done a lot of motorcycle cables.  Phil 



On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:54 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:



Wrap it with masking tape.  Use a die grinder with cutting blade.  You'll use the die grinder for lots of things.

Fly safe.

Mike

 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 9:31 PM John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I need to shorten an armored cable, like a bicycle cable. What's the best way to cut the armor without damaging the strands? 




Re: Another flight report.

Sam Hoskins
 

Corbin,



On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 5:54 PM Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Glad you got up in the air!  

What MPH do you look for on final?  I wonder if I’m a tad slow at 85mph on final and trying to touch down around 75mph (not looking inside by that point).

Corbin

On Jan 4, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


I'm sorry I didn't make a January 1st flight, but at least I made a January 4th flight. I was a little delayed by completing my annual condition inspection, plus the weather wasn't the greatest. I made a significant change to my fuel injection system, removing the backup injectors from the throttle body, and completely reprogramming the mixture map for the system. All in all, I'm glad I did it and I think it's going to be a good thing.

Today I got up for about 40 minutes and proved out the new system, and all is good. But I tell you, there's nothing like staying in the air to remain current. As always, my biggest challenge is maintaining my proper air speeds in the pattern. I always seem to be about 10 miles an hour faster, which certainly messes up my landing. It requires close attention.

It was fun to get back up again today.

Sam Hoskins 
Q-200 



<PXL_20210104_191706503.jpg>

--

Corbin 
N33QR


Re: Cutting control cable

Kevin Boddicker
 

The SKY King of broken planes.

: >)))) 

Kevin

On Jan 4, 2021, at 11:07 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

Jay,

I may have already been outed.

No tandem wing flying for me but I have been trading glass for air. I did a Cherokee nose bowl repair. Replaced the factory crappy sandwich stiffeners. He has taken me flying twice and let’s me fly if I want. Did my first right seat take off and landing in a Cherokee 140 last week. We are right in the middle of flying season, cool air, no snow, clear skies, 67 F today. We also landed on the dry lake bed near Wilson Az. and another dirt strip 2500 ft 4200 MSL.

The Oklahoma oil line problem on the Tri-Pacer has resulted in me making a precautionary landing on the way home from Ogden in September. The #2 rod bearing has failed. I do not know the crank condition. Looking at repair options now plane is at Benson hangar.

King of broken airplanes,

Charlie a.k.a. One Sky Dog



On Jan 4, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Sounds like the way to go, John. I would take Charlie’s advice.

 

For those who don’t know Charlie is One Sky Dog. I hope I haven’t blown your “witness protection program” cover, Charlie!

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2021 9:29 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Cutting control cable

 

With all the analysis and getting out the chainsaw equivalent die grinder and pumping up the compressor.

 

As I used to tell my students power tools are not always faster or better.

 

With the cable in the spiral determine length. Remove plastic coating if present. With pliers kink the spiral to open up a coil where you want to cut it. File diagonally with the corner of a file to cut half way thru then use pliers to bend back and forth to break at the file cut. Controlled operation no chance of damage to inner cable no slip of the die grinder.

 

You are the mechanic in charge, 40 years of manufacturing and maintenance. 
Cut many cables.

 

One Sky Dog

 



On Jan 3, 2021, at 7:39 PM, John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns@...> wrote:

It has a mutistrand center and I believe spiral wrap. Not sure of material type. Was hesitant to pull the center back because I think the friction may be too much to push it in place later, especially if it collapses slightly. One thing I can try is to raise up one end and put a lube on it to reduce friction. It probably hasn't been lubed in many years. 

 

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 12:09 PM, Phil Lankford via groups.io

<britmcman@...> wrote:

If the cable is the type that has no fitting on the end then fully withdraw the cable from the sheath that you are shortening. If not possible then try inserting a narrow section of feeler gage steel into the sleeve. It will not afford so much protection from your Dremel city of wheel but will nudge the cable away from the side being cut. I have done a lot of motorcycle cables.  Phil 



On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:54 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:



Wrap it with masking tape.  Use a die grinder with cutting blade.  You'll use the die grinder for lots of things.

Fly safe.

Mike

 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 9:31 PM John Hoxie via groups.io <hoxdesigns=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I need to shorten an armored cable, like a bicycle cable. What's the best way to cut the armor without damaging the strands? 




Re: Another flight report.

Bruce Crain
 

Fantastic Sammy!  Lovin’ that panel!  Lots of knobs that I don’t have any idea about their use.  Hopefully next week I will join the ranks!
Bruce 


On Jan 4, 2021, at 4:54 PM, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Glad you got up in the air!  

What MPH do you look for on final?  I wonder if I’m a tad slow at 85mph on final and trying to touch down around 75mph (not looking inside by that point).

Corbin

On Jan 4, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


I'm sorry I didn't make a January 1st flight, but at least I made a January 4th flight. I was a little delayed by completing my annual condition inspection, plus the weather wasn't the greatest. I made a significant change to my fuel injection system, removing the backup injectors from the throttle body, and completely reprogramming the mixture map for the system. All in all, I'm glad I did it and I think it's going to be a good thing.

Today I got up for about 40 minutes and proved out the new system, and all is good. But I tell you, there's nothing like staying in the air to remain current. As always, my biggest challenge is maintaining my proper air speeds in the pattern. I always seem to be about 10 miles an hour faster, which certainly messes up my landing. It requires close attention.

It was fun to get back up again today.

Sam Hoskins 
Q-200 



<PXL_20210104_191706503.jpg>

--

Corbin 
N33QR



Re: Another flight report.

Corbin <c_geiser@...>
 

Glad you got up in the air!  

What MPH do you look for on final?  I wonder if I’m a tad slow at 85mph on final and trying to touch down around 75mph (not looking inside by that point).

Corbin

On Jan 4, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


I'm sorry I didn't make a January 1st flight, but at least I made a January 4th flight. I was a little delayed by completing my annual condition inspection, plus the weather wasn't the greatest. I made a significant change to my fuel injection system, removing the backup injectors from the throttle body, and completely reprogramming the mixture map for the system. All in all, I'm glad I did it and I think it's going to be a good thing.

Today I got up for about 40 minutes and proved out the new system, and all is good. But I tell you, there's nothing like staying in the air to remain current. As always, my biggest challenge is maintaining my proper air speeds in the pattern. I always seem to be about 10 miles an hour faster, which certainly messes up my landing. It requires close attention.

It was fun to get back up again today.

Sam Hoskins 
Q-200 



<PXL_20210104_191706503.jpg>

--

Corbin 
N33QR

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