Date   

Re: Flight Report - Cold!

Dave Dugas
 

Nice report Mike. I also took a short flight today due to the warm weather....33 degrees F with sunny skies. Beautiful day here in New England..
Dave D


On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 4:10 PM, Mike Dwyer
<q200pilot@...> wrote:
Hi Everyone.  Today started out cold and blue skies with a light NE wind.  Perfect except for the cold.  It's 15 below zero Floridian.  That's 55F for you northerners.  70F is the coldest temp that a Floridian will go out wearing a short sleeve shirt.  And if we have to, God forbid, find a long sleeve shirt or worst yet a jacket then your going to hear some complaining.

Anyway, back to the report.  The mission today was to hard mount the Camera Gyro Stabilizer and see if I can make it work in the airplane.  Link to G6
So I used one of my stick on deals with some foam blocks to damp the vibration and stuck it to the top of the canopy.  Weird, as I opened and closed the canopy it stayed level.  Maybe this is going to work.  It's starting to get a bit grey out there but maybe it's not too bad so let's go.  I had the hair dryier on blowing hot air into the cowling and the engine is now showing 65F (or -5 Floridian). 

Dragged her out and she fired up pretty well.  I pull the carb heat (think that might be akin to a choke).  Then I used the Hoskins 2 throttle pumps and pull thru 8 blades then jump in and start up.  Had to pump one more time to keep her going.  As I taxied to RWY36 I could tell the camera stabilizer wasn't going to work out well.  The vibration from taxi had slowly made the thing hold the camera at a wonkie angle.  I got warmed up (over 100F oil) and got cleared for take off.  Headed north then west over Tarpon Springs.  Got some video and will post it if anything turned out.  But it's getting cloudier.  No blue sky left.  

I notice my carb temp is showing 22F.  That's probably the coldest I've ever seen it.  The outside air is about 50F, I'm only at 1500'.  Then I start seeing scud clouds at my altitude.  That means I'm right at the dew point.  Don't like that much.  I'd like to go back and land.  So I tune in the tower and it sounds like they must be giving something away down there cause it's crazy.  Trainers mixing it up with 737's.  On second thought I'll just hang around the beach for a while.  I'm not in any hurry so I'm at 50% power and my oil temp is showing 122F... I don't think I've ever seen that as low either.  I have an oil cooler but I cover it for the winter.

After the tower calms down I call in 8 miles out and am cleared for RWY 4, wind calm.  I like that.  So I'm keeping the power up and decide I'm in gliding distance so I pull the carb heat full on.  I watch the carb temp go from 22, 30, 32, 40, 45  and no hickups.  I just left the heat on for the landing because I hadn't reduced power and was high and fast  resulting in a mostly no-power glide.  Oh and the wind, I'd say it was a 10K left crosswind judging by the windsock.  Anyway, I cheated death again.  I think I'll wait for the next 70+F sunny day... 

Fly Safe,

Mike Dwyer

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


Flight Report - Cold!

Mike Dwyer
 

Hi Everyone.  Today started out cold and blue skies with a light NE wind.  Perfect except for the cold.  It's 15 below zero Floridian.  That's 55F for you northerners.  70F is the coldest temp that a Floridian will go out wearing a short sleeve shirt.  And if we have to, God forbid, find a long sleeve shirt or worst yet a jacket then your going to hear some complaining.

Anyway, back to the report.  The mission today was to hard mount the Camera Gyro Stabilizer and see if I can make it work in the airplane.  Link to G6
So I used one of my stick on deals with some foam blocks to damp the vibration and stuck it to the top of the canopy.  Weird, as I opened and closed the canopy it stayed level.  Maybe this is going to work.  It's starting to get a bit grey out there but maybe it's not too bad so let's go.  I had the hair dryier on blowing hot air into the cowling and the engine is now showing 65F (or -5 Floridian). 

Dragged her out and she fired up pretty well.  I pull the carb heat (think that might be akin to a choke).  Then I used the Hoskins 2 throttle pumps and pull thru 8 blades then jump in and start up.  Had to pump one more time to keep her going.  As I taxied to RWY36 I could tell the camera stabilizer wasn't going to work out well.  The vibration from taxi had slowly made the thing hold the camera at a wonkie angle.  I got warmed up (over 100F oil) and got cleared for take off.  Headed north then west over Tarpon Springs.  Got some video and will post it if anything turned out.  But it's getting cloudier.  No blue sky left.  

I notice my carb temp is showing 22F.  That's probably the coldest I've ever seen it.  The outside air is about 50F, I'm only at 1500'.  Then I start seeing scud clouds at my altitude.  That means I'm right at the dew point.  Don't like that much.  I'd like to go back and land.  So I tune in the tower and it sounds like they must be giving something away down there cause it's crazy.  Trainers mixing it up with 737's.  On second thought I'll just hang around the beach for a while.  I'm not in any hurry so I'm at 50% power and my oil temp is showing 122F... I don't think I've ever seen that as low either.  I have an oil cooler but I cover it for the winter.

After the tower calms down I call in 8 miles out and am cleared for RWY 4, wind calm.  I like that.  So I'm keeping the power up and decide I'm in gliding distance so I pull the carb heat full on.  I watch the carb temp go from 22, 30, 32, 40, 45  and no hickups.  I just left the heat on for the landing because I hadn't reduced power and was high and fast  resulting in a mostly no-power glide.  Oh and the wind, I'd say it was a 10K left crosswind judging by the windsock.  Anyway, I cheated death again.  I think I'll wait for the next 70+F sunny day... 

Fly Safe,

Mike Dwyer

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


Re: How to navigate our Q-List web site

Terry Adams
 

Thanks for the directions.  Actually discovered I was logged in with the wrong email/pw, thus nothing was open to me.  All good now.

Terry
N41521
KSCK

On 1/8/2021 10:57 AM, Sam Hoskins wrote:
Here's some how-to-do-it tips. This isn't everything.

Desktop computer: The main site is https://q-list.groups.io/g/main  Note that plain https://q-list.groups.io also works. There is a whole bunch of menu stuff along the left portion of the screen. 

Smartphone:  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main On my Android phone, the menus are at the bottom of the screen. You can tap on the three line "More" to access more menus. Don't know what the Apple stuff looks like.

To start a new topic, click on Messages then New Topic. Please, use this feature. 

To look at photos, click on the Photos link. If you don't already have a photo album, click on New Album and create one.  We prefer you use your real name, and your N Number is good as well. Try not to create multiple albums for yourself. Rather, give the photos a searchable name and that should help us find stuff.

Files: Generally use for reference documents, reprints, packing lists, plans, PDF files, etc. I know there a re a lot of photos there, but they are probably better suited in the Photos section. I am slowly trying to categorize some of these in to coherent folders, such as Packing Lists and W&B information but it's a bit tedious, plus I get kind of bored with it easily. Suggestions are welcome.

Databases: Just two lists here; Completed Aircraft and Valuable Links.

Calendar:  Right now, we're not using it.

Wiki:  Someone want to write one?

Hope this helps.

Sam

-- 
Communication ink and paper free


Re: Your Opinion

 

I about forgot to mention Dwyer.
Thank you too sir.
 
I regard this discussion as one of the more important discussions to my and our personal safety that I can remember on this LIST.
Thanks again.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Keith Welsh" <klw544@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2021 23:11:10 GMT

Regarding the discussion on monitoring carb temp.
 
I got out my Thorp's Lycoming 0-320 manual. 
The manual has a full page on the use of carb heat but the part that got my attention was:
"WHEN ICE HAS BEEN MELTED FROM THE INDUCTION SYSTEM, HEAT SHOULD BE USED AS LONG AS KNOWN OR SUSPECTED ICING EXIST.
"ONLY THOSE AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH A CARBURETOR AIR TEMPERATURE GAGE MAY PARTIAL HEAT BE USED TO KEEP THE MIXTURE TEMPERATURE ABOVE FREEZING POINT (32F)"
 
So without a temp gage we are best guessing until something noticeable occures.
Ordered one from Spruce a few minutes ago.
 
Thanks to all for the great lesson on carb ice and especially Mr. Allen, Thank you sir.
Keith
 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jerry Marstall" <jnmarstall@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2021 08:19:42 -0500

GREAT article Mike. Thks. Jerry 

 
-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...>
Date: 1/7/21 7:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
 

 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:24 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Mike.. what temp gauge are you using.. do you remember the supplier? My O-200 Cessna did not have a carb temp gauge but 
 to me that was one instrument it should have had added. I will be adding to both my Experimentals. 
 
 Had carb ice in my 1962 150 once. I made a habit of pulling the heat on every 5 or so minutes in cruise after then. Not a serious
problem but it did get my attention VFR over Eastern Oklahoma between cloud!      
 
 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 7:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
 
I have a carb temp gauge and have observed the temp at different conditions.
 
At idle the carb runs quite hot.  Probably from engine hearing and no airflow around it.  
 
At full power, same thing.  More engine heat and more airflow.
 
At low power cruise it gets quite cold in the carb, 40F to 50F lower than the ambient air.
 
Strangely at no power glide the carb actually gets warmer.  Probably the fuel flow is way down and not cooling the carb.
 
So my observation is that carb ice takes a really humid day or flying through visable moisture (a cloud) and it takes some time for the ice to build up at low power cruise.  Here in Florida we are known for humidity and clouds.  I seldom use carb heat.  The way I use it now is after a long slow flight with the carb at or near freezing I get within glide distance of an airport and before reducing power I pull the carb heat.  After the carb is up to 40 or more degrees F the carb heat gets returned to off and I throttle back for landing.  
 
I'd encourage everyone running a carb to get a carb throttle plate temp sensor.  It's eye opening.  The MA3SPA carb has a pre drilled hole ready to install a sensor.
 
Mike
 
 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 4:46 AM Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 
 
Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)
 
Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....
 
Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.

 

On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,
 
You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r
 
Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 

 
Bill
 
Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.
Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500
--
--
 

 

 

 
--
 

 

 

--
 

 

 

 

 

 

--
 

 

 

 

 

 






Re: Your Opinion

 

Regarding the discussion on monitoring carb temp.
 
I got out my Thorp's Lycoming 0-320 manual. 
The manual has a full page on the use of carb heat but the part that got my attention was:
"WHEN ICE HAS BEEN MELTED FROM THE INDUCTION SYSTEM, HEAT SHOULD BE USED AS LONG AS KNOWN OR SUSPECTED ICING EXIST.
"ONLY THOSE AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH A CARBURETOR AIR TEMPERATURE GAGE MAY PARTIAL HEAT BE USED TO KEEP THE MIXTURE TEMPERATURE ABOVE FREEZING POINT (32F)"
 
So without a temp gage we are best guessing until something noticeable occures.
Ordered one from Spruce a few minutes ago.
 
Thanks to all for the great lesson on carb ice and especially Mr. Allen, Thank you sir.
Keith
 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jerry Marstall" <jnmarstall@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2021 08:19:42 -0500

GREAT article Mike. Thks. Jerry 

 
-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...>
Date: 1/7/21 7:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
 

 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:24 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Mike.. what temp gauge are you using.. do you remember the supplier? My O-200 Cessna did not have a carb temp gauge but 
 to me that was one instrument it should have had added. I will be adding to both my Experimentals. 
 
 Had carb ice in my 1962 150 once. I made a habit of pulling the heat on every 5 or so minutes in cruise after then. Not a serious
problem but it did get my attention VFR over Eastern Oklahoma between cloud!      
 
 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 7:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
 
I have a carb temp gauge and have observed the temp at different conditions.
 
At idle the carb runs quite hot.  Probably from engine hearing and no airflow around it.  
 
At full power, same thing.  More engine heat and more airflow.
 
At low power cruise it gets quite cold in the carb, 40F to 50F lower than the ambient air.
 
Strangely at no power glide the carb actually gets warmer.  Probably the fuel flow is way down and not cooling the carb.
 
So my observation is that carb ice takes a really humid day or flying through visable moisture (a cloud) and it takes some time for the ice to build up at low power cruise.  Here in Florida we are known for humidity and clouds.  I seldom use carb heat.  The way I use it now is after a long slow flight with the carb at or near freezing I get within glide distance of an airport and before reducing power I pull the carb heat.  After the carb is up to 40 or more degrees F the carb heat gets returned to off and I throttle back for landing.  
 
I'd encourage everyone running a carb to get a carb throttle plate temp sensor.  It's eye opening.  The MA3SPA carb has a pre drilled hole ready to install a sensor.
 
Mike
 
 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 4:46 AM Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 
 
Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)
 
Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....
 
Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.

 

On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,
 
You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r
 
Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 

 
Bill
 
Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.
Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500
--
--
 

 

 

 
--
 

 

 

--
 

 

 

 

 

 

--
 

 

 

 

 




anyone know if

Stan Susman <stanpfa@...>
 

Has anyone ever changed a 
q2/200 to a single seat ?

Stan

Q2-200 parts for sale


How to navigate our Q-List web site

Sam Hoskins
 

Here's some how-to-do-it tips. This isn't everything.

Desktop computer: The main site is https://q-list.groups.io/g/main  Note that plain https://q-list.groups.io also works. There is a whole bunch of menu stuff along the left portion of the screen. 

Smartphone:  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main On my Android phone, the menus are at the bottom of the screen. You can tap on the three line "More" to access more menus. Don't know what the Apple stuff looks like.

To start a new topic, click on Messages then New Topic. Please, use this feature. 

To look at photos, click on the Photos link. If you don't already have a photo album, click on New Album and create one.  We prefer you use your real name, and your N Number is good as well. Try not to create multiple albums for yourself. Rather, give the photos a searchable name and that should help us find stuff.

Files: Generally use for reference documents, reprints, packing lists, plans, PDF files, etc. I know there a re a lot of photos there, but they are probably better suited in the Photos section. I am slowly trying to categorize some of these in to coherent folders, such as Packing Lists and W&B information but it's a bit tedious, plus I get kind of bored with it easily. Suggestions are welcome.

Databases: Just two lists here; Completed Aircraft and Valuable Links.

Calendar:  Right now, we're not using it.

Wiki:  Someone want to write one?

Hope this helps.

Sam


Re: T Nuts

Sam Hoskins
 


On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 6:58 PM Dorothea Keats <dkeats@...> wrote:
  I  can't remember if I saw it here or in Sport Aviation, but I used
some 10x 32 T Nuts imbeded in the foam with  flox to hold on my aileron
fairings. Easy to do and a great idea-------------- Chris


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus







Re: Test

Mike Steinsland
 

worked

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 9:55 AM Rick Hole <r.hole@...> wrote:
Test
Rick Hole



--
 
Mike Steinsland


Updated album Dave Dugas Q2 N68DD Autopilot. TruTrak Pictorial Pilot Installation #photo-notice

main@Q-List.groups.io Notification <noreply@...>
 

Dave Dugas updated the album Dave Dugas Q2 N68DD Autopilot. TruTrak Pictorial Pilot Installation: Q2 N68DD Autopilot. TruTrak Pictorial Pilot Installation. Also pictured is the Whelen power supply, which has been removed, along with the Whelen lights. Replaced with AveoFlash leds.


Test

Rick Hole
 

Test
Rick Hole


Re: Photo Corbin Geiser.jpg uploaded #photo-notice

Pete Myers
 

If you follow the “views from your hangar” link in the post, this will initially take you to your login page but will then open the views from your hangar page.
Well it did for me !
Hope this helps,
Pete


On 7 Jan 2021, at 17:01, main@Q-List.groups.io Notification <noreply@groups.io> wrote:



The following photos have been uploaded to the Views from Your Hangar album of the main@Q-List.groups.io group.

By: Sam Hoskins


Re: Photo Corbin Geiser.jpg uploaded #photo-notice

Terry Adams
 

Could someone instruct me in how to find the "Views from the Hanger" album in the main@....  I can log in, I can view the messages, but.....

Terry

On 1/7/2021 9:01 AM, main@Q-List.groups.io Notification wrote:

The following photos have been uploaded to the Views from Your Hangar album of the main@Q-List.groups.io group.

By: Sam Hoskins


-- 
Communication ink and paper free


T Nuts

Chris Walterson
 

I  can't remember if I saw it here or in Sport Aviation, but I used some 10x 32 T Nuts imbeded in the foam with  flox to hold on my aileron fairings. Easy to do and a great idea-------------- Chris


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: Your Opinion

Kevin Boddicker
 

CORRECT!!!!!

On Jan 7, 2021, at 6:49 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

Bill good data,

Summed up three numbers -4C, 25F to 30C, 86 F temperatures with dew point delta less than 15C, 27 F Is in the danger zone.

Basically the temperatures we fly in most of the time. So that leaves the dew point delta as the best clue on carb ice conditions.

Referring to my only certificated data My PA-22 / Lycoming O-320 POH states make sure carb heat works on warm up and to clear out any ice that may have formed. It states carb ice can happen between 20 F and 70F and use carb heat intermittently to check for carb ice if RPM sags. For landing full rich carb heat off unless carb icing conditions prevail. The POH does not mention how to determine when carb icing conditions prevail.

I now have a quick way to check by looking at the OAT to Dew Point spread.

Checking local conditions: KFHU 10:58 Z 5C Dew Point -16C     41F - 3.2F = 37.8F indicates a slim chance to none for carb ice this morning.

KLVK is 6C with Dew Point 4C a spread of 2C ! Looks like carb heat is in order besides looking out for IFR conditions.

KDEH -6C Dew Point -6! Looks like Kevin B will not be flying today. 😢 

Great info,

One Sky Dog


On Jan 7, 2021, at 4:03 AM, Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:


Here’s some more data on carb ice from the Robinson R22 POH.  A heli is different from a fixed wing in that normal takeoffs are at part throttle (ie; not WOT) so making them more susceptible, and they run some heat to get the carb temp gage in the green all the time.  

Bill Allen
<image_6487327.JPG>
<image_6483441.JPG>

On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 at 16:54, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hello everyone,
I hope y'all had a great bringing in of the new year. 
 
I've attached an article I read about once every five years or so regarding carb icing. 
We all know about carb ice and the danger it poses.  I experienced it years ago in my then Aeronca Chief when, in the summer, the engine stopped producing power on final.  At least it would not throttle up when flaring to land and stopped on touchdown.  After setting a bit she started just fine...by hand propping of course. 
 
The highlighted area toward the end of the article gets my curiosity up and is what I would like your opinions on since many of you are much smarter than I.
The reason for asking is that somewhere in the 90's I had the throttle shaft, throttle plate and intake manifold teflon coated on my Quickie and this article is where it all started.
 
One hot humid day back then while looking down the carburetor with the engine running I was surprised at the amount of water that was forming on the throttle plate, the size of the droplets and the time it took for them to run off.  Onan carbs are on the top of the engine as most know.
I found a company in Indy that did industrial teflon coating, Keco Coatings, and they are still there and this is their website https://www.kecocoatings.com/coatings/teflon/
After the Teflon coating was done the water still formed but with a notable difference.  The droplets were miniature sized and it was like a contest to see who could run off the throttle plate first.  Very impressive.
 
I've never sought the opinion of others regarding this article but knowing the breath of knowledge among you Q guys I thought I'd reach out and see.
 
Thanks for taking the time.
Keith
N494K
 
 
 


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Reminder: Corbin Geiser Q-200 Q-Tour - Saturday Jan 9, 2021 09:00 AM Central Time (US and Canada)

Sam Hoskins
 

Corbin purchased a beautiful Q-200, and like most of us, he can't leave well enough alone.  Join us and see this great plane and the mods that Corbin has installed and has planned.

As usual, the session will be broken into two parts.

Sam Hoskins is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: Corbin Geiser Q-200 Q-Tour
Time: Jan 9, 2021 09:00 AM Central Time (US and Canada)
 
Join Zoom Meeting
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main@Q-List.groups.io Notification <noreply@...>
 

The following photos have been uploaded to the Views from Your Hangar album of the main@Q-List.groups.io group.

By: Sam Hoskins


Re: Your Opinion

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

GREAT article Mike. Thks. Jerry 

-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...>
Date: 1/7/21 7:56 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:24 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Mike.. what temp gauge are you using.. do you remember the supplier? My O-200 Cessna did not have a carb temp gauge but 
 to me that was one instrument it should have had added. I will be adding to both my Experimentals. 

 Had carb ice in my 1962 150 once. I made a habit of pulling the heat on every 5 or so minutes in cruise after then. Not a serious
problem but it did get my attention VFR over Eastern Oklahoma between cloud!      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 7:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
 
I have a carb temp gauge and have observed the temp at different conditions.

At idle the carb runs quite hot.  Probably from engine hearing and no airflow around it.  

At full power, same thing.  More engine heat and more airflow.

At low power cruise it gets quite cold in the carb, 40F to 50F lower than the ambient air.

Strangely at no power glide the carb actually gets warmer.  Probably the fuel flow is way down and not cooling the carb.

So my observation is that carb ice takes a really humid day or flying through visable moisture (a cloud) and it takes some time for the ice to build up at low power cruise.  Here in Florida we are known for humidity and clouds.  I seldom use carb heat.  The way I use it now is after a long slow flight with the carb at or near freezing I get within glide distance of an airport and before reducing power I pull the carb heat.  After the carb is up to 40 or more degrees F the carb heat gets returned to off and I throttle back for landing.  

I'd encourage everyone running a carb to get a carb throttle plate temp sensor.  It's eye opening.  The MA3SPA carb has a pre drilled hole ready to install a sensor.

Mike



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 4:46 AM Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.


On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,

You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r

Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 


Bill

Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.

Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500



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Re: Your Opinion

Bill Allen
 

Thanks Mike - I’ll be fitting one on my 0-200 VariEze (based at FD51 in the Keys) where it’s always humid.....

Bill

On Thu, 7 Jan 2021 at 13:56, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:24 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Mike.. what temp gauge are you using.. do you remember the supplier? My O-200 Cessna did not have a carb temp gauge but 
 to me that was one instrument it should have had added. I will be adding to both my Experimentals. 

 Had carb ice in my 1962 150 once. I made a habit of pulling the heat on every 5 or so minutes in cruise after then. Not a serious
problem but it did get my attention VFR over Eastern Oklahoma between cloud!      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 7:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
 
I have a carb temp gauge and have observed the temp at different conditions.

At idle the carb runs quite hot.  Probably from engine hearing and no airflow around it.  

At full power, same thing.  More engine heat and more airflow.

At low power cruise it gets quite cold in the carb, 40F to 50F lower than the ambient air.

Strangely at no power glide the carb actually gets warmer.  Probably the fuel flow is way down and not cooling the carb.

So my observation is that carb ice takes a really humid day or flying through visable moisture (a cloud) and it takes some time for the ice to build up at low power cruise.  Here in Florida we are known for humidity and clouds.  I seldom use carb heat.  The way I use it now is after a long slow flight with the carb at or near freezing I get within glide distance of an airport and before reducing power I pull the carb heat.  After the carb is up to 40 or more degrees F the carb heat gets returned to off and I throttle back for landing.  

I'd encourage everyone running a carb to get a carb throttle plate temp sensor.  It's eye opening.  The MA3SPA carb has a pre drilled hole ready to install a sensor.

Mike



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 4:46 AM Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.


On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,

You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r

Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 


Bill

Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.

Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500



--
--

--

--

--

--


Re: Your Opinion

Mike Dwyer
 


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:24 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Mike.. what temp gauge are you using.. do you remember the supplier? My O-200 Cessna did not have a carb temp gauge but 
 to me that was one instrument it should have had added. I will be adding to both my Experimentals. 

 Had carb ice in my 1962 150 once. I made a habit of pulling the heat on every 5 or so minutes in cruise after then. Not a serious
problem but it did get my attention VFR over Eastern Oklahoma between cloud!      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 7:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
 
I have a carb temp gauge and have observed the temp at different conditions.

At idle the carb runs quite hot.  Probably from engine hearing and no airflow around it.  

At full power, same thing.  More engine heat and more airflow.

At low power cruise it gets quite cold in the carb, 40F to 50F lower than the ambient air.

Strangely at no power glide the carb actually gets warmer.  Probably the fuel flow is way down and not cooling the carb.

So my observation is that carb ice takes a really humid day or flying through visable moisture (a cloud) and it takes some time for the ice to build up at low power cruise.  Here in Florida we are known for humidity and clouds.  I seldom use carb heat.  The way I use it now is after a long slow flight with the carb at or near freezing I get within glide distance of an airport and before reducing power I pull the carb heat.  After the carb is up to 40 or more degrees F the carb heat gets returned to off and I throttle back for landing.  

I'd encourage everyone running a carb to get a carb throttle plate temp sensor.  It's eye opening.  The MA3SPA carb has a pre drilled hole ready to install a sensor.

Mike



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 4:46 AM Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Did you note how long he stayed on the taxiway before departing......

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 02:48, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
Naah.  Wasn't carb ice.  Doesn't form at full power and doesn't form that fast.  
Mike 


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 16:58 Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:
Bad Carb heat again; 

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 19:32, Bill Allen via groups.io <billallensworld=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Uh-oh! If it’s a Certified engine in a certified airframe, it should be able to idle with carb heat without stopping. That’s just bad maintenance. 
A Lycoming with the Marvel Schebler carb is straightforward to set up - 1930’s tech. :^)

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:06, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

It wasn't on my 0200, it was a club Cherokee with a Lycoming, but it taught me a lesson that sticks in the mind for the future reference. :-Br

Br

RichT

On 04/01/2021 10:47, Bill Allen wrote:
Hi Rich - what engine do you have?  If it rich-cuts at idle, it should be possible to alter the setup so that it doesn’t....

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 11:35, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

 Thanks Bill, that is some interesting information to consider.

    The reason I select carb heat cold on late final is not damage to the engine but Rich Cut, and even then that is not a problem if you are landing, but on T&G's and on short fields can be a decider if you end up in the hedge ( or at Henstridge in the fence or girders), so I my norm is Carb Heat Cold on late final and a gentle cycle of the throttle to check its still there.

    Br

    RichT.


On 04/01/2021 08:13, Bill Allen wrote:

Hi Kieth,

You wrote: <<  I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist. >>r

Joel Ventura did quite a detailed article on Prist etc here: 


Bill

Note: Prist wont stop carb ice, which comes out of the atmosphere. Prist deals with water already in suspension within the fuel. 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 03:58, Keith Welsh <klw544@...> wrote:
Hi again,
All your comments, experiences and knowledge no doubt turned out to be a real education.  I don’t know about y’all but icing is normally not a discussion item.  I’m glad I took the chance to post the article.  Learned more than I thought I would.  And thank you all for “Your Opinions”
 
I must admit I was hoping for some info regarding the use of Prist.  I did actually use it in the Quickie for a time.  Reckon it did ok..that was several years ago.  My Q does not have carb heat nor does the carb have access to outside air, only hot air off the engine and is why the interest in the Teflon coating.  The carb on the newer Onan sets higher so to accommodate a new heat box I would need to make a new cowl bump....like that was gonna happen!  Not surprised no one had much to say about it.  
 
Like Jay I’m sure ice will form Teflon or not but I’ve never used a Teflon coated anything that anything would stick to it.  I once froze water in both a steel pan and a Teflon one.  Guess which one the ice slid out of.  The steel pan had ice remnants sticking to it after most was chipped out.  Yeah, pretty unscientific but....  Think about your plastic ice server bucket when guest come over, the ice sticks to everything even fingers.  At least modern technology has provided us with some options.

Thanks again,
Keith

Please note: message attached

From: "Mike Dwyer " <q200pilot@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Your Opinion
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 17:00:40 -0500



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