Date   

Re: Fuel filler plumbing

Chris Walterson
 

Jay------------  Yuup---  I followed the plans when doing the install. the only deviation is the fuel filler on the side f the fuselage.

  Although my fuel pump is switched, I will leave it on all the time. My other airplane is like that and then you don't need to worry about fuel management all the time. I also have a small shutoff valve at the bottom  feed line for the site gauge. If there is ever a problem it is easier to change than having to drain all the fuel. Still having fun--------------  Chris


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Re: Throttle RPM Oddity

Corbin
 

Very helpful information and greatly appreciated.  I will be back out there in the next day or two.  

Thanks again.
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Throttle RPM Oddity

Shaun Milke
 

That video pretty much rules out a throttle plate issue, MAP looks as expected with throttle travel. The engine sounds like it’s running fairly well other some hesitation on acceleration at low rpm.  The idling doesn’t sound rough, which would otherwise be an indication of an intake leak or MAP line issue. However, that should become a less significant factor as overall intake airflow increases at higher rpm anyway. Failure to make full rpm despite otherwise fairly nominal operation would usually indicate an ignition system issue (most likely strength of spark and not timing).  I know very little about the Lightspeed system, but have a look at the other components of your ignition system- spark plug cleanliness/gap/resistance, ignition lead arcing/looseness/corrosion.

Hope that gets you going in the right direction,
-Shaun



From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 12:23:32 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Throttle RPM Oddity
 
Thanks, Shaun.  I have the Airflow Performance injection system.  I don't believe the throttle plate is loose but will add that to my list to check.  The only MAP reading I have handy is the full-throttle static test I did after that flight.  In this video, I slowly push in the throttle and then slowly bring it back.  If anyone sees anything by watching this MAP/RPM video please let me know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbQC6_0kqe8
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Throttle RPM Oddity

Corbin
 

Thanks, Shaun.  I have the Airflow Performance injection system.  I don't believe the throttle plate is loose but will add that to my list to check.  The only MAP reading I have handy is the full-throttle static test I did after that flight.  In this video, I slowly push in the throttle and then slowly bring it back.  If anyone sees anything by watching this MAP/RPM video please let me know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbQC6_0kqe8
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Throttle RPM Oddity

Shaun Milke
 

Not sure what injection system you have or how your induction is set up, but is it possible that your throttle plate has become loose or unclocked? Not making full rpm at full throttle travel is certainly a problem, but it seems odd that you are getting near red line rpm at only half throttle as well. A look at he mechanism itself could rule this out and noting the MAP, if available, at various rpm’s during a static full throttle check would be telling. Any recollection if the engine was running “normally” at the various rpms points you mentioned even if the rpm isn’t what you would expect at that throttle setting? ie- fuel flow, MAP, egt’s where you would expect them, no roughness or backfiring, etc? 

-Shaun



From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 1:21:21 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Throttle RPM Oddity
 
Thanks guys.  I will double-check the manifold pressure lines.  The ignition install had us "T" off the line for the Plasma boxes so it is possible something came loose.

Corbin

On March 16, 2021 at 10:10 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Are your manifold pressure lines correctly installed?
Jim

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 8:05:29 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Throttle RPM Oddity
 
Hi Corbin,

Is there a chance that your manifold pressure gauge is starting to crater and this is is influencing both spark advance and fuel injection? Just an uneducated question from a poorly informed person, but seems possible.

Cheers,
Jay



On Mar 16, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Me again.  Haven't flown in months due to the Lightspeed ignition install, weather, you name it.  Departed my home airport today and flew over to my new hangar.  Upon takeoff, RPM at full throttle was 2100.  Hmm....didn't really notice that at the time because the plane was light on its feet and wanted to fly.  I noticed when the climb rate was poor 300-400 ft instead of 1,000ft+.  I turned crosswind and in the upwind I decided to pull throttle back and sure enough HALFWAY back, the RPM jumps up to 2650 and then starts hauling ass like these Quickies do.

The throttle hits both stops (idle and full) and static RPM on the ground after the flight was 2150rpm.  When I slowly advance to full throttle, on the ground, it smoothly goes up to the 2150rpm.  There is no "jump" at mid-throttle.  Could it have done that on takeoff because the plane needed to fly and work out gunk from not flying for 4-5 months?  What else could it be? 

Fuel-injected O-200 with electronic ignition.  Any ideas of what to check or what it could have been?  It is good to be based out of DTO in the new to me hangar!

New tail number and new hangar.  I will update our database contact file.

Corbin
--

Corbin 
N121CG

--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Throttle RPM Oddity

Corbin
 

Thanks guys.  I will double-check the manifold pressure lines.  The ignition install had us "T" off the line for the Plasma boxes so it is possible something came loose.

Corbin

On March 16, 2021 at 10:10 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

Are your manifold pressure lines correctly installed?
Jim

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 8:05:29 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Throttle RPM Oddity
 
Hi Corbin,

Is there a chance that your manifold pressure gauge is starting to crater and this is is influencing both spark advance and fuel injection? Just an uneducated question from a poorly informed person, but seems possible.

Cheers,
Jay



On Mar 16, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Me again.  Haven't flown in months due to the Lightspeed ignition install, weather, you name it.  Departed my home airport today and flew over to my new hangar.  Upon takeoff, RPM at full throttle was 2100.  Hmm....didn't really notice that at the time because the plane was light on its feet and wanted to fly.  I noticed when the climb rate was poor 300-400 ft instead of 1,000ft+.  I turned crosswind and in the upwind I decided to pull throttle back and sure enough HALFWAY back, the RPM jumps up to 2650 and then starts hauling ass like these Quickies do.

The throttle hits both stops (idle and full) and static RPM on the ground after the flight was 2150rpm.  When I slowly advance to full throttle, on the ground, it smoothly goes up to the 2150rpm.  There is no "jump" at mid-throttle.  Could it have done that on takeoff because the plane needed to fly and work out gunk from not flying for 4-5 months?  What else could it be? 

Fuel-injected O-200 with electronic ignition.  Any ideas of what to check or what it could have been?  It is good to be based out of DTO in the new to me hangar!

New tail number and new hangar.  I will update our database contact file.

Corbin
--

Corbin 
N121CG

--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Non-vented Fuel Cap Replacement

britmcman99
 

I think I used something more like this as the thread form seemed to match up. It is a vented cap that I plugged and worked fine. 




On Mar 15, 2021, at 3:05 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Corbin, 

The bottle cap is a shitty design. Besides the cap cracking, the threads can also crack. With a carbureted engine, when that happens it introduces low pressure into your header tank and winds up having an engine that doesn't want to run too well and it first starts acting up at about three or four hundred feet after takeoff. Then you have to Mayday and see if you can limp around the pattern. If you're lucky you will have a passenger along who will later praise your excellent skills and nerves of steel. 

I don't know what happens with a fuel injection engine but if it was me, I wouldn't want to investigate too far. There are a lot of different ways the guys have done fuel caps, not just the one that I use, but mine is pretty simple and you can get parts at any hardware store. There are more elegant methods out there, such as with the Vai-Ez guys may use.

Take care.

Sam 

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 2:17 PM Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
I haven't made Sam's modification using the PVC fitting yet so I am curious if anyone knows the source of this fuel cap that I have.  My A&P found a crack in it during my conditional this week (ready to fly now).
<IMG_5968.jpeg>
<IMG_5969.jpeg>

--

Corbin 
N33QR


Re: Throttle RPM Oddity

Jim Patillo
 

Are your manifold pressure lines correctly installed?
Jim

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 8:05:29 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Throttle RPM Oddity
 
Hi Corbin,

Is there a chance that your manifold pressure gauge is starting to crater and this is is influencing both spark advance and fuel injection? Just an uneducated question from a poorly informed person, but seems possible.

Cheers,
Jay


On Mar 16, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Me again.  Haven't flown in months due to the Lightspeed ignition install, weather, you name it.  Departed my home airport today and flew over to my new hangar.  Upon takeoff, RPM at full throttle was 2100.  Hmm....didn't really notice that at the time because the plane was light on its feet and wanted to fly.  I noticed when the climb rate was poor 300-400 ft instead of 1,000ft+.  I turned crosswind and in the upwind I decided to pull throttle back and sure enough HALFWAY back, the RPM jumps up to 2650 and then starts hauling ass like these Quickies do.

The throttle hits both stops (idle and full) and static RPM on the ground after the flight was 2150rpm.  When I slowly advance to full throttle, on the ground, it smoothly goes up to the 2150rpm.  There is no "jump" at mid-throttle.  Could it have done that on takeoff because the plane needed to fly and work out gunk from not flying for 4-5 months?  What else could it be? 

Fuel-injected O-200 with electronic ignition.  Any ideas of what to check or what it could have been?  It is good to be based out of DTO in the new to me hangar!

New tail number and new hangar.  I will update our database contact file.

Corbin
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Fuel filler plumbing

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Chris,

What you have done is what the original plans call for, so should be good.

Cheers,
Jay

On Mar 16, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Dorothea Keats <dkeats@tbaytel.net> wrote:

 Here is what I did. The filler is in the side of the fuselage ,just below the Naca. Goes directly into the main tank and is hidden by the side consol. The header is vented by a tube that goes between the center canard phenolic and comes out the center of the fuselage and is pointed forward. Because the header is vented , it vents the main tank through the overflow. Take care---------- Chris



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<P1050010.JPG>


Re: Throttle RPM Oddity

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Corbin,

Is there a chance that your manifold pressure gauge is starting to crater and this is is influencing both spark advance and fuel injection? Just an uneducated question from a poorly informed person, but seems possible.

Cheers,
Jay


On Mar 16, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Me again.  Haven't flown in months due to the Lightspeed ignition install, weather, you name it.  Departed my home airport today and flew over to my new hangar.  Upon takeoff, RPM at full throttle was 2100.  Hmm....didn't really notice that at the time because the plane was light on its feet and wanted to fly.  I noticed when the climb rate was poor 300-400 ft instead of 1,000ft+.  I turned crosswind and in the upwind I decided to pull throttle back and sure enough HALFWAY back, the RPM jumps up to 2650 and then starts hauling ass like these Quickies do.

The throttle hits both stops (idle and full) and static RPM on the ground after the flight was 2150rpm.  When I slowly advance to full throttle, on the ground, it smoothly goes up to the 2150rpm.  There is no "jump" at mid-throttle.  Could it have done that on takeoff because the plane needed to fly and work out gunk from not flying for 4-5 months?  What else could it be? 

Fuel-injected O-200 with electronic ignition.  Any ideas of what to check or what it could have been?  It is good to be based out of DTO in the new to me hangar!

New tail number and new hangar.  I will update our database contact file.

Corbin
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Fuel filler plumbing

Chris Walterson
 

Here is what I did. The filler is in the side of the fuselage ,just below the Naca. Goes directly into the main tank and is hidden by the side consol.  The header is vented by a tube that goes between the center canard phenolic and comes out the center of the fuselage and is pointed forward.  Because the header is vented , it vents the main tank through the overflow.   Take care---------- Chris



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https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Throttle RPM Oddity

Corbin
 

Me again.  Haven't flown in months due to the Lightspeed ignition install, weather, you name it.  Departed my home airport today and flew over to my new hangar.  Upon takeoff, RPM at full throttle was 2100.  Hmm....didn't really notice that at the time because the plane was light on its feet and wanted to fly.  I noticed when the climb rate was poor 300-400 ft instead of 1,000ft+.  I turned crosswind and in the upwind I decided to pull throttle back and sure enough HALFWAY back, the RPM jumps up to 2650 and then starts hauling ass like these Quickies do.

The throttle hits both stops (idle and full) and static RPM on the ground after the flight was 2150rpm.  When I slowly advance to full throttle, on the ground, it smoothly goes up to the 2150rpm.  There is no "jump" at mid-throttle.  Could it have done that on takeoff because the plane needed to fly and work out gunk from not flying for 4-5 months?  What else could it be? 

Fuel-injected O-200 with electronic ignition.  Any ideas of what to check or what it could have been?  It is good to be based out of DTO in the new to me hangar!

New tail number and new hangar.  I will update our database contact file.

Corbin
--

Corbin 
N121CG


Re: Non-vented Fuel Cap Replacement

Jay Scheevel
 

The low pressure on cowl is solely due to the sharp corner they have on the cowl. The air is forced perpendicular to the flight direction, then has to correct back rapidly and makes a low pressure “bubble” there. That is very draggy, so smoothing that out like Sam Hoskins has done on his cowl is a smart and easy way to cut drag.

 

By the way, I put my fresh air intake on the leading edge of the canard right at the wing root. I stole this idea from the Piper Cherokee 235 that I used to fly. This is a very high pressure location, so I thought why not use it to supply air to the cabin? Works great. Picture below:

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Steinsland
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 4:29 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Non-vented Fuel Cap Replacement

 

That's a way cool visual that has confirmed a suspicion I had about where the original builder placed the NACA ducts for cabin air.......about the center side of the canopy opening  just below the longeron in the orange between the reds. Just looking at it without this picture I was thinking they might not be very effective in that location.  This pretty much confirms it will be iffy.

 

Interesting the low pressure at the front of the cowl, I wonder if that is just at the curve or if it goes across the front?

 

 

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:02 PM Jay Scheevel, <jay@...> wrote:

Here is the pressure distribution on the Q2 when flying level at zero AOA (from a CFD model done many years ago). The low pressure area (red to magenta) on the fuselage-side expands upward and increases in size and intensity when flying at higher AOA’s. Most of the belly on the bottom of the fuse and just in front of the center of the windscreen on the top of the fuse remain high pressure areas (green and blue) during in all phases of flight, so those are the “safe” areas to put your ram air vent. Both of these locations have been used on Q2’s that have long flying history. In addition putting the ram air on the bottom of the inboard wing like Mike D did works fine, as long as it is not near the leading edge.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Cyr
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:49 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Non-vented Fuel Cap Replacement

 

The fuel filler is located in a low-pressure area, so you don't want any significant opening there.  There was a suggestion to have a pin hole in the cap, but I never added that because of our similar power-loss experience.  Early on, a line boy insisted on pumping the fuel and when he finished, he put the filler cap on cross thread.  My building partner then tried to go flying.  As he approached take-off speed, the engine faltered the same way Mike Dwyer described, so he aborted the take-off, stopped hard and stood the Q2 on its nose.  The "pin hole" idea may be OK as long as the ram air volume coming into the header tank is sufficient to overcome the loss of air volume going out the hole in the cap caused by the low-pressure in the fuel filler area.  I assume the low pressure is the result of the wing lift phenomenon on the top side of an airfoil.


Re: Fuel filler plumbing

Mike Steinsland
 

Thanks Sam, that's an awful lot like my setup except mine is flush fit to the fuselage.

I cant believe how much knowledge is in this group and the willingness to share it.

Thanks guys!

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:20 PM Sam Hoskins, <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:
Here is the way I did it. Credit goes to Jim Doyle


On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 4:25 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Here is the set up that I plagiarized from Sammy Hoskins.  It has worked great for years for Sammy and I.  We cut off the threads of the old filler neck.  Then went to the hardware store and picked up the plumbing for a sink drain.  It is all metal.  Then cut off the threaded drain about 2 1-2 inches down.  Clean the outside of the metal and then scratch it up with 40 grit so it’s rough.  Put some wadded up newspaper down in the filler neck with string so you can pull it out.  Then inside of the filler neck clean extra well and scratch the surface so epoxie and flox will bond.   
Mix some epoxie and whet out the filler neck and the outside scratched up surface of the plumbing drain pipe.  You should have checked to see how far down into the filler neck the plumbing pipe will go before this.
When you are securing the plumbing pipe into the filler neck you can put some more wadded up newspaper in the hole so the flox and epoxie won’t run down the outside of the pipe into the filler neck and fuel neck tank.
Fill the cavity with flox and epoxie inside the filler neck and outside the pipe.  Let it cure.  Be sure your cover over the large nut can close before you start to epoxie.

After that you will need to cut out a round aluminum piece to fit inside the large cap/nut and find some J B Weld or something fuel compatible to secure it in place.  You don’t want to leave it loose in the nut as when you least expect it the turkey will depart with the wind and the chase will be on.

For the inside of the cap you will need a round cut to shape piece of fuel compatible gasket rubber material and clean and scratch to top side up so the fuel compatible glue will bond and stay bonded.  You want it to seal very well so you don’t lose any fuel tank pressure.  Our fuel head pressure is pretty short so nothing but ram air getting into and out of the tank.

Clear as mud?

Bruce Crain
N96BJ

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Re: Fuel filler plumbing

Paul Fisher
 

I used one of these: 
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/bayonetfuelcaps.php

I floxed the receiver to a PVC pipe.  I've never had a problem with it, but both the gasket and the fuel cap are replaceable if that's ever necessary.

I installed this during the original construction, so it's been working well for over 30 years.

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF


On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 17:20 Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:
Here is the way I did it. Credit goes to Jim Doyle


On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 4:25 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Here is the set up that I plagiarized from Sammy Hoskins.  It has worked great for years for Sammy and I.  We cut off the threads of the old filler neck.  Then went to the hardware store and picked up the plumbing for a sink drain.  It is all metal.  Then cut off the threaded drain about 2 1-2 inches down.  Clean the outside of the metal and then scratch it up with 40 grit so it’s rough.  Put some wadded up newspaper down in the filler neck with string so you can pull it out.  Then inside of the filler neck clean extra well and scratch the surface so epoxie and flox will bond.   
Mix some epoxie and whet out the filler neck and the outside scratched up surface of the plumbing drain pipe.  You should have checked to see how far down into the filler neck the plumbing pipe will go before this.
When you are securing the plumbing pipe into the filler neck you can put some more wadded up newspaper in the hole so the flox and epoxie won’t run down the outside of the pipe into the filler neck and fuel neck tank.
Fill the cavity with flox and epoxie inside the filler neck and outside the pipe.  Let it cure.  Be sure your cover over the large nut can close before you start to epoxie.

After that you will need to cut out a round aluminum piece to fit inside the large cap/nut and find some J B Weld or something fuel compatible to secure it in place.  You don’t want to leave it loose in the nut as when you least expect it the turkey will depart with the wind and the chase will be on.

For the inside of the cap you will need a round cut to shape piece of fuel compatible gasket rubber material and clean and scratch to top side up so the fuel compatible glue will bond and stay bonded.  You want it to seal very well so you don’t lose any fuel tank pressure.  Our fuel head pressure is pretty short so nothing but ram air getting into and out of the tank.

Clear as mud?

Bruce Crain
N96BJ

____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

Intelligence Report Says 2 Countries Tried to Sway 2020 Election
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60512233792a2223143b8st03vuc1
McConnell: If Filibuster Goes, Expect 'Scorched-Earth Senate'
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605122339d438223143b8st03vuc2
Senator: FBI's Kavanaugh Investigation Was a Joke
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/60512233c28cd223143b8st03vuc3






Re: Non-vented Fuel Cap Replacement

Mike Steinsland
 

That's a way cool visual that has confirmed a suspicion I had about where the original builder placed the NACA ducts for cabin air.......about the center side of the canopy opening  just below the longeron in the orange between the reds. Just looking at it without this picture I was thinking they might not be very effective in that location.  This pretty much confirms it will be iffy.

Interesting the low pressure at the front of the cowl, I wonder if that is just at the curve or if it goes across the front?
 


On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:02 PM Jay Scheevel, <jay@...> wrote:

Here is the pressure distribution on the Q2 when flying level at zero AOA (from a CFD model done many years ago). The low pressure area (red to magenta) on the fuselage-side expands upward and increases in size and intensity when flying at higher AOA’s. Most of the belly on the bottom of the fuse and just in front of the center of the windscreen on the top of the fuse remain high pressure areas (green and blue) during in all phases of flight, so those are the “safe” areas to put your ram air vent. Both of these locations have been used on Q2’s that have long flying history. In addition putting the ram air on the bottom of the inboard wing like Mike D did works fine, as long as it is not near the leading edge.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Cyr
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:49 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Non-vented Fuel Cap Replacement

 

The fuel filler is located in a low-pressure area, so you don't want any significant opening there.  There was a suggestion to have a pin hole in the cap, but I never added that because of our similar power-loss experience.  Early on, a line boy insisted on pumping the fuel and when he finished, he put the filler cap on cross thread.  My building partner then tried to go flying.  As he approached take-off speed, the engine faltered the same way Mike Dwyer described, so he aborted the take-off, stopped hard and stood the Q2 on its nose.  The "pin hole" idea may be OK as long as the ram air volume coming into the header tank is sufficient to overcome the loss of air volume going out the hole in the cap caused by the low-pressure in the fuel filler area.  I assume the low pressure is the result of the wing lift phenomenon on the top side of an airfoil.


Re: Fuel filler plumbing

Sam Hoskins
 

Here is the way I did it. Credit goes to Jim Doyle


On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 4:25 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Here is the set up that I plagiarized from Sammy Hoskins.  It has worked great for years for Sammy and I.  We cut off the threads of the old filler neck.  Then went to the hardware store and picked up the plumbing for a sink drain.  It is all metal.  Then cut off the threaded drain about 2 1-2 inches down.  Clean the outside of the metal and then scratch it up with 40 grit so it’s rough.  Put some wadded up newspaper down in the filler neck with string so you can pull it out.  Then inside of the filler neck clean extra well and scratch the surface so epoxie and flox will bond.   
Mix some epoxie and whet out the filler neck and the outside scratched up surface of the plumbing drain pipe.  You should have checked to see how far down into the filler neck the plumbing pipe will go before this.
When you are securing the plumbing pipe into the filler neck you can put some more wadded up newspaper in the hole so the flox and epoxie won’t run down the outside of the pipe into the filler neck and fuel neck tank.
Fill the cavity with flox and epoxie inside the filler neck and outside the pipe.  Let it cure.  Be sure your cover over the large nut can close before you start to epoxie.

After that you will need to cut out a round aluminum piece to fit inside the large cap/nut and find some J B Weld or something fuel compatible to secure it in place.  You don’t want to leave it loose in the nut as when you least expect it the turkey will depart with the wind and the chase will be on.

For the inside of the cap you will need a round cut to shape piece of fuel compatible gasket rubber material and clean and scratch to top side up so the fuel compatible glue will bond and stay bonded.  You want it to seal very well so you don’t lose any fuel tank pressure.  Our fuel head pressure is pretty short so nothing but ram air getting into and out of the tank.

Clear as mud?

Bruce Crain
N96BJ

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Fuel filler plumbing

Bruce Crain
 

Here is the set up that I plagiarized from Sammy Hoskins. It has worked great for years for Sammy and I. We cut off the threads of the old filler neck. Then went to the hardware store and picked up the plumbing for a sink drain. It is all metal. Then cut off the threaded drain about 2 1-2 inches down. Clean the outside of the metal and then scratch it up with 40 grit so it’s rough. Put some wadded up newspaper down in the filler neck with string so you can pull it out. Then inside of the filler neck clean extra well and scratch the surface so epoxie and flox will bond.
Mix some epoxie and whet out the filler neck and the outside scratched up surface of the plumbing drain pipe. You should have checked to see how far down into the filler neck the plumbing pipe will go before this.
When you are securing the plumbing pipe into the filler neck you can put some more wadded up newspaper in the hole so the flox and epoxie won’t run down the outside of the pipe into the filler neck and fuel neck tank.
Fill the cavity with flox and epoxie inside the filler neck and outside the pipe. Let it cure. Be sure your cover over the large nut can close before you start to epoxie.

After that you will need to cut out a round aluminum piece to fit inside the large cap/nut and find some J B Weld or something fuel compatible to secure it in place. You don’t want to leave it loose in the nut as when you least expect it the turkey will depart with the wind and the chase will be on.

For the inside of the cap you will need a round cut to shape piece of fuel compatible gasket rubber material and clean and scratch to top side up so the fuel compatible glue will bond and stay bonded. You want it to seal very well so you don’t lose any fuel tank pressure. Our fuel head pressure is pretty short so nothing but ram air getting into and out of the tank.

Clear as mud?

Bruce Crain
N96BJ

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Re: Non-vented Fuel Cap Replacement

Jay Scheevel
 

Here is the pressure distribution on the Q2 when flying level at zero AOA (from a CFD model done many years ago). The low pressure area (red to magenta) on the fuselage-side expands upward and increases in size and intensity when flying at higher AOA’s. Most of the belly on the bottom of the fuse and just in front of the center of the windscreen on the top of the fuse remain high pressure areas (green and blue) during in all phases of flight, so those are the “safe” areas to put your ram air vent. Both of these locations have been used on Q2’s that have long flying history. In addition putting the ram air on the bottom of the inboard wing like Mike D did works fine, as long as it is not near the leading edge.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Cyr
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:49 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Non-vented Fuel Cap Replacement

 

The fuel filler is located in a low-pressure area, so you don't want any significant opening there.  There was a suggestion to have a pin hole in the cap, but I never added that because of our similar power-loss experience.  Early on, a line boy insisted on pumping the fuel and when he finished, he put the filler cap on cross thread.  My building partner then tried to go flying.  As he approached take-off speed, the engine faltered the same way Mike Dwyer described, so he aborted the take-off, stopped hard and stood the Q2 on its nose.  The "pin hole" idea may be OK as long as the ram air volume coming into the header tank is sufficient to overcome the loss of air volume going out the hole in the cap caused by the low-pressure in the fuel filler area.  I assume the low pressure is the result of the wing lift phenomenon on the top side of an airfoil.


Re: Non-vented Fuel Cap Replacement

David Cyr
 

The fuel filler is located in a low-pressure area, so you don't want any significant opening there.  There was a suggestion to have a pin hole in the cap, but I never added that because of our similar power-loss experience.  Early on, a line boy insisted on pumping the fuel and when he finished, he put the filler cap on cross thread.  My building partner then tried to go flying.  As he approached take-off speed, the engine faltered the same way Mike Dwyer described, so he aborted the take-off, stopped hard and stood the Q2 on its nose.  The "pin hole" idea may be OK as long as the ram air volume coming into the header tank is sufficient to overcome the loss of air volume going out the hole in the cap caused by the low-pressure in the fuel filler area.  I assume the low pressure is the result of the wing lift phenomenon on the top side of an airfoil.

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