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Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Frankenbird Vern
 

 Lot of good design and methods comes from the racing world. I look forward to what Jerry offers. I am grateful for your efforts and on another Blog dealing with aviation I suggest recording the build on thumb drive for the DAR and more especially a record for ones own memory support. Upload and store video is a boost to the Airworthiness sign off and later builders as myself. Also good was advising on overseas sign off. The Commonwealth Nations are particularly difficult. Delt with that a few times in my aircraft factory life, so I don't envy builders of Experimental in those parts of the world.

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 

Hi Vern,

 

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

https://youtu.be/0Ct7ZWoG3yE

https://youtu.be/MzFPIyD-_f0

 

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

 

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

 

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

 

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

 

Vern        

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron
Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Richard Thomson
 

    There is a system that our UK LAA run for Mods which provided it is justified and to the rules can get approved. Most of those are structural / engine mods you guys have already tried and tested.

    Avionics is somewhat easier.

    Your build documents are amazing Jay, nearly all the TriQ info in one place.

    Br

    Rich T.

On 22/03/2021 21:13, Jay Scheevel wrote:

One other thought. I know that the folks in the UK are pretty limited as to what mods they can legally make to the original plans/kit. May be the same in ZA.  Make sure that you do not make your plane un-licensable.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:08 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Stephen,  Just as a heads up. Many on this group recommend AGAINST most mods. I actually agree with that, since all of mine were primarily for my own preferences, added weight and added a LOT of extra build time.

 

So I would caution you to be judicious with your desires to modify things, even if you are copying some of my mods.

 

Best advice. If you are thinking of making a mod. Please bounce it off of this group first to see what kind of consensus you find before you launch into the effort.  

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Jay

 

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements. 

 

Thank you very much. 

Regards

 

Stephen Theron 

+2784 699 1684

Johannesburg 

South Africa

 

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

 

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

 

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.










Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Bruce Crain
 

Jay you’ve gotta get that bird judged at Oshkosh!  You could put Quickies back on the map!
Bruce


On Mar 22, 2021, at 3:57 PM, Stephen Theron <steviet888@...> wrote:

Hi Jay

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements. 

Thank you very much. 

Regards

Stephen Theron 
+2784 699 1684
Johannesburg 
South Africa

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

 

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

 

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.












Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Richard Thomson
 

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.



On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 



On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron
Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Great forethought. Hope to see you at the Fling.

-------- Original message --------
From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Date: 3/22/21 4:26 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

 

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

 

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.










Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay Scheevel
 

One other thought. I know that the folks in the UK are pretty limited as to what mods they can legally make to the original plans/kit. May be the same in ZA.  Make sure that you do not make your plane un-licensable.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:08 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Stephen,  Just as a heads up. Many on this group recommend AGAINST most mods. I actually agree with that, since all of mine were primarily for my own preferences, added weight and added a LOT of extra build time.

 

So I would caution you to be judicious with your desires to modify things, even if you are copying some of my mods.

 

Best advice. If you are thinking of making a mod. Please bounce it off of this group first to see what kind of consensus you find before you launch into the effort.  

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Jay

 

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements. 

 

Thank you very much. 

Regards

 

Stephen Theron 

+2784 699 1684

Johannesburg 

South Africa

 

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

 

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

 

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.










Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay Scheevel
 

Stephen,  Just as a heads up. Many on this group recommend AGAINST most mods. I actually agree with that, since all of mine were primarily for my own preferences, added weight and added a LOT of extra build time.

 

So I would caution you to be judicious with your desires to modify things, even if you are copying some of my mods.

 

Best advice. If you are thinking of making a mod. Please bounce it off of this group first to see what kind of consensus you find before you launch into the effort.  

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Jay

 

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements. 

 

Thank you very much. 

Regards

 

Stephen Theron 

+2784 699 1684

Johannesburg 

South Africa



On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

 

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

 

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.











Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Stephen Theron
 

Hi Jay

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements. 

Thank you very much. 

Regards

Stephen Theron 
+2784 699 1684
Johannesburg 
South Africa

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

 

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

 

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.










Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

 

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

 

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

 

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.










Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Vern,

 

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

https://youtu.be/0Ct7ZWoG3yE

https://youtu.be/MzFPIyD-_f0

 

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

 

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

 

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

 

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

 

Vern        

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron
Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.
J

-------- Original message --------
From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.











Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Frankenbird Vern
 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.
 
My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

Vern        

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 



On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron
Jim Patilo Q200

Bruce Crain
 

Hey I just got back from a wedding and also a trip to Branson and want to tell Jim Pattilo that he did a great job on the Quickie Zoom presentation.  I have heard folks say that the Quickie is not a great IFR platform but you seem to have put that to rest!  Glad you are flying an enjoying the Q200 soo much!  It is just beautiful!
Thanks for sharing with us!
Bruce Crain
Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Jay Scheevel
 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 



On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron
Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.
Re: Header tank pressure line

Frankenbird Vern
 

7 hrs at least depending on traffic and not nearly as interesting. That part of the Missouri is nice tho..

 I've wondered at times if the ADSB out signal is turned off over the States on these types of military aircraft? It is better
they know where WE are 😉. 

 Yer funny Mike.. maybe Japan will try a shot at attacking Missouri this time rather than a small island in the Pacific? 

 Hope to see you guys at Enid. We'll try and brew up some tailwinds for everyone!!  Gggg..

Vern  

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:20 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Header tank pressure line
 
Glad all went well Sammy!  You gotta’ nice fast Q!  Probably would have been a 7 hr trip on the ground?
Bruce


On Mar 21, 2021, at 7:14 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 The G280 NACA on the lower outboard wing surfaces add about 4lbs of pressure to the wing tanks at max cruise (which is much greater speed than any Q will see). G280 NACA is about 1 inch deep from the lower wing skin surface. They are also the wing vents when fuel is pumped in. I will be adding this feature to my fuel system. 

 The wings were tested at that amount (except once when the gauges were changed out and the tech didn't realize until too late that he went well over 4,, more like 40lbs!.. Wing became instantly bloated like a week long drowned cow and went BOOM!...  Disposition: Scrap; repair not economically feasible, Ouch..there went a few million down the drain).

 Jay is 100% correct. The bugs making nests become a concern..at least in these parts they are. Mud daubers. 

 Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 5:31 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Header tank pressure line
 

I think I remember seeing this proposed in the past, but I have not seen it in any of the planes I have seen flying. One thing to consider: The reason a NACA duct works is because it causes the flow near the skin to de-pressurize slightly, so it changes direction and into the duct.  On the other hand, you want maximum ram air pressure to the tank, so you need to extend the ram tube far enough away from the surface of the fuselage to get full velocity airflow. This is why the header ram air tube and also the pitot tube have stand-offs from the fuselage and/or wing surface. Suggest you keep that design. It is not much drag and it has valuable benefit to fuel flow.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nick Wright
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 4:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Header tank pressure line

 

Hello all,

 

     I saw (forget what website) the header tank pressure line was ran through the NACA opening on the side of a Q200. Does anyone have any we experience with this? Is the airflow adequate in this location?

 

Many thanks,

Nick Wright

N350JD

 

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 5:35 PM Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:

Good flight report Sam.  I'm surprised the B2 hangars are all in a nice straight line.  Is to make it easy to bomb them all in one pass?

Time to get back to flying!


Mike Dwyer

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 5:16 PM Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:

After a crazy cold winter it was about time to get in the air again. So I made a day-trip from Carbondale, IL, KMDH to Topeka Billard, KTOP. A gorgeous day, for the 355 mile trip. A nice little tailwind made me scoot along so I made the trip in just two hours. Groundspeed was usually around 180+ kts. I had a great visit with my daughter, grand and great grand kids, then it was back to the airport, all too soon. 

One interesting thing about the route of flight, it takes me directly over Whiteman AFB, the primary base for B-2 bombers. Whiteman is kind of in the middle of Missouri. According to the sectional, the top of their controlled airspace is just 3,400 feet, so going west I was at 4,500 feet and east was 5,500 feet. On one trip I saw a couple of B-2s on the ramp, a few F-16s and some helicopters, but today it was completely empty. It always make me wonder who's watching as I fly over at such a low altitude.   In the photo, you can see the row of the 14 or so B-2 hangars. I try to not make any deviations as I pass over.

The winds on departure at KTOP were around 20 kts, but the takeoff was just fine. Of course with every tailwind there is a corresponding headwind.  Fortunately, the winds aloft had shifted more out of the south and it wasn't too bad, I was still able to make a little better than 150 kts groundspeed and I got back in less than two and a half hours.  There was barely any wind at Carbondale, which I hate. 
I'm not very current and if the guy in the tower was watching, he might have been amused by the number of bounces I made. 

Great trip and it was nice to be back the same day, in time for a couple of cocktails with Sandy.

Sam Hoskins
Q-200

<image001.jpg>


<image002.jpg>
Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Frankenbird Vern
 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 
  
 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.
 
 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 Vern 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 
Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,
Jay


On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

Vern       










Ron
Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Stephen Theron
 

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.
Re: Header tank pressure line

Sam Hoskins
 

8 hours each way and it's a terrible drive.

Sam 

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 8:20 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Glad all went well Sammy!  You gotta’ nice fast Q!  Probably would have been a 7 hr trip on the ground?
Bruce


On Mar 21, 2021, at 7:14 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 The G280 NACA on the lower outboard wing surfaces add about 4lbs of pressure to the wing tanks at max cruise (which is much greater speed than any Q will see). G280 NACA is about 1 inch deep from the lower wing skin surface. They are also the wing vents when fuel is pumped in. I will be adding this feature to my fuel system. 

 The wings were tested at that amount (except once when the gauges were changed out and the tech didn't realize until too late that he went well over 4,, more like 40lbs!.. Wing became instantly bloated like a week long drowned cow and went BOOM!...  Disposition: Scrap; repair not economically feasible, Ouch..there went a few million down the drain).

 Jay is 100% correct. The bugs making nests become a concern..at least in these parts they are. Mud daubers. 

 Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 5:31 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Header tank pressure line
 

I think I remember seeing this proposed in the past, but I have not seen it in any of the planes I have seen flying. One thing to consider: The reason a NACA duct works is because it causes the flow near the skin to de-pressurize slightly, so it changes direction and into the duct.  On the other hand, you want maximum ram air pressure to the tank, so you need to extend the ram tube far enough away from the surface of the fuselage to get full velocity airflow. This is why the header ram air tube and also the pitot tube have stand-offs from the fuselage and/or wing surface. Suggest you keep that design. It is not much drag and it has valuable benefit to fuel flow.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nick Wright
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 4:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Header tank pressure line

 

Hello all,

 

     I saw (forget what website) the header tank pressure line was ran through the NACA opening on the side of a Q200. Does anyone have any we experience with this? Is the airflow adequate in this location?

 

Many thanks,

Nick Wright

N350JD

 

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 5:35 PM Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:

Good flight report Sam.  I'm surprised the B2 hangars are all in a nice straight line.  Is to make it easy to bomb them all in one pass?

Time to get back to flying!


Mike Dwyer

 

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 5:16 PM Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:

After a crazy cold winter it was about time to get in the air again. So I made a day-trip from Carbondale, IL, KMDH to Topeka Billard, KTOP. A gorgeous day, for the 355 mile trip. A nice little tailwind made me scoot along so I made the trip in just two hours. Groundspeed was usually around 180+ kts. I had a great visit with my daughter, grand and great grand kids, then it was back to the airport, all too soon. 

One interesting thing about the route of flight, it takes me directly over Whiteman AFB, the primary base for B-2 bombers. Whiteman is kind of in the middle of Missouri. According to the sectional, the top of their controlled airspace is just 3,400 feet, so going west I was at 4,500 feet and east was 5,500 feet. On one trip I saw a couple of B-2s on the ramp, a few F-16s and some helicopters, but today it was completely empty. It always make me wonder who's watching as I fly over at such a low altitude.   In the photo, you can see the row of the 14 or so B-2 hangars. I try to not make any deviations as I pass over.

The winds on departure at KTOP were around 20 kts, but the takeoff was just fine. Of course with every tailwind there is a corresponding headwind.  Fortunately, the winds aloft had shifted more out of the south and it wasn't too bad, I was still able to make a little better than 150 kts groundspeed and I got back in less than two and a half hours.  There was barely any wind at Carbondale, which I hate. 
I'm not very current and if the guy in the tower was watching, he might have been amused by the number of bounces I made. 

Great trip and it was nice to be back the same day, in time for a couple of cocktails with Sandy.

Sam Hoskins
Q-200

<image001.jpg>


<image002.jpg>
Forward Canopy geometry

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,
Jay


On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Jay. 

 Wow! Dem cylinders are pricy animal$ by themselves. I presume they are installed, but valve rotators on the exhausts are 100%
required. GM 300cu in 6 cylinder rotators are available new and work exactly as the early Corvair truck rotators.  Midyear 62 and later wagons had the rotators also. I have been driving Vairs of all kinds since 1969 and building engines at least that long. My Dad served in the Korean War all three years in the 2nd infantry (they are still on duty there today!), so I got  my time early in the powerplant experince.  

 He was Master Sarge of the vehicle rebuild and salvage out in the field. Turning wrenches while the communists were shootin at them.  When I came along he was at Boeing Wichita. He was Lead in the machine center making mostly AOG or one off MRB items.  My  "motorhead" blood was from my Dad and my "crazy about airplanes" blood from his older brother who served in the Pacific in WW2. My Mom was the first female director in Engineering at Boeing Seattle...so that is where my later cubical rat
life came from.     

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

Vern       

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 11:43 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Mint quality CORVAIR flight engine available
 
Anyone interested in this corvair aero engine conversion, let me know. This is an engine expert who put it together and is on one of my other groups. Below is the explanation of what is included and how well crafted this build is. Maybe Pat Panzera can pass it around also.

Here is Ron's note to me:
"Jay/Others:  Please be my guest to share the photos with whom you feel might benefit.  This would be one of the lightest CORVAIR flight engines you will find with many premier upgrades.  It features a 3.645" bore with ARIES forged pistons, SALIH  Aluminum finned centrifugally cast iron lined cylinder barrels, all reciprocating parts are balanced to within 1 gram and the rotating mass was spun and dynamically balanced (as close as I could get it).  The cam shaft is a reground OTTO "OT-10" with new valve lifters and new "fail-safe" timing gears.  The engine features a "5th bearing on the prop end to protect the crankshaft from gyroscopic prop loads (analogous to the Jab/CAMIT double front crankshaft bearings). The cylinder heads have been completely upgraded with new bronze valve guides, new Stainless Steel valve seats, SS one piece valves, new springs ---. The combustion chambers were volume matched to within 0.1 cc and I took great pains with all clearances and tolerances throughout the entire engine.  All external steel parts were electroless nickel plated and in addition I then powder-coated all parts that you see in black with the exception of the flywheel and starter field housing (they are baked on urethane "PPG Concept").  The charging system is similar to the belt driven CAMIT set-up; but, I used a 20 amp DYNAMO, driven by a Kevlar "V" belt.  The starter is NIPPON DENSO, I feel that they make the best starters in the industry.  In short I went through ever aspect of the engine to insure that it was up to aircraft flight standards, MPI inspected, NEW or completely re-worked.  I am known for being VERY particular, especially when it comes to my airplane work.  

The engine has been run on a test stand (several times) with the prop you see and a large cooling hood; it has been broken in. I have NOT run it on a dynamometer but I estimate the power output to be in the 100 + hp range.  It is impressively smooth.  I enjoyed the build process and took ~ 3 years of my leisure time to complete the project.  The carburetor is a certified Marvel Schebler MA-3 SPA with all the current updates---brass float one piece venturi---.  I have provisions for both cabin heat and carburetor heat (both sides of the engine exhaust system have a heat muff).   I took great pains to build it right.

The KR guys really like the CORVAIR note http://www.n56ml.com/.  A strong CORVAIR will pull a good KR at ~ 200 + mph in straight and level flight.  I have seen 174 mph in my SONEX in straight level flight but remember my stall is < 40 mph with full flaps and the KR is ~ 60 mph or so,  the old adage of thrust vs drag-- lift vs mass---the KR wing is thin and made to go fast but physics demands the loss of lift.

Anyway the synopsis in a nutshell and a neat project that few would undertake or be able to accomplish.  I have procrastinated the sale of my CORVAIR project but I am now ready to let-er go.  I have the 54" X 58" SenSenich prop, the fiberglass nose bowl and the powder coated 4130 SONEX engine mount shown in the photographs all to market.  I have the 3300 Jab currently housed and flying in my plane and an extra early model "solid lifter" Jab 3300 engine with NEW < 70 hour CAMIT cylinder heads pickled and ready for back-up if needed.  I just cannot see keeping the CORVAIR any longer.


Ron M"

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Milan via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2021 6:21 AM
To: main@jabcamit.groups.io
Subject: [JabCamit] ThroughBolts/My CORVAIR flight engine

Glen, ETTER’S all:  The photos of my CORVAIR flight engine as promised.  I am going to market it, it will make someone a good flight engine.









Ron
3121 - 3140 of 54692