Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Bruce Crain

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois. It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for. www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
﻿Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin - 1.15 g/cm3
print
Result:
Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight) 54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen

____________________________________________________________

21-Year-Old Charged in Boulder Massacre
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a4079da06240792c83st02duc1
Soldiers Held at Gunpoint While Moving Vaccines
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a407a93e540792c83st02duc2
Senator on Biden's \$3T Plan: 'We Need to Get It Done'
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a407a2c86340792c83st02duc3

Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Frankenbird Vern

Gud deal! When you can Jerry.. I am generating the build manual...same as my previous life in aviation
where this was part of my job. Build plans based on the projected mission goal of the aircraft...in this case
the revisions to the original RAF manual.

I have plenty of documents to back up with also. Every newsletter from day one, paper and CD. I have the
steel spring MKII sketches (not intended to go that way), Dragonfly items as well. Just about every factor
other than individual revisions made custom by builders now aviating.

The general status of the airframe is all the fuselage bulkheads are completed (by vacuum infusion, my preferred
method). The canopy was fitted by previous builder..the three other shells are untouched. Both flying surfaces are
built..ailerons and elevators still to do. Vertical and Rudder not fabricated yet. I will be fabricating my own cowling
from scratch.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 8:16 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

The next time I pull the cowling, I’ll take some pictures of the race car fire suppression system.  Unless I find pictures sooner.

Jerry

From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 7:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Lot of good design and methods comes from the racing world. I look forward to what Jerry offers. I am grateful for your efforts and on another Blog dealing with aviation I suggest recording the build on thumb drive for the DAR and more especially a record for ones own memory support. Upload and store video is a boost to the Airworthiness sign off and later builders as myself. Also good was advising on overseas sign off. The Commonwealth Nations are particularly difficult. Delt with that a few times in my aircraft factory life, so I don't envy builders of Experimental in those parts of the world.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.

Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.

Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well.

Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.

After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.

Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage.

Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Great story, Vern.

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event.

I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book.

The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel.

Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on.

Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic.

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.

Any photos of your canopy mod?

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,

Jay

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual.

The transition appears too blunt at present.

Vern

Ron

Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Rob de Bie

Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3
print
Result:
Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight) 54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen

Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Jay Scheevel

Hi Eugen,

Don’t get too quantitative on your numbers. You want to make sure you have enough to fully wet-out the layup. More epoxy means more weight, but lack of epoxy means loss of strength, so there if you err, you must err on the wet end of the spectrum.

Since you are vacuum bagging the layup, you will want to use enough epoxy to assure the layup is wetted properly, then let the vacuum process squeeze out the excess. Make sure no air is in the layup, then let the absorbant layer on top of the release layer soak up the excess. Good luck.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 6:31 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Dear Q-community,

the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........

So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?

But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator

Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3

print

### Result:

 Number of layers 1 Layers Laminate thickness 0.33 mm Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m² Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g Resin quantity 243 g Laminate weight 539 g Fibre content (weight) 54.9 % Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %

Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?

I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......

Best regards

Eugen

Re: Quickie Aircraft Pictures!!! ❤️

Thank you for the pics, Bruce! I very much enjoyed my time at the Field of Dreams reunion. I very much enjoyed getting to visit with everyone. This is one of the finest bunch of folks I've ever gotten to know! And such beautiful airplanes!

Mike

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021, 8:47:39 AM CDT, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Begin forwarded message:

From: Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Date: September 28, 2020 at 3:00:35 PM CDT
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Aircraft Pictures!!! ❤️

﻿ Hey bump into the url to see bunches of Quickie pictures!  Rachel Faruque posted all of the Field Of Dreams pics and more!!  You’re gonna love it!  Thank Rachel!!
Bruce

Quickie Aircraft Pictures!!! ❤️

Bruce Crain

Begin forwarded message:

From: Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Date: September 28, 2020 at 3:00:35 PM CDT
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Aircraft Pictures!!! ❤️

﻿Hey bump into the url to see bunches of Quickie pictures!  Rachel Faruque posted all of the Field Of Dreams pics and more!!  You’re gonna love it!  Thank Rachel!!
Bruce

Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>

The next time I pull the cowling, I’ll take some pictures of the race car fire suppression system.  Unless I find pictures sooner.

Jerry

From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 7:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Lot of good design and methods comes from the racing world. I look forward to what Jerry offers. I am grateful for your efforts and on another Blog dealing with aviation I suggest recording the build on thumb drive for the DAR and more especially a record for ones own memory support. Upload and store video is a boost to the Airworthiness sign off and later builders as myself. Also good was advising on overseas sign off. The Commonwealth Nations are particularly difficult. Delt with that a few times in my aircraft factory life, so I don't envy builders of Experimental in those parts of the world.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

https://youtu.be/MzFPIyD-_f0

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.

Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.

Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well.

Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.

After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.

Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage.

Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Great story, Vern.

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event.

I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book.

The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel.

Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on.

Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic.

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.

Any photos of your canopy mod?

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,

Jay

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual.

The transition appears too blunt at present.

Vern

Ron

Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski

Dear Q-community,

the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........

So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?

But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator

Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3

print

### Result:

 Number of layers 1 Layers Laminate thickness 0.33 mm Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m² Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g Resin quantity 243 g Laminate weight 539 g Fibre content (weight) 54.9 % Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %

Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?

I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......

Best regards

Eugen

Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Richard Thomson

Great Idea, thats even better than PRA, and with talk down thrown in at a fraction of the price.  Its a wonder there isnt a Q200 in Florida with a similar set up.  :-)

Lots of energy expended in your videos, made me tired just watching. Thanks Jay.

Br

Rich.

On 23/03/2021 12:05, Jay Scheevel wrote:
Sorry Richard, I misspoke. Should have said lidar altimeter. Very useful on landing. Calls out AGL to me as I round out and right down to touchdown. Kind of like having Buzz Aldrin sitting next to me in the LEM :-)

Cheers,
Jay

On Mar 23, 2021, at 4:39 AM, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

﻿

Thanks Jay , I will have a look.

FN has the closing plates as well, always wondered how close the screw holes were to the tank wall.

Precision radar eh, have you got Doppler as well ?? :-)

Br

Rich.

On 22/03/2021 23:39, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Hi Richard,

That is a hollow strake. I copied it after shapes I had seen on corporate jets. I figured good enough for them, good enough for me. That plate comes off to slide my elevator inboard for removal. The left strake also houses my downward looking precision radar altimeter. Main tank is per plans, so is not impacted by these strakes.

The construction details are shown in two time lapse videos: https://youtu.be/mDo6t2kM5VM and https://youtu.be/gKGtZ4oxDfo

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

Cheers,

Jay

<image002.jpg>

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event.

I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book.

The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel.

Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on.

Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic.

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.

Any photos of your canopy mod?

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,

Jay

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual.

The transition appears too blunt at present.

Vern

Ron

Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Jay Scheevel

Sorry Richard, I misspoke. Should have said lidar altimeter. Very useful on landing. Calls out AGL to me as I round out and right down to touchdown. Kind of like having Buzz Aldrin sitting next to me in the LEM :-)

Cheers,
Jay

On Mar 23, 2021, at 4:39 AM, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

﻿

Thanks Jay , I will have a look.

FN has the closing plates as well, always wondered how close the screw holes were to the tank wall.

Precision radar eh, have you got Doppler as well ?? :-)

Br

Rich.

On 22/03/2021 23:39, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Hi Richard,

That is a hollow strake. I copied it after shapes I had seen on corporate jets. I figured good enough for them, good enough for me. That plate comes off to slide my elevator inboard for removal. The left strake also houses my downward looking precision radar altimeter. Main tank is per plans, so is not impacted by these strakes.

The construction details are shown in two time lapse videos: https://youtu.be/mDo6t2kM5VM and https://youtu.be/gKGtZ4oxDfo

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

Cheers,

Jay

<image002.jpg>

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event.

I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book.

The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel.

Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on.

Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic.

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.

Any photos of your canopy mod?

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,

Jay

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual.

The transition appears too blunt at present.

Vern

Ron

Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Richard Thomson

Thanks Jay , I will have a look.

FN has the closing plates as well, always wondered how close the screw holes were to the tank wall.

Precision radar eh, have you got Doppler as well ?? :-)

Br

Rich.

On 22/03/2021 23:39, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Hi Richard,

That is a hollow strake. I copied it after shapes I had seen on corporate jets. I figured good enough for them, good enough for me. That plate comes off to slide my elevator inboard for removal. The left strake also houses my downward looking precision radar altimeter. Main tank is per plans, so is not impacted by these strakes.

The construction details are shown in two time lapse videos: https://youtu.be/mDo6t2kM5VM and https://youtu.be/gKGtZ4oxDfo

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event.

I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book.

The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel.

Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on.

Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic.

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.

Any photos of your canopy mod?

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,

Jay

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual.

The transition appears too blunt at present.

Vern

Ron

Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Stephen Theron

Thanks Jay. My goal is to get into the air as soon and as simply possible. May consider hot or cold venting for later conditions but nothing else unless there is a second project. The recording and documenting of your project is greatly appreciated for reference. Will let you know how I tackle the armrest and belly board handle.

Thank you

Stephen

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, 22 March 2021 23:13
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

One other thought. I know that the folks in the UK are pretty limited as to what mods they can legally make to the original plans/kit. May be the same in ZA.  Make sure that you do not make your plane un-licensable.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:08 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Stephen,  Just as a heads up. Many on this group recommend AGAINST most mods. I actually agree with that, since all of mine were primarily for my own preferences, added weight and added a LOT of extra build time.

So I would caution you to be judicious with your desires to modify things, even if you are copying some of my mods.

Best advice. If you are thinking of making a mod. Please bounce it off of this group first to see what kind of consensus you find before you launch into the effort.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Jay

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements.

Thank you very much.

Regards

Stephen Theron

+2784 699 1684

Johannesburg

South Africa

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿

Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.

 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay Scheevel

Thanks Bruce. I am going to try to go this year if all the stars align. I will definitely get it judged if I make it there. Thanks for your support.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:34 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay you’ve gotta get that bird judged at Oshkosh!  You could put Quickies back on the map!

Bruce

On Mar 22, 2021, at 3:57 PM, Stephen Theron <steviet888@...> wrote:

﻿Hi Jay

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements.

Thank you very much.

Regards

Stephen Theron

+2784 699 1684

Johannesburg

South Africa

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿

Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.

Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Jay Scheevel

Hi Richard,

That is a hollow strake. I copied it after shapes I had seen on corporate jets. I figured good enough for them, good enough for me. That plate comes off to slide my elevator inboard for removal. The left strake also houses my downward looking precision radar altimeter. Main tank is per plans, so is not impacted by these strakes.

The construction details are shown in two time lapse videos: https://youtu.be/mDo6t2kM5VM and https://youtu.be/gKGtZ4oxDfo

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event.

I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book.

The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel.

Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on.

Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic.

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.

Any photos of your canopy mod?

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,

Jay

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual.

The transition appears too blunt at present.

Vern

Ron

Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Frankenbird Vern

Lot of good design and methods comes from the racing world. I look forward to what Jerry offers. I am grateful for your efforts and on another Blog dealing with aviation I suggest recording the build on thumb drive for the DAR and more especially a record for ones own memory support. Upload and store video is a boost to the Airworthiness sign off and later builders as myself. Also good was advising on overseas sign off. The Commonwealth Nations are particularly difficult. Delt with that a few times in my aircraft factory life, so I don't envy builders of Experimental in those parts of the world.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.

Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.

Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well.

Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.

After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.

Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage.

Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all.

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Great story, Vern.

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event.

I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book.

The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel.

Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on.

Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic.

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.

Any photos of your canopy mod?

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,

Jay

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual.

The transition appears too blunt at present.

Vern

Ron

Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Richard Thomson

There is a system that our UK LAA run for Mods which provided it is justified and to the rules can get approved. Most of those are structural / engine mods you guys have already tried and tested.

Avionics is somewhat easier.

Your build documents are amazing Jay, nearly all the TriQ info in one place.

Br

Rich T.

On 22/03/2021 21:13, Jay Scheevel wrote:

One other thought. I know that the folks in the UK are pretty limited as to what mods they can legally make to the original plans/kit. May be the same in ZA.  Make sure that you do not make your plane un-licensable.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:08 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Stephen,  Just as a heads up. Many on this group recommend AGAINST most mods. I actually agree with that, since all of mine were primarily for my own preferences, added weight and added a LOT of extra build time.

So I would caution you to be judicious with your desires to modify things, even if you are copying some of my mods.

Best advice. If you are thinking of making a mod. Please bounce it off of this group first to see what kind of consensus you find before you launch into the effort.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Jay

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements.

Thank you very much.

Regards

Stephen Theron

+2784 699 1684

Johannesburg

South Africa

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿

Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.

Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Bruce Crain

Jay you’ve gotta get that bird judged at Oshkosh!  You could put Quickies back on the map!
Bruce

On Mar 22, 2021, at 3:57 PM, Stephen Theron <steviet888@...> wrote:

﻿Hi Jay

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements.

Thank you very much.

Regards

Stephen Theron
+2784 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿

Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.

Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Richard Thomson

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event.

I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book.

The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel.

Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on.

Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic.

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.

Any photos of your canopy mod?

Vern

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,

Jay

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:

﻿

Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual.

The transition appears too blunt at present.

Vern

Ron

Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>

Great forethought. Hope to see you at the Fling.

-------- Original message --------
From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Date: 3/22/21 4:26 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.

Re: Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay Scheevel

One other thought. I know that the folks in the UK are pretty limited as to what mods they can legally make to the original plans/kit. May be the same in ZA.  Make sure that you do not make your plane un-licensable.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:08 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Stephen,  Just as a heads up. Many on this group recommend AGAINST most mods. I actually agree with that, since all of mine were primarily for my own preferences, added weight and added a LOT of extra build time.

So I would caution you to be judicious with your desires to modify things, even if you are copying some of my mods.

Best advice. If you are thinking of making a mod. Please bounce it off of this group first to see what kind of consensus you find before you launch into the effort.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:57 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Jay

Thank you for your “above and beyond “, well documented reply. It also gives me information for more modifications and improvements.

Thank you very much.

Regards

Stephen Theron

+2784 699 1684

Johannesburg

South Africa

On 22 Mar 2021, at 22:26, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿

Thanks Jerry. High compliment, coming from you!

FYI. There is more! Look under the heading “Build Logs, Chapters” on the following page: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/BuilderDocuments.htm

I put all this online, so that if I get stranded somewhere because of a problem, I can refer to this info and refresh my ever more feeble memory before I start tearing things apart to fix stuff.

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Marstall
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Jay's that is a fabulous log you put together.  Makes my etch-a-sketch page look puny.

J

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 3/22/21 11:58 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Stephen,

The armrest is part of the fuselage structure and stiffens the fuselage where the canopy opening is. The opening makes that portion of the fuselage less rigid, so the stiffening contribution of the consoles is needed. There is a solution to your dilemma, however. If you cut the top of the armrest off, but leave or fabricate an attach flange (glass to glass) on both the fuselage side and the vertical portion of the arm rest, you can put some nut-plates on this tab and fasten with screws to maintain the structural stiffness of the armrest assembly. This is what I did on my build. Center console, and both armrests are built this way on my plane. See pages 97-104 in the linked document: http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/build_logs/02_N8WQ-log_Construction-Fuselage.pdf

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 8:39 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Tri Q2 with Belly board

Hi Guys

I’m busy restoring after standing for 17 years.

I’m busy with the Belly board control handle mechanism which seized and needs replacing. The handle is situated inside the left armrest against the fuselage. In order to access this I may need to cut away part of the armrest? Has anyone had any experience with this and if so please share with me. Is the armrest an integral part of the structure?

Regards

Stephen Theron
+27 84 699 1684
Johannesburg
South Africa.

 3861 - 3880 of 55446