Date   

Re: Resin volume placed on foam

smeshno1@...
 

 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

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Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Anthony P
 
Edited

With all the talk about fuel dumping, tank integrity, and motorsports, I'm very surprised I have not seen or heard of fuel cells or fuel bladders being used in homebuilt composite aircraft.
All of my race cars have used fuel cells with flexible and puncture resistant bladders.  Both of the companies I buy from started out in the aircraft industry and I think still serve that industry.

Here's a link to a common supplier of high end (expensive) onboard fire suppression systems used in amateur and professional car racing.
https://www.lifeline-fire.co.uk/


Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Mike Steinsland
 

I've been kicking around an idea because I too have to flip this puppy soon

Attached a really really quick sketch of something I've been mulling over using some 3/4 ply I have laying around 

Make it out of plywood with a flat spot on the top and bottom 
Have the top tall enough to give you the right height when flipped over
I figure a couple of guys could flip it up on its nose and continue on to it's back.
Possibly put some locking castor wheels on it to move it around

On Tue., Mar. 23, 2021, 5:30 p.m. Jim Patillo, <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Make a Tic Tac Toe 2x4 frame and attach to the 4 motor mounts. You can set the fuselage on the nose or rotate on 45degree increments. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:04:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 
I made an appliance that attached to the engine mount and it allowed me to stand it up or put it right side up or upside down (with help of friends) depending on what I wanted to do. I can send pictures if you want.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dorothea Keats
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

   Any one have any interesting tricks for positioning the airplane to prime and paint. I am thinking of trying to partially stand the fuselage up to be able to access the bottom, and make some type of rotisserie for the tail section.  Any idea?     Chris


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Re: paint----

Mike Steinsland
 

Now that's a good idea.
Definitely stealing that!

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 6:22 PM Dorothea Keats <dkeats@...> wrote:
   Thanks for the info on the painting positions. That is what I was
thinking. One other thing I did was to set the fuselage level and then
make a crate with wheels to hold the engine. Can move it back and forth
in place when doing bulkhead fittings , wiring etc.

  Take care--------  Chris


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Mike Steinsland


Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Rob de Bie
 

Eugen, now that I read your report, I have to correct myself. Airex C70.55 is definitely suitable for full vacuum. I was thinking about much lighter weight XPS foam.

I did almost similar experiments like you, probably using the same foam, applying micro on the foam, then laminating one or two glass layers. It was some 26 years ago, and unfortunately I no longer have the exact results. But I do remember being quite shocked / disappointed by the weight. I hope your end result is more satisfying.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 22:55, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear all,
thank you for your comments and information, very valuable. So far the fist bulkhead FS 89 is ready and the vacuum bag is filled.
At first I mixed resin with a lot of 40,5g and separate 20g for micro and 20,5g for glass, but after the first 20g for micro was spread I need to go with the other 20,5g. After that the foam was „wet“ and every part of it was filled. The foam (Airex C70.55) is highly absorbent. After that I need to mix another 40.5g to fill the glass, remember the laminate calculator from R&G indicate a total resin demand of 29g for the FS89 bulkhead. So there is a gap between the calculator and that what I need in the end about 279%.
The foam weight naked is 82g, with the micro is 126g, the glass (insert not cut out yet) was 98,57g, the second load of resin was 40,5g, so currently the first layer include micro/resin and glass is around  265,7g. Additional to that I place on layer Compoflex to absorb the unnecessary resin form the surface and the vacuum is fixed at 840hPa, like Rob proposed in his email.
Some numbers for first Layer:
FS89
Foam 82 g 0,181 lbs 31%
Micro 44 g 0,097 lbs 17%
Glass 98,57 g 0,217 lbs 37%
Resin 40,5 g 0,089 lbs 15%
total 265,7 g 0,58 lbs 100%
Please find in the attachment some picture, at the end of this email.
Best regards
Eugen

Am 23.03.2021 um 21:21 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com <mailto:jay@scheevel.com>>:

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From:main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io><main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To:main@q-list.groups.io <mailto:main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for. www.cozygirrrl.com <http://www.cozygirrrl.com>
Bruce Crain
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@xs4all.nl <mailto:robdebie@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
    Result:
Number of layers    1 Layers
Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
Resin quantity    243 g
Laminate weight    539 g
Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen

____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more <https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more>

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paint----

Chris Walterson
 

Thanks for the info on the painting positions. That is what I was thinking. One other thing I did was to set the fuselage level and then make a crate with wheels to hold the engine. Can move it back and forth in place when doing bulkhead fittings , wiring etc.

 Take care--------  Chris


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Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski
 

Dear all,

thank you for your comments and information, very valuable. So far the fist bulkhead FS 89 is ready and the vacuum bag is filled. 

At first I mixed resin with a lot of 40,5g and separate 20g for micro and 20,5g for glass, but after the first 20g for micro was spread I need to go with the other 20,5g. After that the foam was „wet“ and every part of it was filled. The foam (Airex C70.55) is highly absorbent. After that I need to mix another 40.5g to fill the glass, remember the laminate calculator from R&G indicate a total resin demand of 29g for the FS89 bulkhead. So there is a gap between the calculator and that what I need in the end about 279%.

The foam weight naked is 82g, with the micro is 126g, the glass (insert not cut out yet) was 98,57g, the second load of resin was 40,5g, so currently the first layer include micro/resin and glass is around  265,7g. Additional to that I place on layer Compoflex to absorb the unnecessary resin form the surface and the vacuum is fixed at 840hPa, like Rob proposed in his email.

Some numbers for first Layer: 

FS89 
Foam 82 g 0,181 lbs 31%
Micro 44 g 0,097 lbs 17%
Glass 98,57 g 0,217 lbs 37%
Resin 40,5 g 0,089 lbs 15%
total 265,7 g 0,58 lbs 100%

Please find in the attachment some picture, at the end of this email.

Best regards 

Eugen 

Am 23.03.2021 um 21:21 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum. 

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% 
more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G 
laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate 
thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
    Result:
Number of layers    1 Layers
Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
Resin quantity    243 g
Laminate weight    539 g
Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen




____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

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http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a4079da06240792c83st02duc1
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Senator on Biden's $3T Plan: 'We Need to Get It Done'
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Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Jim Patillo
 

Make a Tic Tac Toe 2x4 frame and attach to the 4 motor mounts. You can set the fuselage on the nose or rotate on 45degree increments. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:04:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 
I made an appliance that attached to the engine mount and it allowed me to stand it up or put it right side up or upside down (with help of friends) depending on what I wanted to do. I can send pictures if you want.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dorothea Keats
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

   Any one have any interesting tricks for positioning the airplane to prime and paint. I am thinking of trying to partially stand the fuselage up to be able to access the bottom, and make some type of rotisserie for the tail section.  Any idea?     Chris


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Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Jay Scheevel
 

I made an appliance that attached to the engine mount and it allowed me to stand it up or put it right side up or upside down (with help of friends) depending on what I wanted to do. I can send pictures if you want.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dorothea Keats
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Any one have any interesting tricks for positioning the airplane to prime and paint. I am thinking of trying to partially stand the fuselage up to be able to access the bottom, and make some type of rotisserie for the tail section. Any idea? Chris


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Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Chris Walterson
 

Any one have any interesting tricks for positioning the airplane to prime and paint. I am thinking of trying to partially stand the fuselage up to be able to access the bottom, and make some type of rotisserie for the tail section.  Any idea?     Chris


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Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Jay Scheevel
 

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down. I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois. It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for. www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin - 1.15 g/cm3 print
Result:
Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight) 54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen

____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

21-Year-Old Charged in Boulder Massacre
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a4079da06240792c83st02duc1
Soldiers Held at Gunpoint While Moving Vaccines
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a407a93e540792c83st02duc2
Senator on Biden's $3T Plan: 'We Need to Get It Done'
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a407a2c86340792c83st02duc3


Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Bruce Crain
 

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois. It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for. www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin - 1.15 g/cm3
print
Result:
Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight) 54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen

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Re: Forward Canopy geometry

smeshno1@...
 

 Gud deal! When you can Jerry.. I am generating the build manual...same as my previous life in aviation 
where this was part of my job. Build plans based on the projected mission goal of the aircraft...in this case
the revisions to the original RAF manual. 

 I have plenty of documents to back up with also. Every newsletter from day one, paper and CD. I have the 
steel spring MKII sketches (not intended to go that way), Dragonfly items as well. Just about every factor 
other than individual revisions made custom by builders now aviating.

 The general status of the airframe is all the fuselage bulkheads are completed (by vacuum infusion, my preferred
method). The canopy was fitted by previous builder..the three other shells are untouched. Both flying surfaces are 
built..ailerons and elevators still to do. Vertical and Rudder not fabricated yet. I will be fabricating my own cowling 
from scratch. 

Vern        


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 8:16 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 

The next time I pull the cowling, I’ll take some pictures of the race car fire suppression system.  Unless I find pictures sooner.

Jerry

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 7:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Lot of good design and methods comes from the racing world. I look forward to what Jerry offers. I am grateful for your efforts and on another Blog dealing with aviation I suggest recording the build on thumb drive for the DAR and more especially a record for ones own memory support. Upload and store video is a boost to the Airworthiness sign off and later builders as myself. Also good was advising on overseas sign off. The Commonwealth Nations are particularly difficult. Delt with that a few times in my aircraft factory life, so I don't envy builders of Experimental in those parts of the world.

 

Vern   

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

https://youtu.be/0Ct7ZWoG3yE

https://youtu.be/MzFPIyD-_f0

 

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

 

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

 

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

 

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

 

Vern        

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron








Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Rob de Bie
 

Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3
print
Result:
Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight) 54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen


Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Eugen,

 

Don’t get too quantitative on your numbers. You want to make sure you have enough to fully wet-out the layup. More epoxy means more weight, but lack of epoxy means loss of strength, so there if you err, you must err on the wet end of the spectrum.

 

Since you are vacuum bagging the layup, you will want to use enough epoxy to assure the layup is wetted properly, then let the vacuum process squeeze out the excess. Make sure no air is in the layup, then let the absorbant layer on top of the release layer soak up the excess. Good luck.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 6:31 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Dear Q-community,

the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........

So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?

But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator 

Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3

print

Result:

Number of layers

1 Layers

Laminate thickness

0.33 mm

Fibre reinforcement surface area

1.00 m²

Fibre reinforcement gross weight

296 g

Resin quantity

243 g

Laminate weight

539 g

Fibre content (weight) 

54.9 %

Fibre content (volume)

35.0 %


Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule? 

I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......

Best regards

Eugen 


Re: Quickie Aircraft Pictures!!! ❤️

 

Thank you for the pics, Bruce! I very much enjoyed my time at the Field of Dreams reunion. I very much enjoyed getting to visit with everyone. This is one of the finest bunch of folks I've ever gotten to know! And such beautiful airplanes!

Mike


On Tuesday, March 23, 2021, 8:47:39 AM CDT, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:





Begin forwarded message:

From: Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Date: September 28, 2020 at 3:00:35 PM CDT
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Aircraft Pictures!!! ❤️
Reply-To: main@q-list.groups.io

 Hey bump into the url to see bunches of Quickie pictures!  Rachel Faruque posted all of the Field Of Dreams pics and more!!  You’re gonna love it!  Thank Rachel!! 
Bruce






Quickie Aircraft Pictures!!! ❤️

Bruce Crain
 




Begin forwarded message:

From: Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Date: September 28, 2020 at 3:00:35 PM CDT
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Quickie Aircraft Pictures!!! ❤️
Reply-To: main@q-list.groups.io

Hey bump into the url to see bunches of Quickie pictures!  Rachel Faruque posted all of the Field Of Dreams pics and more!!  You’re gonna love it!  Thank Rachel!! 
Bruce






Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

The next time I pull the cowling, I’ll take some pictures of the race car fire suppression system.  Unless I find pictures sooner.

Jerry

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 7:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Lot of good design and methods comes from the racing world. I look forward to what Jerry offers. I am grateful for your efforts and on another Blog dealing with aviation I suggest recording the build on thumb drive for the DAR and more especially a record for ones own memory support. Upload and store video is a boost to the Airworthiness sign off and later builders as myself. Also good was advising on overseas sign off. The Commonwealth Nations are particularly difficult. Delt with that a few times in my aircraft factory life, so I don't envy builders of Experimental in those parts of the world.

 

Vern   

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

https://youtu.be/0Ct7ZWoG3yE

https://youtu.be/MzFPIyD-_f0

 

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

 

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

 

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

 

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

 

Vern        

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron








Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski
 

Dear Q-community,

the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........

So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?

But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator 

Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3

print

Result:

Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight)  54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %

Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule? 

I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......

Best regards

Eugen 


Re: Forward Canopy geometry

Richard Thomson
 

    Great Idea, thats even better than PRA, and with talk down thrown in at a fraction of the price.  Its a wonder there isnt a Q200 in Florida with a similar set up.  :-)

    Lots of energy expended in your videos, made me tired just watching. Thanks Jay.

    Br

    Rich.

On 23/03/2021 12:05, Jay Scheevel wrote:
Sorry Richard, I misspoke. Should have said lidar altimeter. Very useful on landing. Calls out AGL to me as I round out and right down to touchdown. Kind of like having Buzz Aldrin sitting next to me in the LEM :-)

Cheers,
Jay


On Mar 23, 2021, at 4:39 AM, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:



    Thanks Jay , I will have a look.

    FN has the closing plates as well, always wondered how close the screw holes were to the tank wall.

    Precision radar eh, have you got Doppler as well ?? :-)

    Br

    Rich.

On 22/03/2021 23:39, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Hi Richard,

 

That is a hollow strake. I copied it after shapes I had seen on corporate jets. I figured good enough for them, good enough for me. That plate comes off to slide my elevator inboard for removal. The left strake also houses my downward looking precision radar altimeter. Main tank is per plans, so is not impacted by these strakes.

The construction details are shown in two time lapse videos: https://youtu.be/mDo6t2kM5VM and https://youtu.be/gKGtZ4oxDfo

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

 

 

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

<image002.jpg>

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 




On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron











1941 - 1960 of 53537