Date   

Re: Trivia

Jay Scheevel
 

Hope that retirement means we will see that award winning Cozy make its debut that much sooner! Happy (belated) Birthday, Terry.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kevin Boddicker
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 7:49 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia

 

AND retirement  bound!!!

Congrats,

 

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B    547 hrs
Luana, IA.





On Mar 26, 2021, at 8:17 AM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

 

Then he is the same age as me!  Sweet!  And vintage!

Bruce



On Mar 25, 2021, at 10:30 PM, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:



Happy Birthday Terry!

 

Jim

N46JP Q200

 

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 7:48:10 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia

 

1954?!!



On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:



YYYYes!!

 

Yur both correct. 

March 25th 19??

I better not finish the year but I will say we were born less than a month apart.

Happy Birthday Terry

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bruce Crain" <jcrain2@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:21:02 -0500

 

Terry!!

Happy birthday unless it’s not you!  Then I take it back!

Bruce

 

 

On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:10 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:

Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.

 

Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 

I still have four hours before today ends.

 

A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"

Happy Birthday ?????

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Trivia

Kevin Boddicker
 

AND retirement  bound!!!
Congrats,

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B    547 hrs
Luana, IA.



On Mar 26, 2021, at 8:17 AM, Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:

Then he is the same age as me!  Sweet!  And vintage!
Bruce


On Mar 25, 2021, at 10:30 PM, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:


Happy Birthday Terry!

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 7:48:10 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia
 
1954?!!


On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:


YYYYes!!
 
Yur both correct. 
March 25th 19??
I better not finish the year but I will say we were born less than a month apart.
Happy Birthday Terry

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bruce Crain" <jcrain2@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:21:02 -0500


Terry!!

Happy birthday unless it’s not you!  Then I take it back!
Bruce

 

On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:10 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:

Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.
 
Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 
I still have four hours before today ends.
 
A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"
Happy Birthday ?????












Re: Trivia

Bruce Crain
 

Then he is the same age as me!  Sweet!  And vintage!
Bruce


On Mar 25, 2021, at 10:30 PM, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:


Happy Birthday Terry!

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 7:48:10 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia
 
1954?!!


On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:


YYYYes!!
 
Yur both correct. 
March 25th 19??
I better not finish the year but I will say we were born less than a month apart.
Happy Birthday Terry

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bruce Crain" <jcrain2@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:21:02 -0500

Terry!!

Happy birthday unless it’s not you!  Then I take it back!
Bruce

 

On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:10 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:

Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.
 
Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 
I still have four hours before today ends.
 
A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"
Happy Birthday ?????











Re: Trivia

Jim Patillo
 

Happy Birthday Terry!

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 7:48:10 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia
 
1954?!!


On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:


YYYYes!!
 
Yur both correct. 
March 25th 19??
I better not finish the year but I will say we were born less than a month apart.
Happy Birthday Terry

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bruce Crain" <jcrain2@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:21:02 -0500

Terry!!

Happy birthday unless it’s not you!  Then I take it back!
Bruce

 

On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:10 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:

Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.
 
Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 
I still have four hours before today ends.
 
A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"
Happy Birthday ?????









Re: Trivia

Bruce Crain
 

1954?!!


On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:32 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:


YYYYes!!
 
Yur both correct. 
March 25th 19??
I better not finish the year but I will say we were born less than a month apart.
Happy Birthday Terry

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bruce Crain" <jcrain2@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:21:02 -0500

Terry!!

Happy birthday unless it’s not you!  Then I take it back!
Bruce

 

On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:10 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:

Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.
 
Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 
I still have four hours before today ends.
 
A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"
Happy Birthday ?????









Re: Trivia

Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

First initial T

-------- Original message --------
From: Keith Welsh <kw544@...>
Date: 3/25/21 8:10 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Trivia

Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.
 
Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 
I still have four hours before today ends.
 
A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"
Happy Birthday ?????



Re: Trivia

 

YYYYes!!
 
Yur both correct. 
March 25th 19??
I better not finish the year but I will say we were born less than a month apart.
Happy Birthday Terry


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bruce Crain" <jcrain2@...>
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Trivia
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:21:02 -0500

Terry!!

Happy birthday unless it’s not you!  Then I take it back!
Bruce

 

On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:10 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:

Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.
 
Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 
I still have four hours before today ends.
 
A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"
Happy Birthday ?????







Re: Trivia

Bruce Crain
 

Terry!!
Happy birthday unless it’s not you!  Then I take it back!
Bruce


On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:10 PM, Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:


Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.
 
Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 
I still have four hours before today ends.
 
A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"
Happy Birthday ?????





Re: Trivia

Paul Fisher
 

N14TC?!?


On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 17:10 Keith Welsh <kw544@...> wrote:
Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.
 
Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 
I still have four hours before today ends.
 
A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"
Happy Birthday ?????



Trivia

 

Just wondering if anyone can name the birthday boy who has the highest award winning Quickie at AirVenture.
 
Sorry didn't post earlier but was hauling soybeans all day to the Ohio River and didn't get an chance earlier. 
I still have four hours before today ends.
 
A hint, the tail number ends with the letter "C"
Happy Birthday ?????



Re: CNC'd stainless parts

Nick Wright
 

I have a request in to them for a quote for some Q parts 


On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 11:35 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Just saw this outfit mentioned on the Experimental Aircraft and Homebuilder’s group facebook page. Looks like a great option if you want to make multiple identical or precision cut parts.

 

https://sendcutsend.com/

 

Cheers,

Jay

 


CNC'd stainless parts

Jay Scheevel
 

Just saw this outfit mentioned on the Experimental Aircraft and Homebuilder’s group facebook page. Looks like a great option if you want to make multiple identical or precision cut parts.

 

https://sendcutsend.com/

 

Cheers,

Jay

 


Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski
 

The missing Picture of Bulkhead 153.7 and AFT Canopy Bulkhead, ups. Sorry.  


Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski
 

Vern,
we stay in Wuerzburg area in Bavaria between Nuernberg and Frankfurt. 

In which area of the cowling you mean to replace it with Kevelar 49? Any picture or small sketches available?

For the Q1 I choice a B&S Vanguard 679cc comes in standard performance with 23hp and additional some modifications I will placed like, High compression cast pistons, Billet rods with racing spec. bolts, Timing advanced 8°, Longer duration camshaft to shift the power band upwards, Upgraded valve gear to give more valve lift, stronger parts and prevent valve bounce, free flow filter and adapter ‘High altitude’ jet kit, Tuned length exhaust pipes, although simpler one may work well too. The requested parts will come from the US because they are some very proficient companies to support that engine.

 

So far the next parts are in the bag, it´s the Bulkhead 153.7 and AFT Canopy Bulkhead. But in that case I turn the top to bottom, because the vacuum causes the glass fibre to wrap around the corner of the prey part and thus the end faces are also glued together, which then has to be removed with a cutter.

Best regards

Eugen 


Re: More random pictures of Quickie and then some!

Rodney Herzig
 

Great pictures Bruce. Thank you for sharing. Looking forward to this year’s FOD fly-in.

Rod Herzig


On Mar 24, 2021, at 3:26 PM, Dave Dugas via groups.io <davedq2@...> wrote:

Great times. Thanks for sharing the memories.
Dave D


On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 1:38 PM, JMasal via groups.io
<JMasal@...> wrote:
very nice werk, brucie


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 24, 2021 8:16 am
Subject: [Q-List] More random pictures of Quickie and then some!

I found these in my inbox from a long time ago!  Whet your whistle and look over the pictures section!  Some are from Orange, Massachusetts Field Of Dreams,  Enid, Oklahoma also plus extras from other places!  Lots of beautiful Quickies and friends so take a break and enjoy!
Bruce  Crain
 
 
 



Re: More random pictures of Quickie and then some!

Dave Dugas
 

Great times. Thanks for sharing the memories.
Dave D


On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 1:38 PM, JMasal via groups.io
<JMasal@...> wrote:
very nice werk, brucie


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Mar 24, 2021 8:16 am
Subject: [Q-List] More random pictures of Quickie and then some!

I found these in my inbox from a long time ago!  Whet your whistle and look over the pictures section!  Some are from Orange, Massachusetts Field Of Dreams,  Enid, Oklahoma also plus extras from other places!  Lots of beautiful Quickies and friends so take a break and enjoy!
Bruce  Crain
 
 
 



Re: Resin volume placed on foam

smeshno1@...
 

 Which part of my heritage Nation do you live, Eugen?

 I have been to Germany several times. I understand your
goals and why it is important. If you can, might be savings in
the cowling using Kelar 49. You will also better meet the
sound restrictions if you can use this. What plan for powerplant
in your aircraft?  

Vern Lehman


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 3:32 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Dear Q-community, 

wow, thank you very much for your notes, hints and the very valuable information. For anyone that build in his own walls is very important to get a different point of view! Thank Q-Groupe.

So the bag is open and the bulkhead FS89 part looks in my point of view, very good. Please find below some picture about the part, at the end of that email.  The ratio from resin to glas is around 50%, so the proposal from Rob looks good for that part, based on the fact that it goes 46g to the part and 35g in the Compoflex (Ply) and somewhere. The vacuum level was hold all time long around 850 hpa ( around 1500 kg/m2 or 3306 lbs/m2) served my pump station. Please find below the source I catch up all information about the pump station  https://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm

The numbers FS89 top and down:

determine description weight   weight %
weighted Foam  82 g 0,185 lbs 48%
weighted Glass 44 g 0,099 lbs 20%
weighted Foam+1st layer + Resin 172 g 0,387 lbs 100% ratio Resin to glass
calculated Resin 46 g 0,104 lbs 27% 51%
 
I think that I will go further with vacuum bags so far not any big issue come up during that process. Especially for the fuselage and the other parts that will work with vacuum bag so far. It is a pity that there is no more detailed information on the individual component weights from other Q1 projects from the past

Well, the point of the whole weight issue is I need to go with the Q1 lower than 120kg (264,5lbs) all In, because the German ultralight rules don not allowed more. And for sure, I will get my ass in better condition if the bird will start at first time, not yet, but in due corse :-) 

Of course, the finishing is a very important step like Sam show up in his video at youtube (Micro - sand - micro  - sand - done). 

Best regards from Germany 

Eugen 

Am 24.03.2021 um 18:53 schrieb Robert Cringely <bob@...>:

Ideally you want 50 percent glass and 50 percent resin by weight, which is what you generally get with pre-preg. But, as another poster noted, there can be a dry lay-up problem if you push too hard in that direction, hence that original guidance about aiming for 60 percent resin, which is pretty okay and better than most. But there's another problem to be considered with Rutan construction, which is whatever weight you save in the lay-up you are likely to lose in the finishing. It amazes me to see builders who fight for that last ounce of resin then slather Bondo on the final surface for finishing. Yes, most of the Bondo is sanded off and yes, you can use micro instead of Bondo, but it still makes good sense to take a holistic approach to composite work. Your vacuum bagging sounds great, but keep the finish line in mind.

I'll always remember the wisdom of Dragonfly designer Bob Walters, writing in Sport Aviation. Bob maintained that humans can tolerate only so much sanding and paint prep, so if you spend too much time on the prep you can't help yourself but rush to finish the painting. He thought the psychological sanding limit was 250 hours. So if you obsess too much with the early stuff, you'll rush too much at the end and the plane will show it. Wise man.

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 10:18 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Yes.. and with caul sheet and/or tooling surfaces this is especially true. Saves lots of TIME..but not a lot in weight. 

 Of course, in a production setting time reduction is a major part of the path to profits. Big difference in mission of the projects. Our project out in our shop is not demanding a profit margin for the stockholders.  I personally have no problems with anyone using all the up to date techniques if one wishes to do so..if the structure is good..no problem. God knows we have (and STILL have) plenty of failures in mass production in parts...even with the most fancy dancy methods and toys money can buy!.   Not me.. I'm not looking to save 10 pounds over all and spend oodles of time and greenbacks to get them. I had to do that as a job over 30 years..chasing time and methods all over the place for a few pounds or minutes saving.  

 I'm interested in adding safety and access using the existing methods and structure as much as possible.

Vern       


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:56 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
From memory the Cozy girls said “you won’t save any weight with their vacuum bagging.  It just made smooth uniform pieces that didn’t need much filler”.  That’s from about 10+ years ago so I can’t “etch that in stone”.
Bruce 


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:01 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

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Re: Fuel tank options.

Robert Cringely
 

Speaking purely as a cheapskate who lives in the state with America's highest fuel prices, I make my own ethanol-free avgas from red 87-octane agriculture fuel. It's easy with a translucent plastic storage tank (mine originally carried bulk varietal wine -- I live in Sonoma County) with a drain tap added near the bottom of the tank. I take the tank to the gas station that sells red (untaxed -- 36 cents cheaper per gallon here) ag fuel. Starting with half a tank, add a bunch of water. Yes, add water to your gasoline! Almost immediately the ethanol will be absorbed by the water and both will settle to the bottom of the tank. You can see the demarcation right through the translucent tank wall. Drain out the water/alcohol mixture through the lower tap. I say "lower tap" because there is an identical tap a couple inches higher in the tank through which you can draw the actual fuel for your plane. As long as the demarcation line is below the upper tap, all you can take out of the tank is gasoline, no water or alcohol. This also means that there is no gasoline in the fluid you withdraw from the lower tap, which you can just allow to evaporate. 

The fuel that results from this really easy effort is lower octane than you'd like because ethanol has higher octane than gasoline. I estimate it is around 85 octane. Now that's plenty good for most older aircraft engines, but not for a VW or a higher-compression O-200. You can start with higher octane gas, but that's not red and therefore not cheap. So what I do is add Aces IV gasoline fuel additive (http://bndautomotive.com/aces-formulas/aces-iv-gasoline-formula/), which not only raises the octane number by eight points (85 to 93) it adds a fuel preservative. The stuff is expensive but costs less than $0.10 per gallon of fuel. One gallon of Aces IV treats 770 gallons of gas, by the way, so I buy a gallon only about once per year.

You end up with 10 percent less fuel, of course, but my last purchase here worked out to about $2.10 per gallon (highest gas prices in America, remember), and you aren't running all over the state looking for ethanol-free gas for $5 per gallon. This is all perfectly legal, by the way, and I'm not the first guy to do it.



On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 10:04 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 It (the internal tank foams).. would displace some capacity, yes. 

My particular solution, Bruce, is to purchase a blown seamless poly tank, and then plans build around it. I am looking at a tank right now that is holding 250 gallons of water in my cottage. Part of my rain catchment system. It is common material. 

 My engine compression is safe using 93 octane (boat gas).. NO ethanol!!  100LL is of course also no problem for detonation protection, but I must use lead extraction additive. Neither fuel will attack the poly tank(s)... both tanks can take pressurization, within reason of course. They are tuff!! I have purposely inflated and deflated sealed tanks just to see where they fail at. No dice..
they stayed fluid tight. 

Vern     


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 8:01 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 
The airframe needs to be as light as possible.  The foam filled fuel tanks would take away a bit of fuel volume wouldn’t it?
Bruce


On Mar 23, 2021, at 6:18 PM, Anthony P <solarant@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

With all the talk about fuel dumping, tank integrity, and motorsports, I'm very surprised I have not seen or heard of fuel cells or fuel bladders being used in homebuilt composite aircraft.
All of my race cars have used fuel cells with flexible and puncture resistant bladders.  Both of the companies I buy from started out in the aircraft industry and I think still serve that industry.

Here's a link to a common supplier of high end (expensive) onboard fire suppression systems used in amateur and professional car racing.
https://www.lifeline-fire.co.uk/



Re: Fuel tank options.

Bruce Crain
 

I will be excited to see you fly into FOD or earlier in 2024!  Gitter done!
Bruce


On Mar 24, 2021, at 3:23 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


Yes.. the G load capacity should be no different. The poly tanks are profiled to the IML of the plans main tank. The reserve similar, only smaller of course. This is not off the shelf at Tractor (mmmm) Aircraft Supply Company, but the material IS the same as the tanks at farm supply stores. The white poly. A better way to think of it is a "harder material bladder".
 
 One piece..no seams..radius corners in each location. As others have done, the header tank feeds the main tank.  

 I hear you about the time to build. Been working on building the house for 3 years getting on 4 now. Solo..not one assistant. Every part of the build. At least now I won't have to drive to and from Tulsa to a job. Now my progress is moving faster. I was being reasonable when I estimated 2024. I have a 30X40 hangar on my property and a two car garage. Both airplanes fit in the hangar.    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 2:24 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Fuel tank options.
 
So would you attach it to the airframe with the same ridgidity of the original tanks?  Would it handle g loads that the originals handle?  Phil Langford survived a crash in California and the fuselage handled it well. Not sure if a knock off would do the same unless it is ops checked to limits.  If you do something different make sure it equals or betters the original.
But that is going to make your aircraft finish point a lot of years down the road.  And I would love to see the “Frankenbird” fly intor Field Of Dreams before my Certificate is taken.
Geepers!  Am I beginning to sound like Jimmeh the “Great Poobah”?!  I take it as a compliment!
Bruce


On Mar 24, 2021, at 12:04 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 It (the internal tank foams).. would displace some capacity, yes. 

My particular solution, Bruce, is to purchase a blown seamless poly tank, and then plans build around it. I am looking at a tank right now that is holding 250 gallons of water in my cottage. Part of my rain catchment system. It is common material. 

 My engine compression is safe using 93 octane (boat gas).. NO ethanol!!  100LL is of course also no problem for detonation protection, but I must use lead extraction additive. Neither fuel will attack the poly tank(s)... both tanks can take pressurization, within reason of course. They are tuff!! I have purposely inflated and deflated sealed tanks just to see where they fail at. No dice..
they stayed fluid tight. 

Vern     


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 8:01 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 
The airframe needs to be as light as possible.  The foam filled fuel tanks would take away a bit of fuel volume wouldn’t it?
Bruce


On Mar 23, 2021, at 6:18 PM, Anthony P <solarant@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

With all the talk about fuel dumping, tank integrity, and motorsports, I'm very surprised I have not seen or heard of fuel cells or fuel bladders being used in homebuilt composite aircraft.
All of my race cars have used fuel cells with flexible and puncture resistant bladders.  Both of the companies I buy from started out in the aircraft industry and I think still serve that industry.

Here's a link to a common supplier of high end (expensive) onboard fire suppression systems used in amateur and professional car racing.
https://www.lifeline-fire.co.uk/







Re: Resin volume placed on foam

Eugen Pilarski
 

Dear Q-community, 

wow, thank you very much for your notes, hints and the very valuable information. For anyone that build in his own walls is very important to get a different point of view! Thank Q-Groupe.

So the bag is open and the bulkhead FS89 part looks in my point of view, very good. Please find below some picture about the part, at the end of that email.  The ratio from resin to glas is around 50%, so the proposal from Rob looks good for that part, based on the fact that it goes 46g to the part and 35g in the Compoflex (Ply) and somewhere. The vacuum level was hold all time long around 850 hpa ( around 1500 kg/m2 or 3306 lbs/m2) served my pump station. Please find below the source I catch up all information about the pump station  https://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm

The numbers FS89 top and down:

determine description weight   weight %
weighted Foam  82 g 0,185 lbs 48%
weighted Glass 44 g 0,099 lbs 20%
weighted Foam+1st layer + Resin 172 g 0,387 lbs 100% ratio Resin to glass
calculated Resin 46 g 0,104 lbs 27% 51%
 
I think that I will go further with vacuum bags so far not any big issue come up during that process. Especially for the fuselage and the other parts that will work with vacuum bag so far. It is a pity that there is no more detailed information on the individual component weights from other Q1 projects from the past

Well, the point of the whole weight issue is I need to go with the Q1 lower than 120kg (264,5lbs) all In, because the German ultralight rules don not allowed more. And for sure, I will get my ass in better condition if the bird will start at first time, not yet, but in due corse :-) 

Of course, the finishing is a very important step like Sam show up in his video at youtube (Micro - sand - micro  - sand - done). 

Best regards from Germany 

Eugen 

Am 24.03.2021 um 18:53 schrieb Robert Cringely <bob@...>:

Ideally you want 50 percent glass and 50 percent resin by weight, which is what you generally get with pre-preg. But, as another poster noted, there can be a dry lay-up problem if you push too hard in that direction, hence that original guidance about aiming for 60 percent resin, which is pretty okay and better than most. But there's another problem to be considered with Rutan construction, which is whatever weight you save in the lay-up you are likely to lose in the finishing. It amazes me to see builders who fight for that last ounce of resin then slather Bondo on the final surface for finishing. Yes, most of the Bondo is sanded off and yes, you can use micro instead of Bondo, but it still makes good sense to take a holistic approach to composite work. Your vacuum bagging sounds great, but keep the finish line in mind.

I'll always remember the wisdom of Dragonfly designer Bob Walters, writing in Sport Aviation. Bob maintained that humans can tolerate only so much sanding and paint prep, so if you spend too much time on the prep you can't help yourself but rush to finish the painting. He thought the psychological sanding limit was 250 hours. So if you obsess too much with the early stuff, you'll rush too much at the end and the plane will show it. Wise man.

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 10:18 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Yes.. and with caul sheet and/or tooling surfaces this is especially true. Saves lots of TIME..but not a lot in weight. 

 Of course, in a production setting time reduction is a major part of the path to profits. Big difference in mission of the projects. Our project out in our shop is not demanding a profit margin for the stockholders.  I personally have no problems with anyone using all the up to date techniques if one wishes to do so..if the structure is good..no problem. God knows we have (and STILL have) plenty of failures in mass production in parts...even with the most fancy dancy methods and toys money can buy!.   Not me.. I'm not looking to save 10 pounds over all and spend oodles of time and greenbacks to get them. I had to do that as a job over 30 years..chasing time and methods all over the place for a few pounds or minutes saving.  

 I'm interested in adding safety and access using the existing methods and structure as much as possible.

Vern       


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:56 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
From memory the Cozy girls said “you won’t save any weight with their vacuum bagging.  It just made smooth uniform pieces that didn’t need much filler”.  That’s from about 10+ years ago so I can’t “etch that in stone”.
Bruce 


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:01 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

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